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OAG Changes 7/23/2010: AA/AC/B6/DL/F9/FL/LW/UA/ZK  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7373 posts, RR: 14
Posted (4 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8807 times:

This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now.

How to read:
ABE-MDT 3>2 APR means a reduction in one roundtrip from 3 to 2 for April only
ABE-MDT 3.8>2.7 APR-JUN This is the raw format of the data which sometimes I'm too lazy to retype. It means that over a month they were averaging a little less than 4 trips per day and now it's a little less than 3 per day. So, basically they cancelled 8 flights per week or so. Airlines are doing A LOT of non-daily ops now, so these fractions are pervasive.
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY- means an increase from 4 to 6 roundtrips starting in May and continuing
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY-JUN, 5>6 JUL means the change is only for the stated period May to June and then a different change for July in the same route



AA
JFK-FLL 0>2 NOV- (Isn't this what B6 is for??)
JFK-LAS 1>2 NOV-
JFK-MCO 2>4 NOV-

AC
MSY-YYZ 0>1 OCT-

B6
BOS-FLL 3>4 OCT
BOS-BWI 4>5 NOV- (So much for B6 giving in)
BOS-FLL 6>7 NOV-
BOS-ORD 2>3 NOV-
BOS-SAN 2>1 NOV-
BOS-TPA 4>5 NOV-
JFK-BTV 4>3 NOV-
JFK-BUR 3>2 NOV-
JFK-KIN 2>1 NOV-
JFK-SDQ 5>4 FEB-
JFK-SJU 6>5 NOV-
JFK-TPA 6>5 NOV-

DL
ATL-CLT 11>12 NOV-
ATL-DSM 3>4 NOV-
ATL-STL 8>9 NOV-
CVG-LEX 2>0 NOV-
DTW-HND 0>1 NOV-
JFK-FLL 3>2 NOV-
LAS-LAX 6>7 NOV-
LAX-HND 0>1 NOV-
MSP-LGA 7>8 OCT-

F9
F9 moved up the date that the YX code is supplanted by F9 to 10/1, however, the YX flights were not deleted for the period Oct-Dec. Either the schedules are out of sync or it's an error.

MKE-TUS 0>1/WK NOV-

FL
ATL-FLL 7>8 NOV-
ATL-LGA 9>8 NOV-
ATL-MKE 4>5 OCT-
MKE-DEN 2>1 SEP- (YX drops ATL, will FL drop DEN?)
MKE-LAS 2>3 OCT-

LW
ATL-BNA 9/WK>2/WK AUG-
BNA-AHN 0>1 AUG-

UA
DEN-BOI 5>6 NOV-DEC
DEN-BZN 4>5 NOV-DEC
DEN-FAR 3>4 NOV-FEB
DEN-GRR 1>2 NOV-DEC
DEN-JAC 2>3 NOV-DEC
DEN-MSO 4>5 NOV-JAN
DEN-PSP 4>5 NOV-DEC
DEN-SBA 2>3 NOV-
DEN-SLC 7>6 NOV-
DEN-YWG 4>3 NOV-JAN
LAX-MCO 2>1 NOV-FEB
LAX-SAN 14>13 NOV-
PDX-LMT 2>1 NOV-
RNO-LAX 2>3 NOV-

ZK
BIL DEN 1.0>1.7
BIL GDV 0.8>0.0
BIL SDY 1.8>0.8
DEN BIL 1.0>1.7
DEN GCC 2.5>3.5
DIK GDV 0.0>0.7
DIK ISN 1.8>0.8
DIK SDY 1.0>0.0
GCC DEN 2.5>3.4
GCC GDV 0.7>0.2
GCC ISN 0.0>1.0
GCC MLS 1.7>0.7
GCC SDY 0.0>1.7
GDV BIL 0.8>0.0
GDV DIK 0.0>0.7
GDV GCC 0.7>1.0
GDV SDY 0.2>0.0
GGW MLS 0.7>0.0
ISN DIK 1.8>0.8
ISN SHR 0.0>1.0
MLS GCC 1.7>0.7
MLS GGW 0.7>0.0
MLS SHR 0.0>1.0
SDY BIL 1.8>0.8
SDY DIK 1.0>0.0
SDY GCC 0.0>1.7
SDY GDV 0.2>0.0
SHR GDV 0.0>0.8
SHR MLS 0.0>1.0

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5694 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days ago) and read 8732 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
ATL-STL 8>9 NOV-

This is an increase in seats and flights as Delta gets rid of the Delta Connection on the STL-ATL route, and we see 6 MD88 and 3 DC950. Not Bad!

