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Emirates Growth Plan - India China Brazil  
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25687 posts, RR: 85
Posted (4 years 5 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10425 times:
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This article sets out some of Emirates' growth plans for India, but notes that China and Brazil are also seen as the future:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...s-in-India/articleshow/6183784.cms

""India is a very big market which has a lot of potential for the next five years. China, India and Brazil are the future market.

As per the bilateral agreement, there are six more additional points that they could operate from including Amristar, Mangalore, Trichy, Goa and Coimbatore

He said once the airline achieves this year's target, it will add flights to existing network and expand the routes."


India I understand, and China, but I'm curious to see what they do in Brazil.

mariner


aeternum nauta
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10388 times:

Quoting mariner (Thread starter):
As per the bilateral agreement, there are six more additional points that they could operate from including Amristar, Mangalore, Trichy, Goa and Coimbatore

He said once the airline achieves this year's target, it will add flights to existing network and expand the routes."

I thought they were capped out on total number of seats. It may be that the cap only applies to major cities, and these second tier cities do not come under the cap. I hope that is the case.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3736 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10334 times:

Emirates can now do anything in Brazil since last month. Brazil and the UAE have signed open skies with the exception of 5th freedom rights in North America and Europe.

User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3602 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10182 times:

I would imagine EK would focus on connecting GRU with NRT. There are also some Brasilian engineering companies doing big projects in the Middle East and North Africa.

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25687 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10131 times:
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There are several articles about Emirates growth in India - perhaps there's a p.r. push in connection with the new lounge at the new DEL airport terminal:

http://topnews.com.sg/content/23185-...e-terminal-3-indira-gandhi-airport

"Emirates Airlines, which introduced to India the double Decker Airbus A-380, will put in $2 million in creating an exclusive lounge at the recently inaugurated glamorous Terminal-3 of the Indira Gandhi International Airport in New Delhi."

But there's also a lot of talk of Emirates buying into an Indian airline - if the government relaxes the foreign investment laws:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1100717/jsp/business/story_12694020.jsp

": West Asian carrier Emirates wants to pick up a stake in an Indian carrier even as the government deliberates on the merits of relaxing the caps on foreign direct investment in airlines.

Indications are that the government may now be open to the aviation ministry’s proposal of allowing foreign airlines to pick up a 26 per cent stake in domestic carriers.

Several carriers, including Vijay Mallya’s Kingfisher, is in favour of the move; others such as Jet have opposed the entry of foreign players. Mallya’s Kingfisher is reported to have received offers from Virgin and British Airways."


Changes coming in Indian aviation?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4903 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10070 times:

GRU-DXB-NRT is about 1K miles over the great circle distance. I presume that there are no nonstops on that sector?

User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10021 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 4):
Several carriers, including Vijay Mallya’s Kingfisher, is in favour of the move; others such as Jet have opposed the entry of foreign players. Mallya’s Kingfisher is reported to have received offers from Virgin and British Airways."

British Airways makes more sense than Virgin given that Kingfisher is joining Oneworld. Kingfisher has lost a lot of money lately, and could use some equity infusion.

I hope EK takes a stake in AI with an advisory role in exchange for expanded rights to the Indian market.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17820 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9980 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 6):

I hope EK takes a stake in AI with an advisory role in exchange for expanded rights to the Indian market.

How would that work seeing as any Indian carrier is going to want to overfly DXB as much as possible?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3602 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9966 times:

Quoting comorin (Reply 5):

No direct NRT-GRU. The Japan-Brasil traffic mostly connects via North America.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3736 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 9888 times:

Quoting comorin (Reply 5):
I presume that there are no nonstops on that sector?

No commercial aircraft is capable of flying that distance fully loaded, perhaps an empty 77L or 345.


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 9869 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 7):
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 6):

I hope EK takes a stake in AI with an advisory role in exchange for expanded rights to the Indian market.

How would that work seeing as any Indian carrier is going to want to overfly DXB as much as possible?

That would happen anyways. Indian international travel sector is growing at 11% per year, and that should provide enough room for all carriers to increase their absolute numbers.

From EK's perspective, more rights means more business even as Indian carriers increase their non-stops to NA/Europe. It benefits AI as it gets much needed management expertise to take on Jet and Kingfisher. AI could codeshare with EK on India-DXB-NA routes, and feed more passengers to EK with its own metal on India-DXB routes.

