CALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2583 posts, RR: 9 Posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 27005 times:
This is hard to believe. A lady spoke with the captain in the jetway and she and others thought the pilot smelled of alcohol. She told a Fight Attendant and the saga started, which ended up with DL (pilots) booting her off the flight.
Dl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 26886 times:
I'm sure we don't know the other sides of this story, for all we know she may not have acted as calmly as she thinks she did. Either way the pilot gets to decide who goes and who stays, she may not like it but what did she expect after accusing the pilot of drinking, it's a very serious accusation that could create huge problems for the pilot.
richierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4242 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 26845 times:
Interesting story - I suspect there is another side to this though.
On the one hand, you definitely don't want a situation where a whistle-blower is afraid to speak up and say something. But you also cannot have random people making a fuss and causing a disruption every time they feel like it.
RL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4645 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 26763 times:
Well normally I dont think i would side with a passenger, if others smelled it too (as indicated in the article) then it is an issue. The problem is there is no good protocol for handlign this type of situation. If I truly believed that the captain of my flight had been drinking (in excess), I'd call the police and not tell the airline. I dont believe that we need to police pilots before they get on board the aircraft, but if a few bad apples make the press then who knows what may happen as a result.
Really the crew is the best line of defense but who would rat a coworker out with something serious like that. A good temporary measure would be an anonymous employee tipline and they can monitor the situation from there.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
UAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 26643 times:
She completely did the right thing by telling someone, I would have got off the aircraft and told someone on the ground but she did the right thing either way. If you think a pilot who is about to fly a plane has been drinking you report it.
I'm sure after reported to the FO the FO told the CAPT what was going on and asked that he take a breathalyzer before continuing on the flight just to cover his own ass. CAPT calls and tells SOC what is going on they send a breathalyzer with a witness and CAPT is cleared.
Now Delta also did the right thing by asking the lady to take another flight. She has voiced her concern, they took it seriously and verified the CAPT was not drinking but for the safety of the flight she has to be removed. She didn't do anything wrong but to let her go onto LAX could cause problems, especially if she starts talking to other passengers about the incident.
There was a problem, Delta resolved it than contained it so that it didn't get any larger, GREAT JOB DELTA!!!!!
This lady was given a hotel, food, and a flight the next morning. The did a GREAT job handling this situation.
jetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7405 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 26543 times:
Quoting cokepopper (Reply 1): Huge accusation on her part. Remember there's always
THREE sides to a story.
Don't forget the epilogue, where she decides to sue Delta.
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 4): Well normally I dont think i would side with a passenger, if others smelled it too (as indicated in the article) then it is an issue. The problem is there is no good protocol for handlign this type of situation
There isn't, not without consequences anyway. In all likelihood, I think the flight would've gone on with no issues, but there is an element of vindictiveness between passengers and employees. Several times, i've flown with pilots who take a sledgehammer approach towards conflict resolution. It's part of the way we as airline employees handle things. No longer are we going to accept the "grey area" explanation anymore. From the pilots point of view, she had lost confidence in his judgement, his integrity and his ability. And he didn't want her to risk her life, so he did what he thought was right. She decided to take the bull by the horns and she got the entire bull. If you're going to make an accusation, you have to be completely sure. I'm sure we haven't heard the last of it. She's retained an attorney, which means she plans to sue. Good luck.
jfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3377 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 26363 times:
If the article is correct, Delta handled the situation correctly.
If a pilot is accused of drinking, he (she assumed throughout) takes the test. He walks right out of the cockpit and takes the test to immediately clear his name.
If the pilot is cleared, he can take the flight or walk away. If the pilot (in this case Capt) returns to the cockpit he is in charge of the flight.
As the Captain, he can kick anyone off the flight that he pleases if he feels it is a distraction to his job or a safety issue. This is his call.
That is why he is called the Captain.
In this day and age of empowerment and political correctness we often forget who's in charge or feel we have the right to question authority to no avail. From parking brake release to parking brake set, the guy in the left seat is in charge . . . plain and simple.
AirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3702 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 26309 times:
Sounds like a non issue to me. Once the door is closed that is the Captains plane and he has every right to boot anyone off the plane that he wants to. I think Delta handled the situation very well, and the lady even got another night to visit her son.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
peterjohns From Germany, joined Jan 2009, 201 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 26061 times:
Something is odd to this whole story.
If the Cpt. is cleared- why should he have the Passenger removed who spoke up? It should be her good right to issue her concerns- especially if several pax smelled it as well.
I don´t think it a wise move to then remove her from the flight- will she ever speak up again in a safety related case?
If there is nothing to hide then just go on with it.
I´m not happy with the part that officials board the plane a second time and take her off. There must be something missing there.
Anyway- we all know that Pilots don´t drink before flights, don´t we?
richierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4242 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 25898 times:
Quoting AR385 (Reply 13): I agree that the Captain has the discretion to throw off the plane anybody whose presence onboard he deems unnecesary. Still, it was not very political or smart on his part.
It seems to have worked out pretty well for him. If he had been drinking before that flight, there is no proof now and its a he said she said issue. If he wasn't drinking before the flight and had the passenger removed anyway, there was no skin off of his back for throwing around his authority.
Quoting 777236er (Reply 9): Of course he or she can, and they will be sacked for making the wrong decision...which I suspect will happen in this case.
I don't necessarily think that will happen... there is at least one more side to this story as several of us have suggested. He could say that she was the one drinking and causing a scene. Who knows what really happened.
AirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3702 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 25695 times:
Quoting 777236er (Reply 9): Of course he or she can, and they will be sacked for making the wrong decision...which I suspect will happen in this case.
No he won't. All he has to do is say that he did it in the name of safety and he will be completely cleared. ALPA won't let someone get fired over something like this. Hell, the guys who landed on a taxiway only had to go through re-training. I think you underestimate the power of the union over here my friend.
The we would be reading an article about a "Hero Passenger Save's 250 Live's By Detecting Drunk Pilot". The article said the pilot was tested and cleared to return to work. Had he been drunk the flight would have been delayed while they pulled a ready reserve captain up from downstairs
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
N92R03 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 25630 times:
Props to DL for the way it was handled. Glad the Captain was cleared.
If I had been the whistle-blower, I'd have preferred taking a different flight although I'm sure the crew of that flight would know what I had done...Kind of a lose-lose situation but at least we are not reading about another pilot trying to fly while being hammered.
There is a reason many folks tip the vodka back in secrecy, as there is no smell to vodka and many other hard liquors. I question the whole "we could smell vodka" story. Perhaps the other pax thought they smelled some type of alcohol but "vodka" was convenient.
NorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 25619 times:
I think Delta handled the situation correctly, I think if I were the passenger however, i'd have handled it differently.
Rather than waiting to get on the plane and making some kind of big scene by reporting it to a crew member possibly within earshot of other passengers, i'd have walked back up the jetway and spoken with the gate agent. I would have asked to be removed from the flight and i'd have explained my concern that i thought one of the pilots smelled like he had alcohol on his breath. That way I'm off the flight anyway and no one's sensitivities have been hurt by what turns out to be a false accusation. In the end, there's no need to make a big deal out of it, i'd much rather be discrete and if possible stay anonymous than make a big stink. the way i figure it, I always have a choice as to whether or not to get on an airplane, and if getting on that plane makes me feel uncomfortable for whatever reason, I'll just catch another flight.
Why are people so against low yields?! If lower yields means more people can travel abroad, i'm all for it
thegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 25579 times:
A lawsuit will ensue and she will lose...
Making allegations that the pilot has been drinking is serious....that pilot will lose his career if he has been drinking...
This one was not...good move Delta...
AR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6128 posts, RR: 30
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 25490 times:
Quoting N92R03 (Reply 18): There is a reason many folks tip the vodka back in secrecy, as there is no smell to vodka and many other hard liquors. I question the whole "we could smell vodka" story. Perhaps the other pax thought they smelled some type of alcohol but "vodka" was convenient.
