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Smisek:No Change To New United Livery  
User currently offlineRising From United States of America, joined May 2010, 272 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 29162 times:

On the earning call today, Jeff Smisek, CEO of Continental, in response to a media question about people disliking the new UA/CO branding, said he thinks the new combined United livery is just "marvelous" and will, as quickly as possible, repaint the fleet in the new colors upon the merger close. Also United, not surprisingly, has halted any further repainting in the current UA livery.

Looks like the disco ball is going to live on!


If it doesn't make sense, it's because it's not true.
251 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineslz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 29181 times:

I think most people have an issue with the lettertype the word United it written in; the U just doesn't look good really.

User currently offlineSeatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 767 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 28978 times:

It's an ego thing on CO's part. My bet is that once the merger is complete, the dust settles, the brand is solid, we'll see a livery change--probably 5 or so years.

User currently offlineAdam T. From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 957 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day ago) and read 28706 times:

I actually think keeping the CO colors but using the United font would look really sharp!

User currently offlineZentraedi From Japan, joined Jun 2007, 660 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day ago) and read 28479 times:

Will the repainting go as slow as the last UA repaint or be more inline with the speedy Delta repaint?

User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1885 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day ago) and read 28482 times:

Quoting Adam T. (Reply 3):
I actually think keeping the CO colors but using the United font would look really sharp!

I agree.
The current Continental livery is by far my favourite one of all North American carriers. I am thrilled that the number of aircraft carrying it will nearly triple. And finally, some Airbuses will carry it, too!



STOP TERRORRUSSIA!!!
User currently offlineGSPflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 369 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day ago) and read 28462 times:

Didn't I hear from somewhere that instead of it just saying "United" on the a/c it would say "United Airlines" IMHO that would look much better.

User currently offlineavek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day ago) and read 28437 times:

Quit dwelling in rumors and wishful thinking, folks. With only minor tweaking at most, the livery you see will be that of the world's largest airline.


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineUSAir1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 71 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day ago) and read 28417 times:

Quoting Rising (Thread starter):
On the earning call today, Jeff Smisek, CEO of Continental, in response to a media question about people disliking the new UA/CO branding, said he thinks the new combined United livery is just "marvelous" and will, as quickly as possible, repaint the fleet in the new colors upon the merger close. Also United, not surprisingly, has halted any further repainting in the current UA livery.

I am still in shock that they are going to abort the UA logo. That logo has so much history and even though both UA and CO's logos are known around the world, UAL's seemed like one of those logo's that would go on for ever- like AA's.


User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1577 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day ago) and read 28418 times:

Quoting Seatback (Reply 2):
It's an ego thing on CO's part. My bet is that once the merger is complete, the dust settles, the brand is solid, we'll see a livery change--probably 5 or so years.

It really does seem like a good minimal risk strategy - virtually no development cost to just say "take the current livery and print United instead of Continental", and then in a few years they can always design a new livery at their leisure and when the cash is available.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3753 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 28219 times:

Quoting USAir1 (Reply 8):
I am still in shock that they are going to abort the UA logo. That logo has so much history and even though both UA and CO's logos are known around the world, UAL's seemed like one of those logo's that would go on for ever- like AA's.

The bigger question is: Will Jeff Smisek dump Rhapsody in Blue for some production music? Dumping the UA "tulip" logo is one thing - I have both the UA tulip logo and the CO globe engrained in my mind. But if they quit using Rhapsody in Blue, riots will ensue in airport terminals and on United planes worldwide. 



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9821 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 28118 times:

Quoting USAir1 (Reply 8):
I am still in shock that they are going to abort the UA logo. That logo has so much history and even though both UA and CO's logos are known around the world, UAL's seemed like one of those logo's that would go on for ever- like AA's.

Agreed, I also think they should have gone for the UA livery. It also surpises me how an airline which is taking over another airline is adopting the livery of the airline it is taking over. Shouldn't that be the other way around?

This probably has been discussed before, but why aren't they going the way of KL/AF and AV/TA, having one holding company with two airline brands?

A388


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23021 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 28117 times:

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 9):
It really does seem like a good minimal risk strategy - virtually no development cost to just say "take the current livery and print United instead of Continental"

I think that's right, but by the same token, picking a more attractive font would have cost basically nothing as well. They have to do the same amount of painting regardless.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3031 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 28089 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 12):
This probably has been discussed before, but why aren't they going the way of KL/AF and AV/TA, having one holding company with two airline brands?

Because it isn't a holding company with two brands, that's why. It's one airline, one brand.


User currently offlineSulley From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 526 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 28085 times:

Why bother with having to change the paint... or the name? Continental looks just fine in their font 


In thrust we trust!
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 28016 times:
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Quoting A388 (Reply 12):
but why aren't they going the way of KL/AF and AV/TA, having one holding company with two airline brands?

Because if AF thought they could get away with a single brand operating in two different countries, they'd do it in a heartbeat. The more brands you have, the higher your costs.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 27996 times:

Quoting USAir1 (Reply 8):
I am still in shock that they are going to abort the UA logo. That logo has so much history and even though both UA and CO's logos are known around the world, UAL's seemed like one of those logo's that would go on for ever- like AA's.

