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Will WN Expand From LGA?  
User currently offlineYazoo From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 487 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3545 times:

They only serve MDW, DEN and BWI, any idea if they have solid plans on expanding their New York presence?

Thanks


Purple Pride!
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineexFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3465 times:

Well, it's hard to make solid plans without knowing if/when slots will become available.

That random variable notwithstanding, I'm sure WN would like to expand their LGA operation - I'm not entirely sure where to, and whether LGA expansion would take priority over other expansion (the Atlanta market? the ongoing fight in Denver?), but if slots became available, I'm sure WN would try to get them.


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3299 times:

Quoting exFATboy (Reply 1):
I'm not entirely sure where to,

Based on looking at BOS, STL and PHX are probably decent guesses.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFutureUScapt From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3289 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):

Based on looking at BOS, STL and PHX are probably decent guesses.

PHX would only be on option on Saturdays.


User currently offlineSanti319 From Mexico, joined Dec 2005, 405 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3267 times:

The question is CAN they expand from LGA ??? Yes, on Saturdays   

User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3209 times:

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 3):
PHX would only be on option on Saturdays.

  

But they only fly DENLGA on Saturdays, and that doesn't seem to be a problem.

Quoting Santi319 (Reply 4):
The question is CAN they expand from LGA ???

I would not be shocked to see UA dispose of some LGA slots to mollify DoT during the merger.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16908 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3203 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):
Quoting exFATboy (Reply 1):
I'm not entirely sure where to,

Based on looking at BOS, STL and PHX are probably decent guesse

Definitely Florida (MCO, TPA, FLL, PBI, RSW) since Florida is the #1 market from the NYC area, after that BOS, BUF, BNA, PIT, STL, RDU, ORF, MSY..

As mentioned before, it all comes down to how many slots WN can acquire.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3171 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 6):
As mentioned before, it all comes down to how many slots WN can acquire.

Surely as some come available they will be able to pay the price for them seeing as they have deep pockets but then again they will have to fight F9 FL Spirit and maybe even SY for them not to mention all the other majors.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1985 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3134 times:

WN would definitely love to expand out of LGA. I could see WN going to one of the Florida cities or to HOU, which is just inside of the perimeter rule. HOU would allow for good connections to the West.

SLOTS is the name of the game, though.



My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently offlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9272 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2979 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 6):
Definitely Florida (MCO, TPA, FLL, PBI, RSW) since Florida is the #1 market from the NYC area, after that BOS, BUF, BNA, PIT, STL, RDU, ORF, MSY..

If they were to expand service from LGA to PIT, I would imagine they'd run at least 4 or 5x daily on this route. LGA is one of the top destinations from PIT if not the top destination...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2188 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2939 times:

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 7):
Surely as some come available they will be able to pay the price for them seeing as they have deep pockets but then again they will have to fight F9 FL Spirit and maybe even SY for them not to mention all the other majors.

They have turned down slots in the past because they didn't want to pay market value for them.


User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2921 times:

Quoting silentbob (Reply 10):
They have turned down slots in the past because they didn't want to pay market value for them.

Well if they truly want to play in the NYC market they will have to because others will and will eclipse them. I think they know that so they will probably be more apt to play the game now.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2188 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2914 times:

Any slots they buy will have to come from people leaving the market. Nobody in their right mind will sell them slots knowing that it will likely cut into their yields even more.

User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2892 times:

Quoting silentbob (Reply 12):
Any slots they buy will have to come from people leaving the market. Nobody in their right mind will sell them slots knowing that it will likely cut into their yields even more.

agreed. And unfortunately doesn't appear anyone is leaving the market anytime soon.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2839 times:

One major problem with LGA is delays. WN really relies on on-time service to maximize fleet utilization. NYC airspace accounts for 70% of delays in the U.S.

My guess is that WN is going to serve LGA from as few places as they can get away with. It just got to the point that ISP wasn't going to cut it anymore and they HAD to go for a NYC area airport.

If you've ever seen what happens at 6:30 PM at LGA, you'll understand. With as many as 40 A/C lined up for departure, the delays can be staggering.


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2603 times:

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 13):
agreed. And unfortunately doesn't appear anyone is leaving the market anytime soon.

It would surprise me to see "new" UA give up some LGA slots. It's probably preferable to giving up EWR slots, and it might mollify DoT (at least partially).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineexFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2563 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 6):
Definitely Florida (MCO, TPA, FLL, PBI, RSW) since Florida is the #1 market from the NYC area

Do they really want to get into a spitting match with JetBlue? B6 already flies to MCO, FLL, and PBI from LGA, as well as their extensive schedule out of JFK.