I can tell you from experience that that is a myth. Vodka will smell on you as any other liquor will, specially once your body starts to excrete through respiration. Maybe the SMELL, the particular scent of Vodka is less strong than Bourbon, for example, but the alcohol smells just the same and will be detected by anyone with a mediocre nose whos passes by.
Flaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1258 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 25439 times:
Kudos to Delta. If the article is correct they did everything right from start to finish. The captain was corrrect in his actions. He has no way of knowing how this accuser is going to act once airborne. She might be perfectly content and accepting of his verified innocense and the situation ends there. On the other hand she could also be non accepting and become disruptive. As captain I would have made the same decision.
There are an enormous amount of gold digging sensasionalists in this country that will take and run with every opportunity for their fifteen minutes of fame or the possibitly of legal paydirt. Im not accusing this woman of that (yet) but I have to say hmmm. Her concerns were addressed, she was compensated for her inconvenience, everyone is safe. End of story.
airlinereporter From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 24768 times:
What a very difficult situation that everyone was in. If it was just her who smelled the possible alcohol, it would be a very different situation. If multiple people smelled something, it should have been checked on like it was. If the pilot kicked off the passenger because he honestly felt it was for the best due to safety, then no problem. If he booted her for retaliation against her, that is not alright.
burnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 24637 times:
Sorry but anytime that the pilot is accused or even someone jokingly mentions that they pilot was drinking, smells like booze, or was seen near a bar they have to take a mandatory breathalizer etc. I'm calling BS on this woman, some drunk guy said he thought he saw my dad at the airport bar shortly before the flight, he had to delay the flight 3 hours for a breathalizer and other tests and talk to managers and of course the guy got booted off the flight.
"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
: If this is the case and the pilot was drinking, I'm sure she didn't mind being kicked off the flight.
: I must be taking crazy pills this morning. Why should the woman be punished for raising what could be a potentially VERY serious issue? She paid good
: I still think they had very fortunate timing. Had the NW A320 situation not blown up at nearly the same time, the taxiway landing would have made the
: You would think so, wouldn’t you? Erwin Washington, a UA pilot who was arrested in London attempting to fly a 767 to ORD drunk did not lose his job
: Crazy right? He's a union member...and you know how it is with them...
: Some cheap after-shave and colognes can make you smell like a veritable boozehound.
: This is such a bloody double standard. Any passenger can accuse anyone else of being a terrorist and they have absolutely no legal recourse to contest
: A ready reserve captain sitting down stairs? Thats funny.
: This woman won't get any settlement from Delta nor should she. We've only heard her side of the story from the article and I suspect there is more to
: I believe the pilot AND Delta both acted correctly. From the "looks" of things by having to have her leave the plane twice it sure seems that during t
: That is a terrible analogy. There are extreme risks of human life that could come as a result of yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre -- telling an F/
36 Max Q
: Good for the Captain and good for Delta. I would have kicked her off as well. You just don't get to make that kind of accusation without consequences.
: The captain needs to buy better cologne, and this kind of thing won't happen again.
: 100% agree NorthstarBoy. Sad thing is...how many would actually do that in liability hungry USA?