It's give and take. Yes, they could have just had everything with the United identity but they chose a different route. And I don't think the DL livery was a mistake. The design was meant to incorporate DL and NW.

Quoting airceo (Reply 10):
I really, really hope that this somehow gets stopped.

Well, the #1 guy said today that isn't happening so I think we all need to just get over it.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 13):
I think that's right, but by the same token, picking a more attractive font would have cost basically nothing as well. They have to do the same amount of painting regardless.

I'm with you Cubs, believe me. But the customers really don't care waht font the word United is in. What I think most will be more upset about is that their beloved Continental Airlines is going away...



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23021 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 27951 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 18):
What I think most will be more upset about is that their beloved Continental Airlines is going away...

Passengers will complain and will feel nostalgic, but in the end they will fly their hometown airline whether it's called United or Continental or Northwest or NewCo.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6764 posts, RR: 31
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 27877 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 12):
why aren't they going the way of KL/AF and AV/TA, having one holding company with two airline brands?

KL & AF will be forced to remain separate for as long as there are separate bilateral agreements between foreign nations and France and the Netherlands (or for as long as these govern routes the airlines might wish to fly). Moreover, there are stronger views of national identity associated with KLM and Air France (individually; the whole concept of a united Europe is still very new. There are similar considerations between TA and AV; in fact, I believe that TA maintained operating subsidiaries in several Central American countries after subsuming LACSA, NICA, and Aviateca in order to stay in compliance with air service bilaterals.

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 9):
It really does seem like a good minimal risk strategy - virtually no development cost to just say "take the current livery and print United instead of Continental"

Actually, I think it's more of a message to CO's customers that even though the name is changing, the product is going to be more like Continental than United. United built a less-than-stellar reputation for service from the Summer from Hell through their bankruptcy and Ted.


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 27882 times:

Quoting Rising (Thread starter):
new combined United livery is just "marvelous" and will, as quickly as possible, repaint the fleet in the new colors upon the merger close. Also United, not surprisingly, has halted any further repainting in the current UA livery.

As much as a I like Jeff, he's got his head way up his rear to call his livery "marvelous." The UA paint scheme from the last 6 years a giant breath of fresh air compared to the 1991 CO disco ball scheme (IMHO.) I mean really, at least a SMALL change to the current logo wouldn't hurt UA/CO.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 11):
The bigger question is: Will Jeff Smisek dump Rhapsody in Blue for some production music?

That would be a travesty. Imagine to see Rhapsody dumped for some crappy apple garageband type music (similar to what CO uses in their safety video.) CO really could take a few notes from UA in terms of marketing and advertising. I never thought CO's marketing was that strong with living in the NYC area with the blandish billboards bragging about some customer service related award. Maybe it worked for people in Jersey but I highly doubt that strategy is going to work systemwide for the new UA.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineGSPflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 369 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 months 22 hours ago) and read 27708 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 12):
Agreed, I also think they should have gone for the UA livery. It also surpises me how an airline which is taking over another airline is adopting the livery of the airline it is taking over. Shouldn't that be the other way around?

Hasn't this happened with US/HP? They kept US branding, but it was essentially the HP company took over US. Even though I see why keeping the name "US Airways" was a better choice than "America West"


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 months 22 hours ago) and read 27687 times:

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 22):
Hasn't this happened with US/HP? They kept US branding, but it was essentially the HP company took over US. Even though I see why keeping the name "US Airways" was a better choice than "America West"

That's true but that wasn't as epic of a logo change as the UA/CO merger. The US logo was a bit more conventional at the time for the US/HP merger. I do miss AW's scheme on their 757s though!



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinePacificClipper From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 months 22 hours ago) and read 27575 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 21):
he's got his head way up his rear to call his livery "marvelous."
Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 21):
CO really could take a few notes from UA in terms of marketing and advertising

I think Jeff made the statement not because he truly thinks it's marvelous. Rather the trouble is that it's likely all about cost. UA has invested in its branding strategy, and it shows through their award-winning commercials and overall marketing approach. CO has taken the low road, using the globe logo and blue/gold as the basis for print ads along with a catchy line. It's cheap, just like the cheesy digitized music sample used in their safety videos. Repainting the company name on the CO fleet with United will cut the cost of repainting the entire combined fleet when compared with implementing a whole a new livery. Understandable.

Using the "United Airlines" title would go a long way in balancing and improving the combined carrier livery. On top of that, changing the font would be a huge improvement and cost very little. All branded items -- signage, uniforms, etc. will need to be updated anyway. Why not use a new font? Air France just did. Simple and inexpensive way to freshen it up a bit.

As for Rhapsody, the loss of a significant piece of music used as part of the corporate identity would be a travesty indeed. I hope the native UA marketing folks can get their CO counterparts to realize its importance -- and that the low road is not always best especially for the world's new number one carrier.



Fly Beautiful :: 747
User currently offlineisitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 months 22 hours ago) and read 27562 times:

Thinking this paint thing out...Continental's scheme has been around a while. Its identifiable.
UA's is in the middle of changing....no real identification yet with their new scheme.
So the decision was made....go with the CO colors instead of UA OR a whole new logo and scheme which is
NOT identifiable.

