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Farnborough Order #1 : EK 20 X 777-300ER (?)  
User currently offlinekeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16210 times:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE66G0AJ20100717

One of the low risk proven platforms you order when you need capasity soon, I guess.



CSeries is said to get an order tomorrow already.

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4423 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16201 times:

WoW! Congrats to both Emirates and Boeing. Is there any stopping this ordering machine? Just amazing.

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16169 times:

Quoting keesje (Thread starter):
One of the low risk proven platforms you order when you need capasity soon, I guess.

Great..can't we bloody have some other customer ordering B77W's and A380's?   

Quoting keesje (Thread starter):

CSeries is said to get an order tomorrow already.

Speaking of C-Series, here is something of interest:

"“These are numbers on our load factors, on our network and in our configurations," Senior VP-Corporate Fleet Nico Buchholz told attendees at ATW’s Eco-Aviation Conference in Washington last month. He said the 747-8 will have a fuel burn of 3.51 liters per passenger per 100 km. while the A380 with Rolls-Royce engines, which LH also has ordered, will achieve a burn of 3.4 litersand the CSeries powered by the Pratt & Whitney PW1000G will burn just 3.1 liters on the same basis."

*-ATWOnline.com 07-15-2010

C-Series burning less fuel than both the A380 and B748I in LH's configuration?  Wow!
Quoting TK787 (Reply 1):
WoW! Congrats to both Emirates and Boeing. Is there any stopping this ordering machine? Just amazing.

I agree TK787 but it would be nice to get some other carrier ordering all these birds....

[Edited 2010-07-17 15:43:02]


"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5241 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16121 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):
Great..can't we bloody have some other customer ordering B77W's and A380's?

Agreed. I would love to see one of the US carriers or a European carrier ordering the 77W. I suppose one can hope.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8552 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16073 times:
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so the EK juggernaut rolls on ... whatever you may think of them ( and to be honest from my 3 sectors in J on them earlier this year I was not overly impressed ) there is no denying that what they have acheived in just under 25 years since they commenced operations with a single leased aircraft is nothing short of amazing .


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3396 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16020 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):
C-Series burning less fuel than both the A380 and B748I in LH's configuration?

likely going to have a Y only configuration. Its amazing how low the fuel burn per seat can go when you don't "waste" space on rich people... Just think 850 seat A380 Vs 550 seat A380.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 15964 times:

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 5):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):
C-Series burning less fuel than both the A380 and B748I in LH's configuration?

likely going to have a Y only configuration. Its amazing how low the fuel burn per seat can go when you don't "waste" space on rich people... Just think 850 seat A380 Vs 550 seat A380.

True, but its interesting to see nonetheless....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30898 posts, RR: 87
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 15818 times:
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Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):
Great..can't we bloody have some other customer ordering B77W's and A380's?

Well if they ordered 20, they are not the UFO order for 18 on 30-April. Could that be QR exercising options, perhaps? They have 16 on order now (with 11 delivered).

That would be 50 77W orders for the year, so far, counting the 12 for SV and 18 UFO (and yes, I know JL canceled their remaining seven 77Ws). Looks like the girl still has some life in her.   


User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2744 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 15544 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
Well if they ordered 20, they are not the UFO order for 18 on 30-April.
Stitch,

That was my first thought when I read the news article, too. If the report is accurate for 20, then it is a new order. OTOH, it could also be a couple of other scenarios:

A) EK is also responsible for one of the two x2 -200LR UFO's ordered in May

B) The article is simply wrong, and the order is for 18, not 20.


Regards,

Hamlet69   



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2510 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 15044 times:

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 8):
OTOH, it could also be a couple of other scenarios:

A) EK is also responsible for one of the two x2 -200LR UFO's ordered in May

B) The article is simply wrong, and the order is for 18, not 20.

I'll guess scenario A, but it would add a little more intrigue if it was an altogether new order (which I hope it is).


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 14623 times:

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 8):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
Well if they ordered 20, they are not the UFO order for 18 on 30-April.
Stitch,

That was my first thought when I read the news article, too. If the report is accurate for 20, then it is a new order. OTOH, it could also be a couple of other scenarios:

A) EK is also responsible for one of the two x2 -200LR UFO's ordered in May

B) The article is simply wrong, and the order is for 18, not 20.

Seems to me, unless I'm not mistaken, EK is ordering the 18 then?

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
That would be 50 77W orders for the year, so far, counting the 12 for SV and 18 UFO (and yes, I know JL canceled their remaining seven 77Ws). Looks like the girl still has some life in her.