: Perhaps if you were on the receiving end of such an accusation you would view things differently. Should the accusation be baseless as it was in this
: If I believe that this story unfolded just like the article depicts it, then kudos to Delta for handling it the way they did. I can appreciate their p
: Problem is that a flight the next day and a free hotel (woo-hoo!) is hardly a comparable experience. Most posters seem to be acting as if she's Suzy H
: That's ridiculous! This seems like nothing more than revenge. The captain was cleared, and the passenger was told this. Everything is now under contr
: If her accusation was deemed malicious don't you think DL would have rode her out on a rail instead of paying for food, hotel and a flight the next d
: so what happens if the said whistle blower was a buisness person closing a multi-billion dollar deal in person- and because that person was not there
: Sorry, what she had wasn't alertness. It was just a plain incorrect accusation. Groupthink between her and the other three. If I'm going to accuse an
: if it was career ending, than god for her, because she would have saved 200 people from a drunken ride through the sky! - what if it wasnt a drunk pi
: Like most things, the devil is in the details. I suspect a lot of these decisions were made due to how she made these accusations, not necessarily the
: Quoting web500sjc: so what happens if the said whistle blower was a buisness person closing a multi-billion dollar deal in person- and because that pe
: ill stick with my current opinion (you shouldnt punish a whistle blower/ someone who is trying to do the right thing) untill the rest of the details
: web500sjc; I'll stand by my previous comment about how i feel there is more too "her" side of this than was reported. I feel that she might have had a
: and stopping getting the masseuse to use alcohol in those rubdowns. and usually in those deals there are many people involved not just one.
: Among the many other comments on this board, including the captain's ultimate authority, this hits the nail on the head. Her actions questioned not j
: Everyone who is lambasting DL for their handling of the situation and treating the woman's ejection as a "punishment" is completely off base. First of
: This is the easiest piece of information that can be offered given what we factually know about this story. As stated, there are 3 sides to every sto
: I think DL did the right thing also. And same goes for this lady. However, one thing I find a little troubling is. Since when can you smell Vodka? I t
: Someone who values their own personal safety and that of their passengers. However there are ways of handling it without ratting someone out. Like ma
: If he was drunk or had high levels of alcohol flowing around in him would the rest of the crew take his side? Doubt it .. im pretty sure they value th
: How was she "accusing" anything? She apparently mentioned to the flight attendant that she "thought she and other passengers had smelled alcohol on t
: Vodka does smell on a persons breath after drinking it....The lady probably did smell alcohol in the jet way considering that the flight was late eve
: I find it humorous to read suggestions that the pilot should counter-sue for slander. Do you have any idea how hard it is to win such a suit in the US
: Apparently the woman wasn't too concerned because she got on the plane and went back to her seat...TWICE!
: No, I would relate it more to discreetly telling a theater employee you "thought" you smelled smoke. Your mentioning your concern discreetly to the s
: Isn´t booting a person off with the doors closed extremely cruel? Especially in mid air! ###"I´m always on the Run"###
: I am a flight attendant. I have been in this situation. NOT a situation where our captain had been drinking but a situation where a passenger thought
: So, because Ms. Angel "thought" she smelled alcohol, she was compelled to delay a flight for at least an hour and endanger the career of an innocent C
: Ugh, that's an incredibly tasteless joke. That ranks up there with joking there's a bomb on board.
: Most of us know that it isn't worth placing our careers at risk, and won't even think about showing up with alcohol in our system. I won't even use m
: I do think this situations sucks for both sides as the pilot had to be tested and the flight delayed while the passenger was inconvenienced. But Delta
: They don't need to come up with a story. They are an airline; therefore, they have perpetual liability no matter how they handle an incident. Look no
: Or perhaps they feel that since they correctly handled the situation, as far as their part goes it is case closed, over and done with. There is no ne
: I don't even know where to start... 1) You don't seem to understand that alcoholism is a disease. If you are an alcoholic, you can't make a choice wh
: Can you enlighten us on how to kick someone off when the door is closed? BTW, the door was open.
: The pilots had started out in PIT earlier in the day. The rotation shows that it was over a 4 hour hub turn indicating that they delayed the flight fo
: I understand and respect the intent behind this post but that approach opens an awful can of worms. Maybe all passengers should blow a breathalyzer b
: ...by pulling back into the gate... Now you are enlightened!
: And opening the door, I suppose ....
: So retaliation by a person in a position of power is acceptable now?
: It's not retaliation. She continued to make accusations and cause a scene after the CA had already gotten tested and returned to the plane.