Does that make any sense?
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10736 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 months 22 hours ago) and read 27751 times:

So they still want to repaint hundreds of UA planes, most of which carry the 2004 livery with the old 1993-style CO look? What a waste of money!

Quoting Rising (Thread starter):
he thinks the new combined United livery is just "marvelous"

Its no news that many managers are design ignorants. And liers.


25 Post contains images SonomaFlyer : The amount of angst in this thread is amusing If you have a whole new branding scheme, both fleets must be repainted. In this case, there will be a ti
26 catiii : What, with their "Alice in Wonderland on LSD" type commercials? Right, because they (UA) have been knocking it out of the park for so long purely bas
27 Cubsrule : Where is this myth that UA's marketing has been unsuccessful coming from? Every thread about the merger seems to repeat it and I don't understand it.
28 SonomaFlyer : I actually think UA's marketing is solid. They've had product issues, employee relation issues and other legacy related stuff (at least pre-bankruptcy
29 justloveplanes : Smisek I doubt will dump an asset as valuable as Rhapsody in Blue. UA has rights to the best marketing jingle in the world, I think, by far. It's syn
30 CODC10 : Why wouldn't they be happy? There are more of them, their airline is still United, none of their bases are in serious danger, and they get to rid the
31 TOMMY767 : That's solid reasoning and more to show that this merger is going to be a powerhouse. Keep in mind that workers have represented the tulip logo for t
32 Post contains images Airport : Well, that settles that. I am a happy man for the time being. I do love the CO livery, I feel like I'm one of the few that do. That said, they did mak
33 Owleye : That's a sharp but often heard statement. I would like to put it this way: there are managers who just underestimate the power of good design. Alas o
34 kgaiflyer : AF/KL is an international corporation with seperate units based in two different countries. And *both* airlines are among the oldest on the planet.
35 RJ111 : I suspect they'll have a rebranding in the mid-term future to give a fresh new image. The CO livery is due a change anyway. For now they are probably
36 United787 : I am coming to terms with the Continental Livery and Logo but PLEASE tweak the font and the layout, it looks like a 1st year design studio project...
37 kgaiflyer : No one is taking over anyone. It's something like this A holding company will be formed as a result of a stock swap with UAL holding 55% of the stock
38 juicejones : Seriously...United still has plenty of their fleet in the old gray colors. After the merger, we'll see three types of UA aircraft: old colors, older
39 CODC10 : Perhaps, but I doubt there will be many UA employees weeping openly in the concourses once the last 'tulip' is finally painted over. A stable company
40 Post contains links Airport : Here's a great blog that explains it far better than I could. And the people who write blogs like this are design professionals who know way more abo
41 AADC10 : I have said this before but the UA planes are going to be painted in the CO livery about as fast as they have been painting their new livery, 5-7 year
42 kgaiflyer : Actually, no it doesn't. But keeping the least complex of the two brandings to continue on does.
43 ukoverlander : This is simply evidence to further support the position that the 'New United' is really the 'Old Continental' at least for the immediate future. That
44 Cubsrule : What's the systemwide load factor difference between UA and CO like?
45 kgaiflyer : The *new* United is a holding company formed by stock swap. Control will be 55% UAL and 45% CAL. There is no "evidence." You are relating personal op
46 TOMMY767 : CO is doing more these days to align itself closer to UAL like the roll out of charging for meals starting this fall. How does CO exactly have a good
47 Post contains images caljn : Yea...those "sophisticated" NY'ers are impervious to advertising and marketing. Nevermind it is a national campaign.
48 Post contains images kgaiflyer : And there are fanboys. And [believe it or not] it all works out in the long run.
49 ORDFan : I sincerely hope you are right: put me in the camp that hates the merged livery. Don't get me wrong, respectively and on their own, I think each live
50 catiii : I seem to recall that DL painted a few NW planes (a DC-9, an A330, a 744) pretty early on (with an "Operatted by NW" sticker by the door). Any idea i
51 ukoverlander : I think the best place to look might be in the Profit and Loss statements of the company accounts over the last 10 or 15 years, and then try to learn
52 CODC10 : That's a pretty lightweight piece with little insight as to why the branding doesn't work.
53 Post contains images kgaiflyer : Now, some the designs are downright clever.
54 Post contains images Antoniemey : Keeping the CO livery will mean they have to repaint fewer planes than they would if they kept the new UA livery. Never been to Cleveland, Nashville,
55 ukoverlander : And your point is what exactly ???????? Rather than reading the first line, jumping to a conclusion and simply running like a bull in a china shop to
56 TOMMY767 : Oh I have. I would obviously understand cleveland but why nashville? CO doesn't even have mainline operating into BNA these days.
57 Cubsrule : How does P&L demonstrate this massive defection from UA that you claim we've seen? I live in Nashville and have NEVER seen a CO ad here.
58 kgaiflyer : What I said. Thanks for your post.
59 Post contains images Renfro747 : Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue though, does it?
60 Kennyone : Will be the speedy repainting type. Remember Delta was trying to get the brand going ASAP, while United hadn't merged with another airline... just do
