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ATR Gets A Boost At Farnborough  
User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2630 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6655 times:

BIG day for ATR at Farnborough today!

Azul 20+20 ATR-72-600s
Azul is a new ATR customer and currently operates E190/195s on regional routes. Deliveries start late 2011.
http://www.atraircraft.com/public/at...D=20c9a893cc1a538e5717c9aaa97e6939

Air Lease Corporation 10+10 ATR-72-600s
New customer (duh!), deliveries to start Q4 2011.
http://www.atraircraft.com/public/at...D=20c9a893cc1a538e5717c9aaa97e6939

Golden Air 2 ATR-72-500s
Swedish airline Golden Air operates a/c on behalf of Blue1, a feeder airline for SK. Deliveries in august and october 2010(!), pretty short-term!
http://www.atraircraft.com/public/at...D=20c9a893cc1a538e5717c9aaa97e6939

Lao Airlines 2 ATR-72-500s
Lao Airlines is a long-standing ATR customer. Deliveries by the end of this year.
http://www.atraircraft.com/public/at...D=20c9a893cc1a538e5717c9aaa97e6939

Summing up:
- 4 ATR-72-500s
- 30 ATR-72-600s + 30 options
Not bad indeed!

I find it noteworthy that some airlines are still topping up on -500s despite the -600 being scheduled for next year and seemingly on time. I guess they need the capacity quickly, which is certainly a sign of recovery in the market!

So far this year, ATR has booked 42+30 aircraft orders, and has delivered 26. The backlog stood at 152 a/c on june 30th. Flight testing of the -600 is progressing well and EIS is planned in 2011. Furthermore, ATR has presented a new cabin for the -600 series. For additional info, here is the link to ATR's general press release
http://www.atraircraft.com/public/at...D=20c9a893cc1a538e5717c9aaa97e6939


And It's only tuesday... we may not have seen the last of ATR yet!

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7063 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6495 times:

Wow great news for ATR !! They were a little behind Bombardier and the Q400 for years maybe this will change with the -ATR72 - 600 now.


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently onlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1721 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6402 times:

ATR is a wonderful airplane, but i don´t know if the prize of the -600 is too expensive, also many airlines as you said need the plane right now, so the -500 is a good addition, also the second hand market for the ATR is very good, It´s very easy to sell an ATR if you no longer need it...

the -500 is a great plane, but i´m really looking forward to fly the -600 with this new cockpit... i hope they introduce new seats for pilots, because the actual one are not very comfortable.....

also interesting in the article is that they talk about 3 abreast business class seats and a new front door designed for jetbridge....more cabin storage....very needed... and LED, already in use in the -500 series....

interesting to know if someone decide to use the front door, where is it going to be?? and the cargo comp??


any link to a web with this info??

thank you....


User currently offlineacelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 830 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6237 times:

Is there a cut off date for ordering 500's, or will the 72-500 and 72-600 etc be built alongside one
another depending which airline has ordered which?

About time Binter ordered some more, Plentyof routes into Africa they could look at.

cheers



from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
User currently onlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7582 posts, RR: 42
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5933 times:

Wonder if VW (Mexican regional airline Aeromar) will place an order for more ATRs soon. They have entered into a codeshare agreement with MX, so that plus the economic recovery should put them in a position to expand.


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineAirlineReporter From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5928 times:

I am surprised that there are so many orders for ATR vs Bombardier for the Q400. Yes the Q400 costs more at the inception, but less in the long-term with lower operating costs. Either way, I think it is a good move for regional carriers to move away from jets and more towards turbo props. I expect to see more orders and more models to compete with both ATR and Bombardier in the near future.

User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5872 times:

Bombardier dropped the smaller Dash 8s, one wonders whether it's worth launching the upgraded 600 version of the smaller ATR-42, as sales for it are very rare these days, it does seem that turboprops are getting bigger and bigger.


it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4834 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5609 times:

Quoting migair54 (Reply 2):
also interesting in the article is that they talk about 3 abreast business class seats and a new front door designed for jetbridge....more cabin storage....very needed... and LED, already in use in the -500 series....

interesting to know if someone decide to use the front door, where is it going to be?? and the cargo comp??

any link to a web with this info??
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/ru...arn10-video-atr-reveals-serie.html



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlinekeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5563 times:

Good for ATR, props are unbeatable short haul. These orders provide the cashflow they need developping the bigger -900 under development.