I am glad that India is looking into allowing foreign carriers to own a stake, and not just foreign investors. A carefully structured investment could easily allow a foreign carrier, in alliance with another foreign investor, up to 49% ownership. Add to that a strategic alliance with a local investor, a foreign airline could have effective control of an Indian carrier.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 9755 times:
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EK said last week they want to increase their coverage of South America to 5 markets by 2015. I do expect in the near future that EK begin a flight to GIG and EZE. Asia-South America in my view will be a market 10 times bigger in 2015.


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12593 posts, RR: 34
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 9727 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 8):
No direct NRT-GRU. The Japan-Brasil traffic mostly connects via North America.

I'm surprised that TAM has never gone into this market; it used to be an important route for RG.

EK will need to get into more markets than just China, India and Brazil if it wants to meet the capacity it is creating with its new orders. Yes, Argentina, possibly Chile too, but also Europe, Africa, more in Australia and more besides.

I still wonder if it is wise to have the A359 or 77W as its smallest aircraft type, as appears to be its strategy, once the A332 and 772 are retired.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9615 times:
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Quoting kaitak (Reply 12):
I'm surprised that TAM has never gone into this market; it used to be an important route for RG.

Because it's not so high yield as many can imagine and there's no guarantee you will secure the best yields. Brazilian community in Japan is not so different from the ones in BOS. RG and JL did that and we know their results. Want to try ? Sure...

Quoting kaitak (Reply 12):
EK will need to get into more markets than just China, India and Brazil if it wants to meet the capacity it is creating with its new orders. Yes, Argentina, possibly Chile too, but also Europe, Africa, more in Australia and more besides.

The best EK can do it's to continue on their focus. They recently said their model is to connect previous non-connected city pairs (they as example Tokyo to Rio de Janeiro) and i believe by adding Rio de Janeiro, Buenos Aires and Santiago, they will be able to add valuable traffic as we can see more of Asia-DXB-South America city pairs.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25687 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9552 times:
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Quoting kaitak (Reply 12):
EK will need to get into more markets than just China, India and Brazil if it wants to meet the capacity it is creating with its new orders.

  

I don't think those three markets are the exclusive future, the only future growth. We already know they would like more access to France and Germany - and Canada.

I assume the same applies to just about anywhere.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17820 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9454 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 10):
That would happen anyways

Of course, but I don't see how EK invests in Indian carriers without cannibalizing their own major traffic flows. For instance if Indian carriers launched nonstops to the top 10 or so unserved destinations in Europe served by EK--not out of the realm of possibility given Indian traffic growth--that would wipe out a noticeable chunk of EK's revenue. Personally I see a revitalized Indian airline sector as one of the bigger threats to EK's model.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3712 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9360 times:

I'm surprised no one has mentioned if EK wants to expand growth in the US. There was that old post of EK possibly starting MIA, DFW, and others. But in relation to this thread, does expansion to Brazil, China, and India rank higher than wanting to start MIA?

Just curious, that's all.



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently onlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13518 posts, RR: 100
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9343 times:
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Does anyone have a good link to the latest India/Dubai bilateral.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 1):
I thought they were capped out on total number of seats.

My impression was pretty close to maxed out.

Quoting mariner (Reply 4):
Changes coming in Indian aviation?

One would hope. But EK can find enough growth elsewhere (e.g., China to Africa) for a while. So they are not dependent on Indian aviation. However, more rights to India would improve profit.

Quoting mariner (Reply 14):
We already know they would like more access to France and Germany - and Canada.

That would be non, Nicht, and, "no, eh".   But once growth starts again, we'll see cracks in the bilaterals.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 9270 times:

The reason to expand Brazil is to capture the Japanese market. I believe the largest Japanese population outside Japan exists in Brazil, and GRU-DXB-NRT is only 1000 miles more that GRU-DFW-NRT, or GRU-IAH-NRT, which are the main points of exit for Brazilians to Japan. (At least in volume). So it makes sense that they would want to tap this market.

UAL


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9104 times:
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Quoting UAL747 (Reply 18):
The reason to expand Brazil is to capture the Japanese market. I believe the largest Japanese population outside Japan exists in Brazil, and GRU-DXB-NRT is only 1000 miles more that GRU-DFW-NRT, or GRU-IAH-NRT, which are the main points of exit for Brazilians to Japan. (At least in volume). So it makes sense that they would want to tap this market.

