BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14315 posts, RR: 26 Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 38354 times:
Just for clarification, was this an aircraft belonging to Premier Jet Aviation, or was this a Beechcraft Premier?
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
justindpilot From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 38313 times:
2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8950 posts, RR: 62 Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 38090 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD DATABASE EDITOR
It was Jack Roush's Premier. I saw most of it until it disappeared behind some planes. He appeared to be at high alpha, way behind the power curve, and then went into what appeared to be a 45-60 degree bank. Wing hit first, jet spun around 180 degrees or so, and the rear section of the fuselage broke off. No fire. I watched the pilot walk out (very bloody) and heard that the sole passenger was ok.
airlinereporter From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 78 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 37830 times:
EAA via Twitter:
"Update on #OSH10 accident: ~615pm CDT, Beechcraft Premier Jet landed hard on Rwy 18. Two on board, got out of aircraft and transported."
airlinereporter From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 78 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 37581 times:
Official press release to date:
STATEMENT REGARDING TUESDAY EVENING ACCIDENT AT WITTMAN REGIONAL AIRPORT
EAA AVIATION CENTER, OSHKOSH, Wis. - (July 27, 2010) - At
approximately 6:15 p.m. CDT on Tuesday, July 27, 2010, a Beechcraft
Premier business jet registered to Roush Fenway Racing, LLC, was
involved in a landing accident on Runway 18 at Wittman Regional Airport
in Oshkosh.
The National Transportation Safety Board and Winnebago County
Sheriff's Department have confirmed the two occupants on board were Jack
Roush of Northville, Mich., and Brenda Strickland of Plymouth, Mich.,
who each exited the aircraft following the accident. Both were
transported to local hospitals, with Roush in serious but stable
condition and Strickland with non-life threatening injuries.
The NTSB is leading the investigation into the accident.
JBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4459 posts, RR: 22 Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 37310 times:
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4): It was Jack Roush's Premier. I saw most of it until it disappeared behind some planes. He appeared to be at high alpha, way behind the power curve, and then went into what appeared to be a 45-60 degree bank. Wing hit first, jet spun around 180 degrees or so, and the rear section of the fuselage broke off. No fire. I watched the pilot walk out (very bloody) and heard that the sole passenger was ok.
The Premier is a pretty easy to fly airplane for a single owner-pilot, but it can bite you...IMO it's an easy jet to "get slow" on you if you're not paying attention on final.
DiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1294 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 37276 times:
Here's to a speedy recovery for Roush. This is his 3rd plane crash, with the others in a Aircam and a P-51, IIRC. Lucky man, for sure
727forever From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 783 posts, RR: 5 Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 37211 times:
Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 9): Here's to a speedy recovery for Roush. This is his 3rd plane crash, with the others in a Aircam and a P-51, IIRC. Lucky man, for sure
Lucky man or horrible pilot. You decide. Just because you have money and an interest in aviation does not make you the best person to be flying the airplane. I also wish him a speedy recovery.
mrskyguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1203 posts, RR: 3 Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 37193 times:
Wow, what a shame. Here's hoping for the best for Roush.. he depends HEAVILY on his fleet of aircraft to support his lifestyle.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
JBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4459 posts, RR: 22 Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 37115 times:
Quoting 727forever (Reply 10): Lucky man or horrible pilot. You decide. Just because you have money and an interest in aviation does not make you the best person to be flying the airplane.
Well, to be fair, I think it'd be fine for him to be flying these airplanes with a safety pilot who knows what he's doing.
MSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1565 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 36933 times:
You start to wonder how many crashes someone can survive from. Good to hear Roush and the passenger were able to walk away. My suggestion to Roush would be to have an another pilot fly your planes!
lexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2362 posts, RR: 9 Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 36844 times:
N6JR was the reg. Man, I really hate to hear this. Mr. Roush was very nice to me when I asked to take photos of his jet in Lebanon, TN last year. All of the crew were awesome as well. A photo I have of it in better days. FWIW, Mr Roush is a HUGE aviation fan. He also owns a P-51 Mustang that he hangars in Michigan.
catiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 2274 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 36791 times:
Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 12): Well, to be fair, I think it'd be fine for him to be flying these airplanes with a safety pilot who knows what he's doing.
