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Puppies Die On AA Flight 851  
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12058 posts, RR: 52
Posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 13345 times:

It seems that 7 of 14 puppys put on AA-851 in TUL died. Five of them were dead when the plane arrived in ORD, and two more died at a vets office.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local...rline-Investigation--99941179.html

AA will conduct an investigation, including talking to employees who handled the pups in TUL.

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6265 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 13339 times:

My fiance was in Tulsa yesterday on business and said how gosh darn hot it was, even at 7:30am - heat index near 100 even in the morning. Just my speculation...

Always a sad story when it happens.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12058 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 13272 times:

Quoting SW733 (Reply 1):
My fiance was in Tulsa yesterday on business and said how gosh darn hot it was, even at 7:30am - heat index near 100 even in the morning. Just my speculation...

Those temps would not surprise me, here in the DFW area, it has been well over 100 degrees for about a week and no let up insite. This is typical for this time of year.


User currently offlinenycbjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 13241 times:

Surprised they even allowed them on, I Believe most carriers ban the transport of animals in hold during the summer months for just this reason.

Sad to here about the pups!

[Edited 2010-08-04 10:15:04]

User currently offlinethegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13108 times:

My guess is a lawsuit ensues

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
puppys

It's puppies bro...



Our Returning Champion
User currently offlinenwafflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1050 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 12956 times:

Yes, I'm surprised AA flew them. I've flown dogs on both Delta and NW (before the merger) and they won't fly an animal outside of a very cautious temperature range. I'll be flying a pup to Scotland in February/March time frame, and I'll make sure the outside temperature both in DTW and GLA is above freezing

User currently offlineMYT332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 71
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 12949 times:

Phew! Thank god it's only dogs that died here. When you said puppies I was thinking, well, god knows. Some kind of implant deflation....

Heaven forbid!



One Life, Live it.
User currently offlineDl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12835 times:

Quoting MYT332 (Reply 6):
Thank god it's only dogs that died here.

Dude it's puppies! how can you not be sad about poor dead puppies!

Seriously though, this is why I won't fly my dog anywhere, it's just a risk I'm not willing to take. It seems too common that dogs die in flight, get lost at the airport, or something else.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12058 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12780 times:

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 4):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
puppys

It's puppies bro...

Oops

Quoting MYT332 (Reply 6):
When you said puppies I was thinking, well, god knows. Some kind of implant deflation....

You mean like from a "C" cup on both sides to a "B cup on one side and an "A" cup on the other side?


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6094 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12763 times:

Young animals should not fly anyway, not in the hold. If it's your dog you're bringing with you, then take it in the cabin. There it seems to be "cargo" dogs to be sold.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineNumero4 From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12739 times:

Poor puppies. As a dog owner it saddens me.


CYQB
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12576 times:

Quoting Dl767captain (Reply 7):
Dude it's puppies! how can you not be sad about poor dead puppies!

Easy... what about the forgotten elderly living alone...!!



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineakizidy214 From Jamaica, joined Sep 2006, 408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12097 times:

http://www.aa.com/i18n/travelInforma...alAssistance/travelingWithPets.jsp


DCA
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12058 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11998 times:

Quoting akizidy214 (Reply 12):
akizidy214

Seems AA violated their own policy;

http://www.aa.com/i18n/travelInforma...thPets.jsp#TemperatureRestrictions


User currently offlineBrick From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1575 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11964 times:

Early DC-9's had a "puppy snuffer" switch (to turn off the cargo heat).


A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man...
User currently offlinechase From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11782 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 11):

Easy... what about the forgotten elderly living alone...!!

Buy them a puppy?


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9950 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11284 times:

I'm sure AA has much the same rules as DL. DL's max temp for animals is 85F and 75F for snub nose dogs and cats.
Looks like somebody bypassed the rules on this one.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4947 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10676 times:

Quoting nycbjr (Reply 3):
Surprised they even allowed them on, I Believe most carriers ban the transport of animals in hold during the summer months for just this reason.

Sad to here about the pups!

Some to most airlines have rules regarding transporting animals in heat. United had a huge loss of animals on a DC-10 in ORD several years ago. This lead to some changes in this.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 4):
My guess is a lawsuit ensues

More than likely.

Quoting Numero4 (Reply 10):
Poor puppies. As a dog owner it saddens me.

