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Last A340 600 Delivered By Airbus To Iberia  
User currently offlinecorernagh14 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2009, 79 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 32429 times:

The last A340 600 (MSN1122) on order with Airbus has now been delivered to Iberia yesterday. Does anyone have any photos of the aircraft in Toulouse or details of ferry flight to MAD? When it will enter scheduled service?

113 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3824 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 32370 times:

Let's all say goodbye to the slogan "4 engines 4 longhaul".

We'll miss you, and the plane that inspired it.   



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineebj1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 32269 times:

I've always thought highly of the A346. Elegance, performance and economy achieved. Yes, the 777 does better, but the folks at Airbus need not apologyze for the A346. Wonderful airplane!


Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2902 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 32090 times:

There are only a few planes that I get excited to see when I'm at work at JFK...and the A346 is absolutely one of them! Just a stunning looking aircraft (IMHO). I love seeing the VS or IB or LH A346 taxi by my hangar...even better when I can watch it come in for a landing on 13L. I really hope to someday catch a flight on one. How many A346 airframes were delivered? How many are flying currently?

~H81



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4358 posts, RR: 35
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 32005 times:

After the 2nd Kuwait Government A-340-500 is delivered, that's probably it for the A-340 (all subtypes).
But theoretically it ain't over til it's over; if say Lufthansa want to order another 10 or even a single example by a Sheikh and as long as the A-330 production line is open, Airbus will build them. Did Airbus confirm they would not build any A-340s anymore after the Kuwait 500 ?



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1404 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 31870 times:

Quoting ebj1248650 (Reply 2):
I've always thought highly of the A346. Elegance, performance and economy achieved. Yes, the 777 does better, but the folks at Airbus need not apologyze for the A346. Wonderful airplane!

   fully agree.

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 3):
How many A346 airframes were delivered? How many are flying currently?

With the last IB bird delivered now it is:

ordered 97
delivered 97
in operation 96

Private 2
China Eastern 5
EY 7
Hainan 3
IB 17
LH 24
QR 4
SA 9
TG 6
VS 19

The EY bird accident in TLS was the one write-off.

To make the list complete, the numbers for the A340-500 are (as of June 30th):

ordered 37
delivered 31
in operation 31

Private 4
Arik Air 2
EK 10
EY 4
SQ 5
JJ 2
TG 4

2 IT plus 4 private on order.

All data from Airbus spreadsheet.



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12592 posts, RR: 34
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 31773 times:

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 4):
if say Lufthansa want to order another 10 or even a single example by a Sheikh and as long as the A-330 production line is open, Airbus will build them. Did Airbus confirm they would not build any A-340s anymore after the Kuwait 500 ?

The production line is theoretically open as long as the A330 production line is open (and that'll be open for a long time to come!). I can't see Airbus saying formally that the A340 has ceased production, firstly for the obvious reason that they don't want to hand a propaganda victory to Boeing, but also because it has also said that there is (according to them) a market for around 10-15 very large corporate transports for M/E customers.

It is not quite clear if, for now EC-LFS, LN 1122, is the last A340. 380 have been built, consisting of 246 342/343s, 37 A345s and 97 A340-600s. Interestingly, the Airbus site says that although 37 A345s have been ordered, only 31 have been delivered, so there may be more in the pipeline from operators who/which may wish to remain anonymous.


User currently offlineTobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 731 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 31673 times:

Quoting AustrianZRH (Reply 5):
The EY bird accident in TLS was the one write-off.

I think EC-JOH (MSN 731) was also written off after an runway-overshot in Ecuador.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Stefano Rota



Otherwise, thanks for this list.

Quoting AustrianZRH (Reply 5):
Private 2
China Eastern 5
EY 7
Hainan 3
IB 17
LH 24
QR 4
SA 9
TG 6
VS 19

Quite amazing to have all A340-600s still flying around, execpt two VS birds which are currently stored, if I'm not mistaken. Where did you include F-WWCA (MSN 360), which stayed with Airbus (here on an early display flight):


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Stephan Tophoven



I quite like the A346. I came only to experience LH's ones, and I noticed that your feet won't get cold in contrast to sitting in an B744.

--Tobias--

edit: included images

[Edited 2010-07-17 09:07:23]


PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2902 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 31495 times:

Quoting AustrianZRH (Reply 5):

Awesome, thanks for the info. That was actually a higher number than I was expecting!