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7373 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days ago) and read 8601 times:

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 1):
his is an increase in seats and flights as Delta gets rid of the Delta Connection on the STL-ATL route, and we see 6 MD88 and 3 DC950. Not Bad!

Probably other carriers are still adjusting to the demise of the AA hub.

Speaking of such things, CVG loses another spoke. Anybody wanna speculate when CVG will only have hubs + Northeast + Florida? I think that's the end game. The Florida might even go if an LCC comes in.

Here's where I think they will be eventually. That would take them from 157 to 44. It'll either be Fall 2011 or Fall 2012 IMHO.

ATL 7>9
MSP 6>7
DTW 6>7
LGA 5>4
ORD 5>0
PHL 4>0
BDL 4>0
BOS 4>2
DCA 4>4
EWR 4>0
MCO 3>2
RSW 3>1
CMH 3>0
DFW 3>0
GRR 3>0
IAH 3>0
MCI 3>0
MEM 3>4
MKE 3>0
RDU 3>0
SDF 3>0
STL 3>0
TYS 3>0
IAD 3>0
LAX 3>1
BNA 3>0
BWI 3>0
YYZ 3>0
CLT 2>0
FLL 2>1
JAX 2>0
JFK 2>0
LAS 2>0
SBN 2>0
SLC 2>1
TPA 2>1
CLE 2>0
DEN 2>0
FWA 2>0
HTS 2>0
MDT 2>0
ORF 2>0
RIC 2>0
SFO 2>0
XNA 2>0
EVV 2>0
PIT 2>0
AUS 1>0
CDG 1>0
GSO 1>0
MIA 1>0
OMA 1>0
PHX 1>0
SAT 1>0
SEA 1>0
GSP 1>0
MSN 1>0
MSY 1>0
ROC 1>0
SAN 1>0
SYR 1>0
YUL 1>0
HPN 1>0


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5273 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 6 days ago) and read 8442 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
Speaking of such things, CVG loses another spoke. Anybody wanna speculate when CVG will only have hubs + Northeast + Florida? I think that's the end game. The Florida might even go if an LCC comes in.

Here's where I think they will be eventually. That would take them from 157 to 44. It'll either be Fall 2011 or Fall 2012 IMHO.

Would we expect other carriers to add seats from their hubs to CVG, either with additional frequencies or large aircraft?


User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1865 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8405 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
(So much for B6 giving in)

Indeed. The battle continues.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
ABE-MDT

Out of curiosity, how did you settle on that, of all things, for your example pairing? Nobody's even flown that lately, I don't think. Used to be part of a triangle routing on DL. Maybe US flew it back when they still had a crazy tangled web across the northeast.


User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1689 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8394 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
JFK 2>0
LAS 2>0
SBN 2>0
SLC 2>1

I would mainly disagree in this area - I have a hard time envisioning CVG going to zero JFK flights. I also would picture CVG retaining two SLC flights (bracketing the workday, essentially) and quite possibly one flight to LAS, less than daily if nothing else. While CVG is most likely still on the chopping block, I can't picture DL cutting it down to less SLC/JFK service than STL and less LAS service than BDL that quickly.


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8371 times:

Quoting tharanga (Reply 4):
Out of curiosity, how did you settle on that, of all things, for your example pairing? Nobody's even flown that lately, I don't think. Used to be part of a triangle routing on DL. Maybe US flew it back when they still had a crazy tangled web across the northeast.

UA flew it for years as a tag-on to ORDMDT, and of course DL flew for a while as well onto ATLMDT. It's just a good simple example. He's not using ABEMDT to say there's no service, just to serve as an example. OTOH, these threads are invaluable, especially with having to go through the glutton of each airline's PDF timetables takes way too much time.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1865 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8291 times:

USPIT:

Oh, the threads are absolutely invaluable, and I realise it's just an example. I'm just curious why that example - was it totally randomly picked out of the air, or what.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5472 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8280 times:

Looks like the recovery of air service at LAS continues -- AA, DL and FL are all adding capacity on this summary. (I'm not sure if this is the restoration of previous capacity or new growth.) The airlines must be seeing or at least anticipating a recovering economy there and I hope the other soft spots around the U.S. are not far behind. In any case, I find it encouraging.

