Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Stansted Airport : Developing Longhaul Routes  
User currently offlineBAfan From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 189 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3673 times:

I know that AirAsiaX seems to be doing well with it's Stansted operation, and now that the airport has been given Class F status (allowing A380 and B747-8 operations) I was just wondering whether or not we might see more long haul operations starting up.

The airport has excellent european connections thanks to FR and U2, so surely a long haul network to popular destinations in the USA would work?

I would argue that it is also about the same travelling time from the city to Stansted as it is from the city to Heathrow.

Will we see developments like this in the future?

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4879 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3602 times:

Quoting BAfan (Thread starter):


The airport has excellent european connections thanks to FR and U2, so surely a long haul network to popular destinations in the USA would work?

Unfortunately, FR and U2 do not interline with other airlines so you're talking two separate bookings. They don't even offer connections on their own flights.

STN's potential as a third intercontinental airport for London has come and gone I think, as it is nearly maxed out from LFC traffic alone.

There was a time, back in the AirUK days when it appeared that STN might evolve into something of a Gatwick-North type of airport, instead it is what it is now.



Next Up: STL-TPA-BWI-PWM-BWI-STL
User currently offlineBAfan From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3583 times:

I am aware of the interline aspect, but I think people would overlook this matter if the flights were cheap enough.

Surely if Ryanair can generate demand to places that some of us have never even heard of, they could do the same to well known places like New York/Boston/Chicago?


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4879 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3514 times:

Quoting BAfan (Reply 2):


Surely if Ryanair can generate demand to places that some of us have never even heard of, they could do the same to well known places like New York/Boston/Chicago?

If it's Ryanair they would be generating demand to Newburgh, Portsmouth and Rockford and calling them NYC, Boston and Chicago.

But say for instance FR established a longhaul subsidiary with some A330's. Would they be willing to offer online connections? They might not have to if it's London. Would they even offer STN-N America flights or would they opt for MAN or PIK? Would they need connections there? Are they willing to change their winning formula (no flaming plz!) just to get into the TATL or India/East Asia markets? So many variables to consider with FR (or U2).

The few STN-N American routes that have operated never lasted long. Lack of interline connections could be a factor, and/or the lack of STN-awareness on my side of the Atlantic.

A second runway/terminal at STN, which now seems but a far off dream with the Tories in power might be a game changer for STN's status, but that's dead for now.



Next Up: STL-TPA-BWI-PWM-BWI-STL
User currently offlineMingToo From Zimbabwe, joined Jun 2009, 464 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3405 times:

Quoting BAfan (Thread starter):
I would argue that it is also about the same travelling time from the city to Stansted as it is from the city to Heathrow.

If you mean the city, as in the financial areas, then it is probably quicker to get to Stanstead than Heathrow, especially from around Liverpool Street.

The problem is that the higher revenue passengers in the city tend to live across the other side of London in Chelsea, Belgravia, Richmond, Putney, Clapham and those are quite painful for Stanstead.

For people travelling LON-NYC-LON, they are probably going to go from home to catch the flight to NYC. Might do a red eye and then into the office on the way back to London, but probably more likely red-eye Friday night and back home to bed Sat morning.

For those travelling NYC-LON-NYC though its not such a problem as they can stay in a hotel around the financial district. That makes more sense.

For lower revenue city workers and personal travel it would work though.


User currently offlinerichcandy From UK - England, joined Aug 2001, 716 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3087 times:

Quoting BAfan (Thread starter):
I would argue that it is also about the same travelling time from the city to Stansted as it is from the city to Heathrow.

I would agree!

Quoting MingToo (Reply 4):
The problem is that the higher revenue passengers in the city tend to live across the other side of London in Chelsea, Belgravia, Richmond, Putney, Clapham and those are quite painful for Stanstead.

Some do but not all. People who live in other parts of London seam to believe that Essex/East London is cheap. Yes there are areas in Essex where property is cheaper, however there are also wealthy areas were multi million pound houses are not uncommon.

I think that if Heathrow was larger all long haul services to and from London other than maybe the BA service to JFK from LCY would go there. Simply because of connections and also the fact that you can give passengers a choice of flights. American operated for a short time JFK-STN once a day and about 5 times a day to LHR. Well any advantage in offering a flight to a local airport is lost when the passenger has to fit in with the airlines schedule. I think people will put up with a slightly longer trip to or from the airport if they can fly at a time they want to.

Low cost long haul has never really taken off. Its been said that Ryanair will start transatlantic services for the past few years, but its not happened yet.

