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Flights Between Saudi & USA  
User currently offlineUAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 1036 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 7 hours ago) and read 3065 times:

The relation between Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and United States of America is so strong in all subjects, especially in business. The USA is the largest importer of Saudi oil, furthermore Saudis are very big investors in Wall Street. In addition, USA helped the Kingdom to establish its national airline more than 70 years ago.
My question is, which airline is flying between the two big partners, now, before, and in future. Which airline first flew between the two countries, when did Saudi airlines started flying to USA.
As it shown from a simple research, the flights between UAE and USA are much more and have different variates. Is the Saudi market not attractive to American carriers ?

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2961 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 hours ago) and read 2834 times:

Maybe the US considers Saudi "unsafe" ?


A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineCOflyerBOS From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 hours ago) and read 2803 times:

Simple.

The market isn't there.

Additionally, travel between Saudi Arabia and the USA isn't easy. Visas aren't granted easily. You have to have a reason to travel there in order for one to be issued.

Going further, Westerners, especially women, are restricted in their travels once they get there. Plus, many of the spots that might be considered interesting tourist attractions are flat out forbidden to visit if you are not of the Muslim faith.


User currently offlineDl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 hour ago) and read 2755 times:

Quoting COflyerBOS (Reply 2):
Quoting UAEflyer (Thread starter):

Saudi Arabia has always seemed like an interesting place, but also restricted and possibly dangerous. I think the biggest reason is Americans seems to be more interested in visiting Europe and Asia compared to the middle east.


User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1071 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 hour ago) and read 2755 times:

I believe the last US carrier to fly there was TWA. They had a 6x weekly flight from New York JFK to Riyadh, via Cairo on 763 equipment. The flight continued for a while after TWA was bought out by AA, but ended after 9/11 when demand to the Middle East vanished.


Ryan / HKG
User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3122 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 hour ago) and read 2720 times:

wasnt one of the last surviving TWA international routes JFK-CAI-RUH? Flown with a 767-300ER, and I think Delta took over the route authority for a short time flying JFK-CAI-RUH with an MD-11?

Someone who knows better - please chime in.

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlinechepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6204 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 hour ago) and read 2681 times:

You also have to remember that even if entry into the Kingdom was easy you would be hard pressed to find Americans headed to JED or any other city in the Kingdom for a vacation. To put it in perspective- some Amerians consider more liberal UAE to be unsafe, you should the reaction I get when I advise people I have visited the Emirates. The first question is did you feel unsafe? don't they hate Americans there?- so you can imagine what some peoples opinion on Saudi is.

TWA served RUH for many years right up to the time it was taken over by AA, I assume it made financial sense for the airline to fly there as it never dropped the route-however it oped via CAI. The traffic between the US nd KSA is based on business travel (oil) and government/military traffic, to a much lesser degree religious travel. The two countries are linked by SV and the plethora of airlines that provide connecting opportunites via their hubs (e.g.- EK, EY, QR, LH etc, etc). The only US carrier I could see at some point going into either JED or RUH would be DL and maybe UAL (since they have gotten a bit creative with their IAD hub as of late).
If entry into the country were ever to be relaxed I would love to visit the Kingdom, I consider it a very interesting counttry.

Regards,

Chepos



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 602 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 hour ago) and read 2664 times:

As mentioned above, not much of a market.

User currently offlinechepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6204 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 hour ago) and read 2662 times:

DL flew JFK-CAI-DXB with an MD-11, it was shortly dropped right after 9-11. To my knowledge DL has never flown to KSA, I believe the only US carriers who have flown to the Kingdom are TWA and PA.

Regards,

Chepos



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 hour ago) and read 2628 times:

What are loads/yeilds like on SV's services?

I know they are a state airline.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24868 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 hour ago) and read 2626 times:

Quoting UAEflyer (Thread starter):
Which airline first flew between the two countries

TWA started service to Saudi Arabia (Dhahran) in 1947. It was then the last of about 8 stops on their twice-weekly Lockheed Constellation service to/from BOM. TWA was closely involved in setting up Saudi Arabian Airlines. They provided some of their first aircraft and pilots, plus training etc., under contract.

By the 1960s TWA was still not more than twice a week to/from Dhahran (sometimes just once a week) but using 707s by then.

When TWA dropped Saudi Arabia in 2001 they were operating to Riyadh as an extension from Cairo.

I believe Pan Am also served Dhahran at one time but not before the 1970s or later. For years TWA was the only designated US carrier permitted to serve Saudi Arabia.

I don't think SV started service to the US until their 747SPs arrived in 1981 which permitted them to operate nonstop to/from JFK.


User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3122 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 hour ago) and read 2596 times:

Quoting chepos (Reply 8):
DL flew JFK-CAI-DXB with an MD-11, it was shortly dropped right after 9-11. To my knowledge DL has never flown to KSA, I believe the only US carriers who have flown to the Kingdom are TWA and PA.

That's right... so I guess it was only TWA that flew there recently.