Quoting 727forever (Reply 10): Lucky man or horrible pilot. You decide. Just because you have money and an interest in aviation does not make you the best person to be flying the airplane.
2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8950 posts, RR: 62 Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 37011 times:
2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8950 posts, RR: 62 Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 36647 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD DATABASE EDITOR
Notice how the fuselage is also cracked just ahead of the windscreen. One thing I remember is how long the engine/engines were running after impact. They must have been running for 3 minutes or so. I suspect Roush was knocked out and thus, could not cut off the fuel and shut things down right away.
mrskyguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1203 posts, RR: 3 Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 36551 times:
My goodness, that's a TON of blood.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
Spacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2735 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 36396 times:
Quoting mrskyguy (Reply 18): My goodness, that's a TON of blood.
Face cuts tend to bleed a whole lot. He'll be fine. You lose a lot more than that during a standard blood donation. Though, the fire crew really should be wearing gloves.
mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9160 posts, RR: 14 Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 36378 times:
Quoting mrskyguy (Reply 18): My goodness, that's a TON of blood.
Looks like mostly a busted nose. It's amazing how the smallest injury to the nose can produce so much blood.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
JBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4459 posts, RR: 22 Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 36010 times:
Quoting catiii (Reply 15): By the way before everyone criticizes his skills, JR had 3500 hours in his Cessna CJ, 800 hours in his Premier, and also flies a P-51.
I'm not knocking his "skills" at all. A good pilot knows when to keep an extra set of eyes in the cockpit, no matter how many hours he has. Yes, this sounds like a totally honest mistake--but it could have been prevented by taking along a "seat-warmer" in the right hand side. And it's lucky this honest mistake didn't take his life. Heck, flying into Oshkosh during AirVenture time is stressful enough in a Cherokee. Do it in a high-performance jet aircraft, get a little behind the eight-ball, and it's a recipe for disaster.
I'm not saying he's a bad pilot--I'm just saying he probably doesn't fly enough (and concentrate on the "flying" part) to be single-pilot proficient in a jet certified to operate in the stratosphere at 450kts. It's not any "one" thing.
I'd say he'll at least get a 709 ride out of this...
TWAMD-80 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1006 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 35850 times:
I'm glad to hear that everyone is expected to survive. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that every year there is some sort of incident at, or related to AirVenture. That being said, I'd still like to attend as I have never been there.
TW
Two A-4's, left ten o'clock level continue left turn!
DiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1294 posts, RR: 3 Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 35661 times:
Quoting TWAMD-80 (Reply 22): I'm glad to hear that everyone is expected to survive. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that every year there is some sort of incident at, or related to AirVenture. That being said, I'd still like to attend as I have never been there.
I believe this was at least then 2nd incident of the day. From what I've heard, something else managed a gear up landing earlier in the day. And, I'm sure the Premier is far from the last airplane that will be damaged over the course of Airventure.
JBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4459 posts, RR: 22 Reply 24, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 35348 times:
Quoting TWAMD-80 (Reply 22): I'm glad to hear that everyone is expected to survive. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that every year there is some sort of incident at, or related to AirVenture. That being said, I'd still like to attend as I have never been there.
Saw my first fatal accident happen back at Oshkosh in 2007...two P-51's landing in formation contacted; the trailing bird flipped over and crunched the canopy on the ground--hard. It was a surreal moment seeing it happen...morbidly I think my first thought was "yep, he's dead." Surreal.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
25 F9Animal: Wow, that is quite a bit of blood. I imagine he banged his head pretty good. Hope all is well. If anything, it may have bruised his ego a bit.