Me too. Animals are very special, especially to us that love them.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 13):
Seems AA violated their own policy;

http://www.aa.com/i18n/travelInforma...tions

I did not make it down this far before commenting above. Very very unfortunate. I think this should be a wakeup call to increase agent training in areas of this responsibility. There is a high chance that this may be a leading factor in someone at AA shipping them. I know this is a soft area in Customer Service training in many airlines. I would like to see airlines increase this training awareness. Also, there should be a notice that comes up in a PNR that would warn of such. I recall a warning that would come across SABRE that would pinpoint a flight that was flying into a hot area, warning me that pets were not allowed to travel. Do they still do that? IIRC, that warning would come from OPS.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineB6A322 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9917 times:

It really is a shame (esp as a dog owner) to read about this happening, but I have to add humor to every situation, so:

Reminds me of a funny (albeit cruel) joke that fits this situation:

A woman is checking in for her flight to Tel Aviv on AA and is giving the agent an earful about how they need to be extra careful with her dog, its her most valuable possession, etc. After assuring her that they will take their utmost care with the dog, the lady proceeds through security and boards her flight.

Once the flight arrives in Tel Aviv, the ramp agent takes the dog (in cage) off of the plane, and, upon inspection realizes to his horror that the dog is dead. He calls a supervisor who agrees that they must find a suitable replacement dog, and place the live dog in the same cage.

When the woman finally receives the cage a few hours later, and sees the dog, she throws a fit "This isn't my dog! That was never my dog! My dog didn't look anything like this!"

The supervising ground agent who was present, said in a very defensive way, "how can you say that? that's the same dog you put on the plane in the US! We really were careful!"

To which the lady replies, "My dog was dead. I was going to Tel Aviv to bury him".



The content I post is solely my own opinion. It is not an official statement by/of/for nor representative of any company
User currently offlinePlunaaircanada From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9516 times:

Sad story poor dogs, I remember how scared my mother was when our cat flew GRU - YYZ but she arrived safely.

Quoting B6A322 (Reply 18):
Reminds me of a funny (albeit cruel) joke that fits this situation:

lol I rly liked the ending.



(E)ngines (T)urning (O)r (P)assengers (S)wimming
User currently offlineSSTsomeday From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 1276 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9215 times:

Quoting nycbjr (Reply 3):
Surprised they even allowed them on, I Believe most carriers ban the transport of animals in hold during the summer months for just this reason.

Yes, I believe that the airlines are self regulated and make their own rules in this regard. I looked into transporting two puppies as baggage this July (LAX-YYZ) so they could be with their family during their summer vacation in Canada, but was denied.

Air Canada has a moratorium on transporting dogs in as baggage at certain cities during certain months. It is city and date specific. So for example there is a moratorium on transporting dogs to/from Los Angeles between approx early June to early September, as I recall. The tarmac may become too hot while the dogs wait to be loaded. Likewise, I suppose similar rules apply in other cities during winter months, due to the cold.

Transporting dogs as freight (not baggage) involves somewhat different rules, and there seemed to be some disagreement depending who at Air Canada I was talking to, but it can cost about $1,000 per dog or more. I was told by one Air Canada rep. that they tend to send animals (as freight, mind you, not baggage) on the red eye from L.A. because that's when they can be assured that it's cool on the tarmac at both airports. I'm not sure what their policy is for Westbound animals - p[erhaps the first flight of the day? (due to no red-eye in that direction.) However there is also a moratorium on sending dogs as freight, though there was some disagreement between the AC reps as to what those rules actually were.

I also contacted a firm that specializes in transporting dogs and taking care of it all for you and they assured me that they were not bound by the airline moratoriums. They are VERY expensive services - and they insist on picking the dog up from your home and transporting it to an address at the destination, so that you don't go anywhere near the airport or custom officials with regard to the dogs.

It's a very confusing, and I would suggest, convoluted scenario.

But I'm surprised AA's rules seem quite a bit more lax, it would appear.