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlinec5load From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 31408 times:

Ok, maybe I am missing something obvious here, but why was the A346 a failure, if I should call it that? Only reason I call it that is b/c there wasn't even 100 delivered.


"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4700 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 31354 times:

I can confirm that components for new A345/6s are still being delivered to Airbus. So I expect at least a couple more A345s to roll out of the factory.


Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1404 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 31325 times:

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 7):
I think EC-JOH (MSN 731) was also written off after an runway-overshot in Ecuador.

How could I forget? So it seems that they cancelled the EY order for the destroyed bird, as there is only one less operated than ordered and delivered...



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
User currently offlineavi8r2012 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 29061 times:

I had the chance to travel on a Lufthansa A340-600 from Munich to Chicago, and also a IB A340-300 from Boston to Madrid. Both of those aircraft were awesome, I truly enjoyed the A340-600.. its a sad day!

User currently offlineFlyNWA727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 28900 times:

Quoting c5load (Reply 9):
Ok, maybe I am missing something obvious here, but why was the A346 a failure, if I should call it that? Only reason I call it that is b/c there wasn't even 100 delivered.

Yeah, you're missing something fairly obvious ... it's called better competition. Basically, the Boeing 777-300ER can do everything a A346 can do, but much better and more efficiently. Twins generally have a lower operating cost than a quad. Even though the 77W's GE90-115Bs consume more fuel than the A346s RR Trents, the 77W only uses two engines whilst the Airbus uses four. When you do the math (thrust, total fuel consumption, etc.) the 77Ws twin engined design offers better economics. And the 77W has better performance. I know the A346 was dogged with issues like lackluster takeoff performance/climb rate and the 77W has a slightly higher cruise speed. I read a while back that if a 77W and A346 took off at the same time, from the same airport, headed to the same destination ... the 77W would—on average—arrive to the destination about 30 minutes before the A346. And the 77W is wider and has a much higher seating capacity plus more cabin configuration flexibility (nine or ten abreast economy vs. eight abreast for the A346), not to mention the 77W has a greater range than most of the A346s produced, and if I'm not mistaken, the 77W also has much better cargo capabilities.

[Edited 2010-07-17 12:05:56]


First flight aboard a Northwest B727-251ADV out of BWI Thurgood Marshall Airport, my hometown airport.
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8637 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 28852 times:

Quoting AustrianZRH (Reply 11):
How could I forget? So it seems that they cancelled the EY order for the destroyed bird, as there is only one less operated than ordered and delivered...

I don't think the EY bird was ever delivered so they probably didn't count it as "built" either.


User currently offlineLH7879 From Germany, joined Dec 2009, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 28807 times:

heyh there,

I just read the A340 article on Wikipedia an noticed (what I found slightly funny) that 3 of 5 write-offs were caused by accidents on the ground while not in active service. Not a very good reference for their owners.

The other two write-offs also happened on the ground, but in service during landing. This definitely attests that the A340 can FLY pretty good. Just, if I were a A340 operator, I would keep an eye on them while on the ground, especially when parked somewhere empty.   


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 28727 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 1):
Let's all say goodbye to the slogan "4 engines 4 longhaul".


Isn't a little premature to say "goodbye" to an aircraft that was just delivered and will undoubtedly be in-service for about 20 more years?


User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25978 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 28494 times:

Quoting FlyNWA727 (Reply 13):
And the 77W is wider and has a much higher seating capacity plus more cabin configuration flexibility (nine or ten abreast economy vs. eight abreast for the A346),

But most passengers prefer the 2-4-2 Airbus configuration to the 9-abreast (or cramped 10-abreast) 777 layouts. In my experience the A340 is also among the quietest widebodies while the 777 is probably the loudest..

[Edited 2010-07-17 12:19:43]

User currently offlinedavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7437 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 28391 times:
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Quoting FlyNWA727 (Reply 13):
, the Boeing 777-300ER can do everything a A346 can do

Putting it crudely, without the A346, the 773 would not have been brought forward as quickly to the market. So indirectly Airbus cut short it's own A340 sales by improving it to an extent that Boeing came up with an improved 777 version that is outstanding; that's not to say that the A346 isn't as good.

Quoting FlyNWA727 (Reply 13):
I know the A346 was dogged with issues like lackluster takeoff performance/climb rate

Isn't that more of an A343 issue?


