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Gun Running To Manchester ...TSA Does What?!  
User currently offlineFlyPIJets From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 898 posts, RR: 3
Posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6539 times:

From the local TV station here is Raleigh/Durham land.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/8055884/

Raleigh man charged with running guns to England

short of it - Delta RDU-ATL-MAN - dude finally got caught. Well, then there is this little bomb shell at the end of the story.

Transportation Security Administration agents at RDU told federal authorities that they had found disassembled firearms in Greenoe's checked baggage on a May flight to Atlanta but allowed him to proceed after he explained that he was a salesman who had just visited a gun show in Raleigh.

What!?! TSA allow a disassembled gun in checked baggage because the dude said he had been to a gun show? I have asked WRAL to verify - but, if true. Wow.

Any word where these gun were going in Manchester? Running guns to England seems like an odd place to run guns.


DC-8, DC-9, DC-10, F28, 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, IL-62, L-1011, MD-82/83, YS-11, DHC-8, PA-28-161, ERJ 135/145, E-1
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6533 times:

Quoting FlyPIJets (Thread starter):
TSA allow a disassembled gun in checked baggage because the dude said he had been to a gun show?

You're allowed to. But you have to notify the airline. Presumably this guy didn't.


User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7525 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6462 times:

So if he can take dis assembled guns on board, what is to stop him re assembling them again.

Is this hold luggage or Carry On.


User currently offlineFlyPIJets From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 898 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6428 times:

Quoting tharanga (Reply 1):
You're allowed to. But you have to notify the airline. Presumably this guy didn't.

On what planet? No guns in the carry on - no matter what the state.



DC-8, DC-9, DC-10, F28, 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, IL-62, L-1011, MD-82/83, YS-11, DHC-8, PA-28-161, ERJ 135/145, E-1
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6464 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6428 times:

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 2):
So if he can take dis assembled guns on board, what is to stop him re assembling them again.

Is this hold luggage or Carry On.




It was checked luggage as stated in the article and the message. How would he have gotten to it. I don't believe it is breaking any law to have dis assembled weapons in checked luggage.


User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6087 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6420 times:
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Quoting FlyPIJets (Thread starter):
What!?! TSA allow a disassembled gun in checked baggage because the dude said he had been to a gun show? I have asked WRAL to verify - but, if true. Wow.

I check fully assembled and operational firearms all the time. You can even bring them out of/into the country if you have the proper paperwork.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 1):
But you have to notify the airline

And many times show the check in agent and TSA that it is unloaded and in a locked case.

Here is a sample of one of the cards you have to fill out. This one is a few years old, but I kept it as a sample to use for just such a thread. http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb309/NWA747/NWfirearms.jpg

Quoting FlyPIJets (Thread starter):
Any word where these gun were going in Manchester? Running guns to England seems like an odd place to run guns.

Not at all. The UK has just about banned all guns and I know there are people there who still want one and still own them. I have been offered a large sum of money for some of my not very valuable guns if I could get them into the UK. I am not going to break their law, even though I disagree with it, and risk going to prison for anyone.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineFlyPIJets From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 898 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6363 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 5):
I check fully assembled and operational firearms all the time. You can even bring them out of/into the country if you have the proper paperwork.
Quoting FlyPIJets (Reply 3):
Quoting tharanga (Reply 1):
You're allowed to. But you have to notify the airline. Presumably this guy didn't.

Oops my bad, I totally read that as in carry on baggage. Not checked baggage. Yes, of course, if done correctly you are allowed to check firearms.



DC-8, DC-9, DC-10, F28, 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, IL-62, L-1011, MD-82/83, YS-11, DHC-8, PA-28-161, ERJ 135/145, E-1
User currently offlineGT4EZY From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 1783 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6304 times:

Quoting FlyPIJets (Thread starter):
Any word where these gun were going in Manchester? Running guns to England seems like an odd place to run guns.

No offence to our friends over the pond but many Americans seem to think that all us British drink tea, live in castles and speak the Queens English. Manchester is only just shaking off it's "Gunchester" image and cities such as Liverpool, Manchester and of course London, have all had gun crime problems in the past and shootings do still happen.



Proud to fly from Manchester!
User currently offlineEdIcHc From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6254 times:

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 7):
No offence to our friends over the pond but many Americans seem to think that all us British drink tea, live in castles and speak the Queens English. Manchester is only just shaking off it's "Gunchester" image and cities such as Liverpool, Manchester and of course London, have all had gun crime problems in the past and shootings do still happen.

Not only that but it is the very strict controls on ownership of firearms that would make gun-running to the criminal fraternity in the UK a lucrative business.


User currently offlineFlyPIJets From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 898 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6109 times:

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 7):
No offence to our friends over the pond

No offense taken. I wasn't thinking about the stereotypes you mentioned, just that England is industrialized, well connected place. Flying guns on a commercial flight from the U.S. seems like a strange and very risky way to get guns to the UK.



DC-8, DC-9, DC-10, F28, 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, IL-62, L-1011, MD-82/83, YS-11, DHC-8, PA-28-161, ERJ 135/145, E-1
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7525 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5972 times:

Perhaps he was relying on the bags not been scanned on arrival.

