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More Delta Service Cuts  
User currently offlineazjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4022 posts, RR: 27
Posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 16163 times:

According to the network bulletin on Deltanet and confirmed in the GDS the following markets will be axed in November: CVG-ROC, MEM-EVV, DCA-HSV (announced with the new DCA build-up) and as highly suspected DTW-TOL, but it looks like TOL will be served from MSP instead.

**edited to reflect the addition of MSP-TOL**

[Edited 2010-08-02 10:09:06]

57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6731 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 16045 times:

Most of these cuts are no real surprise. With the Saab 340's going and the reduction in CRJ's, I expect there will be many more cuts to come.

I do wonder if TOL can keep AA as its sole network carrier. It's amazing to see a market that once had mainline legacy service be on the verge of losing all network service....granted the proximity to DTW is just a killer.

Pretty much any market that is currently 1-2 daily on CRJ to CVG will be gone in the next year or two.


User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3847 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15925 times:

Poor TOL....... I wonder what the deal is on MEM-EVV?

User currently offlinenickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15875 times:

Looks like TOL will instead be served from MSP...

User currently offlinepremobrimo From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 428 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15839 times:

Clearly you did not read the entire bulletin then....

2 Daily MSP - TOL starts November 1

Already loaded on delta.com



Now You're Flying Smart.
User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3847 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15714 times:

Quoting premobrimo (Reply 4):
Clearly you did not read the entire bulletin then....

2 Daily MSP - TOL starts November 1

Already loaded on delta.com

Excellent, Good for TOL to keep DL.


User currently offlineDl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15562 times:

It's not surprising routes are being cut and added after the merger. Both airlines are merged now and it's time to trim some routes and add some newer routes

User currently offlineazjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4022 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15562 times:

Interesting! MSP-TOL was not listed in the highlights and for whatever reason, the bulletins haven't been downloadable for me lately. This is indeed good news, despite my foot in mouth disease I've contracted. =)

User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5309 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15327 times:

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 2):
I wonder what the deal is on MEM-EVV?

I remember back in the days of regulation that DL used to fly ORD-EVV. Southbound out of EVV, flights continued to Paducah, KY and MSY.


User currently offlineflyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15289 times:

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 7):
Interesting! MSP-TOL was not listed in the highlights and for whatever reason, the bulletins haven't been downloadable for me lately. This is indeed good news, despite my foot in mouth disease I've contracted. =)

As glad as I am to see this, it won't help me much as most of my travels are to the east coast. I hope we can get ATL...I guess it could've been worse.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 1):
I do wonder if TOL can keep AA as its sole network carrier. It's amazing to see a market that once had mainline legacy service be on the verge of losing all network service....granted the proximity to DTW is just a killer.

Well...with AA currently running 50%-60% loads, I would doubt it...but I keep hearing the yields on the TOL-ORD route are off the charts. A few samples of flights I've looked at have the revenue generated around $9,000 - $10,000 and the cost being somewhere around $2,000 for the flight. I still think if AA were to add one more flight the yields would be even better even though they are adding seats. I still think AA could do 2x E135 LGA-TOL but apparently they know more then me  


User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 15180 times:

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 7):
Interesting! MSP-TOL was not listed in the highlights and for whatever reason, the bulletins haven't been downloadable for me lately. This is indeed good news, despite my foot in mouth disease I've contracted. =)

Its between DCA-TPA add and ATL-CLE reduction.  

MSP-TOL
DAL3812 1530-1800 CRJ*
DAL4334 1920-2150 CRJ*

TOL-MSP
DAL4373 710-756 CRJ**
DAL4293 1830-1915 CRJ*

Opps by 9E
*starts 11/1
** starts 11/2



yep.
User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1920 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 15020 times:

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 9):
I still think if AA were to add one more flight the yields would be even better even though they are adding seats. I still think AA could do 2x E135 LGA-TOL but apparently they know more then me

Well, we all know that all teh airline route planning departments are smarter than us!!! LOL!...However, I would suggest that at least a single TOL-DFW round trip would fill a niche in that TOL market and maybe not dilute the ORD yields..and actually may pick-up traffic.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 8):
I remember back in the days of regulation that DL used to fly ORD-EVV. Southbound out of EVV, flights continued to Paducah, KY and MSY.

I think that was an old C & S route..as was FWA service decades ago. IIRC, several flights were DTW-FWA-IND-ATL and reverse and there was a MIA-TPA-IND-FWA and some times it went on to DTW, others it turned around at FWA. The folks headed to Florida in the winter loved that one or two stop service.


User currently offlineflyCMH From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 2293 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 14987 times:

Quoting premobrimo (Reply 4):
2 Daily MSP - TOL starts November 1

That is a huge relief. Upon checking updates in the GDS for November, I noticed TOL-DTW was no longer available. However, TOL-MSP had not been loaded yet.