My view is that Stansted is never really going to be a long haul hub. Maybe someone like jetstar will operate a once or twice a week service to SYD via BKK. Or someone might have a go at a low cost service to YYZ or MCO but thats about it.

Just my view


Alex


User currently offlineBAfan From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3053 times:

Quoting richcandy (Reply 5):
Yes there are areas in Essex where property is cheaper, however there are also wealthy areas were multi million pound houses are not uncommon.

I can vouch for that, all the houses where I live are worth a few million each, and we are only 30 minutes drive from STN.

Essex has some very expensive properties!

 


User currently offlinewolflair From Mexico, joined Sep 2007, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2731 times:

Quoting richcandy (Reply 5):
People who live in other parts of London seam to believe that Essex/East London is cheap. Yes there are areas in Essex where property is cheaper, however there are also wealthy areas were multi million pound houses are not uncommon.

I may say that Essex, Hertfordshire (mainly East Herts) and Cambridgeshire are within Stansted's catchment area (granted some people from Stansted would go to either STN or LTN). You can be shocked to see the property prices in Cambridge... not far from London prices! And regarding East Herts, go to places line the Hadhams to meet quite a few bankers (or go to Sawbo should you wish to meet the Beckhams)... Yes, there are plenty of multi-million pound properties in the area.



JMM -A319,A320,A321,A333,A343,AT45,AT72,B462,B722,B737s from -200 to -800,B744,B752,B762,B763,BE35,DC91,F70,Ju52,MD80,S3
User currently offlinefcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 738 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2647 times:

Regarding connecting onto RYR or EZY - turning things around, how many pax connect from a transatlantic flight to someone like Southwest?

Maybe a part of the problem is that booking systems don't usually take LCC's into consideration when creating connections - also, after getting off a transatlantic flight would you really want to endure a RYR experience?!


User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4773 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2575 times:

Quoting wolflair (Reply 7):
may say that Essex, Hertfordshire (mainly East Herts) and Cambridgeshire are within Stansted's catchment area (granted some people from Stansted would go to either STN or LTN). You can be shocked to see the property prices


I would say that anywhere north of Camden Town and east of Paddington is in the STN catchment area. It takes me only about 15 mins more to travel to STN (about 35 miles) as it does LHR, and I live in NW London. I avoid LTN for one main reason - the Car Parking is an absolute rip-off - far more expensive than even LHR and more than double the price of STN.

AirAsia has a large hub at KUL including a growing list of possible onward longhaul "connections". However, they don't allow online connections. Instead they have the Tune hotel a short walk away from KUL LCCT which is acceptable accommodation for a very reasonable price. I don't see why STN couldn't offer the same opportunity.

[Edited 2010-08-04 12:37:46]

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24080 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2534 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 8):
Regarding connecting onto RYR or EZY - turning things around, how many pax connect from a transatlantic flight to someone like Southwest?

I would expect very few since the major transatlantic carriers either operate their own extensive US domestic networks or codeshare with their alliance partners. The through fares will usually be lower than the combination of the transatlantic fare to the gateway plus Southwest's fare. And if you do book a separate ticket on WN you have to claim your baggage and re-check it.

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 8):
Maybe a part of the problem is that booking systems don't usually take LCC's into consideration when creating connections

It's not that, it's because the LCCs with rare exceptions do not interline and do not want that type of traffic and all the related costs. Within Europe, the major LCCs like Ryanair and EasyJet don't even sell connections involving their own flights, never mind other carriers. If you want to book a connection you have to make 2 separate transactions and then hope the arriving flight isn't late as you won't get a refund on the second flight if you miss the connection. Same problem if you connected to/from WN or any other LCCs in the US on a separate ticket. With a through fare on one carrier or an interline booking on one ticket, if a flight is late you'll be rebooked on the next available flight at no extra cost.


User currently offlineBAfan From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2311 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 8):
AirAsia has a large hub at KUL including a growing list of possible onward longhaul "connections". However, they don't allow online connections. Instead they have the Tune hotel a short walk away from KUL LCCT which is acceptable accommodation for a very reasonable price. I don't see why STN couldn't offer the same opportunity.

This is exactly my point, and I think that many posters on here are not a part of the majority when they use the term 'Would you want, or who would want'

There are many people out there that are only concerned with who is cheapest, not whether or not they have to 'endure' a flight with Ryanair or Easyjet (which, from my experience, hasn't been all that bad for a few hour flight)


User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2226 times:

Quoting richcandy (Reply 5):
someone might have a go at a low cost service to YYZ

I think there would definitely be a market for Canadian Affair to operate a couple flights a week from YYZ with either a TS A310 or TCX 757. A weekly A330 from YVR may be bit too much of a dream, even with a stop in YYC, but I would book it no questions, as would my family coming to see me (who all live in N London & Herts).