Currently only Saudi Arabian Airlines flies between Saudi and the US... this winter their schedule is as follows:

JED-JFK 1x/week 777-200LR
JED-IAD 2x/week 777-200LR
RUH-JFK 1x/week 777-200LR
RUH-IAD 1x/week 777-200LR
RUH-JED-JFK 1x//week 777-200LR
RUH-JED-IAD 1x/week 777-200LR

so as you see there a total of 7 weekly flights directly between Saudi and the US.

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3029 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (4 years ago) and read 2534 times:

Quoting UAEflyer (Thread starter):
The relation between Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and United States of America is so strong in all subjects, especially in business.

That that may be true in action, the perception remains the opposite in the United States. 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were Saudi nationals. Many Americans' views on the Saudi treatment of women (it's hard for a foreign woman to negotiate their way around it; women traveling on their own have need government minders or permission slips; etc.) are negative. WHen the Saudis have tried to open up tourism, they started the Supreme Commission for Tourism who had a website that said that visas would not be issued to an Israeli-passport holder, to anyone with an Israeli stamp on a passport, or “Jewish people.” My personal experience with the Saudi people, in Dammam and Riyadh, has been positive (very much a spirit of Ahlan Wasahlan), but I think that many of the restrictive policies combined with the perceptions above (fair or unfair), drive many Americans away.

On a related note, what are the prospects for Saudi to join an alliance? Star seems like the best option, given their service to IAH, IAD and the NYC area.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24856 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (4 years ago) and read 2468 times:

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 9):
What are loads/yeilds like on SV's services?

Knowing some of the fares, I would say the yields are not too bad, and load wise here was the 2009 data

JFK
Jan - 61.7
Feb - 63.5
Mar - 60.3
Apr - 76.9
May - 70.2
Jun - 72.1
Jul - 70.8
Aug - 72.3
Sep - 65.4
Oct - 69.9
Nov - 61.6
Dec - 77.8

IAD
Jan - 63.8
Feb - 52.9
Mar - 65.4
Apr - 71.1
May - 65.2
Jun - 66.1
Jul - 70.7
Aug - 83.5
Sep - 69.4
Oct - 61.2
Nov - 57.4
Dec - 75.4

Quoting catiii (Reply 12):
On a related note, what are the prospects for Saudi to join an alliance? Star seems like the best option, given their service to IAH, IAD and the NYC area.

Saudia has been an on/off partner with United's Mileage Plus, and till today has some pretty good joint pricing agreements.
However not being the most commercially minded carrier, I dont think an alliance is in the cards anytime soon.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineEightball From Saudi Arabia, joined Oct 2007, 280 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 years ago) and read 2450 times:

There's a potential for scuba diving tourism on Saudi Arabia's Red Sea coast, which could provide additional loads of passengers for flights between Saudi Arabia and the U.S.

Jeddah is my hometown, and these days I'm a university student in San Diego, CA. So far, all of my diving has been in the Red Sea, mostly in Jeddah and Sharm El-Sheikh. While the marine life on California's Pacific coast is interesting, I still prefer to dive in the Red Sea because of the warmer water temperatures and the impressive coral reefs which have a diverse array of marine life. I always look forward to some diving trips whenever I visit Jeddah.

Here's some information about Red Sea diving in Saudi Arabia:

http://www.scubatravel.co.uk/redsea/saudiop.html

[Edited 2010-07-29 15:29:24]


Follow your dream.
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8284 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (4 years ago) and read 2438 times:
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Pan AM served Dhaharan with its 747SP nonstop from JFK for years. IT was done in Joint Venture with Saudia which also flew 747SP's to JFK.

User currently onlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 836 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years ago) and read 2438 times:

PA flew to DHA with the SP until they were sold to UA in '86.

User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7453 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (3 years 12 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1957 times:

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 11):
Currently only Saudi Arabian Airlines flies between Saudi and the US... this winter their schedule is as follows:

JED-JFK 1x/week 777-200LR
JED-IAD 2x/week 777-200LR
RUH-JFK 1x/week 777-200LR
RUH-IAD 1x/week 777-200LR
RUH-JED-JFK 1x//week 777-200LR
RUH-JED-IAD 1x/week 777-200LR

so as you see there a total of 7 weekly flights directly between Saudi and the US

777-200LR is SV internal code for the 77E.



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineHiJazzey From Saudi Arabia, joined Sep 2005, 864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 12 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1764 times:

As others have mentioned: too long and too thin for much service. The business traffic is well channelled through the big hubs in Europe (which also help support direct Saudi-Europe services).

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
Saudia has been an on/off partner with United's Mileage Plus, and till today has some pretty good joint pricing agreements.
However not being the most commercially minded carrier, I dont think an alliance is in the cards anytime soon.

Actually, in an interview a month or so ago, SV's VP of Operations stated that they are negotiating entry into an alliance, and they expect to make an announcement "in a few months". Saudia is commercially minded, their problem is years of neglect and chaos. Turning them round and privatising them has proven slow and frustrating. It's far harder than Saudi Telecom.


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