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This Is What Mexicana Proposes For Crew Salaries  
User currently offlinenetjetsintl From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 593 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 17215 times:

This has been discussed in the Mexican aviation thread, but I think salaries like these deserve its own thread.

According to eleconomista.com.mx, Mexicana's pilots make an average of $ 228,000 USD/yr (that's $19,000 USD/month). that's about 49% more than the average international salary, and 185% above Volaris and Interjet.. Mexicana proposes to reduce that to $127,000 USD/yr.

Flight Attendants make an average of $53,000 USD/yr and the company proposes reducing their salaries to $32,000 USD/yr


http://eleconomista.com.mx/corporati...02/contrato-pilotos-ancla-mexicana

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAAExecPlat From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 636 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 17053 times:

Think about how much money that is in Mexico. I have to assume that the CLI is much lower in Mexico than in the US, and you can live very well in the US off this income....

User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3075 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 16824 times:

Quoting netjetsintl (Thread starter):
Mexicana's pilots make an average of $ 228,000 USD/yr

Does anyone have their pay scales that they can post?


User currently offlinenetjetsintl From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 16053 times:

Would be nice to get a Mexicana pilot to come on here and gives us some insight...... anybody outhere?

User currently offlinemorvious From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 707 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 15925 times:

That's one .... of a lot more then I make and I don't even like my job that much

Joking aside. I wonder what is better now. No job or a job with less salary. Who knows how long this crisis takes.

Edit: spelling

[Edited 2010-08-03 12:50:15]


have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
User currently offlinehardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 15868 times:

Quoting netjetsintl (Thread starter):
This has been discussed in the Mexican aviation thread, but I think salaries like these deserve its own thread.

According to eleconomista.com.mx, Mexicana's pilots make an average of $ 228,000 USD/yr (that's $19,000 USD/month). that's about 49% more than the average international salary, and 185% above Volaris and Interjet.. Mexicana proposes to reduce that to $127,000 USD/yr.

Flight Attendants make an average of $53,000 USD/yr and the company proposes reducing their salaries to $32,000 USD/yr

Any idea how the salaries compare to AM?

Tks,


User currently offlinenetjetsintl From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 15764 times:

Quoting hardiwv (Reply 9):
Any idea how the salaries compare to AM?

I was reading the "Mexicana files for Bankruptcy" thread and apparently, Aeromexico pilots make about the same.... so when the Mexicana mess is over, the Aeromexico circus should be starting


User currently offlineROSWELL41 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 803 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 15071 times:

I find it hard to believe that Mexicana pilots make the average salary stated above. Does anyone have a copy of the Mexicana pilot's contract? That will spell everything out. The media loves to hype pilot salaries...

User currently offlinenetjetsintl From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 13721 times:

Quoting ROSWELL41 (Reply 7):
I find it hard to believe that Mexicana pilots make the average salary stated above. Does anyone have a copy of the Mexicana pilot's contract? That will spell everything out. The media loves to hype pilot salaries...

Unfortunately its not media hype, that's what they make downthere... unions downthere throw their weight around


User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 13344 times:

WOW!!!!

If these numbers are true these pilots are living a very nice life! The are making MUCH more than their American counterparts and cost of living is noting like that of an American pilot. It's not very hard to see why the airline is bankrupt when you see numbers like that! Even with the proposed cut in pay listed above these pilots would still be making more than what 90% of pilots flying in the US make!

I would also like to see a real contract or hear from an MX pilot because these numbers just seem way to high. My knowledge of the industry leads me to believe that these cannot be correct numbers, but stranger things have happened!



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 13175 times:

I have trouble believing those figures. I think that the numbers refer to the max salary (the very top of the pay scale) not the average salary.

User currently offlineIMissPiedmont From United States of America, joined May 2001, 6332 posts, RR: 33
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12959 times:

The pilots are probably mostly living in the US but it's still high. The flight attendant pay, if true, would be extreme.


