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Mexicana Files For Bankruptcy In U.S And Mexico  
User currently offlineKFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1226 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 21476 times:

Mexicana has filed for both Mexican bankruptcy protection and U.S Chapter 15 protection. Chapter 15, if recognized, puts a brake on creditor squeezings in U.S.
Much of the rest is already known I believe..
Can't see this posted on any aviation media yet

Reuters : http://in.reuters.com/article/idINN0315249420100803

Sorry if this has been posted already

[Edited 2010-08-04 17:59:37 by srbmod]


The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
100 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinenetjetsintl From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 21472 times:

Well there you go, the Mexicana brand, 89 years of flying history in jeopardy.......

How did everything go so wrong so quick? or is it that they were able to hide their problems from the public???

if the Mexicana brand disapears, I have only one word for that, BARBARIC.....


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5107 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 21326 times:

Best wishes to the employees of MX.

Is there ANY likeyhood that LAN might step in and help reorganize their alliance partner and have it emerge as LAN Mexicana? Just an idea....



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11604 posts, RR: 61
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 21336 times:

Hopefully the brand and the core of the network will be salvagable - but I gather (from what I've read here) - that that largely depends more on the political situation in D.F., and how successful Mexican government officials are in pushing Mexicana to merge with Aeromexico, in which case it may all be over.

Alternatively - could Mexicana basically shut down the core company legally/financially and hand the name, network, aircraft (the ones not yet repossessed) over to one of the smaller, low-cost subsidiaries like Click, etc. (a la Sabena-DAT and Swissair-Crossair)?


User currently offlineKFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 21337 times:

It really is historical, with Charles Lindbergh having piloted the first flight. Reportedly they have over $1b in debts.


The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 21145 times:

From an article:

"The company is proposing new labor pacts with cuts of 41% and 39% in wages and fringe benefits for pilots and flight attendants, respectively. The proposal also calls for additional cost-cutting measures, including downsizing 40% of the airline's pilots and flight attendants."

Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-mar...-15-bankruptcy-in-us#ixzz0vYTX5YY4


Now that is what AA needs to do...    



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17489 posts, RR: 45
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 20992 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 3):
Alternatively - could Mexicana basically shut down the core company legally/financially and hand the name, network, aircraft (the ones not yet repossessed) over to one of the smaller, low-cost subsidiaries like Click, etc. (a la Sabena-DAT and Swissair-Crossair)?

They were considering selling the carrier to labor, minus the Mexicana brand, for 1 peso plus debts



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5430 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 20844 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 5):
Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-mar...X5YY4

This statement was in this article:

Quote:
"Mexicana, ...says it intends to keep flying, with some minor adjustments to its international schedule, during its restructuring."

I hope they will be able to keep flying with some stability and a minimal level of service. I guess it depends on their fleet situation and the status of siezed a/c, etc. With all their announced trans-border cuts (some temporary, some not), it looks like they are pretty much down to domestic, intra-Mexico service and a few "must have" intl routes.

Good luck to the airine and all its employees.

bb


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 20660 times:

Can someone, in plain English, explain the difference between Chapter 11 vs. Chapter 15??   


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3749 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 20598 times:

Anyone want to guess what will happen to Mexicana Click and its B717s? My guess is that Click will be gone due to the strong competition from Volaris and Interjet, and that FL will buy the 25 B717s.

As for Mexicana, I feel sad, but I'm not surprised due to the recent turn of events.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3592 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 20545 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 8):
Can someone, in plain English, explain the difference between Chapter 11 vs. Chapter 15??

Chapter 15 involves a foreign parent corporation with assets in the USA.

The Chapter 15 is to prevent the seizing of the USA assets of the foreign corporation while that company is reorganizing under the foreign bankruptcy laws of it's home country.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17489 posts, RR: 45
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 20526 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 9):
Anyone want to guess what will happen to Mexicana Click and its B717s? My guess is that Click will be gone due to the strong competition from Volaris and Interjet, and that FL will buy the 25 B717s.

Click is allegedly one of the better parts of the organization, so all things equal, MX is more likely to disappear than Link and Click.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 20303 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 10):

Thank you for the explanation. So does that mean Chapter 15 protects the foreign company from the U.S. Government while reorganizing in it's own country or is that in general (IE: US Creditors, etc....)??



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineDELTA7478 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 20322 times:

Are there any talks between Aeromexico and Mexicana about selling the routes and planes?? or just merge all together???

I know AM will love to take in their 767-300's and maybe their 717. Does anybody know.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22992 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 20039 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 12):
So does that mean Chapter 15 protects the foreign company from the U.S. Government while reorganizing in it's own country or is that in general (IE: US Creditors, etc....)??