User currently offlineCharlieNoble From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 28259 times:

Quoting FlyNWA727 (Reply 13):
Yeah, you're missing something fairly obvious ... it's called better competition. Basically, the Boeing 777-300ER can do everything a A346 can do, but much better and more efficiently. Twins generally have a lower operating cost than a quad. Even though the 77W's GE90-115Bs consume more fuel than the A346s RR Trents, the 77W only uses two engines whilst the Airbus uses four. When you do the math (thrust, total fuel consumption, etc.) the 77Ws twin engined design offers better economics. And the 77W has better performance. I know the A346 was dogged with issues like lackluster takeoff performance/climb rate and the 77W has a slightly higher cruise speed. I read a while back that if a 77W and A346 took off at the same time, from the same airport, headed to the same destination ... the 77W would—on average—arrive to the destination about 30 minutes before the A346. And the 77W is wider and has a much higher seating capacity plus more cabin configuration flexibility (nine or ten abreast economy vs. eight abreast for the A346), not to mention the 77W has a greater range than most of the A346s produced, and if I'm not mistaken, the 77W also has much better cargo capabilities.

I think one exception to this might be departing from hot/high airports due to "engine out" performance difference between 4-engine vs. 2-engine. A niche application where the A346 fits the bill very well. Somebody smarter than me feel free to shoot that down if I'm wrong.

When you look at it objectively both of these airplanes are awesome...wish I had a reason to fly on one or both of them. The only transatlantic/transpacific flying I've done was on 747-100s and 747-200s a million years ago. Center seat in the 5-across LOL


User currently offlineGeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 999 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 28229 times:

First off, I am a big fan of the 340, and it is my preferred long distance/trans Atlantic machine. They are beautiful to look at, extremely comfortable to fly in, and frankly, the economics of owning or flying them aren't my problem. That said, looks like for a poorly selling aircraft, more Boeing 747-8i's have been ordered than A340-500s, and its pretty close in numbers to the -600 sales. Not too shabby for an aircraft that hasn't gotten a lot of orders. The 747 was, is, and probably will remain the Queen of the Skies for a very long time to come. (The 340 is merely a pretender to the throne.) Now, is anyone out there willing to buy a few more of them to keep me happy, please?


"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlineCoachClass From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 451 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 28191 times:

Quoting avi8r2012 (Reply 12):
I had the chance to travel on a Lufthansa A340-600 from Munich to Chicago, and also a IB A340-300 from Boston to Madrid. Both of those aircraft were awesome, I truly enjoyed the A340-600.. its a sad day!


I love the A340-600 in side and out, except the pleasure of it quickly diminishes when the air carrier puts too many seats in it and provides no real area to stand for a while. The r/t with LH last year (CLT-MUC) I had was a nightmare, as I had an interior seat with seats in front of me reclined. Getting to and from the aisle was almost impossible. Every freaking inch of the interior is used.

Having just completed another r/t with LH on its B747 out of MIA, I can say honestly that except for the AVOD on the A340-600 that I saw no advance in comfort between the 747 and the A346 as far as LH goes.

I found the A340-300 that I traveled MIA-DUS seemed to have a slight increase in pitch.


User currently offlineShany From Germany, joined Jul 2008, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 27870 times:

Quoting CoachClass (Reply 21):
Having just completed another r/t with LH on its B747 out of MIA, I can say honestly that except for the AVOD on the A340-600 that I saw no advance in comfort between the 747 and the A346 as far as LH goes.

Well, I traveled both, and I love the LH A340-642 with its toilets downstairs where you can spend a little while. The LH 747-430M I rode on was way less comfortable.

Best regards
Shany



ETOPS - Engines Turn Or People Swim
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26124 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 27531 times:

A big thing that killed A340 sales was Airbus themselves when is started to push A330 sales hard and conceded the A340 can beat by the A330 on majority of customer missions.

I well recall earlier dual-market track where Airbus used to pitch A330s for under 8-hours missions and A340 on over 8-hours missions until the early 2000s, when it basically shifted to the A330 can do nearly everything the A340 can at lower cost.

In the mean time the A340-500/600 was simply a half-hearted attempt to win time to figure what to do and hold Boeing off with its extremely successful 777 which eventually saw the A350 concept.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4934 posts, RR: 40
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 26977 times:
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Quoting avi8r2012 (Reply 12):
I had the chance to travel on a Lufthansa A340-600 from Munich to Chicago, and also a IB A340-300 from Boston to Madrid. Both of those aircraft were awesome, I truly enjoyed the A340-600.. its a sad day!