Damn, this website is getting worse daily.
User currently offlineusafdo From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12915 times:

I absolutely 100% don't believe those salary figures are correct----NO WAY!!!

User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11804 times:

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 9):
The are making MUCH more than their American counterparts and cost of living is noting like that of an American pilot

I've known several USA pilots that make over $200k a year, and a handful that made just shy of $300k. Granted they are few and far between.

Quoting catiii (Reply 2):
Does anyone have their pay scales that they can post?

AFAIK the unions in Mexico are very very secretive about that, and they are in no obligation to make that information public. I doubt you will find any documents stating this.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 10):
I think that the numbers refer to the max salary (the very top of the pay scale) not the average salary.

Probably.

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 11):
The pilots are probably mostly living in the US but it's still high.

Uhm right   That would be a heck of a commute.

I know many VERY senior AM and MX pilots which are making around the figures posted so far, they all live in MEX. I've never heard of any pilot commuting from the US to MEX. And these guys aren't living in mansions either or driving Ferrari's around.

Quoting usafdo (Reply 12):
I absolutely 100% don't believe those salary figures are correct----NO WAY!!!

I can vouch for them being accurate. HOWEVER, that's probably the average of the top of the pay scale.

And you all have to bear in mind, Mexico has much MUCH more greedy taxation laws than the US, so what they actually end up puttin gin their pockets is much less than that, though still in line with what the better US pilots earn.

[Edited 2010-08-03 17:44:30]

[Edited 2010-08-03 17:45:07]

[Edited 2010-08-03 18:28:38]

User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2184 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 11190 times:

Quoting AAExecPlat (Reply 1):
Think about how much money that is in Mexico. I have to assume that the CLI is much lower in Mexico than in the US

Not so sure. Considering how much more expensive are many consumption goods in Mexico vs the US (they can be close to double in particular for electronics), and also not neglecting the fact that people with such high salaries generally end up living in high-security, fenced and guarded residential areas, which i assume in no way are cheap housing plans. In fact i'd be curious to see numbers here.
There is a difference i think between being in Mexico as a tourist (cheap bars, cheap hotels, cheap food, cheap buses, etc..) and living in Mexico making lots of money living a modern life style, which is everyday business in the US but remains a relatively small market in a country such as Mexico.



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineSanti319 From Mexico, joined Dec 2005, 403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 11001 times:

Quoting usafdo (Reply 12):
I absolutely 100% don't believe those salary figures are correct----NO WAY!!!

I know it is a total lie, I am inflight for an American Airline and I know MX cabin crews and I make wayyy more than them and I am not in the 50K range, also I have family members in AM (Captn for 10+ years) and they DO NOT make any amount like that.

So can we just ignore whoever lied creating this topic...


User currently offlineAviacsa737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10981 times:

Quoting AAExecPlat (Reply 1):
Think about how much money that is in Mexico. I have to assume that the CLI is much lower in Mexico than in the US, and you can live very well in the US off this income....

And think how much money management makes...not to mention do you think they will slash their salaries? Funny how employees always have to make the sacrifices but management cant. IF THEY really cared about being solvent they wouldnt ask the employees to take pay cuts while keeping their HUGE salaries. Now that they have declared bankruptcy to get around labor, id like to see how management deals with disgrunteled and understandably unhappy employees. If i had my salary cut 40% i assure you i wouldnt bother doing my job well, especially if i knew the big wigs were making bank. They can't possibly expect to keep their labor force with such a drastic reduction. Thats my two cents.

[Edited 2010-08-03 19:05:35]

[Edited 2010-08-03 19:08:35]

User currently offlinefly727 From Mexico, joined Jul 2003, 1789 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10553 times:

Figures are incorrect. Such numbers might show -if true- the highest pay scale for a +30 year captain. The comparison between the income of a low-cost (or high-efficiency airlines as they call them selves) such as Volaris or Interjet is actually quite similar for a same-position, same-seniority pilot.

