Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
AA/BA/IB/AY/RJ Recieve Final ATI From DOT  
User currently offlineB377 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 142 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10747 times:

DOT issues final approval for ATI. Now the real discussion can begin.

http://www.regulations.gov/search/Re...#documentDetail?R=0900006480b1d7d9

91 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1344 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10801 times:

HURRAH!!!!!!!!!!!! Quick, someone, crack open some champagne! About time - I really hope BA/AA/IB/AY and RJ can quickly get coordinating their schedules etc to provide even better T/A service.

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11974 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10687 times:

Great, great news.

Finally, now these companies can get to work on strengthening their joint Trans-Atlantic business and providing more meaningful competition the already-immunized Star and SkyTeam groupings.


User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10637 times:

Great News!

I can't believe it took this long!


User currently offlineSATexan From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10608 times:

Finnnaaaaallllyyyyy...

Great News! Now the real work begins.


User currently offlinespeedbird9 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10559 times:

Great news for both sides of the Atlantic!!!!!!!!


Is the customer always right? Michael O'Leary: no the customer is nearly always wrong
User currently offlinedtw757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1593 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10482 times:

No press release from AA?


721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10477 times:

Quoting speedbird9 (Reply 5):
Great news for both sides of the Atlantic!!!!!!!!

Yes...it is great news...well done BA! Psst...don't tell anyone from BASSA, they will use it as an excuse to go on strike!


User currently offlineSATexan From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10458 times:

Quoting dtw757 (Reply 6):
No press release from AA?

Its here:
http://aa.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=2971


User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1076 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10439 times:

The concessions set by the DOT have been slightly altered, in order to make them compatible with those set by the EC. Originally, the DOT ruled that two “flex” slot pairs must be made immediately available for any US-LHR service, which obviously would have been quickly taken up by competitors. However, these two are now limited to DFW-LHR and MIA-LHR only, as per the EC agreement, which will make them much less attractive to other carriers. If no-one has claimed them by 2013, they can then be used for other US-LHR routes, provided the flights originate/terminate in DFW/MIA with a stop en-route.


Ryan / HKG
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7808 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10232 times:

Finally!!!! Bout damn time!

Any idea when we might hear about the changes this means to the FF programs and the codeshareing?

Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 9):
However, these two are now limited to DFW-LHR and MIA-LHR only, as per the EC agreement, which will make them much less attractive to other carriers. If no-one has claimed them by 2013, they can then be used for other US-LHR routes, provided the flights originate/terminate in DFW/MIA with a stop en-route.

So, for example, US could apply for DFW-CLT-LHR with a change of equipment?



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1076 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10176 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 10):
So, for example, US could apply for DFW-CLT-LHR with a change of equipment?

Yes, but only from summer 2013, if no-one has claimed them before that for DFW-LHR nonstop.



Ryan / HKG
User currently offlinevv701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7737 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10114 times:

Quoting Timboflier215 (Reply 1):
I really hope BA/AA/IB/AY and RJ can quickly get coordinating their schedules etc to provide even better T/A service.
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 10):
Any idea when we might hear about the changes this means to the FF programs and the codeshareing?

At the BA Investors' Day Meeting last May it was stated that provided ATI was granted before the end of July coordination of everything except timetables but including Frequent Flier programmes should be implemented by 31 October 2010, the start of the Winter Schedules. Scheduling was too complex to implement by that date but should be fully implemented on 27 March 2011, the start of the Summer Schedules.

Now we just have to wait for the press releases confirming this.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3829 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10112 times:

I'm sure SRB is mad that he has to take off the "NO WAY BA/AA" stickers on his planes for the third time, once and for all.

That being said, I am enthusiastic about this. It didn't just take US/EU open skies and stronger alternate hubs/alliances to oneworld/LHR (DL/AF/KL/SkyTeam at CDG/AMS, UA/CO/LH/Star at FRA). It took many supporters, including us a.netters. I want to thank all the strong support on both sides of the Atlantic that made this possible, including the director of my hometown airport, FWA, Tory Richardson. He was/is a huge supporter of AA/BA/IB ATI, and lobbied for this on behalf of smaller airports across America. WIthout people like him, SRB might have claimed "a David vs. Goliath victory" a third time too many.

[Edited 2010-07-20 15:43:28]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11974 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10085 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 10):
Any idea when we might hear about the changes this means to the FF programs and the codeshareing?

As VV indicated, I suspect that we're going to see some movement along those lines rather quickly. For starters, even if the airlines weren't able to talk until now about these things specifically, I'd imagine there's a whole lot of rather obvious signalling going on.

Of course the specific legal and financial specifics need to be worked out, and only now can, but I think they all already understand the broad outlines of where they will be moving in terms of frequent flyer programs, joint marketing and product coordination, and ultimately scheduling.