I have flown the A340-300 many times and the A340-600 on 4 occasions. The A340-600 is truly a fantastic airplane which I like very, very much in multiple aspects.

But the overall better economics of the B77W really pushed it off the market as it is. But maybe the concept (a very long stretched fuselage) was a bit of a weaker point of the design. It caused the plane to be quite heavy which costs points on performance.

But I like it and it will be a joy every time I will fly on one. I also enjoy the B777, but the quietness is something I really like on the big Airbus. But nothing tops the A380 in this (or any other) department.  .

[Edited 2010-07-17 13:45:06]

25 ukoverlander : I think you'll find that slogan originates from Virgin Atlantic relative to their use of both the 747 and the A340 type........it did not originate r
26 formigueta : The EC-LFS was delivered on July 16th The aircraft was written off after few discussions with insurers and finally was written off and scrapped on si
27 A342 : At high altitudes, the A340 has better takeoff performance than the 777. Yes, that even applies to the A342 and A343. I'd be curious to know where yo
28 LAXintl : Emirates compared the A345 and 777-200LR to LAX. The A345 is 18min slower and burns 17.1t more fuel on average. A345 TRIP KLAX 138615 1547 CONT 20MIN
29 david_itl : so it's not about 30 minutes then, even on a long sector. So not quite as slow as some would like to imagine.
30 Post contains images B777LRF : I think there's general agreement the Airbus A340 offers the superior product as far as comfort goes compared to the 777. But, as we all know, while a
31 ScottB : It's not entirely true that production for the A345/6 (or A343, for that matter) will continue for as long as A330's are being produced. Lack of orde
32 7673mech : I am not sure where he read that - it actually was one reason that Singapore Airlines got rid of the 340's. (Not the -500's in service now). Singapor
33 BooDog : I'm more of a grumpy young sod but my feelings are exactly the same.
34 Post contains images jalap : I'm sure the checklists now include checking if the planes brakes are on, if there is aircraft is free of fire and if the area is free of armed rebel
35 CFBFrame : Excellent reason to build more. Keeping those feet warm is a key reason to build a fleet strategy around. Another reason for building more!!! A quite
36 klkla : I would agree with that statement only in the coach cabin where 2-4-2 is an advantage over 3-3-3 (or god forbid 3-4-3). But in Business Class or Fris
37 connies4ever : The poor climb performance I believe relates pretty much solely to the A342/343 models. The wing is optimised for cruise and the engines were sized t
38 connies4ever : Quoting FlyNWA727 (Reply 13): I know the A346 was dogged with issues like lackluster takeoff performance/climb rate and the 77W has a slightly higher
39 B777LRF : I'd respectfully have to disagree on that one. On a 777 you stand a chance to be given a middle seat. Apart from EK, nobody does that on the A330/340
40 OlympicATH : You've got to be kidding, or maybe you don't really mind the noise. I've flown on A340s (342, 343, 345) and 777s (772, 773, 77W) many times and there
41 Lufthansa411 : Absolutely correct. If memory serves, it is the reason that SA went with the A340 instead of the 777; the A340 allowed for much better performance ou
42 nema : Although clear to see the triple seven had so many advantages, so was it the price difference that appealed to customers to still buy the A340 series
43 FlyNWA727 : First, I'd like to thank all the folks who chimed in and corrected me on my mistakenly-made comment in regards to the A346s climb rate. @Nema ... The
44 FlyingAlex : I won't call this a scientific survey, but my experience is that people who have *actually flown* on both types with LH in Economy invariably prefer
45 Post contains images ZRH : Good by. I really love the four-holers. It is absolutely sad that in the near future we only will see these boring 787/350 and only a few 380 and almo
46 B738FlyUIA : Didn't Swissar (SR) in the good old times have some A346 on orders before they grounded? If I remember right there where 5 or 6 orders placed.
47 Post contains images FlyingAlex : Don't worry, the A340s will be around for at least another 20 years, especially the recently-built ones LX flies out of your home airport. Actually,
48 Aesma : About 4 engines 4 long haul, the A380 is there to perpetuate it (and the 748, maybe). I quite like the 346, never flew on one (or any A330/340 for tha
49 Post contains links and images jalap : The A300/310 is the only line Airbus has ever had to close so we don't have any other to look at to understand your statement. Production line was op
50 oneworld77 : Totally agree, travelled earlier this year on my dime, to South America and actively avoided the 777 and 747 (easy with IB providing the best connex