61 LHCVG : I'll buy that -- I was just htinking in terms of it being wiser, at least short term, to pick one existing livery and whatever name is going to be us
62 ukoverlander : If you don't understand the link between the financial bottom line and a robust and satisfied customer base then I am afraid you need more help than
63 Post contains images ukoverlander : Oh I see......so your point is has absolutely nothing to do with my post whatsoever. Thanks for clearing that up - now obviously it all makes sense.
64 ScottB : I think a better place to look is by comparing the airlines in 1999 and 2009. In 1999, UA's active mainline fleet was 594 aircraft; in 2009 that had
65 Cubsrule : They are linked no doubt but do not move in lockstep because, obviously, P&L is about much more than satisfied customers. So, again, after adjust
66 ukoverlander : An excellent and insightful post. Thanks for making this information available.
67 AADC10 : What's the systemwide load factor difference between UA and CO like? Load factor does not say anything about popularity or profitability. It is almos
68 Cubsrule : I'm not sure it's really a fair comparison - and, in fact, I'm not sure ANYTHING from DoT statistics would permit us to compare the brands. We can pr
69 futureorthopod : You might want to analyze the financial success of those two airliens on a deeper level than just simply providing that info. How about you compare t
70 TOMMY767 : I don't really have to do that. UA and CO have both had their shortcomings as major airline corporations. CO's "bad times" were in the 1980s thru the
71 Post contains images SonomaFlyer : Cubsrule, I don't think the financial figures cited by ScottB are DOT figures but take from each company's financial statements over the referenced ti
72 Cubsrule : Tommy, that's the point I'm driving at too. I think it's fair to say that the 2000s (are we supposed to call those the "aughts" now?) were a better d
73 TOMMY767 : I think they are to be called the "aughts" or is it "oughts?" Bahh I don't know. That's the thing, it wasn't. IIRC, in 2006-2007 both airlines were l
74 WesternA318 : Amen! Hence why I have switched my allegiance to DL and US now. LOL, reminds me of Texas Air...
75 osudvm : Wow! Just clicked on this topic and am somewhat surprised about the vehemince of the replies. I'm from CLE and love my CO but am psyched about a merge
76 Post contains images Sulley : US?
77 Post contains images FriendlySkies : Longer than that...the tulip is an updated form of the United "shield" logo that has been used since the 1930s.
78 Post contains images MarcoPoloWorld : The CO livery is awful; why not take this opportunity to update it instead of smearing it all over the combined larger fleet?
79 ckfred : It's seldom that a merged company keeps one company's name and adopts the logo of the other company. Further, CO jets are white with the pale gray low
80 tsugambler : Strangely enough, I can think of one company where, after a merger, the larger partner kept their name, but used the smaller partner's logo. That comp
81 JBo : Even then, it's still more of a "merged" logo because it took elements from both companies' logos to create a new logo, since the Boeing logotype rem
82 COalways : Nice! Sounds like CO is going to get rid of the Tulip ASAP to get the whole fleet into Continental Colors. Can't wait to see the 747 in CO colors and
83 Post contains images Schweigend : I agree--God, that is tiresome and boorish. That campaign got CO in people's faces when it needed to...but it is sooo played out. A leading world air
84 United787 : Thank you for sharing that blog. A-Netters can say what they want about the CO and UA liveries, I actually like both, but to people in the design wor
85 328JET : The livery should be changed to a new modern style which reflects aspects of both United and Continental.
86 COalways : Nope not gonna happen
87 Post contains images Rising : My only thought is they are trying to make a statement just by livery itself: this is a merger of equals. Whether you agree or not is a different stor
88 FlyASAGuy2005 : And he would be wrong if he said otherwise and didn't *change* it. So I really don't see how his head is up his ass.
89 ckfred : If you think about it, how good is either airline's marketing. I was talking to a friend and said, "What is United's slogan?" "Fly the friendly skies.
90 TOMMY767 : It's hard to imagine Continental's livery and the word "marvelous" used in the same sentence. It's bland, to the point, and respectable but certainly
91 tpaewr : Step back for a moment and think about this from the POV of CO's employees and customer base in NYC and Houston. We are losing our name, we are losing
92 Cubsrule : Why do CO people (employees and pax) believe that?
93 MSPNWA : As much as I dislike the CO livery, at least you'll have one big thing to hang onto. Former NW employees didn't even retain a truly historic, iconic
94 TOMMY767 : Actually I was totally rooting for the new UA being located in IAH. I thought the downtown Chicago location had a lot to do with politics including M
95 SoBe : As a fan of UA it bothered me at first to see the UA brand disappear. The choice was made and that's fine, the CO brand continues. My only gripe is th
96 TOMMY767 : I just analyzed this part a bit more. Why would these pax be flipping out? Are they not satisfied that the merger will bring a greater network than t
97 Cubsrule : Me too, but it's not really an apples-to-apples comparison, is it? There are hardly any ex-NW people leading DL. Aside from Richard Anderson, you nee
98 Post contains images mrskyguy : I guess I'm the only one who doesn't have an issue with the new proposed livery. I think it looks clear and professional. Could it be "better?" Perhap
99 DeltAirlines : Gorman (EVP - COO) is a former NWer (he had bounced around in between taking turns running Greyhound and working at Krispy Kreme, but his airline roo