The US assets are protected from all creditors.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6203 posts, RR: 30
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 19965 times:
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Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 6):
They were considering selling the carrier to labor, minus the Mexicana brand, for 1 peso plus debts

That reeks of that LAFSA aberration they tried in Argentina.



MGGS
User currently offlineGiancavia From Vatican City, joined Feb 2010, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 19637 times:

I know this wont matter to people whos jobs are on the line but this being an aviation enthusiast site why do all the airlines with nice colours have to go belly up. Damn it!

User currently offlinegreg3322 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 19542 times:

Per media her in Los Angeles, CA USA, Mexicana is canceling four flights a day for the month of August:

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...=news/local/los_angeles&id=7589700


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15739 posts, RR: 27
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 19370 times:

Quoting DELTA7478 (Reply 13):
and maybe their 717

The 717s are part of Mexicana Click, which is a separate business and doing much better I think.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineAirCanadaA330 From Canada, joined Aug 2008, 294 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 19321 times:
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wow rough day....hopefully they can get back on track!

Quoting netjetsintl (Reply 1):
Well there you go, the Mexicana brand, 89 years of flying history in jeopardy.......

How did everything go so wrong so quick? or is it that they were able to hide their problems from the public???

if the Mexicana brand disapears, I have only one word for that, BARBARIC.....

Yeah I would agree, best of luck to all of them at MX....hopefully this is one brand we dont see go the way of the dinosour.



Cheers;
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7582 posts, RR: 42
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 18498 times:

Quoting DELTA7478 (Reply 13):
Are there any talks between Aeromexico and Mexicana about selling the routes and planes?? or just merge all together???

I know AM will love to take in their 767-300's

This has not been revealed yet, so hard to know. If MX's management believes that the bankruptcy processes will result in the slashing of costs (especially labor-related), they might not feel compelled to discuss potential divestitures at this time. If they, however, believe that they need to get rid of MX mainline and keep Click and Link, then it is very likely there are advanced negotiations.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlinelaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 553 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 18498 times:

AeroMexico has beaten them I guess. I wonder if AeroMexico will take them over. It will be interesting to see what the next step of the process is.


The real American classics: LAX and Boeing.
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8815 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18206 times:
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Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 2):
Is there ANY likeyhood that LAN might step in and help reorganize their alliance partner and have it emerge as LAN Mexicana? Just an idea....

Even though MX is a oneworld carrier, LAN never code-shared with MX. LAN code-shares with AM though. When Mexico's Government changes foreign ownership laws, there will be a LAN Mexico. Also, MX's crews are already trained on the A32S family a/c, as well as the B763s. LAN will be taking on over 70 A32S family a/c within the next five years and the company is recruiting pilots so maybe some MX pilots will consider flying for LAN. Interestingly, MX also operates a fleet of A318s. LAN will dump their fleet of 15 A318s by 2013, and it looks like MX will soon have to dispose of their fleet of 10 A318s.


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5050 posts, RR: 28
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18287 times:

Wow, this was a rapid deterioration of the airline! I mean, they really have a good product, and great employees. I sure hope they find their way through the turbulence. I would imagine the world economy has impacted them pretty badly.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5107 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18228 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 24):


LAN never code-shared with MX. LAN code-shares with AM though.

How odd, but MX is relatively new to OW and AM has better S. American presence so it doesn't suprise me (few things in this industry do anymore).

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 24):


When Mexico's Government changes foreign ownership laws, there will be a LAN Mexico.

I'm not familiar with the Mexican government's ownership limitations but LAN has worked around others in the past. This could be a golden opportunity for LAN. Or TACA/Avianca, etc....