26 ua777222: There's a closeup of his face as he's exiting the aircraft around the net, though I feel the photos already submitted toe the line for a.net's standar
27 airkas1: Wow, those are some excellent pictures Jason! Well done! Did you see the whole thing happening or did you get to the scene later? I'm kind of curious
28 2H4: Thank you. I'm not sure I would be sharing them if there were fatalities. I saw most of it, but the jet disappeared behind airplanes, so I didn't see
29 airkas1: Thanks for the story Must be a weird feeling, when you see an aircraft doing something strange, then loosing sight of it in the knowledge that it's 99
30 BMI727: Kind of, but a fighter has the thrust to pull it off. I'm probably telling you things you already know, but I want to give the best explanation I can
31 Jana: What an ugly dated paint scheme for such a modern jet...
32 airkas1: Wow, that's pretty detailed, but I think I get it. Thanks![Edited 2010-07-28 01:28:23]
33 NetJets21: Its scary to think that this incident happened with so many people and planes around. Could have been a real catastrophe if you ask me. I'm glad that
35 ua777222: It's a retro scheme that is similar to his P-51. I think it actually makes that ugly jet look pretty good.
36 soon7x7: Good pilot or not...three strikes and your out...take a hint...you can only be lucky in aviation just so many times...Glad to see no fatalities...Thi
37 Jana: No it doesn't, btw It's an ugly jet indeed. A short fatty zoomer with funny landing legs, strange long drooping witchy nose. The Premier 1 is not mot
38 ua777222: JR's paint does for the PJ what a little cover-up does for Ms. Zelweger....
40 airkas1: I received the image below from a colleague (someone managed to ctach a screenshot from the webcam). It shows the jet just before impact:
41 ua777222: Someone else listen to the ATC file from liveATC.net (Registration required) please. I could swear that he called out "Going around." On a serious not
42 soon7x7: The fourth window on the fuselage is actually painted on...(like Zelweger's face)...they only have three functioning windows each side.
43 calpilot: Maybe he needs to let someone else fly them!
44 eldanno: FWIW, on a local radio station (down here in NC, Nascar country) a former Roush employee called in response to the news and said he wouldn't even get
45 Scotland1979: The fire crew did the right thing to remove gloves because of possible some fuel on gloves that can effect the blood of the pilot.
46 NASCARAirforce: When did he crash a P-51? Which one? I remember the Air Cam crash which was in a lake in Alabama or Georgia and someone had to rescue him. He owns tw
47 727forever: This may be okay, but I think he would go through safety pilots like crazy. I would think telling the boss, "no, you can't do that" a few times might
48 planespotting: Indeed - but in lamen's terms, he got behind the power curve ... so far behind it in fact that he did not have enough thrust to pull it out without l
49 Highflier92660: That is a very concise and accurate description of this type of accident. Here is a famous video familiar to all who have gone through any amount of
50 catiii: Monday morning QB much? I could care less about the guy (I'm a Hendrick guy), but you're making a whole bunch of absolute statements about what could
51 2H4: It's a chilling, horrible feeling. I hope I never experience it again. In a nutshell - because of the way drag works, it takes a lot of energy/thrust
52 aerobalance: Let me get this straight, was he performing a normal approach or was he performing a maneuver for a crowd? The 'cat in the hat' uses up another life!
53 2H4: I couldn't tell if he was taking off, landing, or performing a low pass.
54 DiamondFlyer: Hmm, I swore he had crashed one previously, but I can't find anything for sure on it. Perhaps this in only number 2, but I had sworn he had 3 crashes
55 H53Epilot: Although technically, he was behind the thrust curve.
56 planesailing: I saw two fatal crashes in two days once at Biggin Hill. Absolutely horrific feeling and the worst thing is seeing the big black smoke plume rise int
57 PeachAir: Has there been any video of the N6JR accident on the internet?
58 BMI727: Yeah, but I though I should explain what it meant. I think that the "Sabre Dance" is a bit different than just getting behind the power curve. I beli
59 works4boeing: When he crashed the Air Cam, it was originally reported that he was in a P-51. This is probably the source of the confusion over how many airplanes h
60 DiamondFlyer: Yeah, I spent some time this afternoon searching around on the internet, and found exactly that. Still, a lucky man to survive two crashes, especiall
61 soon7x7: Sounds like the "Bud Holland" syndrome with the B-52 out in Spokane, WA. Every crew he flew with never returned,...they claimed he was a Titanic look
62 pliersinsight: tmz.com has a set of photos, including several showing the impact. http://www.tmz.com/2010/07/28/nascar...ack-roush-plane-crash-photographs/ You have
63 mho: Me too, but considering the zoo it is to get to, I would drive.