bb


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2887 posts, RR: 31
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8091 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AA
JFK-FLL 0>2 NOV- (Isn't this what B6 is for??)
JFK-LAS 1>2 NOV-
JFK-MCO 2>4 NOV-

Likely all JFK slot placeholders that can take advantage of this winter's sunbird traffic but will ultimately provide for a transatlantic expansion by summer 2011.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DTW-HND 0>1 NOV-
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
LAX-HND 0>1 NOV-

I thought these were starting in late January, not November?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 moved up the date that the YX code is supplanted by F9 to 10/1, however, the YX flights were not deleted for the period Oct-Dec. Either the schedules are out of sync or it's an error.

The merger website states that all flights will have the F9 code from 10/1 onwards. I think deleting next years YX coded flights was easy, while transferring all of the holiday flights (many already booked) is going to take much longer.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
MKE-DEN 2>1 SEP- (YX drops ATL, will FL drop DEN?)

Not really a fair comparison, because on the MKE-ATL sector, you have FL flying a hub-hub route and a very strong DL as well. On MKE-DEN, you have an incredibly weak UA (just 2x daily CRJ) and then F9. Plenty of room for FL as it stands now. But if WN adds MKE-DEN, then I could see FL throwing in the towel.

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):

Speaking of such things, CVG loses another spoke. Anybody wanna speculate when CVG will only have hubs + Northeast + Florida? I think that's the end game. The Florida might even go if an LCC comes in.

The loss of LEX is nothing to get excited about. CVG-LEX serves connecting traffic only (no local traffic would ever take such an incredibly short flight!) and those folks that were connecting through CVG can just as easily connect through ATL, DTW, MEM, LGA, or DCA. When you start seeing the likes of MSY or SFO getting cut, that's when you have to start getting worried.



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2887 posts, RR: 31
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8024 times:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 3):
Would we expect other carriers to add seats from their hubs to CVG, either with additional frequencies or large aircraft?

USA3000 aside, the only airline flying mainline aircraft into CVG other than DL is UA. I could certainly see them taking over CVG-SFO if DL dropped it (DL wouldn't abandon CVG-LAX) and maybe upgrading some CVG-ORD flights or even CVG-DEN to mainline. With the imminent UA/CO merger, you could even have CVG-IAH go mainline! AA hasn't flown the trusty mad dogs on CVG-DFW in years, but they might if DL really left CVG hanging out to dry. Ditto for US on the CVG-CLT route. Also look for G4, FL, or even F9 to add flights!



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7961 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
JFK-FLL 0>2 NOV- (Isn't this what B6 is for??)
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
BOS-BWI 4>5 NOV- (So much for B6 giving in)

Well, let's not say that too soon. I envision them doing what they have to do in certain markets for their own bottom line but at the same time; at some point, route allignment and realization must happen. Just takes time. Again, I'm a newbie to the indutry and will be the first to say that with only about 5 years adult experience, I respect what some of the more seasoned guys think.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
CVG-LEX 2>0 NOV-

And when are we going to stop calling CVG a hub?

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
Speaking of such things, CVG loses another spoke. Anybody wanna speculate when CVG will only have hubs + Northeast + Florida? I think that's the end game. The Florida might even go if an LCC comes in

Pretty much the same thing I was thinking. Also, DL know which routes are their bread and butter which can survive as strictly CVG-wherever without much feed into the station itself.

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
LGA 5>4

I would actually keep it at 5 IMO. May even see an upswing as the market continues to improve although I have no idea of the pax statistics between the two.

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
RSW 3>1

Or gone entirely.

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
MSY 1>0

DL has historically done pretty well in New Orleans btu then again it may make no sense to bypass two hubs to keep one flight out of CVG so you may very well be right.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offline747fan From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1187 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7884 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 9):
The loss of LEX is nothing to get excited about. CVG-LEX serves connecting traffic only (no local traffic would ever take such an incredibly short flight!) and those folks that were connecting through CVG can just as easily connect through ATL, DTW, MEM, LGA, or DCA. When you start seeing the likes of MSY or SFO getting cut, that's when you have to start getting worried.

   I wonder how much longer CVG-SDF will remain (currently its 3 or 4X daily), just like LEX its a short 20-minute hop.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7809 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
Here's where I think they will be eventually. That would take them from 157 to 44. It'll either be Fall 2011 or Fall 2012 IMHO.
CDG 1>0

Couldn't CVG-CDG survive based on AF at CDG?