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
25 SCL767 : LAN's relationship with AM goes back before OW was ever created. MX also doesn't operate into SCL or LIM. One never knows what LAN has up its sleeve.
26 Post contains images timetofly : Sorry, but AM didn not beat anyone, it was MX's own management that is doing this with the only intention to break both pilot's and FA's unions. Whil
27 netjetsintl : I know this sounds really bad, but I was thinkig the same thing.... how can you pay people salaries like that and expect to come out the other end??
28 Byrdluvs747 : Here's what I don't understand. If MX can use ch. 11/15 to slash its labor and other costs, then they should emerge as a stronger carrier to compete w
29 thegreatRDU : Blame timid/incompetent management succumbing to the special interests...I don't know much about MX but my guess is that they are overstaffed and do
30 skyone : Correcto mundo!!! If MX makes it out of this bankruptcy chapter, it will emerge way better than its only "Mexican" competitor on international routes
31 SCL767 : LAN will not enter TODAY, especially considering the fact that Mexico is now a Category II country. LAN will sit back and watch "the game" as the U.S
32 netjetsintl : So Aeromexico's crews make the same???? my GOD, that Mexican union must be powerfull
33 morvious : Isn't that odd? I mean, when an airliner is in trouble you think that you will notice it. If you are loosing money rapidly, you could try other thing
34 timetofly : Well, BOG is a new market for them. The fact that MEX-BOG used to have 17x per week with AV and MX exclusively in this market just over a month ago,
35 SCL767 : AM has a "new look" as well since they intend to be the dominant SkyTeam carrier in latinamerica. AM also wants to maintain its position as the only
36 ScottB : It really depends on what Mexican law says regarding the ability of companies to abrogate contracts while under Concurso Mercantil. Don't assume that
37 Goblin211 : This is all very unfortunate. I'd like to see a MX/Aeromexico merger, it'll really work out. However, going to basic economics the airline could charg
38 AR385 : Exactly. The laws in Mexico given the current climate will not change anytime soon. The PRI and the PRD looking towards the next federal elections wi
39 toproy : Not quite the same but yes, Mexican unions are extremely powerful. They are an absolute pest.
40 toproy : Right... because the PRI did not sell the banks and Telmex... Yea... the PRI is very patriotic.
41 LatinPlane : In the worst case scenario it does not appear that Mexicana will disappear. By looking at their operation it seems that Mexicana Click and Mexicana li
42 GlobalCabotage : Will AM jump into ORD or will AA, UA/CO take advantage?
43 SCL767 : And I'm sure it won't be the last time. So under Category II status, should the Mexican Government award AM MX's international routes, including thos
44 Post contains links LatinPlane : I am posting a link to Mexicana route map. If you see the route map you can see the operation of Mexicana already separated from the operation of Mexi
45 chepos : Im currently in Mexico City working on assignment and MX is business as usual, on the departures board no cancelled flights or major flight delays. Ho
46 AR385 : The CAT II status is temporary, and will be raised by the next FAA revision. Not really. The cost increase if they incorporate the Airbii as a subfle
47 Fly2HMO : Whatever happens I hope at the very least the brand survives in one form or another. After all, Mexicana is the world's 3rd oldest airline, nearly 90
48 SJOtoLIR : Due to the decision of downgrading safety rating for Mexico from Category I to Category II, American Airlines has terminated the code-share service w
49 RCS763AV : Well, best wishes to MX. I flew with them on the two times I visited Mexico, and while they could improve their product on many aspects, they are a de
50 Post contains images Aviacsa737 : Well, what ever happens, it seems to me that the only winner here will be the management, the INEPT management team at Mexicana, I guarantee you labor
51 Tomassjc : It was bad back then too. As a former US based employee at MX, I can tell you that many times in the mid 80s,several of us took our paychecks right t
52 skyone : Yes, you are biased. I do not work for MX nor for the airline industry and can only tell that I am with MX management in every way. I know it wasn´t
53 ff22DXB : Yeah, and let us the taxpayers, save the company?? No, no more government intervention. Well, if MX disappears I don't think the management is the wi
54 KFlyer : Well, not every privatization in the world has gone wrong. BA immediately post privatization was one of the best performing. And for a somewhat simila
55 Post contains images Aviacsa737 : That is by no means a fact. The whole "be grateful you have a job" argument isn't much consolation to someone who is used to such decent pay, ESPECIA
56 skyone : Ok, so you would rather see MX being saved by the government, but Aviacsa, Alma, Aerolineas Azteca and all the recent airlines that went bankrupt and
57 ggarrett : Too many non-stop routes to some Mexico destinations from some US cities in my opinion. They should have condensed to the basic hub & spoke system
58 skyone : So you think that management can go out and get a new job that pays them more than 200 K (if they even make them) just by saying I need a job. Ok, gu
59 ff22DXB : Is the government going to intervene on every private company that fails?? Then that would be great!!
60 Max Q : You hit the nail on the head Aviacsa 737 It's always easier to blame labour for managements bungling. Then they take the paycuts while the execs laugh
61 Post contains images Aviacsa737 : I didnt say, or imply that. I was saddened and angry when those airlines went down (angry that aviacsa was PROBABLY railroaded, but that's off topic)
62 MillwallSean : So MX is in bankruptcy now. Whats happening in mexico, can our mexican posters come with updates and some info. What does the newspapers say in Mexico
63 EddieDude : LOL. I promise I did not write "With the wages/salaries they were paying they deserve to be where they are right now...." or any other part of your q