Quoting richcandy (Reply 5):
American operated for a short time JFK-STN

That was with a 767 IIRC? Wonder if it would work with a 757 instead... likewise DL. Or CO to EWR for that matter, may be more suited to them.



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineBAfan From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2056 times:

Quoting richcandy (Reply 5):
American operated for a short time JFK-STN once a day

I honestly believe American only did this to undercut MaxJet and EOS, the minute they both went under American pulled out.

Talk about war games!  


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19097 posts, RR: 53
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2035 times:

Plenty of people self-connect between D7's long- and medium-haul flights and the shorter-haul flights operated by AK (and FD/QZ). Indeed, D7's CEO has stated that D7 couldn't exist without feed. Personally, I have self-connected between D7 and AK (from KUL to SIN and vice-versa).


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinegc2 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1874 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 1):
STN's potential as a third intercontinental airport for London has come and gone I think, as it is nearly maxed out from LFC traffic alone.

Not actually true, STN is well under capacity, in fact Sat 2 lies empty for most of the day. When Virgin have been diverted into STN they have raved about it, Emirates are another possibility as its now the diversion airport for the Emirates A380. On the north side the airport there is a lot of UAE wide body traffic. A different league I know, but something worth encouraging.


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4879 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1829 times:

Quoting gc2 (Reply 15):


Not actually true, STN is well under capacity, in fact Sat 2 lies empty for most of the day. When Virgin have been diverted into STN they have raved about it, Emirates are another possibility as its now the diversion airport for the Emirates A380. On the north side the airport there is a lot of UAE wide body traffic. A different league I know, but something worth encouraging.

Thanks for the update, the last article I read on STN capacity was a year or so ago and the spokesperson for STN said they were "near capacity", but he/she may have also stated that it was only at certain times of day and my memory could certainly be a bit fuzzy on specifics.

Shooting down the second runway at STN was just plain idiotic on the part of the Tories IMHO, but as an American I definately have no say in the matter!



Next Up: STL-TPA-BWI-PWM-BWI-STL
User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1790 times:

In the past there were rumours that EK would be interested in operating an all Y class A380 into STN (once this A380 version enters the EK fleet).
It would make sense because there is an enormous demand in London and the SE for value for money flights both to the Gulf and, crucially, on to Asia and Australia. A similar scenario applies at the other ends of the route too.
Not sure how easy it would be for EK to obtain traffic rights for an extra flight. But its case for extra capacity would be strengthened were it to opt for a London airport which has spare capacity.


User currently offlineBAfan From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1728 times:

I think there is a very good chance of Emirates beginning operations at Stansted after the recent announcement regarding Stansted's A380 approval.

If the flights are cheap enough, people will travel to Stansted! Ryanair has already proved that point.


User currently offlineiainbhx From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2008, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1700 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 8):
Regarding connecting onto RYR or EZY - turning things around, how many pax connect from a transatlantic flight to someone like Southwest?

I've come off QF in J in LAX and gone on WN to PHX, but I made sure I was on a flexible fare and left plenty of time.



iainbhx
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Longhaul Routes Accounts For Half The SAS Loss! posted Tue May 26 2009 10:58:54 by OyKIE
New BA LGW Longhaul Routes Confirmed posted Thu May 21 2009 04:19:48 by Sketty222
Summer 2009 Longhaul Routes From Ireland posted Thu Jan 8 2009 14:21:28 by AmricanShamrok
Iberia Longhaul Routes From MAD posted Mon Sep 1 2008 22:39:49 by IrishAyes
Anglesey Airport Plans Extra Routes posted Tue Feb 5 2008 13:55:30 by Pe@rson
Range Versus Payload And Longhaul Routes posted Wed Oct 3 2007 04:27:13 by Airbusted
Stansted Airport: Viewing Area posted Wed Jul 25 2007 01:06:45 by Aviator737
Stansted Airport Closed... posted Fri Jul 28 2006 01:03:48 by Gilesdavies
LHR To Stansted Airport Transfer posted Fri Mar 10 2006 19:42:20 by SJCRRPAX
Soviet Longhaul Routes Through Shannon In 80s&90s posted Wed Oct 12 2005 00:24:01 by EI321