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Are Flt Numbers "retired" After A Fatal Accident?  
User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 14
Posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2977 times:

Gentlemen & ladies...
Sometimes I see a reference regarding certain flight numbers that are not used again after a fatal accident. For example...AA191, PanAm103, Valuejet592, & TWA800. Are these numbers ever used again within that airline?? I'm a ops agent for F9 & I can get certain info within the industry, but the answer to this question eludes me. Maybe someone here knows? Thanks & regards.


"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineReggaebird From Jamaica, joined Nov 1999, 1176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2818 times:

Most carriers retire the numbers of flights that crash. However, I remember that when Egyptair 990 crashed, the flight on the next day still had the same number. That would have been slightly unnerving for me if I had been a passenger.

Thornton


User currently offlineLowfareair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2799 times:

Didn't TWA 800 crash once before as an L1049 or was that my imagination?

User currently offlineAnawat From United States of America, joined May 2001, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2780 times:

SQ. 16 was retired after the crash, I think.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2758 times:

SR111 also is no longer used for the JFK-Geneva flight.

User currently offlineGoboeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2725 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2741 times:

To whomever asked about the TWA800 crash #2, I've never heard of that. I do remember reading shortly after the crash off the NY Long Island coast that flight 800 operated daily to Paris for 20 years with no problems, so there probably was not another one.
Nick


User currently offlineBig777jet From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2704 times:

How do you tell me that American Airlines still using AA #111 from FCO to ORD on a 767? It is trans atlantic flight same as SwissAir Flt #111 crashed from JFK to GVA.

Big777jet



User currently offlineVirginA340 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2688 times:

Yes I can confirm the TWA 800 # was used twice One was off of Long Island and another was back in the 1950s or the 60s. This one involved a 707. I think the plane hit a steamroller after it rolled backwards. Alto of people died becasue they were too slow to get off the plane. I think this was at FCO or Milan. I don't know how the plane rolled backwards. I think the cause was pilot error, mechanical error or both. But when I heard that the 800 # was the name of the 747 that crashed in the Atlantic; I thought TWA was nuts and the mangement should have had their heads checked!!! My aunt told me a that if an airline used the # again they are cursed and that they'll suffer again but in a bigger way. apparently she was right as this crash and the bad PR among other things spelled the end for TWA. When I saw that that 747 reg # ended with a 9. I knew that the plane was cursed along with the same flt # they had used of a crashed plane with fatalities. TWA made alot of mistakes but this was horendous and quite stupis of them to use a flt # of a crashed plane.


"FUIMUS"
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8188 posts, RR: 54
Reply 8, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2684 times:

PA103 became PA3 shortly after the crash in Scotland. On the other hand, the crash nervous passengers used to try not to think about before they tried not think about Lockerbie was Turk Hava Yollari TK981, a DC10 that went into a forest near Paris in 1974 after the cargo door opened, and killed 346 passengers. That flight still exists to this day, Ankara-Istanbul-London (in the 70s it also stopped in Paris).

TW800 flew for decades, I have seen it referred to in many books published prior to the fuel tank explosion on the 747. In fact a whole book was written about it in the 60s, following a 707 and it's captain from JFK to Paris to Rome (great book, stunning b&w photos).

One thing that stops airlines from immediately changing the flight number is the fact that thousands of tickets will have been printed months in advance for flights, so they can't change the flight number overnight, maybe two months in the future at least.

What is SR111 these days?



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineBaec777 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1231 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2658 times:

August 2, 1985, Delta 191 Fatal Accident @ DFW, Thunderstorm ....  Sad


Baec777  Sad


User currently offlineNAAcrew From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 44 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2637 times:

I believe Eastern Flt. 401 remained that flight number right up until the time they ceased operations. And look what was said about that flight.

Bob


User currently offlineNBC News1 From UK - England, joined May 2001, 324 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2627 times:

Virgin A340,

You are calling management at TWA "stupid" for using the flight #800 on their JFK-Paris flight, when that exact flight number crashed in the sixties?

It's stupid to think that they should change it. The flight number had little to do with any of those accidents.


User currently offlineBaec777 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1231 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2599 times:

Virgin A340,

Flight Numbers can not be repeated for another flight, Fatal Accident .... Flight Number is off the course.... not in service again... TWA Is Not Stupid Anyway...!!!!


TWA 747 @ New York - John F. Kennedy International (Idlewild) (JFK / KJFK)

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Joe Pries





TWA Terminals 4 & 5 @ New York - John F. Kennedy International (Idlewild) (JFK / KJFK)

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Joe Pries





TWA Terminals 4 & 5 @ New York - John F. Kennedy International (Idlewild) (JFK / KJFK)

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Joe Pries





Baec777  Sad


User currently offlineJiml1126 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2597 times:

Airlines do "RETIRE" their flight number after a fatal crash.

There are few examples:

Korean Air retired KE800/801 when KE801 crashed at Guam.

China Airlines retired CI140/141 and CI675/676

Singapore Airlines retired SQ5/6

Silkair did retired MI181/182, but they also retired the whole 18x series and switch to 20x series.

But I think these "retired" flt number will show up again, perhaps 40 or 50 years later, when a airlines' flt numbering system is full
Airlines usually takes about 20days to switch their flight numbers after a fatal crash. SQ029/030 did not appears 20 days later after SQ5/6 crashed.