100 Cubsrule : Large? Sure, I'll give you large for purposes of our discussion. But is it significant to the customer experience? Hardly - how does Andrea Newman or
101 multimark : I don't have a dog in this hunt having flown each carrier only once, but I'd strongly disagree with the above statements. The Continental livery tell
102 Post contains links psa188 : It's not a disco ball, it's the Unisphere. See: http://www.airtimes.com/cgat/usa/continental.htm Scroll down to the June 14, 1991 cover.
103 TOMMY767 : I think we'd all be better off with the meatball.
104 WesternA318 : Yes, US. I've grown fond of them since HP bought them out. I've never had one bad experience on them yet, and I flew almost 70,000 miles last year (I
105 Cubsrule : This is why I'm confused. If CO is contributing - as you rightly say - a livery, routes, planes, and employees, how is CO going to get "lost?"
106 WesternA318 : The name will be gone. We'll be just another company sucked up by UA. At least we're not doing it in pieces like Pan Am did though, ugh.
107 Cubsrule : ...as is the HP name. Is HP gone?
108 ScottB : And I think that speaks volumes. The impression I have gotten is that United passengers are more excited about the merger with Continental than Conti
109 WesternA318 : In name yes, however, the management ranks is all HP, as is the HQ and it is still PHX's home town airline. Dumbe down is right. With my agency, I us
110 Cubsrule : Scott, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. They introduced the new livery to freshen the brand - but that says nothing about the value of
111 kiwiandrew : You are not the only one , I like it aeshetically , and I also like the message it sends , but in general people who are not happy about something ar
112 EA CO AS : Work Hard, Fly Right. No, you're not alone - I love it, save for the "U" in "United" using the serif font; it should be capitalized instead of just a
113 JBo : CO livery/brand can still exist through an updated styling. Any look that involves grey, navy blue, and gold could - and would - be considered retain
114 Post contains images TOMMY767 : Maybe Jeff and Glenn need to take an advertising class before completing the merger
115 EA CO AS : Re-read what I wrote, as it's the same thing both Jeff and Glenn said; it's a "merger of equals." I never once said "this is an equal merger" from a
116 JBo : That may be, but you still seem to have a major problem with anyone who proposes a more visually equal merger.
117 Cubsrule : And the management ranks at UA will be all or nearly all CO. Why does headquarters location matter? Was US East Washington's hometown airline? Is FL
118 United1 : Actualy no...about half are coming from CO and the other half are coming from UA.
119 ScottB : It does speak to the value of the brand, in that the trade dress is one manifestation of the branding. United's livery change was almost certainly in
120 kgaiflyer : You mean when their headquarters was in Arlington,Virginia, near the MWAA headquarters, on the grounds of DCA? Yes it was.
121 kgaiflyer : That's a little simplistic. The *new* UA will be a holding company formed by stock swap with the current UAL in 55% ownership and the current CAL in
122 EA CO AS : Not at all. I'm for each "side," if you will, retaining something of their pre-merger identity. United gets to keep their name, which is huge to thei
123 Cubsrule : A new livery is ALWAYS a new start, but, again, that doesn't mean that the brand was, as you've argued, tarnished. Was WN's brand tarnished when they
124 Post contains images kgaiflyer : How would that be? USAirways / USAirways Express -- whereever it is now headquartered -- owns most of the landing slots at DCA. And the very few "Wes
125 ScottB : SWA's previous livery was 30 years old and screamed it, what with its reliance on earth tones. Arguably, it was due for a refresh. The prior United l
126 Cubsrule : It isn't. That's precisely my point. Headquarters location demonstrates nothing about anything besides real estate prices and tax breaks. Would CO sh
127 Post contains images kgaiflyer : Trust me. UAL stockholders are for maximum benefit to stockholders, and as it is, there are more of us than there are CAL stockholders. So, it will b
128 Cubsrule : Agreed - which is why they ought to be demanding that CO run the show. How much did UA lose last decade?
129 kgaiflyer : How much did CO lose before declaring its bankruptcies? *Both* lines are making money now, so that's really a red herring.
130 Cubsrule : Not sure I agree. Perhaps the more relevant question is how much Jeff has made/lost versus how much Glenn has made/lost.
131 ScottB : IMO NWA had some brand issues as well, what with the association with old planes, the pre-McNamara hub facilities at DTW, a spotty service reputation
132 UAL747DEN : Your numbers don't reflect what was really going on. At United mainline was reduced domestically because it could be done much cheaper with regional
133 ScottB : Actually, they do in that the revenue numbers are system revenue; moreover, the increases in Express passengers do not make up for the declines in ma
134 tpaewr : Yes, the numbers don't lie, but you can argue their import (I guess). This you can't dismiss; that a decade ago it would have been unfathomable that t
135 UAL747DEN : Yes, OVERALL it is cheaper which I think is a statement we both agree with. Like you point out, United has made a choice to offer fewer discounted se
136 Boston92 : I don't think that has anything to do with anything. What is actually important is what is happening right now, and right now judging from H1 results
137 Cubsrule : ...and the final UA livery maintained one of the most distinctive visual elements of its predecessors, the tulip (which dates directly to 1973 and in
138 Boston92 : Well fine. How far back do you want to go?