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently onlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1967 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7506 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 9):
The loss of LEX is nothing to get excited about. CVG-LEX serves connecting traffic only (no local traffic would ever take such an incredibly short flight!) and those folks that were connecting through CVG can just as easily connect through ATL, DTW, MEM, LGA, or DCA. When you start seeing the likes of MSY or SFO getting cut, that's when you have to start getting worried.

   The cutting of DL's only two LEX flights out of CVG certainly isn't any kind of bell weather for the CVG hub. I kind of wince every time I open up these OAG updates but have been pleasantly surprised with the last 3-4 updates seeing no CVG reductions. DL's cut flights to DAY, IND, and now LEX were eating traffic from CVG and cannibalizing DL's own fares, the flights will not be missed and, I can only imagine, will help DL at CVG as they refocus the hub more on O&D.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 13):

Couldn't CVG-CDG survive based on AF at CDG?


I believe so, daily 757 service at least.


User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1312 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7438 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 14):
DL's cut flights to DAY, IND, and now LEX

When do flights end to IND? I don't see an end date on DL's website.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6639 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7400 times:

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 15):
When do flights end to IND?

Ends August 31st.

One thing keeping CVG on life support a little longer is the failed slot swap. The original plan would have pulled capacity away from CVG to help bolster LGA. But with the slot swap currently dead, the capacity can't be moved.


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6667 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7376 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
EWR 4>0

I don't see EWR going to 0. They are flying CR7s and CR9s on the route currently. I think it's a lucrative business route, similar to JFK or LGA.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2247 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7374 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 14):
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 9):
The loss of LEX is nothing to get excited about. CVG-LEX serves connecting traffic only (no local traffic would ever take such an incredibly short flight!) and those folks that were connecting through CVG can just as easily connect through ATL, DTW, MEM, LGA, or DCA. When you start seeing the likes of MSY or SFO getting cut, that's when you have to start getting worried.


The cutting of DL's only two LEX flights out of CVG certainly isn't any kind of bell weather for the CVG hub.

At one time, DL served this route with MD-80s. Every time DL reduces the # of spokes out of CVG, no matter how short or long the flight, it is one more nail in the coffin of the hub.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7349 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
ATL-BNA 9/WK>2/WK AUG-
BNA-AHN 0>1 AUG-

Daily Nashville-Athens service? I understand they need a way to rotate a plane into AHN for the ATL-AHN service and were probably getting slaughtered on ATL-BNA, but damn. Oh well, when you get EAS money anyway...


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7373 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7233 times:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 3):
Would we expect other carriers to add seats from their hubs to CVG, either with additional frequencies or large aircraft?

Sure, I was just talking DL. I think an LCC will come into CVG (B6 or WN) and then DAY will ironically suffer quite a bit by the demise of CVG as a hub which you'd think would have the opposite effect on DAY at first blush.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 4):
Indeed. The battle continues.

Exactly

Quoting tharanga (Reply 4):
Out of curiosity, how did you settle on that, of all things, for your example pairing?

I used to have something relevant like JFK-LAX and people kept asking if it was real, so I picked a route that nobody cared about as my example. LOL  
Quoting steex (Reply 5):
I would mainly disagree in this area - I have a hard time envisioning CVG going to zero JFK flights.

That's my mistake. That should be on there. I'd give it 2 or 3 flights.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 7):
Oh, the threads are absolutely invaluable, and I realise it's just an example. I'm just curious why that example - was it totally randomly picked out of the air, or what.

Thanks. See above.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 9):
I thought these were starting in late January, not November?

Also my mistake, yes they start end of January. All the other DL changes were NOV so my fingers kept typing the same thing.

CORRECTED
DTW-HND 0>1 JAN-
LAX-HND 0>1 JAN-

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 9):
The merger website states that all flights will have the F9 code from 10/1 onwards.

Good to know.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 9):
Not really a fair comparison, because on the MKE-ATL sector, you have FL flying a hub-hub route and a very strong DL as well. On MKE-DEN, you have an incredibly weak UA (just 2x daily CRJ) and then F9. Plenty of room for FL as it stands now. But if WN adds MKE-DEN, then I could see FL throwing in the towel.