51 Aesma : About the idea that the plane is a failure, did it earn money ? If not, then yeah I guess it is. If it did, then it's a success. Surely not as good a
52 alwaysontherun : Well said........the A330 and A340 go hand in hand in many ways. I don´t think anybody really debated the superiority of the 777--> people just s
53 OldAeroGuy : And the A345/6 wings aren't used on any version of the A330 and require unique tooling. Unless the A345/6 wing tooling is retained, continued A330 pr
54 PlaneWasted : Up front, where the nicer seats are, the 777 is really quiet. In the back it's horrible.
55 AirbusA6 : I can't imagine RR, with their healthy backlog on the T700 and T1000, and gearing up for the T-XWB would be that keen to build some more T500s either,
56 Pyrex : Clearly you have never flown any of them. From a passenger standpoint there is no contest whatsoever, the A340 wins hands down. Not only because of t
57 Swallow : I have fond memories of the 346, having crossed the pond several times with her. She is certainly quiet especially if you sit in front of the engines.
58 Viscount724 : That's not my experience. I have found it quite loud (in comparison with Airbus widebodies, especially the A340 but also the A330) when seated direct
59 Post contains images CUSSkiosks : Just on a whim I did the simple math, to determine the PDPPE (Passengers Disturbed Per Passenger Exodus -- including both exit and return) and the PN
60 Post contains images EPA001 : That demonstration was very impressive indeed. Such a big plane performing such maneuvers was an awesome sight to see. Luckily I was there to watch i
61 Kelual : We might be surprised with some new orders from Iberia for the A340-600. Wait and see
62 XaraB : Considering RR will be providing spare engines for the existing frames their entire lifetime, a few extra newbuilds will not be a major inconvenience
63 r2rho : That's correct. Although the A330 / A343 have a large degree of commonality, being roughly 2 and 4-engined versions of the same a/c, the A3456 has mu
64 airbazar : Yes they are slightly different but don't they still share the same final assembly facility? As long as the suppliers are willing to supply the parts
65 328JET : If the price is alright, i could see Lufthansa taking another 6-10 of the -600. Also some additional A333s could find the way into Lufthansa´s fleet.
66 SEPilot : With the 787 and A350 coming soon, and 77W's becoming more common and more available, I cannot see anyone buying a new A340 again. Those fleets that u
67 airbazar : And where exactly would they find those used A346's? The point is, the A346 is so unique in its capabilities that anyone who has them really needs th
68 SEPilot : There are others out there that were not bought for their hot-and-high performance, and other operators who bought them before the 77W was available
69 Post contains images scbriml : I love the A346! Indeed, the destroyed Etihad plane was listed by Airbus as a "non commercial cancellation" in July 2009.
70 ScottB : Hyperbole, anyone? It's still possible to make a profit with DC-8's, assuming they're being placed into the correct role (largely cargo). There are p
71 328JET : @ ScottB I do not think that Lufthansa has concerns about their value as they will keep the A346s another 15-20 years. In the moment the planned A350-
72 SEPilot : The reason the A346 is a good hot and high performer is simple; it has 4 engines instead of 2, meaning that it has better engine-out takeoff performa
73 FlyingAlex : One thing to keep in mind is that LH bought most (if not all) of their A346s outright, and has a tendency to use aircraft long after they're fully wr
74 airbazar : That's fair but LH doesn't need them for the hot and high performance. I can't think of many if any airport that is considered hot and high, that LH
75 FlyingAlex : DEN is the only current one I can think of. And they'll start FRA-BOG in November, which definitely also meets that definition.
76 alwaysontherun : Are there still 1 or 2 in storage at Toulouse for IB? I hope IB will reach in their pocket 1 more time for a few more A346. I see "her" take off from
77 474218 : [quote=XaraB,reply=62]Considering RR will be providing spare engines for the existing frames their entire lifetime....quote] Maybe not, RR stopped sup
78 Post contains links and images Aesma : What I was talking about : View Large View MediumPhoto © Stephan Tophoven
79 SEPilot : I realize that; I included LH because they are committed to the type (as having ordered new ones well after the 77W had proved itself) and hence woul
80 PM : Well, it flew before being broken in half so I'd respectfully suggest it was 'built'. You might want to check your facts before you post. Sales as of
81 cv990Coronado : As a passenger give me the 340 over the noisy 777 anyday and when one looks down at lots of cold blue ocean I sleep much better after seeing two pods