139 Post contains links United1 : According to the SEC filings that UA and CO have made the management team of the new UA will be made up of about a 50/50 mix of UA and COs current ma
140 Cubsrule : I have no friends at CO. I'm going one hundred percent based on the public statements.They may well be at least partially designed to appease angry C
141 United1 : Can you link any of those public statements...every statement that I have heard or seen by CO or UA regarding leadership has emphasized that this is
142 ScottB : I think this strategy in part explains the drive to consolidate among the network carriers. There probably is room for at most three large hub-and-sp
143 Braybuddy : The reason it looks odd is that the designers have decided -- obviously deliberately -- to use a scaled-up lower case u instead of a capital. It look
144 JBo : It's not the choice of the designers. The specific typeface used in the Contiental/New United logo has a tail on the capital 'U'. It's not the only t
145 FlyASAGuy2005 : Are we really still moaning over the livery? Well, I guess it's no surprise. Almost EVERYONE hated the DL livery when it leaked a few days before the
146 Braybuddy : That's a new one on me! I'm pretty well-up on fonts and I haven't come across a serif on the upper case U before. It's very much the exception than t
147 Airport : Honestly, I think the issue isn't that so many people hate the livery -- it's that they see a monumentally great opportunity to introduce a magnifice
148 FlyASAGuy2005 : Ok, I will give you that. Actually, I pretty much agree with everything you said. When it comes to mergers, you do have that opportunity come up with
149 Post contains images Braybuddy : You're right, the typeface used is Perpetua Bold, which does have a tail on the capital U: But it is very unusual. The only other typeface I can thin
150 GALLEYSTEW : I agree with you on that one. We have been told the UNITED brand is oh so important, then why not keep it? Better yet, come up with something that in
151 Cubsrule : Huh? The high level management people from NW (besides Richard Anderson) are in positions like government relations and legal, not positions related
152 mrskyguy : That's a matter of opinion. Not everyone is "wooed" or "woefully impressed" with snap, pizazz or any other by-word for a re-branding. United and COA
153 JBo : Perpetua is indeed what I was referring to. I'm sure if we were to dive into the catalogs of the type foundries like ITC or Monotype, we would find s
154 United1 : I'm sorry I thought we were discussing... ....would you like to change the discussion to who's in charge of the DL Brand instead of who is running th
155 Cubsrule : Apologies - I got two strings of thought confused, but I don't think it matters, as it seems to me to be one and the same. Let's look at DL... CEO: N
156 AirframeAS : I second that. The letter U needs some work. Why not incorporate the tulip in place of the letter U and modify the font a little bit and keep the res
157 CALPSAFltSkeds : I hesitate to say this, but maybe the "U" in the word United could be the tulip. Not sure what it would look like.
158 Post contains images AirframeAS : I just said that:
159 mrskyguy : It would look like United gobbled up Continental instead of a merger.. to the employees, at least.
160 Post contains images Antoniemey : And the MDC logo was, as I recall, a reworked version of Douglas Aircraft's logo. It's only been the same for >15 years now... I like the livery.
161 Cubsrule : ...which is sort of the point I'm trying to make. This is a practical decision through and through (and an eminently sensible one). There's little or
162 CALPSAFltSkeds : Would it follow then that if the UA aircraft were all painted and the CO aircraft were in transition between schemes, then the merged airline would b
163 Cubsrule : Probably, though the CO scheme is also probably cheaper overall, so that's another variable.
164 Post contains images kgaiflyer : **Bingo** Cashier -- please pay the man.
165 ikramerica : I don't agree. What I see is a lot of UA fans whining over the livery. Not many CO fans are. Why? Because UA fans don't want to lose their brand iden
166 Airport : I personally agree with your opinion in regards to the livery. However, I think it's very silly to consider all differing opinions to automatically b
167 TOMMY767 : I think it's silly that a beautiful livery from 2004 gets the shaft...but hey, that's just me.
168 Lemurs : The problem is asking people who have a vested interest in what they think of the brand though. To the average person they are trying to sell their b
169 ikramerica : I like the shades of blue. It just is so non-descript as a branding scheme, it's not the one to choose for the new airline. Beyond that, considering
170 mrskyguy : Not quite.. the loudest squawkers don't constitute a majority. That's a matter of opinion, because I completely disagree. And the alternative is what
171 Post contains images AirframeAS : I wonder if they are going to also keep the "Be Safe, at Home, Work and Play 24 - 7" slogan as well that is within the CO work groups that is be curr
172 TOMMY767 : The alternative is stepping up the game and paying a highly skilled team of graphic designers for a better mesh of the two companies then what is bei
173 AirframeAS : It may be pissing off their customer base, but then again the costs outweigh the benefits it seems. That route has won.
174 Antoniemey : They can pay an unnecessary cost to come up with a design that will be out-of-date in another decade rather than standardizing the fleet in a cheap,
175 Post contains images mrskyguy : Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm glad you weren't involved in the inside circle decision-making process of the merger if that's how you feel ab
176 Post contains images mariner : Oh. I find the livery quite attractive. But then I prefer the (very classy) Stephen Wolf livery for United to that bland blue blob they have at the m