64 Flighty: A cursory investigation of the numbers reveals that there was a bad pilot on board. Investigation done
65 Gulfstream650: Still not reported on: http://www.faa.gov/data_research/accident_incident/preliminary_data/
66 catiii: Isn't that so witty. While pilot error may ultimately be the case, as in every crash the Monday morning QB's always think they have it right.
67 KELPkid: How has this affected the schedule of events at OSH this year? Nothing like a major accident (requiring NTSB investigation) to disrupt an event on the
68 moose135: Because an anonymous, former employee would never exaggerate or have an ax to grind...
70 ericaasen: Accidents happen at AirVenture all the time, so they actually have a plan for it. This particular one happened after the airshow ended, so the schedu
71 Maverick623: I dunno if it's the picture playing tricks on me, but it looks like one of the line guys nearly got clobbered by the plane.
72 KELPkid: Not really. The big concern many people have about large CFRP aircraft crashing is that you will get a hazmat situation from the carbon fibers being
75 catiii: The similarities between the 787 and JR's airplane start and end with the fact that they're both airplanes. Apples and oranges as far as anything els
76 KELPkid: Not true at all. The only dissimilarity I see is that Jack Roush's Premier I is allowed to enter a low-energy, high alpha flight regime (because ther
77 bonusonus: What would have happened had the a/c been equipped with envelope protection?
78 DiamondFlyer: Perhaps it would have continued off the end of the runway and plow a row of tree's out of the way? But honestly, it still would have likely crashed,
79 EMBQA: Agreeing with the others...?? What about the Beech Starship that crash years back. Everyone on board walked away and the aircraft passenger cabin sta
81 enilria: It may be that he a a great pilot, but either overconfident or a show-off. I know a lot of pilots who fly around in 737s all day with rock solid beha
82 2H4: The one thing to know about composites is that you cannot generalize them, their properties, or their failure modes. Composites can shatter upon impa
83 KELPkid: Hard to say. It could have, as DiamondFlyer said, merely displaced the scene of the accident if he was doing something really bone-headed . I'm sure
84 MD-90: I wonder if having Amsafe airbag seatbelts in the cockpit of his Premier would've helped Mr. Roush avoid the facial injuries he received?
85 soon7x7: If your a pilot and around planes enough, you get to spot and identify,"dangerous pilots"...we have several up here in my flight community, I even to
86 FLALEFTY: Back to the matter at hand. Jack Roush has been transferred to Mayo Clinic for more treatment. My guess is the 68-year-old Roush suffered a severe con
87 soon7x7: Well put...While composites have seen many applications for quite a while, their use in primary structures is rather new to the industry. As static p
88 Flighty: Maybe we can agree that pilot error might or might not have caused the crash. However, there should also be a better system to identify pilots who la
89 DiamondFlyer: Doubtful. He'll get a 709 ride on go-around procedures and landings at the worst. Its not like Roush only flew the thing a couple of times per year.
90 FLALEFTY: I'm sorry, DiamondFlier, when I referred to the FAA pulling Jack's ticket, I was talking about his SP rating in the Hawker. The FAA will probably allo
91 DiamondFlyer: For sure. The worst I see is the single pilot type rating being revoking, and basically falling back to a regular type rating. I don't think anything
92 soon7x7: This bring to mind a Citation Bravo I once witnessed in Chester PA, almost crash, 3x. I was down there to do a night shoot of a Hawker Jet but the ai
93 WNwatcher: So, most likely, will this be ruled pilot error by the NTSB? After all, it kind of was Roush's fault that he got behind the power curve. Its been year
94 2H4: One significant factor that often goes unmentioned is the element of "spreading oneself thin". A non-career pilot who upgrades to complex equipment a
95 2H4: Wow...photos showing the moment of impact: http://www.avweb.com/news/airventure...Crash_MomentOfImpact_203026-1.html
96 Gulfstream650: This being his third crash, one would think that he will work out what the common denominator actually is.