50 would be awesome if true, but truth be told, I expect to see orders starting to tail off once better/more numbers for the -1000 start becoming available...

Lets see what happens...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4144 posts, RR: 90
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 13669 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

The Seattle Times is carrying an interesting report about a possible order from Emirates.

Boeing will make headlines at the Farnborough Air Show with a giant order of 777s from Dubai flag carrier Emirates, according to a person familiar with the details.

That's huge news for Emirates. But for Boeing, it won't truly be new revenue.


Similar to the deal Airbus got at the Berlin Air Show last month, this order is a replacement for a 2007 order from airplane leasing company DAE Capital

Now similarly for Boeing. In 2007, DAE Capital had ordered 70 single-aisle 737s,15 widebody 787 Dreamliners, ten 777s and five 747-8 freighters.

Emirates wants only 777s. The math suggests that to keep Boeing more or less whole, the carrier that aims to rule the airline world will take more than 40 of them.


End fair use excerpt from source

The report states that the A380 order placed at Berlin was a transfer of DAE's Airbus order to Emirates and that a 777 order might be the same for Boeing. If that is the case are we to expect a cancellation of DAE's orders for 737s, 787s, 777s and 748Fs to appear on Boeing's O&D spreadsheet?



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10008 posts, RR: 96
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 13603 times:
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Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 11):
If that is the case are we to expect a cancellation of DAE's orders for 737s, 787s, 777s and 748Fs to appear on Boeing's O&D spreadsheet?

And a cancellation of DAE's A350's and A320's on the Airbus O+D spreadsheet?

Rgds


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13008 posts, RR: 100
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 13495 times:
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Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 11):
Similar to the deal Airbus got at the Berlin Air Show last month, this order is a replacement for a 2007 order from airplane leasing company DAE Capital

I suspect this is the case.

Any which way, keeping the planes going out the door is a good thing.

The big question is, what will ALC (Udvar-Hazy's new company) order? I suspect a number of 77Ws!

Quoting keesje (Thread starter):
CSeries is said to get an order tomorrow already.

You tease!

I suspect it will be QR. I hope to see others...


I hope for numerous orders 19th-25th. Let's see how it goes.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 13416 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 11):

The report states that the A380 order placed at Berlin was a transfer of DAE's Airbus order to Emirates and that a 777 order might be the same for Boeing. If that is the case are we to expect a cancellation of DAE's orders for 737s, 787s, 777s and 748Fs to appear on Boeing's O&D spreadsheet?

Thanks for the update friend..  ..

[Edited 2010-07-18 00:09:54]


"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineMileHighOffice From Australia, joined Jun 2010, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 13397 times:

I was hoping some of the UFO LRs were V Australia... although that announcement went quiet

Gotta give Emirates credit. I never thought they could make their ambitious fleet plans work, but they seem to grow and grow.

I find their J product on the 777 LR very nice. It is one of my favourite J products. The newer 777 hard product is good but don't like the fact you never know which configuration you'll get with the 77A/E and 773/W. 77L is always a sure thing... even though I've had the 77L on AMS route subbed for a 77W with the old seats before.


User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4144 posts, RR: 90
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 13341 times:
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Quoting astuteman (Reply 12):
And a cancellation of DAE's A350's and A320's on the Airbus O+D spreadsheet?

Yes, we should see that too. Of interest, if Boeing received UFO 777 orders from Emirates as a part of the swap with DAE why the delay in logging the cancellations?

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 13):
The big question is, what will ALC (Udvar-Hazy's new company) order? I suspect a number of 77Ws!

As ALC is a start up they will need diversity for their portfolio and should be looking to source more than just the one model.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 13):
I hope for numerous orders 19th-25th. Let's see how it goes.

Every trade day has orders to be announced and from Airbus we already have confirmation they expect to receive more orders at Farnborough than they have booked year to date. So we should expect more than 131 orders to be announced from them.

Regards

Paul



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineivo From Belgium, joined Sep 2000, 470 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 5 days ago) and read 11427 times:

Airbus is holding back the Aeroflot 11 A330-300 order till the show.

Ivo


User currently offlineoverloaduk From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2009, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 5 days ago) and read 11281 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
they are not the UFO order for 18 on 30-April

Ok someone has got to say it at least once they are for BA 


User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2134 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 9782 times:

Fwiw, the WSJ is predicting 30 EK 777 orders. (The forum code is broken and won't let me post a link).