177 TOMMY767 : Livery is decent. They got the branding aspect right by converting each station very quickly. It won't change. There is a lot of outspoken words rega
178 mariner : I think the Delta livery is okay, at most. But how do we know United/Continental won't convert each station quickly? mariner
179 Antoniemey : Any publicity is good publicity, as they say... the more people gripe about the new branding, the more said branding gets shown on blogs and news sit
180 Antoniemey : I'm pretty much considering it a foregone conclusion that they'll rebrand at least as quickly as DL did. After all, for the planes all they have to d
181 TOMMY767 : It's true, we don't know and will not know until it's approved. But if they are taking the cheap route out on painting it could be inferred that they
182 Antoniemey : The very core of CO's brand image is CONSISTENCY. It has been since the first day that Gordon Bethune was in charge and has remained that way ever si
183 mariner : I guess I'm not convinced they are taking the "cheap route out" on painting. Or - that they chose it because it would be cheap. I like the livery. I
184 Post contains images mrskyguy : Ha. The only "controversy" I've read of (and that's taking a liberal creative license with the word controversy) is places like this with individuals
185 justlump : That is exactly why they are going with the proposed livery. It allows them to quickly and cheaply convert the fleet, stations, etc. I thought this w
186 CALPSAFltSkeds : Remember that the DL/NW merger basically saw NW go away, looking more like a takeover than merger of equals. I think the northwest pointing red widge
187 TOMMY767 : I was taking the high road before and I'm going to continue to keep it that way. Whether you like it or not, it's a dicey issue because people (and I
188 TOMMY767 : You know that really isn't a bad idea.
189 mrskyguy : High road? It's a discussion (possibly now a debate) over an airline livery.. You can't expect to post your opinion and not have it discussed or chal
190 tpaewr : Amen!! Setting aside the delicate employee morale issues (which honestly I think is the biggest factor). The current plan is brilliant in that is doe
191 Antoniemey : That's more a matter of placing cost concerns over customer relations concerns. Every aircraft (save one) in CO's fleet has the globe on it. Excludin
192 Post contains links Rising : The deal is set up so that UAL Corporation will acquire Continental Airlines, Inc. UAL Corp. will thus own and operate both United Air Lines, Inc. an
193 TOMMY767 : Right but you compared my argument to the way a child receives presents on Christmas Day. A bit below the belt there for a forum.
194 Post contains links and images Schweigend : There is also the shield, which the tulip is meant to evoke. Both airlines have used one in the past: N157UA 747-123 @ SYD View Large View MediumPhot
195 mrskyguy : Not when you reread your posts within the context of emotion in this thread (a point you already made, not me). I think you are reaching a bit, but I
196 Schweigend : Really, it may be a nice way to include the tulip in their "new" scheme, and also cheap to do. I don't want UA's visual identity to be "disappeared".
197 CODC10 : A gross assumption that completely lacks any basis in fact. I expect a very rapid deployment of the new branding, and both executives have said as mu
198 ScottB : But the Continental brand already has a generally positive image among customers, and Continental's customers aren't all that excited about this merg
199 STT757 : What on earth was wrong with it?.. So DL got it right because of their manic management, rebranding their aircraft and facilities how many times in t
200 TOMMY767 : Why is that exactly? In the early 90s in was completely bare bones. CO didn't really put in the money to spruce it up until the late 1990s. My points
201 STT757 : I strongly disagree with that, I've been using Terminal C since it opened in 1988. I know it's not saying much but Terminal C was for a long time the
202 Post contains images kgaiflyer : Terminal C? Hmmm. I remember flying People's Express back in the 80's. I know their boarding area at EWR was on the dingy side -- not far from Army b
203 STT757 : Yes, I've flown PeoplExpress many times myself. That was the old North Terminal your describing, and the restaurant is the Newarker restaurant. Both
204 mrskyguy : Sigh.. ok. ANSWER:
205 TOMMY767 : Ya, you still didn't answer my question. My claim is about graphic design not emotion. You fail to understand that. I'm not a fanboy for UA, I just t
206 WesternA318 : Actually, I've only been a travel agent for a year or so now, I was at Continental before though, and every time I've had to take UA, it's always bee
207 Post contains images TOMMY767 : You mean the waterfall that used to have the glass florescent McDonald's logo on the other side? Yeah some work of art that was! Funny I do remember
208 Antoniemey : Nope... I see a stylized eagle.
209 EA CO AS : And the extensive filming done for "Outrageous Fortune" as well.
210 AirframeAS : IIRC, UA used to have an stylized eagle in their very early years. That was the point.
211 STT757 : No, there were several. They were grey, and quite comfortable as you could lay out. Now the seats are designed so as one cannot lay across the seats,
212 CAL764 : Ditto..Just look at my signature. I know a good airline when I fly it and its just as on-point as my watch which has yet to fail me. Scratch that..a
213 FlyASAGuy2005 : Why wouldn't it be their prerogative? Give one good reason why you would let a brand that is no more linger for no apparent reason. Not good business
214 mrskyguy : I didn't say it didn't.. what I *DID* say is that I felt Delta was less concerned with "breaking a few eggs" as it relates to the employees and custo
