AntonovA330 From Switzerland, joined Jul 2007, 317 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11565 times:
Hmm. I always had the impression they operated in the shadow of the big China-players like CA and MU. Also I'm not overly sad as they never impressed me with their service.
Who might fill in the gap?
Good day to you sir! Please turn left, your seat is in the first row.
Shenzhen Airlines! Recently acquired by CA, ZH has recently formed a special unit to evaluate the possibility of joining *A in the near future. It still can't fill the gap as Shanghai is way too important a hub *A will lose.
AntonovA330 From Switzerland, joined Jul 2007, 317 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11075 times:
Quoting xiaotung (Reply 2): Shenzhen Airlines! Recently acquired by CA
Oh! Let's wait and see...
Quoting SKY1 (Reply 3): 'm curious, are you a FM's Frequent Flyer? How many times have you flown with FM?
No, by no means frequent flyer, this is just my impression after six flights on FM while I was in China. Drink and food wise it wasn't any different to other chinese carriers, but most of the flights were delayed (up to four hours) and planes weren't kept very clean.
Good day to you sir! Please turn left, your seat is in the first row.
fpetrutiu From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 755 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10928 times:
Well since China Eastern owns Shanghai Airlines, my bet would be that Shanghai will be a new member of SkyTeam by the end of the year.
LJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4146 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10860 times:
Not very surprising news after the take over. Anyway Star still has a Chinese member (unlike oneworld).
Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 5): Well since China Eastern owns Shanghai Airlines, my bet would be that Shanghai will be a new member of SkyTeam by the end of the year.
Not necessary, FM will probably cease to exist soon (at least that was the plan)
AA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3347 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9204 times:
Quoting Cysafan (Reply 6): Good ... Throw Air China out as well !!
N593HA From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 152 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9204 times:
Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 5): Well since China Eastern owns Shanghai Airlines, my bet would be that Shanghai will be a new member of SkyTeam by the end of the year.
Sorry my ignorance, but will China Eastern be a future SkyTeam member? Is that official already?
EIRules From Ireland, joined Aug 2007, 641 posts, RR: 10 Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8569 times:
Quoting AntonovA330 (Reply 1): Also I'm not overly sad as they never impressed me with their service.
I recently took 4 flights with FM and found them to be quite good. Clean aircraft, on time, food and beverage service (even if it wasnt always to my taste) and very polite professional crew. Not quite sure what your experiences are but I would certainly say there are Star carriers with worse domestic / short haul service (SK, US come to mind). It'll be a pity if FM are gobbled up
Next Flights: EI DUB-LHR A320, BA LHR-SFO B744, UA SFO-LAS A320, BA LAS-LHR B744, EI LHR-DUB A320
einsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 2043 posts, RR: 6 Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8066 times:
Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 5): Well since China Eastern owns Shanghai Airlines, my bet would be that Shanghai will be a new member of SkyTeam by the end of the year.
Weren't they suppose to merge? I mean, I thought THAT might be the reason for the exit.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
EddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7176 posts, RR: 45 Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5801 times:
Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 14): Weren't they suppose to merge? I mean, I thought THAT might be the reason for the exit.
Yes, China Eastern will probably gradually absorb Shanghai Airlines, so sooner or later FM will cease to be. The new MU (i.e., the entity resulting from the combination of MU and FM) will be a SkyTeam member. Even if FM remains as a wholly-owned subsidiary or unit of MU, it makes no sense for it to be in a different alliance.
col From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2040 posts, RR: 22 Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5675 times:
I think the joining of FM and MU started already. Didn't FM move from PEK T3 to T2, I made mistake of going to T3, then was told of the change, quick bus dash.
I hope MU replace CZ as the Skyteam carrier in China, and maybe CZ can then go to Oneworld. Being a frequent flyer DL Diamond in China is a bit of a joke. CZ are members of skyteam, but with non of the benefits that you get with the other skyteam airlines. Star via Air China is superb, am Gold and they are truly behind the alliance, whereas CZ is not really sure what alliance means!!!
Would be good to get Shenzhen Airlines and Shandong Airlines into Star.
oneworld77 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2008, 238 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 5190 times:
Will anybody notice? Like someone leaving the Shea Stadium!!! Too many to care.
By the way, I believe that Hong Kong is part of China - unless China has handed it back to Britain? The home carrier of HK is CX and the alliance that Cathay is part of is........Oneworld!!
Therefore OW has a very nice presence in China via CX and Dragonair.
Quoting LJ (Reply 7): Anyway Star still has a Chinese member (unlike oneworld).
oneworld77 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2008, 238 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5062 times:
...a zone set up by China, who ultimately control the city!!!