If the BA Investors Day schedule is to stick - and it seems that thus far the dates are holding - and all the coordination of the JBA except the joint schedule will be in place by 31 October, they're going to have to start announcing that stuff rather soon. It's already almost August - they only have a few months between now and then, which isn't a whole lot of time considering all the coordination that needs to take place.


User currently offlineSketty222 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1778 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9983 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 10):
Any idea when we might hear about the changes this means to the FF programs and the codeshareing?

The revenue sharing has to happen within 3 months of ATI being granted so the codesharing etc should happen in the very near future. With regards to FF schemes, this may take longer to come together but should hopefully be this year.

Very exciting times ahead for the TA market



There's flying and then there's flying
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9880 times:

Whooohoooo...now I can finally get to fly to LHR out of SFO on BA rather than having to fly to LAX/ORD/JFK (or DFW).......wait, I just did that last November   .

That being said, I'll still probably fly with AA as I'll get better FF-upgrade ability as well as exit row seats in advance, etc.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the next 6-12 months.   



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33286 posts, RR: 71
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9794 times:

There is a sixth airline in the agreement: OpenSkies, who will also be part of the JBA.


a.
User currently offlineIBA346 From France, joined Jan 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9769 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
There is a sixth airline in the agreement: OpenSkies, who will also be part of the JBA.

What is your source for this?


User currently offlineB377 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9764 times:

Since the DOT ATI approval includes BA's "Open Skies," will we see inclusion of them in code-sharing and/or the joint venture? Their routes NYC/WAS to ORY and suggested expansion NYC to BRU and FRA might be an interesting addition to oneworld. I haven't seen any comments regarding this. Any comments?

Sorry, MAH's earlier post was added while I was adding this.

[Edited 2010-07-20 17:26:25]

[Edited 2010-07-20 17:42:25]

User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9735 times:

Quoting B377 (Reply 19):
Their routes JFK/IAD to ORY and suggested expansion JFK to BRU and FRA might be an interesting addition to oneworld. I haven't seen any comments regarding this. Any comments?

OpenSkies operates EWR-ORY 2x daily.


User currently offlineAABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 607 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9660 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Huge day for AA/BA/IB. Looking forward to flying US-LHR on BA metal and earning AA FF miles!

This will present a real challenge to Star and Sky, and finally puts AA and BA on equal footing with the likes of UA/LH and DL/AF.


User currently offlineMcMax From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9568 times:

Thank goodness! It's about time--BA/AA have a lot of ground to catch up with Skyteam and Star. I fully expect BA/AA/IB have already had preliminary discussions for pre-planning some level of integration of the FF programs and other issues (e.g., reciprocal lounge access). I suspect we'll start hearing about route restructuring in a few months as they begin to identify redundancies between city pairs and coordinate schedules. I've mentioned this before, but I am really, really curious what AA/BA/IB will be doing about reciprocal upgrades on each others' flights.

--Max

P.S. It's refreshing that everyone on this thread is being positive about the final granting of ATI, and that the normal individuals who hate AA (and are pro-another airline) are staying off this thread and are not coming up with some ridiculous argument about how this ATI won't mean anything in terms of leveling the playing field.



De minimis non curat lex tamen ego curao
User currently offlinecarnivalair From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 9356 times:

How will SJU and the Caribbean be impacted by this? Could we expect a SJU - LGW or LHR on a BA 767 or AA 757???

Any other flights to Europe from SJU? BCN, for instance?


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 9331 times:

Quoting carnivalair (Reply 23):
Any other flights to Europe from SJU? BCN, for instance?

IB operates MAD-SJU-MAD 4x weekly (A343).