User currently offlineJiml1126 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2589 times:

I think the flight number retiring system also works for a code-share flight.

AI8005/8006, codes shares with SQ005/006, switched as AI8029/8030 after SIA announced that SQ005/006 is no longer available.


User currently offlineVirginA340 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2567 times:

NBC news 1 and BAEC 777; TWA aint stupid eh; you guys need to get a life; I lost my best friend and his family aboard PA 103. I would be very offended if that flight # was used again and For TWAS management to use that # again despite the fatal accident and they had more than enough time to discontinue the name but never did. TWA management is quite stupid. I saw on how the families of flt 800 were treated and thats how PA employees at JFK treated me, my famliy and other family members who wanted to know information about their loved ones on the night PA 103 went down. The both airlines brushed families off and treated us with No respect and I suspect you did not see the group of NYC politicians bashing TWA publically for their mistreatment towards the families. Like you I once had respect for them. But now they can go to hell.


"FUIMUS"
User currently offlineTriStar From Belgium, joined Oct 1999, 848 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2548 times:

Cedarjet,

SR111 no longer exists. I.e. the number is no longer in use with the airline.

Best regards,

TriStar.


User currently offlineCeilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2531 times:

SAA continued with SA295 as its flight number TPE-MRU-JNB after the Helderberg went down ... I flew the route several times subsequently.

User currently offlineSingapore 777 From Australia, joined May 1999, 1017 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2514 times:

SQ5/6 was retired as well MI185/186. In fact, in the case of SilkAir, the entire line of 18x series numbers, which was being used on the CGK route, was totally scrapped in place of 20x series, when the route was discontinued soon after.

User currently offlineVunz From Netherlands, joined Jun 2001, 360 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2507 times:

Flight 800 crashed twice...

Date: 23.11.1964
Time: 13.09 GMT
Type: Boeing 707-331
Operator: Trans World Airlines - TWA
Registration: N769TW
C/n: 17685/123
Year built: 1960
Crew: 5 fatalities / 11 on board
Passengers: 45 fatalities / 62 on board
Total: 50 fatalities / 73 on board
Location: Roma-Fiumicino (Italy)
Phase: Take-off
Nature: Scheduled Passenger
Flight: Roma-Fiumicino - Athens (Flightnumber 800)


User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3866 posts, RR: 34
Reply 20, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2486 times:

Sometimes the airline will retire the flight number for several years, but they end up using it again, although on a different route. Here are some examples:

AA Flight 625 (Providence - New York - St. Thomas) crashed in St.Thomas on 04-27-1976

http://aviation-safety.net/database/1976/760427-1.htm

Today, AA flight 625 operates from Miami to Providenciales, Turks & Caicos.

TWA Flight 514 from Columbus to Washington National (diverted to Dulles due to a snowstorm) crashed on 12-01-1974 while approaching Dulles, kiling all 92 onboard.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/1974/741201-0.htm

Today, TWA Flight 514 operates from Albuquerque to St. Louis.

Delta Flight 723 from Manchester to Boston crashed at Boston on 07-31-1973 killing all 89 onboard.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/1973/730731-0.htm

Today, Delta Flight 723 operates Savannah - Atlanta - Phoenix.

United Flight 173 from Denver to Portland crashed in Portland on 12-28-1979 after running out of fuel killing 10 of 189 people onboard.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/1978/781228-1.htm

Today, United 173 operates from Boston to San Francisco.

Air Canada Flight 797 from Dallas-Ft. Worth to Toronto caught fire and made an emergecy landing at Cincinatti on 06-02-1983, but 23 of the 46 persons aboard perished.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/1983/830602-1.htm

Today Air Canada Flight 797 operates from Montreal to Los Angeles.

Current flight information was obtained using flightarrivals.com

LoneStarMike

User currently offlinePHLyBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2470 times:

I know Delta isn't currently using 1141 or 191 as Flight numbers in our system.

User currently offlineSevenair From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 1728 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2459 times:

The British Midland crahs at EMA (going from LHR-BHD) flight BD098 is still inoperation todat, well over 10 years after the crash which claimed almost 40 lives wen the pilot shut down the wrong engine during an emergency landing-the plane hit a motorway embankemt, splitting in 3.

User currently offlineCody From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1932 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2458 times:

I know Alaska retired the flight number of their recent accident to honor those killed. As someone above mentioned, Eastern 401, which crashed in 1972, continued to operate the very same route, usually on an L1011. Briefly they even had it continue from MIA to Buenos Aires with a few stops. I too think this was strange especially in this case. I mean with three books written about it and two movies made. That flight number would have been gone the next day if I had run the show.

User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8188 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (13 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2429 times:

I don't see how continued use of the flight number PA103 could be seen as "offensive" to the families and friends of those lost on the flight that was bombed. Aren't some people a little too eager to take offense at the slightest thing, when no offense was intended?


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
25 VirginA340 : Cedarjet; PA was cutting corners on security; They were proven in a NYC courtroom by a Federal Judge to be guilty in the gross neglegence in the safet
26 DIA : Just over a decade ago, Continental Flight 1713 (DC-9)from Denver to Boise crashed on a blizzardy evening just after rotate. Not only did CO retire th
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