: A handful of people in my family have been/are alcoholics. How dare you say I don't understand it is a disease when I've watched what it does to peop
: I'm curious...what happens if was another safety concern instead of a pilot drinking. If someone sees fluid dripping from an engine and it turns out t
: The fact that you wrote the above, is evidence that you have no idea about the facts of alcoholism or any other type of addiction. No matter how many
: From the looks of the article and video, Angel and her attorney were the only ones interviewed. In fact it appears there was no other source of infor
: What is written is not the whole story nor what actually happened.. It's a money grab by the woman and her lawyer.
: Of course this is a retaliatory move by the Captain. He blew clear but he wasn't satisfied... he wanted to make sure he punished the woman for what i
: Since what is written is not the whole story, then there is not enough evidence to draw any solid conclusion, much less whether or not her actions ar
: I can tell that having some sort of reasoned argument with you is going to be practically useless as you seem unwilling to consider the scientific ev
: The potential for this lady to upset other passengers during the flight is reason enough to boot her off. Suppose she sits down in her seat and starts
: Bingo... and that's exactly what happened. She continued on and on AFTER the CA had already been tested.
: And you know this how? And I really mean "know"...not infer or guess.
: Let me guess, she sues because her 'rights' were violated and the company 'embarrassed' her causing 'distress' and other 'damages' Another day in the
: No kidding! If I have a legitimate concern, I NEED a way to bring it up. Frankly, this woman did so in the best way possible. This thread seems to im
: It sure is nice that you know the reasons behind why the Captain decided to do what he did. Issue cleared up, everyone go home now. Accusation: 1. a
: Sad, I know. Flying is not a right. People too easily forget this. That being said, voicing a legitimate concern over the state of one of the crew is
: Wow this is heavy stuff by Delta. IMHO any passenger (or indeed anyone) should have the right to express a concern like this. I know there are profess
: That is not in the article. It makes no mention of her continuing on and on AFTER the CA had been tested. In fact, the article mentions that she acce
96 Max Q
: MLD9s A very insightful contribution I think. If this Pilot HAD been drinking then, of course the 'observant' passenger would have done the right thin
: If anyone is still reading this thread - I linked the article to the other 90 or so pilots I keep in my email address book and everyone that replied s
: Thank you. Should she have stayed on the flight, she could have (not necessarily intentionally) created a problem after departure. All you need is fo
: After reading pretty much all of the replies I have just one question. If a member of the flight crew walks past me as a pax about to board a flight a
: If many on this thread are taken at their word, a pilot who doesn't like redheads could kick a redhead off a flight on the basis that redheads are po
: I have given up on helping to open your mind...but for the benefit of those who might have an open mind and read this thread, allow me to make this a
: Maybe he knows more then what was printed from his employer? I had heard something about this before it made its way to tv and it sounds like there w
: So what does 'smelling alcohol on one's breath' implie? The person has been drinking alcohol and may be drunk. That is an accusation that must be tak
: That's true imagine her on the flight and if other passengers were to ask what happened...and she says she smelled alcohol on the Captain...that coul
: Listerine or alcohol, or are they the same thing. Come on... The Captain will answer for his action taken, but as stated previously many times he can
: Because suing is always the answer to the problem. Awesome! Your post is why my sympathy tends to gravitate towards the airlines and their employees
: You are absolutely correct. The captain's authority is very broad and any review of his actions gives wide and liberal deference to his decisions. An
: It's a simple statement of a fact that she and other pax believed to be true. Can you cite which rule she broke?
: My goodness you people are dense. Can't you get the hint that some people might be a bit more privy to what happened than what is in print?
: This was posted by a user on another forum.
: whatever happened the story is about to go up on CNN... wonder what they will say.
: Without knowing the entire story in this situation, I will say this... If someone is concerned enough that a pilot has been drinking, not only should
113 Max Q
: You don't get to make jokes about bombs going through security and you don't get to make jokes about Pilots drinking on your flight without ramificati
: The article clearly states that when told the Captain was not drunk, she accepted the explanation and took her seat. She was later removed from the p
: http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/women-f...-drinking/story?id=11326467&page=2 "Delta says that Angel wasn't being so quiet. "Airport customer service,
: I wonder what the other passengers will say.