Mexicana is in financial troubles due to constant failures in administration and commercial issues. Blaming it on the crew members is just an easy way to catch media attention, to kill the crew's drive in the upcoming contractual revisions and somewhat hide the concessions in labor contracts which -for pilots only- saved the company 200 million dollars a few years back when the new owners came (much more for which they bought it). Important is to mention, that those 200 million dollars were demanded to the pilots in order to give viability to the "healing" and expansion project which the new entrepreneurs presented as they took office. It was an "You-help-me, you-keep-your-job" situation.

Reading the fine print is essential here, there are two issues which should not be overseen:

1. How is it possible that just two months ago, Mexicana happily announced strong, definite recover? What happened in such a short time? Why creating this victimizing scenario when labor contracts revisions are due?

2. Mexico's downgrade to Cat 2 by FAA in a moment in which most of the airlines are giving healthy profits, opening the way for American carriers to bite a bigger piece of the huge market share Mexicana possesses. How could this be related to the theatrical Mexicana "demise"? it is called "a-two-bird-kill-on-a-single-shot operation". Return of political favors both sides of the border aggravates this soap opera.

Stay informed, but WELL informed.

RM  



There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
User currently offlinecaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9901 times:

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 14):
here is a difference i think between being in Mexico as a tourist (cheap bars, cheap hotels, cheap food, cheap buses, etc..) and living in Mexico making lots of money living a modern life style, which is everyday business in the US but remains a relatively small market in a country such as Mexico.

As a foreigner living in Mexico, I can tell you Mexico is cheaper to live in that the US. Cost of living here, where it is important (housing and food) is way cheaper. If you live in a smaller city even better. I have seen pretty decent houses in well protected gated communities, 4 bedrooms, swimming pool, etc in the range of 1.5 to 2 million mexican pesos, that is around but under 200,000 USD. Granted my expert experience in the US is NY, so the comparison is a bit off. But under general terms the cost of living in Mexico is cheaper than the US. The difference really likes in certain things such as cars and electronics due to the high import tax.

But those salaries posted are on the high side, I don´t think they represent the general pilot population of the airline who in any event are still well paid.



There is something special about planes....
User currently offlinefreeze3192 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9855 times:

If those figures are correct, kudos to the Mexicana pilots. They're being paid what they're worth.

A good pilot is worth his weight in gold. And then some.



"A passenger bets his life that his pilot is a worthy heir to an ancient tradition of excellence and professionalism."
User currently offlinebaw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2028 posts, RR: 27
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9806 times:

Quoting fly727 (Reply 17):
Mexicana is in financial troubles due to constant failures in administration and commercial issues. Blaming it on the crew members is just an easy way to catch media attention, to kill the crew's drive in the upcoming contractual revisions and somewhat hide the concessions in labor contracts which -for pilots only- saved the company 200 million dollars a few years back when the new owners came (much more for which they bought it). Important is to mention, that those 200 million dollars were demanded to the pilots in order to give viability to the "healing" and expansion project which the new entrepreneurs presented as they took office. It was an "You-help-me, you-keep-your-job" situation.

Reading the fine print is essential here, there are two issues which should not be overseen:

1. How is it possible that just two months ago, Mexicana happily announced strong, definite recover? What happened in such a short time? Why creating this victimizing scenario when labor contracts revisions are due?

2. Mexico's downgrade to Cat 2 by FAA in a moment in which most of the airlines are giving healthy profits, opening the way for American carriers to bite a bigger piece of the huge market share Mexicana possesses. How could this be related to the theatrical Mexicana "demise"? it is called "a-two-bird-kill-on-a-single-shot operation". Return of political favors both sides of the border aggravates this soap opera.

Let's take the first statement first: On this point, I am in full agreement. Mexicana's management either was hiding the fact the carrier was doing poorly or they were using it as leverage in their labor negotiations. I suspect the former is true, not so much the latter. This is not to say that labor costs have to come down, but clearly something is rotten in Mexico City.