25 commavia : Doubtful. For starters, AA's presence in SJU is not what it once was. It is still a small connecting hub for them, but not like 10 years ago. Second,
26 LAXdude1023 : Agreed, however I would not rule out an extra weekly frequency from SJU-MAD on IB. 5 or 6x weekly seems doable with ATI.
27 carnivalair : What days does IB fly to SJU? BTW, I read on the San Juan Airport Wiki page that Air Europe is going to start flying the SJU - Spain (I think MAD) rou
28 MAH4546 : The OP's link. What else would it be?
29 Post contains images Mikey72 : Excellent. Way overdue though !
30 BlueSky1976 : Congratulations to every airline involved in this great accomplishment.
31 crosswinds21 : Finally...about freaking time. I'm looking forward to the changes that are going to come as a result of this. Hopefully, the changes will start being
32 Robt760 : Good news. Hopefully this doesn't provoke the usual "pissing contests" between the DL and AA Flagwavers.
33 baw716 : Ah the game's a foot on the North Atlantic.... AA really needed this. With no merger partner in the US, AA desperately needed a partner (yes, it will
34 DLMD90 : Integration of FF programs? Can someone outline or even speculate what changes might/will be down the pike for the AA Frequent Flyer?
35 MAH4546 : AA is actually rumored to be working on a new J product that might be announced this fall and puts it more on par with BA's. I disagree here. Madrid
36 gkirk : Could we see the likes of: Manchester-Dallas Manchester-Miami Manchester-Boston Glasgow-Chicago Glasgow-New York Birmingham-Chicago Birmingham-New Yor
37 tim171080 : MAH, can you elaborate/speculate on the aircraft types for a possible AMM-MIA and BCN-MIA routing?
38 LHRFlyer : MAN - DFW/MIA/BOS - Possibly yes, on AA metal GLA - ORD/NYC - Maybe, on AA metal BHX - ORD/NYC - Unlikely, but would be on AA metal if it did
39 MAH4546 : From MAN, the return of Miami would not shock me, but the others I would put close to zero chance. I do think AA will return to Glasgow and Birmingha
40 mutu : And ORY/IAD
41 SCL767 : RJ would certainly be welcomed at MIA, IMO. Currently, RJ operates AMM-BEY 4x daily and AMM-DAM 2x daily. These two cities are not well-served by one
42 spud757 : more to the point.... no press release from VS a la SRB? great news - OW really needed this to keep up with *A and ST. Be good to see some expansion
43 LAXdude1023 : If I may make a couple of predictions, here's what I think may happen as a result of ATI: JFK-GLA/EDI/BHX/MAN (year round) ORD-MAN (back to year round
44 PRAirbus : About time!!! YEAH!!! Hallelujah!!! Cry, VIRGIN, cry!!! :O This should boost AA and hopefully create some growth; AA needs new and additional longhaul
45 AIR MALTA : That means the growth will come from AA's and IB's side. What new routes can BA operate or introduce? Will BA share codes on routes from USA to let's
46 SCL767 : In terms of MIA, I would think that AA will most likely reinstate MIA-MAN, (at least seasonally). AA should operate MIA-LHR 10x weekly year-round (B7
47 LAXdude1023 : Im not really sold on the idea. MIA-MAN (ATI or no) is going to depend on what kind of contracts they can get for it. MIA-MAN always lived and died b
48 Post contains links commavia : By the way, here is Branson's latest rant: http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/07/richard-branson-not-very-happy.html Same old song and d
49 SCL767 : I agree AA wouldn't operate MIA-MAN without cruise contracts. Also, it's quite clear that AA isn't concerned with MIA-Europe flights. That's just how
50 FWAERJ : With the way he talks, I'm surprised SRB hasn't sued the feds about this yet.
51 Talaier : Bear in mind IB also flies MIA-MAD daily, so there is quite a large number of premium seats on the route already. IB said already that they would ope
52 LAXdude1023 : I think that AA will shift some attention to MIA in the coming month. I have been disappointed that AA never pursued MIA-MXP. Not only did AA miss th
53 WA707atMSP : You forgot DTW-LHR. It's often been speculated here that this route would return with an AA 75L post ATI. This route was served by BA 1956-2007 / 200
54 Talaier : I'm pretty confident that, when MIA-BCN opens, it'll be on IB metal. Unless AA shifts the JFK flight to IB. But IB needs to fly on its own metal, mos
55 FlyCaledonian : I think one thing that keeps getting overlooked with ATI is that AA/BA/IB intend to pursue "metal neutrality", i.e. it doesn't matter if IB is flying
56 Post contains images commavia : Absolutely. That is precisely what I expect will happen - AA will pull down some flying in existing markets, and deploy 757s from LHR to new U.S. mar
57 MAH4546 : Metal neutrality also equals slot-usage neutrality. AA/BA/IB can pool their slots and use them in whatever combination they choose. An "AA slot" can
58 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I don't expect to see BA leave ORD. Its an important station for them. They have spent quite a bit updating and upgrading their lounge @ ORD in T-5.
59 MAH4546 : There is value in having an airline's product on certain routes, and since profit is split based on a formula that includes capacity, there is value o
60 LAXdude1023 : I would add DFW to that list, especially since BA just upgraded DFW-LHR to a 744. Alot of it boils down to which carrier has the right configuration