It's interesting they cut it back, though. It seems like a quid pro quo for Atlanta. Don't think those types of things don't happen. They do.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 9):
The loss of LEX is nothing to get excited about. CVG-LEX serves connecting traffic only

That's an ironic comment because the definition of a hub is a place that is scheduled to allow passengers to connect. If they get rid of the high connecting spokes it kills the hub...then again that's not news because we all know that's what is happening. DL doesn't even refer to it as a hub any more in speeches and such.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 11):
Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
LGA 5>4
I would actually keep it at 5 IMO. May even see an upswing as the market continues to improve although I have no idea of the pax statistics between the two.

I did that because I think there will be some pressure to move slots to other places and CVG is an excellent source as the hub dies.

Quoting 747fan (Reply 12):
I wonder how much longer CVG-SDF will remain

Not long

Quoting Humberside (Reply 13):
Couldn't CVG-CDG survive based on AF at CDG?

No. If the city gives DL $20 million in subsidies it will, but absent that the market is much too small to survive.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 14):
The cutting of DL's only two LEX flights out of CVG certainly isn't any kind of bell weather for the CVG hub.

Are you in denial or are you saying the hub is already dead so one more knife is irrelevant?

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 16):
One thing keeping CVG on life support a little longer is the failed slot swap. The original plan would have pulled capacity away from CVG to help bolster LGA.

VERY VERY ASTUTE. Agree 100%.  
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 19):
Oh well, when you get EAS money anyway...

That plane will have 1 passenger/day. The EAS program is a trainwreck. How can service be essential when it isn't used? That's a contradiction.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6793 posts, RR: 32
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7129 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 20):
I used to have something relevant like JFK-LAX and people kept asking if it was real, so I picked a route that nobody cared about as my example. LOL

If you ever want to get people apoplectic, you ought to use DFW-DAL as an example.   

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
BOS 4>2

Only if they lose the P&G/Gillette contract.


User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1865 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 7092 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 20):

I used to have something relevant like JFK-LAX and people kept asking if it was real, so I picked a route that nobody cared about as my example. LOL

That's hilarious. It just catches my eye because I've actually flown ABE-MDT.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25426 posts, RR: 86
Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 7084 times:
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Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
MKE-DEN 2>1 SEP- (YX drops ATL, will FL drop DEN?)

Pardon my cynicism, but wouldn't that be somewhat benevolent - and thus quite out of character for Airtran? LOL.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1064 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6965 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 19):
Daily Nashville-Athens service? I understand they need a way to rotate a plane into AHN for the ATL-AHN service and were probably getting slaughtered on ATL-BNA, but damn. Oh well, when you get EAS money anyway...

Perhaps it's a WN code share...   


