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Virgin America Announces Order For 40 A320s  
User currently offlinejamake1 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1012 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14895 times:

Press Release Source: Virgin America On Thursday July 22, 2010, 5:30 am

SAN FRANCISCO, July 22 /PRNewswire/ -- Virgin America today announces it plans to order 40 new Airbus A320 aircraft, with options for 20 additional aircraft. The new aircraft would be delivered from 2013 through 2016 – with 10 firm orders per year on average, and options for 20 additional aircraft in 2017-2018. With today's order of 40 new aircraft and growth from other sources, Virgin America's fleet is projected to grow from its current 28 aircraft to 90 aircraft by 2016 – a compounded annual growth rate of 21.5 percent. David Cush, Virgin America President and CEO, and John Leahy, Airbus Chief Operating Officer, make the announcement of their memorandum of understanding today at the Farnborough International Airshow.


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Virgin...ts-prnews-1306914823.html?x=0&.v=1


United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14699 times:

Wow!
Now they just need some new city pairs to go with all those new jets. Let the guessing fun begin...


User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4119 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14631 times:

Would JetBlue come in and swoop them up, and then call those 40 aircraft theirs?

User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4020 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 14529 times:
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Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 2):
Would JetBlue come in and swoop them up, and then call those 40 aircraft theirs?

I don't see this happening at all. Branson and his U.S. Team of Executives will not allow that to happen.

The article does not say if VX has asked for the option to make these 40 A320s a combination of 319/320/321s? Does anyone have any idea about this. It would make sense for them to obtain some more 319s for smaller markets and the 321s for high volume routes such as JFK and undoubtedly ORD. It will also allow them to adjust capacity in all markets according to the demand each day.


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 14502 times:

No engine choice announced but IIRC their current fleet is CFM powered.


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlinesolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 852 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 14443 times:

According to Aviation News its 60 A320s

http://www.flightglobal.com/home/default.aspx

Ooops, missed reading the option for 20 a/c....my bad!

//Mike  Embarrassment

[Edited 2010-07-22 04:11:16]


Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlinegsmith2424 From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 14349 times:

One interesting thing to note is that these new A320's will have sharklets.

User currently offlineshengzhurou From China, joined May 2010, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 13716 times:

engine choice will be the current CFM56, besides the new A320s, cabin 2.0 will unveil soon.


Sheng Zhu Rou
User currently offlineisitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 13500 times:

Quoting gsmith2424 (Reply 6):
One interesting thing to note is that these new A320's will have sharklets.

Sharklets for a shark. Branson with the V.A. board, smells blood someplace out there. Could it be USAirways standing alone?
In time, the plot will thicken.
safe   



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7195 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 13380 times:

IMHO

This is way too much growth for them too fast. I question why they would want to risk their marginal performance by trying to swallow those kinds of growth numbers. Very few carriers can grow 20%+ and make money...and none recently; excepting Allegiant which is a different business model. I'd say it is about twice as fast as they need to be growing.

This is also going to send warning signs to their competitors to ratchet up the competition with them before they get bigger and harder to kill.


User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4119 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 13255 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 9):
This is way too much growth for them too fast.

I largely agree. This seems like 'PeopleExpress' kind of growth, and we saw what happened there.


User currently offlineSevenHeavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1156 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13140 times:

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 10):
This is way too much growth for them too fast.

I largely agree. This seems like 'PeopleExpress' kind of growth, and we saw what happened there.

People Express does not provide an accurate, or up to date comparison.

How different is this rate of growth to a more recent and closely modelled carrier like Jetblue? I'm not saying they are identical, but they surely carry more similarities than People Express?



So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17516 posts, RR: 45
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13142 times:

Quoting isitsafenow (Reply 8):
Sharklets for a shark. Branson with the V.A. board, smells blood someplace out there. Could it be USAirways standing alone?

They might be smelling their own blood. Every legacy carrier's financial performance is putting VX to shame.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offline757drvr From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13105 times:

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 10):
I largely agree. This seems like 'PeopleExpress' kind of growth, and we saw what happened there.

Huh???? 90 airplanes by their 9th year in operation? Very much on par with jetBlue! Look at their success!


User currently offlineasteriskceo From United States of America, joined May 2004, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13107 times:

Something doesn't smell right. This growth is idiotic, especially during these economic times, unless there's something else at play....

We shall see. I love VX, but this doesn't sit right with me.


User currently offline757drvr From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 12854 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):
They might be smelling their own blood. Every legacy carrier's financial performance is putting VX to shame.