61 VC10DC10 : May be a little off-the-wall, but what about ORD-HEL on an AA 763 or an AY 333? I would think it would provide a lot of unique connection opportunitie
62 MAH4546 : I don't think its off the wall, but: 1) AA and AY already have ATI. The new agreement doesn't make this more feasible than it has been for the past t
63 VC10DC10 : All excellent points. I guess the only thing that the larger AA/BA/IB/AY/RJ ATI would provide for ORD-HEL is using HEL to relieve LHR from connecting
64 AA1818 : What about JFK-HEL? Is there no O&D traffic? AA1818
65 MAH4546 : What about it? Finnair flies Helsinki-JFK. Helsinki's five largest O&D markets to the U.S., in order, are New York City, Miami, San Francisco, Ch
66 Cubsrule : The more interesting question to me is (and has been) where AA 75Ls go ex-LHR. I expect BWI-LHR will go 75L, and a return to DTW would not shock me.
67 LAXdude1023 : There really is not much O&D from the US to Finland in the grand picture, even from JFK. However, when you factor in connections at JFK and HEL,
68 AA1818 : Sorry- I should have specified for AA. As in is this a route that perhaps AA would take over and connect to AY in HEL since it is AY's only route to
69 MAH4546 : No. Finnair is part of ATI, but is not part of the metal-neutrality. Metal-neutrality is only between American, British Airways, Iberia and OpenSkies
70 Jacobin777 : PIT-LHR has potential as well....
71 VC10DC10 : Maybe I'm ignorant, and maybe I'm a contrarian, but I don't see a long-term future for TATL 757s at LHR. Won't the slots eventually be worth too much
72 commavia : Not necessarily. Two important things to remember: first, London still is - by far - the largest single O&D market in Europe from the United Stat
73 MAH4546 : It is not a given the route is marginal. A route with limited competition where the airline is the only trans-Atlantic carrier can be very lucrative.
74 Cubsrule : This is correct, but I do think it's fair on the other hand to say that AA/BA will need to do some prioritizing. If eastbound connectivity is importa
75 AJMIA : This is true now, but I heard another partner is already looking at joining the Joint Business Agreement. It could only be AY or RJ, and my guess it
76 MAH4546 : With only two trans-Atlantic routes - and MIA is operated by the holiday subsidary to it isn't even part of anything - AY has zero reason to join. If
77 Scotron11 : Well...depends. If the image they want to portray is OneWorld, then it doesnt really matter. One question...if an AA aircraft goes tech at LHR, could
78 LHRFlyer : Not at the last minute. There would be no catering ready. Nor would there be a BA crew at the outstation to operate the aircraft back to LHR. It woul
79 MAH4546 : Globally they might, but domestically American needs to portray the image of being American Airlines, which is why having its own product to its five
80 Scotron11 : Well...I would gather that is the image they want to project...all the carriers in OneWorld....having essentially a premium product which delivers no
81 MAH4546 : Not in a unionized industry, that's for sure.
82 AABB777 : An even better reason for AA to get a new J and F product similar to BA's current J and just-released F ! But I agree, AA is not going to put their p
83 Cubsrule : ...or a heavily-regulated one.
84 vv701 : While this is a valid view I think it will depend on the route, Some new TATL routes may provide high yield but low density O&D traffic, Some oth
85 Post contains images Jacobin777 : AA would be better off removing 1/2 its F-seats and adding maybe some J and possibly a Y+ -or adding J and Y. Yet another problem by the unions.. ...
86 JAL : It's about time they received approval!
87 Post contains images AJMIA : Good points... In a conversation I had with someone who was working on the project when I was teaching the AA/BA/IB JBA orientation class I was given
88 B752OS : My question is this, there are a lot of rumors that have been mentioned on these threads in the last couple of months of potential services to MIA. P
89 SESGDL : If the demand existed from MIA to all of these places than it would already have these services. While MIA is a large and growing market, a.netters s
90 david_itl : I would imagine because it's more of a sustained demand over that length of time and that MIA is a very seasonal route. I'd like to think BA would no
91 MAH4546 : MIA-MAN relied on cruise contracts and AA was counting on a BA to codeshare, but BA eventually said no. So BOS-MAN was extended a little into early w
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
AA/BA/IB ATI Questions. posted Sun Oct 11 2009 07:13:23 by Mikey72
EU Objects To AA-BA-IB ATI posted Thu Oct 1 2009 19:15:41 by LAXintl
Here It Comes: AA/BA/IB Likely To Seek ATI posted Wed Jul 2 2008 17:42:53 by Commavia
AA/BA/IB JBA Canada posted Tue May 11 2010 17:45:05 by YULNYC
AA-BA-IB Decision Expected This Week posted Tue Feb 9 2010 16:56:23 by MAH4546
...Across The Other Ocean-AA/BA/IB Concessions? posted Fri Jan 29 2010 15:17:37 by Aaway
AA/BA/IB Agreement? posted Tue Nov 25 2008 19:35:33 by Willyj
AA Applies For ATI With IB, MA, RJ, AY posted Tue Jul 24 2007 16:06:55 by BigGSFO
AA/BA ATI Approval Expected This Week posted Sun Oct 25 2009 12:59:46 by MAH4546
How Will ATI Impact AA/BA Trans-Atlantic Balance? posted Tue Jul 21 2009 08:30:58 by Ssides