25 Post contains images DAL767400ER : Well, at least that would be more than the current ATL-BNA and ATL-AHN combined .
26 GlobalCabotage : The days of DL at CVG and AA at STL are numbered. It's only a matter of time until they are just spokes to hubs. I do think a LCC will be in CVG by th
27 Post contains images mtnwest1979 : Well, they may get 2 or 3 when Georgia Bulldogs and Vanderbilt meet up this football season IIRC, this particular route (BNA-AHN) is not part of their
28 FutureUScapt : STL's countdown officially hit zero this past April; it is simply a spoke in the AA network with the only non-hub route left after the summer being S
29 enilria : Good point. I wonder if P&G will keep their HQ in CVG without the hub. That's gonna be a big pain for them. As you mention they do a lot of trave
30 flyguy89 : Disagree. With feed on the European end I believe CVG can sustain year-round service to Europe, and with DL's large SkyMiles base and corporate contr
31 lambertman : Are LGA & LAX AA hubs? I don't think so. Regardless, I was told that LAX was going as of the fall along with SEA. Seattle has already been axed,
32 mariner : I accept that things are "calming down" at MKE, but given the history between the two airlines, I would be extraordinarily surprised - as in fall ove
33 enilria : The Paris-Cincy market is only about 40 passengers per day. Additionally, over 50% of the traffic on the existing flight connects in CVG as opposed t
34 lambertman : They are part of the fabric of Cincinnati and I have a hard time believing they will be leaving. CVG will maintain flights to major markets plus midd
35 steeler83 : Personally, I think people in PIT were saying the same thing as US was cutting its service there in 2003 and 2004. I agree that there should be at le
36 PSU.DTW.SCE : I don't understand the insane infatuation with the DL-CVG deathwatch here on a.net. People on here speak like it is a done deal, almost with a sense o
37 flyguy89 : Yes and then in addition to those 40 pax per day the flight also picks up pax connecting through CDG. The flight has been especially packed lately be
38 FL787 : I agree. It's just a matter of MKE-DEN being FL's worst route out of MKE. I don't think they will drop it completely though. I really think you are r
39 lambertman : I'm in total agreement. In my last post I was responding to another post implying the hub was gone, but the sense of excitement as you say is ridicul
40 mariner : Well, well, I've always since things Frontier in a radically different way from you. I feel as if I've wandered into a Fight Club. LOL. mariner
41 lambertman : I should have put quotes around my numbers statement, but just look for precedents and look at the FL-F9 relationship. You have a metro area of rough
42 mariner : DEN? mariner
43 FutureUScapt : I'm not sure we really want to open that can of worms of what does/does not qualify as a hub. AA considers both LAX and NYC hubs, and regardless of o
44 FL787 : That's the thing though, I don't know of any precedents that would fit this situation. I'm gonna be even more generous and say 3 million. Northern Il
45 lambertman : I wouldn't say Denver is applicable for a couple reasons. It has significant advantages over Milwaukee in terms of geography, population (roughly 1 m
46 mariner : LOL. If three million supports three hubbing airlines, I don't see why two million (your number) can't support two airlines. Any serious discussion o
47 MAH4546 : Absolutely. Under AA's new "five corners" "strategy," LAX and LGA are hubs. AA is the largest mainline carrier at both airports. It's not going anyti
48 lambertman : Does it support three hubbing airlines? As I mentioned in my earlier post, its not like Frontier was prospering. Throw in the fact that it serves as
49 enilria : As I said 50% of the passengers on the plane connect in CVG, 40 passengers/day are "locals" and the remainder go beyond Paris from CVG origin. Slice
50 MAH4546 : The deal right now does not include overlapping routes, including co-terminals, so its moot - FLL was not going to be included regardless. And they c
51 enilria : JFK-FLL wasn't overlapping until this week when they announced it. LOL. In reality that's what happens. If you think code share partners don't discus
52 MAH4546 : Um, yes, it is overlapping, because MIA and FLL are coterminals. Also, JFK-FLL was announced in March, the same exact day the JetBlue interline was a
53 enilria : Semantics... Why wasn't it loaded until now? Ask a route planning person and you'll get a different answer...or better, become one and you'll get a r
54 MAH4546 : Crew scheduling and slot acquisition. AA was working on moving the S80s out of JFK, which finally happens December 2nd, and finalizing the transfer o
55 Indy : Has F9 (well Republic) reported earnings yet? FL was only marginally profitable at $0.09 per share. Don't know what part of the FL operation kept the
56 FL787 : Here are the stats for FL on MKE-DEN so far this year: Jan 62.9% Feb 58.5% Mar 75.8% Apr 57.0% (Lowest of all FL MKE routes) From what I have seen, t
57 Indy : Given the uncertainty in the industry a small but consistent profit may be the best thing in the world. Unless shareholders get greedy when they see
58 BOStonsox : B6 buying Eagle? It would be cool, but that is a major deviation from their business plan, especially with the multiple aircraft types. It would give
59 FL787 : I think FL's shareholders realize by now that when airlines lose money, FL loses less, and when airlines make money, FL makes less. FL's margin alway
60 TOMMY767 : WOW. That is definitely a rumor but I can easily wrap my head around that possibility...
61 MAH4546 : The way I see it, its just the first step towards integrating AA and JetBlue - something I increasingly think is likely to happen within 4-5 years.
62 Post contains images mariner : Three hubbing airlines are there, and have been for some time. Not so very long ago, it was generally believed that none of the three were making mon
63 GlobalCabotage : Kroger and P&G (and other business in Cincinnati) need flights out of CVG, be it on AA, CO, DL, UA, US or new LCC. You may not have the hub and fr
64 BOStonsox : That doesn't seem likely. AA has wanted to spin off Eagle for a while now, well before the deal with B6 was announced. There is a reason they want to
65 MAH4546 : Because it could possibly be a way to spin around union and SCOPE clause issues and reintegrate JetBlue and Eagle into a stronger AA in the future. I
66 TUSdawg23 : Ok yes maybe this route is being flown seasonally for only a few months starting in January once a day on an E190, but....HOORAY FOR TUS!!!
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