Every Legacy???? What about AA?
Also comparing legacy financials to LCC financials isn't quite relevant! Comparing them to other LCC's would be more accurate. But remember, VX is still very small compared to everyone else. Let's see what the year end financials are before you write R.I.P. Word on the street is that they may have made a profit in the 2nd qtr. So maybe it's AA's blood that is being spilled based on your assumptions!


User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 12725 times:

Quoting asteriskceo (Reply 14):
especially during these economic times,

Agree with you somewhat. However, many believe the bottom of the financial slump is here, or near. If that is so, the timing would be perfect to take advantage of returning traffic, and new traffic resulting from new businesses being created.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17516 posts, RR: 45
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 12529 times:

Quoting 757drvr (Reply 15):
What about AA?

They lost money a good 3x faster than AA in the most recent comparable timeframes.

Quoting 757drvr (Reply 15):
Also comparing legacy financials to LCC financials isn't quite relevant! Comparing them to other LCC's would be more accurate.

Makes the comparison even worse



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offline757drvr From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 12385 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
Makes the comparison even worse

Like I said, they are still very small not to mention very young.
Your comparison is like comparing a small local grocery store to Walmart.
I am still not convinced of VX's success. However, they keep making progress and a slowly proving the nay sayers wrong!
I don't think they would get financing for an order this size if they didn't have a good business plan. Just give'em a couple of years!


User currently onlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3411 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 12186 times:

Quoting 757drvr (Reply 13):
Very much on par with jetBlue

and JetBlue took itself within an inch of going under with overly agressive growth. Mind they had better routes to start with too.


User currently offline757drvr From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 12128 times:

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 19):
Mind they had better routes to start with too.

How so??


User currently offlinesxb From France, joined Sep 2008, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 12027 times:

10 aircrafts/year from 2013 to 2018.... I don't see how this is too fast.
Just starting Chicago should use 5 aircrafts at least



SXB
User currently offlineisitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 12028 times:

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 19):
and JetBlue took itself within an inch of going under with overly agressive growth. Mind they had better routes to start with too.

You forgetting a big part of Blue's success. Larry N. in interviews a few years ago, said they had too much $$ to start with..over 300 mil. They did use over 150 million to establish planes, routes, slots, etc.
How much does V.A. have to toss around? THAT is the question.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlinerichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4264 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 11944 times:

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 19):
and JetBlue took itself within an inch of going under with overly agressive growth. Mind they had better routes to start with too.

An inch of going under? Are you high?
As I said many times during the years when all US airlines (except WN) were struggling, B6 was in far better shape than DL, NW (not merged at the time), US and UA. They curtailed their growth and retrenched but going under? I've seen some of their financials and I think they were reasonably strong especially given the market at the time. The 19% ownership from Lufthansa helped considerably, financially and strategically. I could be wrong but this is an airline that will be here for a long long time.

Quoting 757drvr (Reply 18):
I am still not convinced of VX's success. However, they keep making progress and a slowly proving the nay sayers wrong!

Lots of people on this site, who wave the colors of numerous other airlines, had written them off and continue to do so. Just like they did with JetBlue. And probably AirTran before that.

Quoting SevenHeavy (Reply 11):
People Express does not provide an accurate, or up to date comparison.

Absolutely true. That was a long time ago in a very different market environment. The lessons of PE should not be forgotten but to draw comparisons every time an upstart carrier is looking to expand is a little tiresome.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4568 posts, RR: 18
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 11702 times:

Quoting asteriskceo (Reply 14):
Something doesn't smell right. This growth is idiotic, especially during these economic times, unless there's something else at play....

What is at play is that they offer a superior domestic product. There are plenty of airlines that cater to Joe Cheapskate. But what is there for the person willing to spend a little more for a better product? Nothing. They offer a superior domestic product without the need to spend a fortune on a business class seat. I know their coach doesn't compare to business class but it would be greatly superior to most any other domestic coach product.

I have not actually flown them but I am basing my comments on product reviews and photos.

Imagine if you wanted to buy a car today and your only choice was a Toyota Yaris or a Lexus. You'd be a bit upset I'd imagine. That is the state of the domestic industry today. There is nothing in between. Virgin America fills that void. It is that car with more comfort without the price tag of a Lexus. Granted they will sell you that Lexus too if you want.  