215 TOMMY767 : AMEN. I don't understand why some users believe that CO is the best thing since sliced bread and UA is satan himself. It just doesn't make sense to m
216 FlyASAGuy2005 : I amalways careful on forums as what people say and how I interpret is 180 so I never try to tell people what they meant. It just came off to me as i
217 MSPNWA : I'll tell you why. DL/NW didn't "merge" the best of both companies. There essentially was no "merger" outside of employees, equipment, and routes. I
218 Post contains images FlyASAGuy2005 : You really seem to be stuck on this livery and this maybe my fault as this is a thread about the United livery post merger. I just don't see how a pa
219 TOMMY767 : Not to mention other actually very positive things that UA has contributed as a leading brand: Economy Plus, New business class seats (identical to w
220 mrskyguy : So let me get this straight and see if we can get the heart of your argument without the need for 30 more back-and-forth replies.. you'd prefer to se
221 FlyASAGuy2005 : Believe it or not, there are people that feel this way. How is that good or bad? Seriously? We'll find varying opinions from all sides of the spectru
222 mrskyguy : Thanks.. I wasn't making a point or stating my opinion. The purpose of my question revolves around trying to flush out the opinions of the "squeakies
223 Post contains images RyanairGuru : Amen to that! At the end of the day we're not going to change anything by this constant back and forward between TeamUA and TeamCO!!!
224 STT757 : Transcons will continue to serve complimentary meals at meal time on CO, if this carries over to UA it means complimentary meals at meal time for Y c
225 Post contains links STT757 : UA has flyers in an uproar over their new Business class seats, while they may look similar to CO's new Businessfirst seats UA has definitley dropped
226 GALLEYSTEW : Every one s People forget, that UA has three classes of service, with economy plus/extra room, where as CO/DL/US have only 2. I wonder what will happe
227 FlyASAGuy2005 : How long before the merger had UA's seats been in development?
228 Post contains images globaldude : Although I personally do not dislike the planned new combined livery...here is perhaps a more blended version of the much discussed font [Edited 2010-
229 UAL777UK : Yes, its evident from the OP on that thread you quote that he has never flown in the new seats, he probably has never even flown UA so to suggest wha
230 mrskyguy : Excellent work! Though I still prefer the current version that Smisek's standing behind.. it's not as obviously different.
231 United1 : The seats on that configuration are the exact same size and configuration as on the 744...and that configuration has been out for two years. As UAL77
232 CO767FA : Since the "tulip" is brought back - where is the "Continental" name?
233 CODC10 : The UA seats are a bit narrower than CO's seat, and the cabin configuration is dense, but flat is flat. I'll take UA's mediocre business class soft pr
234 United1 : If you look at the numbers UAs seat is wider then the CO one of the 757 and for what CO has planned on the 767 but is narrower then the ones CO has o
235 TOMMY767 : I want to say 2007. I have heard the reviews have actually been mostly positive at least for the 747 and 763. People really have nothing to complain
236 CODC10 : CO has not released specs on the 767 seat, but I'm sure it will at least be as wide as the 777 since CO is going 2-1-2. Yes, the J seat is 23" wide o
237 Post contains images kgaiflyer : Absolutely, positively **not** true at least on domestic transcons I've flown *both* CO and UA transcon F class in the past 60 days and have had both
238 CODC10 : International First Class. UA's new hard product is outstanding, even world-class. The catering, on the other hand, might be among the worst.
239 UAL747DEN : I would like to see a merger or both brands. I think that would be best for everyone involved. Your statement in completely untrue. The people in the
240 TOMMY767 : They've cut F catering service back in recent years. Several years ago there used to sundaes on many domestic routes in F. Now it's cake or pie (tran
241 CODC10 : I think I made it abundantly clear that I was referring only to International First Class service. I am not discussing UA or CO's domestic F service
242 Post contains images United1 : I thought they had come out with the spects already....oh well in a few months it will be one in the same.
243 ikramerica : But unless UA charges less for their J product than CO, that's no excuse. True. I had the same meal on a CO flight EWR - FRA in J that I had on a QF
244 Kgaiflyer : I will concede that Air France's Y class trans-Atlantic product is superior either UA *or* CO.. It is the only airline on which I have ever gained we
245 Boston92 : Haha, what reviews? A bunch of people on airliners.net who have never even sat in the seat?
246 ikramerica : Well the food on the TGV is better than most food in Y on airlines. Event he 'sorry you were delayed/stuck 4 hours' snack box I got on the TGV was de
247 Post contains images kgaiflyer : Your point is understood -- except the part about how you went trans-Atlantic on the TGV. Trans-Atlantic was the thread I was commenting on. The expr
248 ktrick45 : After a bit of consideration, some thoughts about the livery. In the immediate aftermath of the merger, it should work well, and is probably the best
249 ikramerica : Hardly. I was comparing the food quality in France even for a basic thing like a train cafe car, which relates to your statement about the food on AF
250 Schweigend : That will be a fun showdown! Just like the Atlantic has become, especially with AA/BA now approved. Okay, so the consensus is that the tulip is going
251 kgaiflyer : We'll have to agree to disagree. I haven't ridden Euro-rail [other than Amsterdam-Utrecht when I lived in that area] since my student days -- and you
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