UAL

No it's not, that's your opinion not EK:

http://www.eturbonews.com/16594/emir...s-reap-over-1-billion-profits-year

"....The airline has a focus on connecting previously unconnected city-pairs around the world through just one stop in Dubai – such as Rio de Janeiro and Tokyo, for example...."

I don't know who bring this crazy idea that all EK wants it's to connect Japan and Brazil.

Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 16):
I'm surprised no one has mentioned if EK wants to expand growth in the US. There was that old post of EK possibly starting MIA, DFW, and others. But in relation to this thread, does expansion to Brazil, China, and India rank higher than wanting to start MIA?

You're correct, they want to grow in the Americas !
Five year plan is to add up to seven new destinations in the Americas, 4 in North America, 3 in South America

http://www.rascott.com/Dubai/Emirates%20Watch.htm



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineETinCaribe From Ethiopia, joined Dec 2009, 738 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8898 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
Personally I see a revitalized Indian airline sector as one of the bigger threats to EK's model.

I completely agree, India is so important to EK that I don't think it wants to change the status quo, which mostly works for EK.


User currently offlineAirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1655 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8750 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 17):
Does anyone have a good link to the latest India/Dubai bilateral.
http://dgca.nic.in/bilateral/uae0507.pdf
This is from the DGCA website. Does not mention any of the 6 stations mentioned in the article. Has there has been a revision in the bilateral as this one is shown as the 'latest' agreement


User currently offlinesydaircargo From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8247 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 3):
I would imagine EK would focus on connecting GRU with NRT. There are also some Brasilian engineering companies doing big projects in the Middle East and North Africa.

maybe doing a "round the world" flight DXB-SYD-.GRU-DXB


User currently offlinevarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1605 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7974 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 19):
I don't know who bring this crazy idea that all EK wants it's to connect Japan and Brazil.

I agree: this is not the only type of traffic they want
They also want the Syro-Lebanese people from IGU and GRU area who fly to the middle east, though low yield, and all the Chinese "technicians" who have appeared recently on the JJ and AF flights via Europe.

Furthermore, there's a new trend with globalization: lots of local retailers of electronics, clothes, anything made in China, from IGU, ASU, VVI for examples, are seen flying to CAN HKG PEK to do their market themselves while they had intermediaries before



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User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7221 times:
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Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 23):
I agree: this is not the only type of traffic they want
They also want the Syro-Lebanese people from IGU and GRU area who fly to the middle east, though low yield, and all the Chinese "technicians" who have appeared recently on the JJ and AF flights via Europe.

Furthermore, there's a new trend with globalization: lots of local retailers of electronics, clothes, anything made in China, from IGU, ASU, VVI for examples, are seen flying to CAN HKG PEK to do their market themselves while they had intermediaries before

Exaclty. Every new destination they open, it's not only the traffic from that city, but they capture new customer willing to fly there from many of their current network as mostly times they offer a quicker option.
To continue to grow they do need new markets, new destinations, and i'm sure that's why they will more than double the number of markets they cover in the Americas during the next 5 years, not so impressive, but interesting.

We might see service to MIA, ORD, GIG, EZE, CCS or BOG in the near future, plus another North-American gateway.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 behramjee : To GRU, EK get a fair mixture of traffic spread across their entire network and hence are not totally reliant on its KIX/NRT flights feeding GRU. They
26 DLPMMM : No one said that EK was only going after GRU-NRT, I was only pointing out that it is a significant market that EK will focus on. With the institution
27 FlyingAlex : One more aspect is that there is a reasonably-sized segment of the Brazilian population that is of Middle Eastern descent - mostly from the Levant -
28 LipeGIG : It's not that significant and the yields are not so great compared to other city pairs There's a good portion of MNL and others going to Rio, special
29 bsbisland : Do you have REAL information about yields?? Or just what you think it might be? and what would be the other city pairs? Brazil-Japan market is signif
30 behramjee : Hi, So is it true that UAE and Brazil have indeed signed an OPEN SKIES agreement? Please confirm...thanks!
31 Post contains links C010T3 : I confirm. Except for some details, it is open skies: http://www.anac.gov.br/arquivos/pdf/...aterais/E/EmiradosArabesUnidos.pdf
32 LipeGIG : Yes i have information based on the average fare and Tokyo-Brazil is not so high yield because it carry a lot of immigrants returning home that looks
33 alwaysontherun : Colombia and Ecuador too? Cheers, ###"I'm always on the Run"###
34 LipeGIG : Not yet, but i forgot about Singapore.
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