97 KELPkid: Someone needs to track down a Mr. Brian Flanagan and convince him to post these photos to the a.net database
98 TPA36R: Ok I have had enough. Does ANYONE read the whole thread at all? If you had, you would realize that JR has only had two accidents, not three. It was i
100 NASCARAirforce: He flies the jet at least every weekend between YIP and wherever the race is. On the off season he is flying around in his P-51s, I seen him doing cr
102 TWAMD-80: With that volume of aircraft there, I would guess that your statement will be correct. Hopefully you and I will both be wrong! I just saw a photo of
103 MD-90: But it does have a spun carbon fiber fuselage.
105 tpa36r: He was upgraded to fair condition earlier this week at Mayo and is steadily improving.
106 NASCARAirforce: Spoke to one of his P-51 techs at Thunder Over Michigan Saturday, he went back in for surgery on Friday for a lower spine problem that was discovered
107 jetfuel: Thanks for the update. He didn't look that bad walking out of the plane. Looked like a broken nose but I guess some G force may have been involved wi
108 Flighty: That would be scary as hell to be next to the rwy like that. It was barreling right at those photogs. Seriously man, caption that with "honey, maybe
109 jetfuel: Seriously these planes are NOT hard to fly. I have seen many a 210, Baron or C340 in hands that were just as dangerous. The problem with private pilo
110 MD-90: Here's a statement from a pilot that was waiting to depart Wittman Field that day.
111 KaiGywer: Haha, definately an "oh shit!" moment for those photographers
112 usafdo: Video...Video....where is the video??? This is one of the biggest air shows in the world, I cannot believer there wasn't a video camera there recordin
113 KELPkid: If there is, I'm sure the NTSB would be very interested in it
114 2H4: They may be easy to fly, but a swept, more highly-loaded wing certainly commands more respect than a simple straight one. The crash occurred maybe 30
115 NASCARAirforce: Someone sent me pictures of Roush's plane in the process of crashing. He got it from a friend who found the pictures online somewhere. I didn't want t
116 413X3: the photographer sold the pictures to tmz http://www.onlinenascarracing.com/th...om-jack-roushs-plane-crash-emerge/
117 aerobalance: Dude lost his left eye, never mind the broken back - tough blow. http://nascar.speedtv.com/article/cup-jack-roush-arrives-at-mis/
118 WNwatcher: "Roush, who has more than 8,000 hours as a pilot, said he hoped to keep flying. “I think it’s very likely that I’ll fly,” said Roush. “I’v
119 jetfuel: I think I would just be happy to be alive and maybe hire a professional pilot at 68. He can still fly from the rh seat if he wanted to. Not like he's
120 DiamondFlyer: Why? Just because an accident happened, he should be forced to hang it up. Perhaps we should take the same mentality about driving. Two accidents and
121 DeltaRules: Roush on PRN Radio's "Garage Pass" today said that he'd been cleared of any wrongdoing by the FAA & made it sound as though there was either a run
122 2H4: The preliminary NTSB report: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=CEN10FA443&rpt=p
123 dashman: Because he might be a danger to other people as well as himself. Time to hire a safety pilot to fly with him,
124 WNwatcher: I was referring to the fact that he has one eye now. His depth perception is almost non existent. The fact that he is know among his friends and empl
125 tpa36r: I didn't hear the interview, however yes I'm sure he was cleared by the FAA in the sense that he followed all instruction and published procedures. H
126 dashman: If he did lose an eye it is ulikely he will be able to get an FAA medical. The FAA is is pretty tough on vision. For a 3rd class I believe they requir
127 BMI727: I could have sworn somewhere that I read about a pilot who was blind in one eye. Maybe it wasn't true or they changed the rules.
128 dashman: The FAA usually doesnt suspend or revoke licenses unless it is a high profile case, or gross negligence. So he used poor judgment and bent his airplan
129 rfields5421: A google search and quick checks of a half dozen sites say the same thing as the flight school I flew with - 20/40. I've known two pilots with single
130 DiamondFlyer: I've got two eyes, with very little depth perception, and yet have never had a problem obtaining a regular 1st class medical. I'm sure there is some
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