I don't doubt the fact that the US airlines are in bed with FAA, but to the extent that it would harm another country's safety status is a stretch. My sense is that the truth is somewhere in the middle. If indeed Mexicana were having financial problems, then it isn't a stretch to believe that MX would attempt to delay certain things in order to contain their costs internally. That would certainly get the pilots screaming.

There are many things that concern me about Mexicana, fleet management, route mix, alliance issues, but things are rough everywhere...most certainly in Mexico.

It sounds like MX needs new leadership...

baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlineskyone From Mexico, joined Feb 2001, 438 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9656 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 2):
Does anyone have their pay scales that they can post?

I am still wating for any MX pilot to state how much money they make a month, but only the Management Team from MX has stated the average salary of a Captain and made it public to the news.

If there is a MX or AM pilot in the forum, can you please share with us the pay scale from ASPA contract of AM or MX and any given perks you have?

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 13):
I know many VERY senior AM and MX pilots which are making around the figures posted so far, they all live in MEX. I've never heard of any pilot commuting from the US to MEX. And these guys aren't living in mansions either or driving Ferrari's around.

But you have not seen their amazing second homes in beautiful places in Morelos and Guerrero State. Remember that buying a Ferrari in Mexico and not having bodyguards is a message to being kidnaped. In Mexico people drive armoured cars that cost exactly the same (in some cases) as a Ferrari or a Lamborghini, but you sometimes can´t tell the difference with a non armored one. So many people with a lot of money drive normal cars in order not to show they have money (Uper Middle Class).

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 13):
And you all have to bear in mind, Mexico has much MUCH more greedy taxation laws than the US, so what they actually end up puttin gin their pockets is much less than that, though still in line with what the better US pilots earn.

If by greedy you mean higher than the USA, I think you are wrong. Europe is where you can get taken more than 50% of you salary to pay for Social Security in some countries, but in Mexico, the highest tax bracket will never surpass 32% and is going down every year, because we have a VAT that use to be 15% and now is 16%, in order to charge all the people in the country that do not pay taxes and sell stuff in the streets. So direct taxes are lower and indirect taxes are higher in order to tax everyone, even those who don´t pay ISR (salary taxes).

Quoting Santi319 (Reply 15):
I know it is a total lie, I am inflight for an American Airline and I know MX cabin crews and I make wayyy more than them and I am not in the 50K range, also I have family members in AM (Captn for 10+ years) and they DO NOT make any amount like that.

So can we just ignore whoever lied creating this topic...

But do you have a pay scale or the Union contract to probe it? Up until now, no one has been able to probe wrong what the management team stated as being the salary of a Senior Captain flying and Airbus for MX. Until then, we will ignore the topic, not before.


User currently offlineAviacsa737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9496 times:

Quoting freeze3192 (Reply 19):
If those figures are correct, kudos to the Mexicana pilots. They're being paid what they're worth.

A good pilot is worth his weight in gold. And then some.

Very true. Agree 100%.   I generally am not a fan of anyone making such huge salaries so long as there is poverty around, however people like pilots and doctors, people who have lives in their hands should NOT be taken for granted, and deserve just compensation. People seem to forget that even with tons of capital, you cant have an airline without the pilot. And while no pilot would compromise security due to pay issues, loosing so much compared to whats being made, feeling cheated and exploited, the poor morale that comes from such a situation all add to stress, wich is something one wants to minimise in the cock pit.


User currently offlinefly727 From Mexico, joined Jul 2003, 1789 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9456 times:

Quoting baw716 (Reply 20):
I don't doubt the fact that the US airlines are in bed with FAA, but to the extent that it would harm another country's safety status is a stretch.

I appreciate non-biased and objective point of views such as yours, yet I am still chewing the facts with a grain of salt (perhaps paranoia now). We shouldn't forget that our industry depends so very much in whatever mood the FAA swings; to recall what was said a few years back Mexico is -more over aviation-wise- the backyard of the US.

RM.