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
25 hatbutton : Skybus also ordered 65 brand new planes. So I don't think it's safe to say that the business plan must be solid if they can get financing. My guess w
26 Boiler905 : That is quite an aggressive growth strategy. Coming from Sir Richard Branson though, I wouldn't expect anything less. haha Just for fun, I'll throw o
27 XT6Wagon : No, They were running very low on cash, creditors were asking for too much. They woke up just in time to spend now profit later entered that later ph
28 USAir1 : US Airways Q2 earnings released yesterday pretty much disprove that we are "blood in the water". Im pretty sure VX isn't going to launch an all out a
29 dl767captain : It's going to be nice to see more city pairs with these aircraft. Im personally hoping for more flights out of SAN to places like JFK SEA and new dest
30 bioyuki : Do you have any details about VX's planned new interior?
31 dartland : To me, this is the most relevant point in the whole thread. We can discuss all day the future growth of VX, but ordering planes really doesn't mean m
32 Post contains images isitsafenow : Why? When you go to the dance, you dance with the person who brought you...like the established carriers. The plate is crowded now. If it were me, I
33 Kleiner : Virgin has a rule that they don't buy other companies. It's too hard to change a culture than create a new one. So these "why don't they buy xxx" comm
34 AADC10 : VX is still rather small and they need to expand to reach what airlines call "critical mass" (I sure as hell would not call it that since critical ma
35 deltaflyertoo : The difference between VX and B6 is that when B6 grew it was exploiting a market that needed service. VX is kinda coming in trying to duplicate this,
36 noise : Virgin America is going to be a force at SFO and LAX! I'm betting they'll open up a focus city in the Eastern US pretty soon.
37 Flighty : Excellent post. That is exactly right, they need to grow because they are too small to be efficient. And, they at least feel like there are some oppo
38 AirbusA322 : Vancouver is desperate to be tapped, dont get me started on the gouging on domestic in Canada. VX have 50% aircraft usage, if they were to operate all
39 757drvr : Well said!
40 FLALEFTY : It seems like every 6 months since VX started the naysayers have predicting their demise. But guess what? They are still here and growing. The new A32
41 web500sjc : last i checked VX was more of a legacy airline without legacy costs- not a LCC. )they have a first class )they have a Y+ )and there Y is the same or
42 congaboy : I have, Indy, and this is where I think they make a good case for the growth. If I had a chance to fly them out of ATL, I would do it in a heartbeat.
43 noise : There's been some rumblings of turning LAS into something more significant than it already is (I can probably find the article where the CEO mentions
44 Elevated : True. False. Per company email: "We have not yet announced choice of engines for the additional aircraft." That is a huge factor for 321's and the bi
45 PlanesNTrains : Their superior onboard product will hopefully carry them through a big expansion push. I'm not sure how far that will get them but it should get them
46 StuckInCA : I hope they continue to grow and that they become profitable and successful. I've thoroughly enjoyed my experiences on their flights and take them whe
47 crownvic : noise...I can see that happening...Since US Airway's mass exodus out of LAS, a move I feel they will horribly regret in the coming years, it seems tha
48 Post contains images Boiler905 : Interesting theory, safe. I was just wishing the airline good luck in this airline industry (which we both agree is quite competitive) with their str
49 noise : Not the mention that LAS would serve as an rather excellent connecting point for East-West traffic (similar to what PHX is right now). VX's only majo
50 WesternA318 : Hmm...SLC/IAH to SFO and LAX? That'd be awesome I can't wait to see what this looks like! Umm...no they didn't. They started from the ground up. I ca
51 sunking737 : Certain people just are always going to cut down an airline no matter what airline it is. What some fail to realize that Virgin America does not have
52 XT6Wagon : facepalm everyone started from the ground up. No one walked out one day to find an operating certificate, thousands of employes and hundreds of plane
53 odwyerpw : it plans to order 40...with 20 options.... but then it plans to place 10 firm orders a year 2013-2016... then will firm the orders as 20 in 2017 &
54 SurfandSnow : I would love to see it happen, but let's face it, VX has a long way to go to be a "force" at LAX - UA and AA have well established "hubs", DL and AS
55 crownvic : noise...The WN stronghold may not be as much of a problem as you may think. Yes, LAS is supposedly WN's #1 city for flights, but LAS does not allow an
56 noise : I agree, and VX would need to act quickly if they ever want to establish themselves as one of the major players at LAS. Airlines looking to establish
57 LAXintl : While many here are talking about things like LAS, keep in mind, Virgin America already has a 1/2 terminal at LAX, and soon will have another 1/2 term
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