User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3445 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5416 times:

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 6):
wonders whether it's worth launching the upgraded 600 version of the smaller ATR-42, as sales for it are very rare these days

I believe it is. There is nothing in the 25-40 seat turboprop being currently produced. The 426 is the closest thing configure it 42 seats.



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineAirnerd From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5233 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 9):
Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 6):
wonders whether it's worth launching the upgraded 600 version of the smaller ATR-42, as sales for it are very rare these days

I believe it is. There is nothing in the 25-40 seat turboprop being currently produced. The 426 is the closest thing configure it 42 seats.

Totally agree! There's still a huge hole out there for the smaller markets. The earlier Dash 8-100s, 200s, 300s, Saabs, and Embraer 120s will all need to be replaced someday - and while the Q-400 and to some extent RJs will be able to replace many of them, there's still a lot of routes that just won't work with 70+ seat aircraft. Just look at the troubles QX is starting to have at some of their smaller stations now that they've gone all Q400 (okay, they still have some CR7s too, but all the smaller props are gone).

In the US, Skywest has around 50 EMB-120s, Piedmont has around 50 of the smaller Dash 8s. A number of other regionals also have significant fleets of the 30-50 seaters. There are ample markets outside the US as well.

I thought the ATR-42-600 was a go. Was a decision made to put that model on hold and test demand for the 72-600?


User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4328 posts, RR: 35
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5046 times:

Quoting columba (Reply 1):
ATR !! They were a little behind Bombardier and the Q400 for years maybe this will change

Actually the ATR is doing great already for a few years. The Q400 orderbook now has less then half of the backlog then the ATR. It also might hurt the Q400 that there is no smaller version available anymore.
Even while the ATR is a bit slower and seems more old fashioned then the Q400 I guess economics are great.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4989 times:

EddieDude

Probably YES , Aeromar will order more ATRs.When speaking about the acquisition of their very first CRJs , Aeromar CEO said they are a very loyal ATR customer , and will stay in the future.


User currently onlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7582 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4860 times:

Merci FCKC. They have -320s and -500s right? Funny they decided to buy a CRJ.


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3445 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4605 times:

Quoting Airnerd (Reply 10):
Was a decision made to put that model on hold and test demand for the 72-600?

As far as I know they are still in flight testing it.

Neeleman from Azur says that the 726 has 30% less fuel burn than the Q400 over the 300-500km stage lengths. I just wish ATR had chosen the PW150 for the -600 series which is much faster but maybe not so good fuel burn.



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13110 posts, RR: 100
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4523 times:
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Quoting r2rho (Thread starter):
Air Lease Corporation 10+10 ATR-72-600s
New customer (duh!), deliveries to start Q4 2011.

First congrats to ATR.

Question, did ALC order any Q400's? If yes, then it is just spreading their risk. If no, it indicates where the market is going. I wouldn't vote against Udvar-Hazy.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 14):
I just wish ATR had chosen the PW150 for the -600 series which is much faster but maybe not so good fuel burn.

With oil at today's prices, fuel burn plays more of a role. The PW150 is simply too high of a horsepower powerplant for use in the ATR. The fuel burn waste at cruise would be horrid.

While I would wish for a more modern PW127 (axial low compressor), the PW150's axial compressor is sized too large for the ATR.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinejalap From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 355 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4490 times:

Total orders and deliveries for this family (42 + 72) must be reaching 1000 now, doesn't it?

Does that make it the most successfull turboprop family ever?


User currently onlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1721 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4465 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 15):
With oil at today's prices, fuel burn plays more of a role. The PW150 is simply too high of a horsepower powerplant for use in the ATR. The fuel burn waste at cruise would be horrid.

In regional flights fuel burn is much more important than speed, flying a 1 hour sector with an atr and saving 200 kgs is much more important than flying 8 minutes faster....