There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4751 posts, RR: 18
Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9291 times:

Quoting freeze3192 (Reply 19):



If those figures are correct, kudos to the Mexicana pilots. They're being paid what they're worth.

A good pilot is worth his weight in gold. And then some.

Finally, a rational voice.


I could not agree with you more.



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
25 Post contains links Fly2HMO : I'll give you that, though Cuernavaca has been turning into a dump lately, IMO. Actually, from what it looks like, Uncle Sam is only a few percentage
26 UAL747DEN : Yeah its possible, sure, but this is being thrown around as an average, I don't think so. I love how you can come out right away with no facts and sa
27 Netjetsintl : Same here, any MX pilots outhere?? it is none of our business how much they make and they DO NOT need to apologize to anybody for being well compensa
28 wolflair : I am certain a pilot will claim they do not earn those figures. However, management has not been talking about "take home pay". I am sure a pilot doe
29 Post contains images MaverickM11 : They can remember that when they don't have a job. It's like the joke that if you could buy an Argentine for what they are worth and sell them for wh
30 Post contains images Aviacsa737 : So your saying management deserves to be paid those salaries even though the company THEY led is in Bankruptcy? Yeah, i don't think that fly well wit
31 MaverickM11 : With that kind of thinking it's no wonder MX is where it is. $140K in Mexico is peanuts? I'll take peanuts.
32 Aviacsa737 : Its peanuts compared to what management, the people who lead the company and should be held responsible for the sucess or failure of the company, mak
33 MaverickM11 : I don't know what MX/AM leadership makes, but at most airlines $140K would put you above just about anyone.
34 IMissPiedmont : You don't know many airline pilots do you.
35 Fly2HMO : I know plenty, but not one of the guys I know from either AM or MX do international commutes. And yes I have heard of some pilots commuting across bo
36 bioyuki : Not actual numbers but to quote the Wall Street Journal: "Mexicana attributes its woes to contractual agreements with two main labor unions. The compa
37 Aesma : Are those numbers what the pilots get, or what they cost ? Does it include taxes, pension benefits ?
38 wolflair : As per my previous post, it is very likely these numbers include pensions, etc, so it is what they cost to the airline.
39 ghost77 : Costs are similar to MX. And sometimes even higher, specially 777 pilots. Yes, they´re MAX salary and it includes pensions and no Tax deduction. Eve
40 Post contains images captaink : My uncle just sold his house on Long Island for 600,000USD, a 3 bedroom, two story (relatively normal house). Now I am currently in Guadalajara (best
41 ghost77 : It's only MEX. Same as AM. But some MX pilots live in GDL, MTY, CUN outside Mexico is SAT and other parts of TX but mainly SAT. I know there's a capt
42 Fly2HMO : True. But you can definitely consider MTY, GDL, TIJ, CUN and even HMO as strong focus cities.
43 Post contains links skyone : Wow, look at this! the head of the Union just said to the press that they blame MX´s management team for publishing their salaries as they now fear
44 koruman : There is a strong cultural slant on this thread, with it being dominated by armchair executives from one country who think it is OK to turn your staff
45 skyone : So I guess you haven´t seen the stories from al the people from the United States who lost their jobs, their houses, their cars, their credit cards,
46 Post contains images Aviacsa737 : Yep, they call that fiscal conservatism , and the main concern is to get as much out of labor, while paying as little as possible, nothing if possibl
47 timetofly : How about the circumstance of the employer -CMA in this case- going bankrupt and all its assets being taken away by ILFC, GECAS, Instituto Mexicano d
48 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Of course, it's always management's fault. Maybe if the unions took an active role in managing expectations and their contribution to the company, th
49 PeterPuck : Do you know that to be the case or are you just making that up?
50 Post contains images Aviacsa737 : Well, see heres the thing, im only forming my opinion based on what i see here in the USA, so i cant say for certain it will happen with MX, but if y
51 MaverickM11 : No, as I said, AM/MX are not known for their management either. Yes they are. Making $150K in the US puts you in the top 5%, never mind making the sa
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