I think this is a great reallocation of resources for Delta and for Toledo. Quite frankly, flying between TOL and DTW was not going to work anymore, both with the SAAB phaseout and the driving factor from Toledo to Metro. I'm glad that Delta took into account that a city of 650,000 is too large to quit outright or to be "satisfied" by serving its constituents via DTW. The O&D from TOL to MSP has been historically good given TOL's proximity to DTW, so that should be a good base to build on. Add on unique connections from MSP and I think Delta will have a winner of a route on their hands.

The only issue is that connections to the East and South are now a difficult proposition, not only for Delta but for anyone choosing to fly from TOL. My hope is that a connection to ATL, and/or possibly NYC can be established. Delta's super-mega-hyper hub at ATL can bridge the gap nicely for TOL flyers and, like MSP, has a decent O&D base to build on. The problem that could arise is yield, however with unique connections throughout the South and a myriad of high yield international destinations available through ATL, I would imagine Delta could weed out low yield availabilty quite effectively through ATL.

All in all, I think this is great news. All the best to Delta and Toledo on the new route. Here's hoping there's more to come.


User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3847 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 14700 times:

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 9):
I still think AA could do 2x E135 LGA-TOL but apparently they know more then me  

Maybe... but to keep me happy you should probably ask for one  


User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1089 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 14657 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 10):
Its between DCA-TPA add and ATL-CLE reduction.

anyway to put the summary out here on a.net?


User currently offlineflyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 14623 times:

Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 11):
Well, we all know that all teh airline route planning departments are smarter than us!!! LOL!...However, I would suggest that at least a single TOL-DFW round trip would fill a niche in that TOL market and maybe not dilute the ORD yields..and actually may pick-up traffic.

LOL! I know...I just like playing arm chair CEO (and also with excel..hehe). We had TOL-DFW but it didn't last because the yield was in the tank. But...that was at a 1050 departure out of DFW and a 14:30 departure out of TOL...If we're going to do that, then I would rather advocate TOL-MIA instead. I would think we could support more O/D to MIA along with South America traffic with the rather few Fortune 500 companies we have here. I still think we can compete TOL-NYC even with dumbass fares out there by Spirit.

For my travels sake...I wish they would've kept 2x TOL-DTW so I could get where I need to go and still fly TOL.


User currently offlineAA777-200 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 323 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 14484 times:

Ryan....do you ever do any work? Happy Birthday!!!!!

User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2858 posts, RR: 48
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 13269 times:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 8):
I remember back in the days of regulation that DL used to fly ORD-EVV.

Then again they also had L-1011 service from CLT-RDU which continued to ATL.


User currently offlinetyler81190 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 724 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 13209 times:

DL is also cutting the MCI-JFK daily service, which by the way, goes out full nearly every day...

User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 13126 times:

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 18):
DL is also cutting the MCI-JFK daily service, which by the way, goes out full nearly every day...


Full of what? BusinessElite consumers connecting on flights to/from the Atlantic? Or NRSA passengers?

These days, no airline is cutting any flight that yields a profit.



Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11222 times:

Quoting tyler81190 (Reply 18):
DL is also cutting the MCI-JFK daily service, which by the way, goes out full nearly every day...

Moving flight to LGA



yep.
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3827 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11054 times:

I think it's a great idea for DL to start TOL-MSP. There was a demand for this route and better westbound connections from TOL - in fact, JokeAmerica, I mean JetAmerica planned TOL-MSP before service cancellation because of the demand for the route. DL, with the endless connections available at MSP, will be able to tap into a big base. Congratulations to the Toledo/Lucas County Port Authority for finding an innovative way to keep the widget in a city served by Delta (and NWA) for decades.

On a side note, it looks like FWA-MSP is seasonally suspended as planned. Would have liked to see it year-round like NW operated it.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineflyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10150 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 21):
Congratulations to the Toledo/Lucas County Port Authority for finding an innovative way to keep the widget in a city served by Delta (and NWA) for decades.

They did nothing for this...unless I'm told otherwise tomorrow.


User currently offlineKingFriday013 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1304 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 9638 times:

Quoting azjubilee (Thread starter):
CVG-ROC

Meh. I didn't think that route did too well, anyway. I'd guess that was probably the least profitable flight they had in ROC, and they can put those Freedom/Chautauqua E145s somewhere else.

Although, this November, one of the JFK-ROC flights is getting upgraded to a CR9, while the other three are 50-seaters. But they're soooooo expensive!  

-J.



Tho' I've belted you an' flayed you, By the livin' Gawd that made you, You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 9495 times:

Quoting flyCMH (Reply 12):
Add on unique connections from MSP and I think Delta will have a winner of a route on their hands.

Unique destinations are definitely good, although TOL will likely lose whatever Toyota/TEMA traffic goes TOL-DTW-NGO. I assume those folks will just drive to DTW even though that costs Toyota more.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 19):
These days, no airline is cutting any flight that yields a profit.