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 11):
Even while the ATR is a bit slower and seems more old fashioned then the Q400 I guess economics are great.

old fashioned..... maybe the old models but the new -500 interiors are good, LED light, nice seats, and if some airlines overhead tv for movies and comercials.....

I think ATR has a great product so I don´t expect any huge change in the design...... if something is working very good why change it??


User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2630 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3878 times:

Quoting migair54 (Reply 2):
i don´t know if the prize of the -600 is too expensive, also many airlines as you said need the plane right now, so the -500 is a good addition, also the second hand market for the ATR is very good, It´s very easy to sell an ATR if you no longer need it...

Is there any info on the list prices for each? Probably, existing -500 operators who don't really need the capabilities of the -600 are taking the opportunity to top up their fleets with -500s which seem to be available fairly quickly.

Quoting acelanzarote (Reply 3):
Is there a cut off date for ordering 500's, or will the 72-500 and 72-600 etc be built alongside one
another depending which airline has ordered which?

Seems you weren't the only one to ask:
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...s-to-keep-offering-the-72-500.html
"For the next few years, but not forever"

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 6):
Bombardier dropped the smaller Dash 8s, one wonders whether it's worth launching the upgraded 600 version of the smaller ATR-42,

Sure. The difference is that the Q300 did not have full commonality with the Q400, and I believe that the prodcution&assembly process was different, so it was probably not worth the extra costs for a handful of orders. The ATR-42 on the other hand has full commonality with the -72, and is built on the same line, so ATR can continue to offer it at negligible extra cost. Furthermore, after BBD's pull-out, ATR is now the only remaining manufacturer in that market segment - that exclusivity is a further reason to stay.

Quoting AirlineReporter (Reply 5):
Yes the Q400 costs more at the inception, but less in the long-term with lower operating costs.

Operating costs for the Q400 are actually higher, but for routes where its higher speed is important, they can be offset by the gain in time.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 14):

Neeleman from Azur says that the 726 has 30% less fuel burn than the Q400 over the 300-500km stage lengths. I just wish ATR had chosen the PW150 for the -600 series which is much faster but maybe not so good fuel burn.

Ah, but then there would be no differentiating factor between the two. ATR trades off speed for lower fuel burn & operating costs. It's a conscious decision. That way, each a/c has its own market niche where it dominates, and airlines have a choice between the different capabilites of the two models.

Quoting keesje (Reply 8):
These orders provide the cashflow they need developping the bigger -900 under development.

... which is the news I'm missing here: no mention at all about the new 90-seat turboprop in the press release   I was hoping for some more details to be reveiled, even if it's just preliminary studies. But the show is not over yet...
  


User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3445 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3600 times:

Quoting r2rho (Reply 18):
and airlines have a choice between the different capabilites of the two models.

Neeleman also said they won't be used much over that 500km threshold and these are his first turboprops he has ordered as a CEO of 4 airlines.



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4682 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3120 times:

Quoting AirlineReporter (Reply 5):
Yes the Q400 costs more at the inception, but less in the long-term with lower operating costs.

At least on short routes, that is not correct. The Q400 may be faster, but it also burns more fuel and is substantially heavier.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 15):
Question, did ALC order any Q400's?

Currently, the answer seems to be "no".

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 15):
While I would wish for a more modern PW127 (axial low compressor), the PW150's axial compressor is sized too large for the ATR.

By what amount could PWC improve the SFC of the PW127 if they were to keep the current engine architecture?
The PW127M is an improvement in terms of hot-and-high power and mx costs, but AFAIK it doesn't sport a lower fuel burn. And the PW100 family (except the 150) is still lacking a FADEC!



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6183 posts, RR: 34
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3024 times:

Quoting r2rho (Reply 18):
Sure. The difference is that the Q300 did not have full commonality with the Q400, and I believe that the prodcution&assembly process was different, so it was probably not worth the extra costs for a handful of orders.

You are correct. Very little of the Q400 is built in Toronto at the DH plant (just assembled there) whereas almost the entire Q300 (and Q200) was manufactured in Toronto.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinedanimarroquin From Colombia, joined Jan 2005, 449 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2778 times:

well hopefully AV will order some ATRs soon , to replace they're F50 s that are getting pretty old now !

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