64 toproy : Good news yes, but for the foreign carriers not for the users. The AA service can not hold a candle to the quality of service that Mexicana has. The
65 jmbarros12 : That will be a smart move from AM, IMHO. Knock out its main competitor, taking it out of market, then, buying it for a very very small price. I think
66 Post contains images Aviacsa737 : Thats all well and true if you are in the Lemonade stand industry or retail, where the barriers to entry are low, but NOT in the airline industry. Do
67 ff22DXB : Well, In the restaurant Industry, 5% of the restaurants open each year survive after 5 years. If a company is going down it will go down, goverment s
68 Post contains links and images AM001 : This is, sadly, so laughable.... http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/699586.html So now the criminal masterminds in Mexico will realize how much of a
69 DesertAir : I think Mexican Aviation is going through what North American Aviation has gone through after Deregulation. With competition from Volaris, Interjet, V
70 Post contains images Aviacsa737 : And why not? I would seriously like to know why, at least about Mexicana. Survival of the fitest, which you espouse will only lead to misery and suff
71 EddieDude : Why do you assume my comment meant that new start-ups would pop up to replace MX? It does not need to be a start-up! When I said that if a private co
72 ff22DXB : Agree! Don't take me wrong, I'm not arguing with you about labour vs management here. But I don't agree with you that goverment intervention is the s
73 bioyuki : Yet another legacy airline run into the ground by unions.
74 Post contains images Aviacsa737 : No, but the government IS responsible for ensuring that their nation has a workable ACESSABLE infrastructure available TO ALL, not just the super ric
75 ff22DXB : Because unions do not work as they are supposed to work, and they don't work as you think they work. If a company "takes care of" union leaders then
76 EddieDude : I will over-simplify things but you should get the point. An airline leases one A320 plane and it only flies it from point A to point B once daily. T
77 MaverickM11 : You realize your statements are totally at odds with each other, right?
78 Post contains images Aviacsa737 : None taken. I feel the same about your replies. Well, you see, with no offense intended, i could also say that fiscal conservatives or proponents of
79 MaverickM11 : $140K is a living wage in Mexico. $140K is more than a living wage in NYC. If the numbers are true, what MX pilots are making now is a king's ransom.
80 Post contains links EddieDude : I found this on a WSJ blog: http://blogs.wsj.com/source/2010/08/...airplane-leasing-firms-be-worried/ It is interesting insofar that it presents the e
81 Post contains images Aviacsa737 : Look, i know all that about WN, i still think you are just making up excuses to justify airlines who want to cut labor but not management costs. I wa
82 Post contains links LH498 : Is this now the beginning of the end? Mexicana stopped selling tickets effective 1 hour 30 mins ago (18:00 LT) Only in Spanish so far: http://www.cnne
83 MaverickM11 : I don't think anyone has suggested that only labor would face cuts; for all I know management may have already been cut to the bone, though I doubt i
84 Aviacsa737 : You know, im not going to try and bother to point out how cold and rutheless that statement is, not to mention inaccurate. I'm aware Anet is massivel
85 KFlyer : @LH498 Reservations still accepted for mainline domestic trunk routes, on GDS. Rest being zero'd out.
86 MaverickM11 : Well, you're watching it in action right now. Why would you want Mexico, with any of its pressing issues, to bail out "over paid management" and labo
87 F9Animal : You are beyond right about that. The anti-union rhetoric is amazing. I totally agree with you.
88 Aviacsa737 : I don't want overpaid management to get bailed out, i wan't the employees to have a job where either they are still geting their old wages, OR manage
89 rojo : As I stated in the other Mexicana post, this is not the end of the name MEXICANA, but the end of the Company (Compañia Mexicana de Aviacion, IATA: MX
90 orbis : Then Why MX is still selling tickets through its web site to (for example) GDL-TIJ (operated by MX A320) for monday Aug 9th ? I mean, is it reliable t
91 cx340 : Eddie, as always, right on the money. I agree. Now, whether this will work and will employees and creditors let it happen, that is another story. Like
92 ghost77 : They will continue to fly. The problem is "Mexicana". Supposedly, "Click" and "Link" are independent and are working and flying ok and with black num
93 KFlyer : I think rojo has exactly predicted what will happen. Certainly that's what they should do, though it's sad to see a 90 year old AOC fading away.
94 skyone : They will keep flying. With the labor cost Click has, plus I guess it is cheaper to lease a B717 than a brand new A319/A320 like Volaris and Interjet
95 LatinPlane : The Pilot and Flight Attendant unions (ASPA & ASSA) have stated late today that they have agreed to sit down and negotiate with management and are
96 Post contains images Aviacsa737 : As always, management wins and labor looses...(having a job, but at severely reduced pay IS NOT a win) This "win" though will undoubtedly result in l
97 Post contains links and images Mexicana757 : What do you want a job with less pay or NO job and NO income coming in??? Labor has to give away something. I'm sure management will be the next to g
98 Post contains images Aviacsa737 : Its the principle of management being able to stuff their bank accounts while the airline is bankrupt. If its so insolvent why can THEY afford to tak
99 Post contains links cx340 : According recent news reports and also as posted in Mexicana's website (link: http://cmainforma.com/boletines-de-p...o-concurso-mercantil-de-cma.html)
100 DesertAir : Can this marriage be saved? Everyone has to put away their personal interests and work for the good of the company which includes all employees from t
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