I come in peace
User currently offlineAirlineBrat From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 646 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9149 times:

When I first read about this, the first thing that came to mind is the famous song from the Dr Demento Show....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcPvl6oEN-Y

[Edited 2010-08-04 21:04:04]


I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
User currently offlinetriple7man From Thailand, joined May 2005, 728 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9077 times:
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AA has strict guidlines for travelling with pet in cargo and there are temperature restrictions. The cargo holds are pressurized and when there is a pet in cargo the pilots are notified so they turn the heat on. I flew LAX-NRT on AA with my 2 cats. It was stressful but they did fine, and after the 14 day quarantine and I brought them home, it was like they were home. I wrote a TR on it. DFW-LAX-NRT With 2 Cats (by Triple7man Jun 3 2005 in Trip Reports)


Have you kissed a 777 today?
User currently offlinePHLapproach From Philippines, joined Mar 2004, 1230 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8771 times:

I'm so thankful my carrier does not accept animals/pets. It's one less thing I to worry about and I don't have to see them getting possibly abused. I would have to always make sure they are taken care of correctly. Very sad incident. I wonder what breed they were.

User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7126 posts, RR: 87
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6551 times:

This is sad, but really stupid whoever decided it was a good idea to fly animals during the month of August. The animals sit in cages on the ramp prior loading and after unloading with index temperatures reaching well over 115F on a ramp surface. Idiot owner(s) should be prosecuted for animal abuse.

Quoting SW733 (Reply 1):
heat index near 100 even in the morning. Just my speculation...

At FX we ban lives in cargo bellies regardless of apu on ground and cooled cabins after t/o during heat months.

Quoting nycbjr (Reply 3):
I Believe most carriers ban the transport of animals in hold during the summer months for just this reason.

We do.

Quoting triple7man (Reply 22):
The cargo holds are pressurized and when there is a pet in cargo the pilots are notified so they turn the heat on.

Regardless of an apu running in a pressurized cabin the animals are left on the ramp prior to loading where temperatures go well above 100F. Not conducive for safety of a human much less a small animal that is kenneled.


25 iliribdl : I am surprised too, I think we don't take them on until late Sept. or early Oct.
26 Post contains images Renfro747 : Thank you for the first evil laugh of the morning!
27 contrails : I think enough has been made of this incident. The owners will sue AA, AA will settle out of court for a sizeable amount and nothing will ever be hear
28 CMB320 : I work for American and we will not accept pets if the temperature at any point along the journey is above 85 degrees... PERIOD!!!!!! When somebody co
29 mayor : DL suspends carrying animals as baggage from May thru September. As cargo they are still accepted, subject to the temperature restrictions I mentioned
30 brilondon : There is more then likely a clause in the contract of carriage that would protect them from this or they would probably settle out of court. We need
31 KC135TopBoom : Well, someone accepted the puppies for flying to ORD. Even though the flight departed TUL at 0730, the local temps were probibly at or near 85 degree
32 CMB320 : Exactly. That's my point. We have to check the detailed weather reports and check what the temperature will be at the time the flight will land at it
33 mayor : At DL, the temps could not exceed the maximum at departure, transfer station (if necessary) and destination. Anywhere along the line the temp could n
34 Post contains images fxramper : I agree. There will be no one fired at AA. They'd have to fire the check-in agent, the gate agent, the ramp manager, the supervisor, the ramp agent o
35 mayor : AA may not have to settle out of court. The animal shippers are aware of the rules and they are just as guilty, in this case. I suspect this may be o
36 Aesma : There were 14 puppies, so I doubt it was family animals. Not trained dogs either.
37 Post contains links mayor : Yes, but do we know if they were all from the same shipper? I also dispute this, from the article..... "We don't recommend pets traveling that way,"
38 KC135TopBoom : Could be, but I doubt it. "Puppy Mills" usually done want to put much money into their "product". They may give you a certificate of shots, etc. but
39 pliersinsight : Eh, every time something happens you guys start lawyer bashing. Well, if some lawyer took this case they are a fool, unless these dogs were some rare
40 mayor : Well, I'm not sure how it is, now, but the airlines used to handle alot of the "puppy mill" business. I can remember in the late 80s, early 90s, tran
41 Lono : Mayor is right. When I worked DFWFFDL puppy mills would drive from TUL, OKC on a weekly basis with semi truck full of pups flying everywhere the temp
42 mayor : I would hope that the airlines wouldn't do that much "puppy mill" shipping, anymore. Just off the top of my head, before I retired in '05, I really d
43 thegreatRDU : When has that stopped the average American... America is a sue-happy country a settlement should do the trick...
44 Schweigend : I agree--TUL and OKC are well-known for "puppy mill" shippers. I recall that CO in past years would routinely get shipments of 8 or 12 pups on a sing
45 Post contains links KC135TopBoom : Well, it seems many of you guys are right about puppies for sale from TUL. A quick search on Bing found several sites in TUL, alone. Here is an exampl
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