WITHIN 'mainland' it IS zero. Irrespective, it is a carrier based in China. No wriggling out of facts I'm 'fraid!!
panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4584 posts, RR: 26 Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4859 times:
Quoting col (Reply 16): I hope MU replace CZ as the Skyteam carrier in China, and maybe CZ can then go to Oneworld.
CZ is not going anywhere. Both MU and CZ will co-exist nicely in Skyteam; they complement each other with CZ hubbing in CAN and PEK, while MU 'controls' PVG/SHA. This pretty much gives Skyteam full coverage of the PRC from these three hubs.
EddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7176 posts, RR: 45 Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3782 times:
Quoting panamair (Reply 20): Both MU and CZ will co-exist nicely in Skyteam; they complement each other with CZ hubbing in CAN and PEK, while MU 'controls' PVG/SHA. This pretty much gives Skyteam full coverage of the PRC from these three hubs.
I would not be surprised to see CZ and MU merged further down the road. The CEO of MU was before with CZ. They are cooperating closely in many aspects.
Quoting Reply 23): CX is Oneworlds presence in China. Simples.
Well, then it is a very limited presence; oneworld still needs a Chinese carrier other than CX/KA that is based elsewhere than HKG if it wants to be a player in China.
UAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2225 posts, RR: 13 Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3755 times:
Quoting Reply 23): CX is Oneworlds presence in China. Simples.
Which means Oneworld has no presence IN China!!!!! That is what he is saying!
chinaeastern From China, joined Apr 2004, 348 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3730 times:
Quoting Reply 23): One country - two systems, anybody? It may not be palatable but it is the real-politik of the situation. BJS appoints the CX of HK, for heavens sake!!!!!!!!
CX is Oneworlds presence in China. Simples.
what you are saying is correct as a statement but there is no relevance in the argument.
oneworld alliance still lacks frequency, coverage and connection options in China.
a.CX/KA can not operate domestic services in China
b.CX/KA's frequency from HKG to other Chinese cities(as the term you prefer) is pathetic compared with frequencies between other Chinese city pairs within similar distance except probably HKG-PVG/PEK and PVG/PEK are served by oneworld partners themselves anyways.
c.HKG's location means backtrack for AA, BA, AY passengers. QF and LA are probably the only carriers in oneworld who can benefit from HKG's location and yet we dont see LA or QF's code on KA flights. QF chooses to codeshare with MU through PVG instead.
CX/KA's function to provide oneworld meaningful connections is close to none at the moment compared with what they provide connections to southeast asia and in fact you will be better off connecting through NRT with JL if you are coming from north america.
AA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3347 posts, RR: 4 Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3578 times:
Quoting EddieDude (Reply 24): Well, then it is a very limited presence; oneworld still needs a Chinese carrier other than CX/KA that is based elsewhere than HKG if it wants to be a player in China.
Very true. Can a oneworld flier get from Shanghai to Beijing? I don't think so! Can a oneworld flier travel domestically in what is fast becoming one of the world's largest and most important economies? I don't think so! Hence, oneworld lacks true "Chinese" presence, while they do have a good South East Asia connections hub in HKG and CX.
mdavies06 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2009, 329 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3050 times:
Quoting EddieDude (Reply 24): Quoting Reply 23):
CX is Oneworlds presence in China. Simples.
Well, then it is a very limited presence; oneworld still needs a Chinese carrier other than CX/KA that is based elsewhere than HKG if it wants to be a player in China.
Whether an airline has a presence in China or not depends a lot of which sector you are looking at. For example, last week I was looking for tickets between PVG and NYC in Y. Guess which airlines had some of the most competitive fares? Yes you guessed it (or not) -----> EK and QR!!! and yes they are via DXB and DOH (the long way).
Aeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 2957 posts, RR: 30 Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2597 times:
Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 22): Guess which airlines had some of the most competitive fares? Yes you guessed it (or not) -----> EK and QR!!! and yes they are via DXB and DOH (the long way).
That's the reason the fare was low. It's not lake many people would be thrilled to be route that way!
In an interview with Air Transport World (June 2010 issue), China Eastern's LIU Shaoyong disclosed that while Shanghai Airlines will maintain its own market identity for an extended period, a number of areas are ripe for integration and colsolidation, among them marketing, IT, ground handling, MRO, cargo and logistics. He said, "I hope CEA's relationship with SAL will be like Cathay Pacific and Dragonair." He stressed that the double brand will be retained for quite a long time.
End of Quote
So I don't think that erasing Shanghai Airlines' branding was at any time "part of the plan" - not even at the very beginning when this merger was announced. In fact, it was stressed - on the contrary - that the SAL branding will stay.
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