User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6591 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5810 times:

Correct me if I'm wrong but on an international flight, shouldn't the check of the bag be in accordance to both the country of origin and the country of destination ? For things of less importance like unpasteurized cheese it's not really important, but allowing a gun on a flight to the UK (or most of the EU if not all, for that matter) just because it would be legal on a domestic flight seems illogical to me. The TSA asks a lot of measures to all security agencies in the world, yet they can't get this basic thing right ? Is this because there is no threat to the flight itself ?


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6087 posts, RR: 29
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5763 times:
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Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):
Is this because there is no threat to the flight itself ?

That very well could be considering they are not law enforcement agents. It is not the job of the TSA to enforce the laws of other countries.

As I said before it is legal to bring guns in and out of the US if you have the correct paperwork and those documents would mean nothing to the TSA, but it would to an actual customs agent. It would be doubtful that a TSA agent would even know the gun laws in the UK, or even the USA (which are by state and federal governments) for that matter. I have an FFL (Federal Firearms License) and very large book containing all of the gun laws in the USA. There is no way anyone would know them all.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):
Correct me if I'm wrong but on an international flight, shouldn't the check of the bag be in accordance to both the country of origin and the country of destination

It should be, but if this guy never bothered to tell the airline he had a gun in his baggage how would they know?



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5637 times:

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 2):
So if he can take dis assembled guns on board, what is to stop him re assembling them again.

Checked luggage, dude. Checked luggage.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 4):
I don't believe it is breaking any law to have dis assembled weapons in checked luggage.

It isn't. You just have to declare the weapon. Reply 5 has a good example.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineAv8rDAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 462 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5080 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 5):
Not at all. The UK has just about banned all guns and I know there are people there who still want one and still own them. I have been offered a large sum of money for some of my not very valuable guns if I could get them into the UK. I am not going to break their law, even though I disagree with it, and risk going to prison for anyone.

With handguns being banned in the UK (if I'm inaccurate here, please correct me) just the same as illegal drugs being banned in most industrialized countries, there will be a black market for such goods and some kind of underground trade network will result. Look at Al Capone during the Prohibition and at the violent drug cartels in Mexico today. Money talks and the right price will get you whatever you want, somehow.

I'm not at all surprised that this happened, but I would have thought customs agents in the UK would have X-rayed incoming international luggage and flagged it for a dump search?

What's the usual customs procedure in most European countries? X-ray everything, randomly select bags for search, or rely completely on the passenger's honesty when they walk through "nothing to declare"? It wouldn't take an expert to pick out handgun parts (barrel, slide, magazines, etc.) on an x-ray screen.



Maintain thine airspeed, lest the Earth rise up and smite thee.
User currently offlineEXCOASA1982 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3369 times:

Quoting Av8rDAL (Reply 14):
What's the usual customs procedure in most European countries? X-ray everything, randomly select bags for search, or rely completely on the passenger's honesty when they walk through "nothing to declare"? It wouldn't take an expert to pick out handgun parts (barrel, slide, magazines, etc.) on an x-ray screen.

On 100% of my many trips to various European countries, I have breezed through the "nothing to declare line" and went on my marry way with my checked luggage.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6591 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2933 times:

Quoting Av8rDAL (Reply 14):
With handguns being banned in the UK (if I'm inaccurate here, please correct me) just the same as illegal drugs being banned in most industrialized countries, there will be a black market for such goods and some kind of underground trade network will result. Look at Al Capone during the Prohibition and at the violent drug cartels in Mexico today. Money talks and the right price will get you whatever you want, somehow.

However there is a LOT LESS demand for guns than for alcohol or drugs.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22864 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2831 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):
The TSA asks a lot of measures to all security agencies in the world, yet they can't get this basic thing right ?

Why is it TSA's job to enforce British law if Britain has not requested such a thing? Or has Britain made such a request?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6591 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2792 times:

I was confused when I wrote that, too much domestic flying I guess. TSA and customs are two different things, and I only encounter airport security (without shoe removing, nor scanner, nor pat down, by the way).

You're right, they must not have asked it, however I think they should, and the same for France. I don't like guns 



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinesignol From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2007, 3003 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2776 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):
Why is it TSA's job to enforce British law if Britain has not requested such a thing?

By the same argument, why should Dutch security stop people taking weed from Amsterdam to the USA?

Quoting Av8rDAL (Reply 14):
With handguns being banned in the UK (if I'm inaccurate here, please correct me)

You are correct - handguns are banned. Shotguns and rifles are allowed but there are strict licensing proceedures. Assuming these weapons were handguns, as only criminals in this country have them, then they would be up to no good. If they were shotguns, then it could be a case some someone trying to skirt the paperwork, no more. Unlikely, but possible.

signol



Flights booked: none :(
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22864 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2586 times:

Quoting signol (Reply 19):
By the same argument, why should Dutch security stop people taking weed from Amsterdam to the USA?

Again, in the absence of a request from the US government, they should not.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5592 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2407 times:

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 7):
but many Americans seem to think that all us British drink tea

Well... you do. :-P

But yes, there are a lot of misconceptions about guns going both ways.

And at the risk of putting this thread slightly off course:

Quoting signol (Reply 19):
why should Dutch security stop people taking weed from Amsterdam to the USA?

Ah, the age old misconception about weed and Amsterdam. Just because the local authorities allow people to use doesn't mean they allow them to transport it, especially when it's pretty much common sense that just about every other place prohibits it, some to the point that if you're caught with residue on your shoe sole, you can be executed.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
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