If JFK were not slot controlled, I'd agree with that proposition - but they may need the slots for something that would make even more money. Apparently, MCINYC is working.

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 2):
I wonder what the deal is on MEM-EVV?

Given Evansville's relatively small size, service to both MEM and ATL is a tough sell.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 TOLtommy : You are correct sir. Unless there was talk with a corporate contract or a major travel agency, there was no local consultation. Looks like they need
26 portcolumbus : Wow. SNA/SMF/CHO/CMI/TOL all cut from DTW recently. How much more does DL plan to axe?
27 Post contains images GSPSPOT : It looks that way.... I'm pretty sure GSP lost all CVG service a little while back, but have begun seeing CVG flights again on different days on Flig
28 FWAERJ : Don't forget EVV's very high leakage, mostly to SDF, IND, and STL. OWB is becoming a factor, too, with G4 to SFB, introduced after EVV would only giv
29 dtw757 : What about the TOL employees? Can an airline really operate a station with just two flights and retain all its employees? Especially with a 7am kickof
30 United_fan : No more ROC-CVG,not too surprised since DL has cut back on Int'l connections out of CVG. I remember flying back from CVG on a ratty DL 732 in '95..
31 AVLAirlineFreq : Did CO ever serve TOL through CLE and/or EWR? If so, how long ago did that service go away?
32 deltal1011man : how does one outsource an outsourced station?
33 Kcrwflyer : HAve the airport do it.. something like that.
34 dtw757 : Well TOL is handled by Regional Elite Handling Services, are they not owned by Delta or were they spun off?
35 dtw757 : Yes TOL was serviced by CO through CLE on two occasions. The last time they pulled out was the same day Delta Connection pulled out before the merger
36 KingAir200 : DL still owns REAS.
37 deltal1011man : Yes they own them........Any work not done by Delta mainline employees is outsourced. DGS/REHS is outsourced work. Comair/ASA/Skywest etc. is outsour
38 tyler81190 : But what kind of Int'l connections are you going to get in LGA? most passengers on that flight are connecting to int'l flights that only operate out
39 deltal1011man : I'm betting they are moving it to LGA because they have very little International traffic. The little bit they have can fly to LGA then find a way to
40 nwaesc : With DTW-TOL going away, anyone know what the shortest route in the network will now be?
41 rwSEA : But the addition of HND, PVG, HKG, and ICN. All these pax can just as easily connect through other DL hubs. Makes sense to rationalize the network an
42 RL757PVD : CSG-ATL averages 21-33 minutes of flying time. Though unlike TOL, I have heard Delta is happy with how this short market performs
43 KingAir200 : DTW-FNT would be my guess.
44 VictorKilo : DTW-FNT is 56 miles, shorter than ATL-CSG, which is at 83 miles. (DTW-TOL was 49 miles).
45 PSU.DTW.SCE : DTW-FNT. FNT is unique in the sense that is has mainline DC-9-50 service to ATL yet so close to DTW. One could hope that TOL could see restored ATL s
46 KarlB737 : I am sure this change to MSP was specificially authored by Delta. Historically its the airline that has had to offer and provide possibilities and ro
47 FWAERJ : And the only reason for that is because AirTran also flies ATL-FNT.
48 PSU.DTW.SCE : Yes, true. However with the amount of DL (former NW) elites that live in Oakland County and Mid-Michigan, using FNT to connect over ATL is a very via
49 flyinryan99 : It's not going to happen any time soon. They couldn't make it work a few years ago and they aren't going to start it any time soon. There's no way th
50 Cubsrule : If I need to fly TOL-SRQ, why in the world would I drive up to DTW to fly DTW-ATL-SRQ if TOL-ATL-SRQ is an option?
51 jetlanta : If they wanted to cut, they'd just cut it. TOL holds no special affection for DL that CMI or any of dozens of other airports that have been cut over
52 flyinryan99 : Because it costs $100+ less out of DTW? While I don't share your enthusiasm I agree they have actually done a few things to try and make the market w
53 WA707atMSP : Although Flint and Toledo are about the same distance from DTW, the drive from Toledo to DTW is much easier than the drive from Flint to DTW is, beca
54 Cubsrule : Yes, though I don't know that I'd drive to DTW to save $25 or $30. And SRQ is sort of a bad example because FL flies there. If I were going to JAN or
55 FlyPNS1 : Even for JAN there can still be big differences. For a close-in booking, the fare difference can be several hundred dollars. For 8/9-8/12, DTW-JAN wa
56 Cubsrule : Seems like Delta is pretty well pricing itself out of TOL. You can't get the same yield premium at TOL as you can at MLU or EWN because the alternati
57 flyinryan99 : I agree...that's why I think DL still needs to fly TOL-DTW 3x daily to connect to the 3 major banks at DTW. While the flights may be empty now, I wou
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