I think they're more likely to look for destinations that offer a better mix of business and leisure travelers instead of getting into a yield war with B6.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 6):
after that BOS, BUF, BNA, PIT, STL, RDU, ORF, MSY..

BOS means wading in against the Shuttles, not sure if that's the best use of slots...if there was demand for another carrier on LGA-BOS, I'd think JetBlue would have launched it when it first got LGA slots.

The others here look more likely.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
But they only fly DENLGA on Saturdays, and that doesn't seem to be a problem.

Given their fixation with DEN I could see them going daily on DEN-LGA if they could get the slots. It wouldn't be my first choice, given that both F9 and UA already offer daily DEN non-stops.


User currently offlinedartland From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 646 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2559 times:
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Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 15):

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 13):
agreed. And unfortunately doesn't appear anyone is leaving the market anytime soon.

It would surprise me to see "new" UA give up some LGA slots. It's probably preferable to giving up EWR slots, and it might mollify DoT (at least partially).

Yeah, no anti-trust issue here since UA and CO are both small at LGA with no overlap and EWR is considered a separate market (for anti-trust purposes). I don't see any slots freeing up as a result of the merger.


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3633 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2463 times:

If the DL/US swap deal is any indication, US wants out of LGA.

They wanted more slots at DCA, but their may be a point that they want $$.

Enter WN. The US terminal would make a nice WN terminal too.

We'll see what happens.


User currently offlinechase From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2301 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
One major problem with LGA is delays. WN really relies on on-time service to maximize fleet utilization. NYC airspace accounts for 70% of delays in the U.S.

Couldn't they get around this by, for instance, dedicating one aircraft to LGA-HOU (just using HOU as an example) and just having that a/c go back and forth between the two stations? That way, sure, delays will still happen, and some people will miss the 2pm HOU-XYZ and need to be put onto the 4pm HOU-XYZ. But it would make network disruption much less than if, say, the aircraft went LGA-HOU-ABQ-LAS-LAX-SEA (and other aircraft did equally complex routes).

The only downside is that now there's no same-plane service to LGA from the markets that aren't served non-stop.


User currently onlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2774 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2278 times:

Quoting exFATboy (Reply 16):
Given their fixation with DEN I could see them going daily on DEN-LGA if they could get the slots. It wouldn't be my first choice, given that both F9 and UA already offer daily DEN non-stops.

These are just the routes that WN seems to cherish the most.....  


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2211 times:

Quoting dartland (Reply 17):
EWR is considered a separate market (for anti-trust purposes)

Who said? That's news to me... certainly, IAD and DCA are not separate markets.

Quoting exFATboy (Reply 16):
Given their fixation with DEN I could see them going daily on DEN-LGA if they could get the slots.

I think that's probably right.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFutureUScapt From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2174 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 21):
Who said? That's news to me... certainly, IAD and DCA are not separate markets.

It's interesting you bring that up, because it seemingly can go either way depending on what better fits the DOT/DOJ's arguments. Back in 2000, UA/US would've been considered too dominant in the WAS region without the spin-off of DC Air, yet a decade later UA's sizeable IAD operation apparently carries no bearing in the US/DL slot swap saga where US was deemed to be too dominant at WAS.


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2169 times:

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 22):
It's interesting you bring that up, because it seemingly can go either way depending on what better fits the DOT/DOJ's arguments.

It seems like the common thread is that DoT/DoJ try to open up slot controlled airports. With UA/US, considering D.C. one market served that purpose. With DL/US, considering D.C. two markets served that purpose (though even including IAD, the market share shift with DL/US as proposed would have triggered scrutiny in the merger context).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinesaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1619 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2136 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 18):
If the DL/US swap deal is any indication, US wants out of LGA.

They wanted more slots at DCA, but their may be a point that they want $$.

Enter WN. The US terminal would make a nice WN terminal too.

We'll see what happens.

Other than cold, hard cash, there's not much that WN can offer US that US needs. US holds a couple pretty good trump cards with a lot of slots at LGA and DCA. They'll hold them until WN can offer something US needs, and right now WN owns nothing to trade in terms of slots. Only cash. And those slots are valuable.



smrtrthnu
25 AADC10 : WN accepts the delays at SFO, even though they are the dominant player across the bay at less delayed OAK and south at SJC. If the market is importan
26 Post contains images DCA-ROCguy : Agreed. Now that the DL slot swap has fallen through, IMO US is going to simply sit on the LGA slots as a kind of rear-guard action, unless they find
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