82 airbazar : Yeah, SAA doesn't really have a choice since their home airport is a hot and high airport. What surprises me a lot is that none of the MEX based carr
83 AAExecPlat : I have flown virtually every widebody type imaginable: 747-200 747-400 777-200 777-200ER 767-400 767-300 767-200 757-300 757-200 A330-200 A340-200 A34
84 FlyNWA727 : I'm assuming you're referring to the Lauda Air 767 accident ... over 19 years ago... That accident was blamed on ice crystals from the fuel system cl
85 airbazar : Thanks to ETOPS because there have been plenty of twin emergency landings due to engine trouble.
86 ScottB : I sleep better knowing that the aircraft I'm on has adequate cargo fire suppression to reach a diversion point; this is not required of three- or fou
87 FlyNWA727 : I agree with this. This was an informed statement. I made a comment earlier which was deleted for petty reasons. It seems like anyone who has a valid
88 SEPilot : Quite true; there has NEVER been an airliner brought down by dual unrelated engine failures. I did a check a while ago of engine-related crashes of j
89 airbazar : This analysis is flawd because as I pointed out above, we'll never know how many crashes have been prevented by ETOPS rules which forces twins to fly
90 trex8 : but you have to normalize by mileage/hours/sectors flown etc and the issue is not whether a eg narrowbody twin flying 2 hour sectors 5 x /day having
91 Aesma : He's only talking about one uncontained failure. The uncontained part leading to a crash, like when the engine goes with the wing or the stabilizer of
92 ScottB : It's not flawed at all. ETOPS maintenance practices are specifically designed to minimize the possibility of both engines failing. You should familia
93 LVZXV : The EY bird was completed prior to its accident and the prototype also counts, so all in all 99 A340-600s were built of which 95 remain in operation
94 SEPilot : But there is nothing to indicate that every one of these could have safely continued flying as long as the fuel held out. The big thing about ETOPS r
95 airbazar : Without ETOPS I have no doubt that many airlines would take greater risks in favor of profits and therefore result in more accidents. That's why.
96 Post contains images quiet1 : Is LH still getting subsidy payments from Airbus? ISTR that Airbus agreed to pay LH (sizeable?) subsidies to compensate for sub-par (sub-Boeing?) per
97 SEPilot : Airlines have learned through experience that there is nothing that hurts profits more than a crash. This is partly in thanks to our litigious societ
98 corernagh14 : From the information above on the A340 500 aircraft does anyone know when Airbus are due to deliver the two ex IT birds to Sonair? On what routes wil
99 PM : Can you provide evidence to substantiate this claim?
100 CoachClass : This was the attitude that led to Wall Street's near collapse in 2008 and in 1929. Do you have your money in an uninsured FDIC bank? Remember the S&a
101 quiet1 : I'm hopeless at forum and Google searches, but I clearly recall reading -- here on a*net -- that LH was compensated in some form to retain an order f
102 Post contains links and images quiet1 : Okay, okay, I *think* I found what I thought I was remembering about LH getting subsidies from Airbus. My sincere apologies for mangling it so much --
103 TrijetsRMissed : With all due respect, the A340 did not factor in the MD-11's demise. Yes, the Singapore order hurt, but it was really the 772ER that sealed the fate
104 A342 : It certainly did. It burns about 15% less fuel than the MD11.
105 SEPilot : Not exactly; the Wall St. collapse of 2008 was in fact a direct result of government meddling, forcing banks to lend to people who couldn't pay back
106 Post contains images PM : Thanks. All clear now.
107 CoachClass : Fannie and Freddie were problematic, yes. They didn't cause the S&L crisis in the 1980's and '90's when the S&L's were deregulated. And they
108 Pyrex : Oh, here we go again... (not that it has anything to do with this thread). Repealling Glass-Steagall had absolutely nothing to do with the current fi
109 Post contains images EKEY77W : Quitting off comparisons and tech knowledge about a340-600,a340-300,77W an many other things this is what u looking for.this airplane was delivered on
110 BEG2IAH : I flew an LH A346. I was blown away how powerful and agile this big aircraft is. Ten days later I flew on an A343 and what a hog it was. Seeing an A34
111 LVZXV : I believe all IB's A346s are -642 basics, not -642Xs. Aloha, /ZXV
112 Post contains images YULWinterSkies : Would it have been availabale earlier on, the story could have been different. The A346 came out while B already had plans for the 77W, which undoubt
113 SEPilot : True; but the parallel between financial dealings and airline flying is strained, to say the least. An airliner is under the control of its pilots, a
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