The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently onlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6897 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 9572 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):
"“These are numbers on our load factors, on our network and in our configurations," Senior VP-Corporate Fleet Nico Buchholz told attendees at ATW’s Eco-Aviation Conference in Washington last month. He said the 747-8 will have a fuel burn of 3.51 liters per passenger per 100 km. while the A380 with Rolls-Royce engines, which LH also has ordered, will achieve a burn of 3.4 litersand the CSeries powered by the Pratt & Whitney PW1000G will burn just 3.1 liters on the same basis."

You cannot compare the fuel burn per seat of a long range plane with a short range plane. If you loaded an A380 with only enough fuel to fly the range of the C-series you would probably get much better figures. Don't forget it takes fuel to carry fuel. That said, it is still impressive performance for the C-series.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlinepnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2235 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9373 times:

There are two pending orders for the C Series and a third in the wings. It remains to be seen if one, two or three are announced this week. Of course until they are announced and signed they are just "likely" orders. One senior insurance executive involved in aviation who is a neighbour, told me this as he was waiting for his limo to the airport to fly to the show. He also told me that all the manufacturers are getting very nervous about these massive orders from mega carriers and their sustainability if the economy does another melt down.

User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4144 posts, RR: 90
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9262 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Quoting WestWing (Reply 19):
Fwiw, the WSJ is predicting 30 EK 777 orders

Here is a fair use excerpt,

By DANIEL MICHAELS

LONDON—Dubai's Emirates Airline will announce on Monday an order for more than 30 Boeing 777 jetliners, with a catalog value of more than $7 billion, according to a person familiar with the transaction.


www.wsj.com



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently onlinesirtoby From Germany, joined Nov 2007, 370 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8898 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 20):
If you loaded an A380 with only enough fuel to fly the range of the C-series you would probably get much better figures.

Not true- the optimum range for planes designed to fly about 8000nm like the A380 or the 787 is around 4000nm - below that the large empty weight hurts, above the fuel carried over the distance. And the A380 best number will still be above the CSeries number.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30898 posts, RR: 87
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8836 times:
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Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 11):
If that is the case are we to expect a cancellation of DAE's orders for 737s, 787s, 777s and 748Fs to appear on Boeing's O&D spreadsheet?

I would think EK would take the 747-8Fs. They did originally place the order for them, then sold them to DAE in a lease-back deal. So they appear to want them.

As for the 737s, flyDubai could take them, though their fleet is 737-800s and DAE has 70 737-700s on order, so it might not match.

If DAE's 787s were early delivery frames, perhaps they are going to QR, who recently moved up their initial deliveries?

DAE show 12 77Ws to be delivered, two of which are tasked to NZ. So that would leave 10 frames available for EK which means the rest would be new orders for the model.

They also have six 77Fs on order, so perhaps FX will take them?

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 11):
The report states that the A380 order placed at Berlin was a transfer of DAE's Airbus order to Emirates...

Was DAE ever an A380 customer? I can't find reference to them ever ordering the model.

Or because EK does not want any of the 30 A350s or 70 A320s, they instead ordered 32 A380s and, as astuteman alludes to in Reply 12, those 100 frames will be subsequently cancelled if new customers cannot be found?

[Edited 2010-07-18 08:25:34 by srbmod]

[Edited 2010-07-18 08:29:32]

25 Post contains images Hamlet69 : DAE has already converted 4 -700's to -800's, so I'd assume they at least have leases lined up for those 4. Possibly flyDubai. There is absolutely no
26 Thorben : Hasn't happened yet. However, media reports suggested that DAE did not want to cancel Boeing or Airbus orders completely, rather shift some of it to
27 Post contains links Lumberton : The author of what article? The one from the Seattle Times? Don't think this is his speculation. He refers to an article in Air Fincance Journal. So
28 planemaker : And it takes structure to carry fuel as well. As someone pointed out already, it is apples and oranges.
29 PanAm_DC10 : That is right they have not been an A380 customer. I was referencing the D.A.E. orders as mentioned by Airfinance Journal, I should have been more sp
30 Post contains links keesje : John L, Udvar, Jim A, GECAS, Bombardier are announcing announcements. http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...or-leasing-company-jet-orders.html Seems
31 lightsaber : Agreed. But they should rock the market with the variety of orders. I wish Monte Python was still active to do skits on aviation. 'Announcing the ann
32 Post contains links EI787 : As this order has now been confirmed, please continue the discussion here: Emirates Confirm Order For 30 B777-300ERs (by PanAm_DC10 Jul 19 2010 in Civ
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