117 Max Q
: As stated above, she wasn't quiet at all, she was, without doubt a disruptive passenger and disruptive passengers get left behind ,what ever the reas
: To those who are defending "poor" Miss Angel, please let me shed some light on the issue of passenger removal. Removing a passenger from a commercial
: There is more to the Story....The Airlines Side of it
: Really? All Delta said was: Because we all know that airlines exist to satisfy the needs of PICs, not pax; they also make their money by satisfying P
: How is this slander? If she had say "hey buddy I think the Captain has had a drink" then you might have a point, but saying that she thought she coul
: OK... 1) Do we have any pilots here with an active ATPL, and if so; 2) Would any of you do that?
: His source is that he is employed by Delta and had heard of this before it came out in the news. Again, there is more then what was initially reporte
: Thanks cv640. I knew you would be able to connect the dots, haha. Yes, I'm privy to what happened. Kicking a passenger off an airplane is a BIG deal.
: Actually, there is quite a bit of doubt. What we have is her saying she was quiet and Delta saying she wasn't. That leaves plenty of room for doubt.
: But there is doubt that she was disruptive. If she was disruptive DL would have been under no obligation to issue hotel/meal vouchers or to rebook he
: Because it's cheaper than a lawsuit. If they do go to trial, they can then show that they went above and beyond their requirements and she is just be
: Whichever side gets the most passengers to agree with them, wins.
: Oh my goodness. It's no wonder most pro pilots have left this site that used to frequent it years ago. I have booted disruptive/drunk pax off before
: You guys are soooo sure that's what happened, care to state your source? BTW, take note of this guy: I'd be willing to bet he read the actual report
: Yup, that's pretty much how life goes, you make the Police officer mad and they won't treat you so well, you make the teacher angry and they grade yo
: My source has been the article...and I referred to it at every step. Hold on sparky...my expertise is in a lot of fields and at no point did I specif
: You have a source for this? I have based all my debating points upon the article which clearly states that the passenger concerned accepted the expla
: If you'd said so in the first place, it would have saved about 50 posts.
: I wanted to chime in here... some people here think that this woman pax falsely accused the pilot of doing something. I have to say I disagree. There
136 Max Q
: If you want to interpret the Captain's and Managements actions as 'making an example out of her' that is up to you. The reality is she was disruptive
: How so? You dodged my question. Maybe we should rehash this thread again...???? Ultimate Authority Always With Captain? (by faro Apr 1 2010 in Tech O
: That is my interpretation also. The actions of the Captain in this instance sets a dangerous precedent. If a pax suspects a crew member of being unde
: Has anyone entertained the idea that said passenger smelled alcohol - but it was on HER breath?
: How do you know? Do you have any sources other than the one dimensional article where the only information provided was from her?
: Extremely unlikely, persons that have been consuming alcohol do not as a rule smell it on their own breath. This is mainly due to the fact that olfac
: You know, the FAA is not the only thing that is used for oversight............ Do I need one?? Agreed. As stated in the thread that I provided, that
: Common sense and thinking critically tells me its one dimensional. As I said earlier: The defendant has spoken, but I think the prosecution deserves
: Common sense suggests that the account carries a ring of truth about it. Otherwise why would DL issue hotel and meal vouchers as well as rebooking he
145 Max Q
: Wrong. A Jet Transport is not a Democracy. The final responsibilty for the safety of the Aircraft and it's passengers lie with one person who also ho
: As you say the FINAL responsibility lies with the Captain. But everyone has a part to play in flight safety. That was my point. If say a flight atten
: Can I ask all the professional pilots on that have expressed views on this incident to read this, which I posted earlier... and state what would you d
: Any number of reasons. Maybe it's SOP, maybe to prevent it from being a total PR nightmare, maybe she and her family were frequent Delta flyers, or m
: Extremely unlikely, how long would any carrier be in business if it was SOP to give food and hotel vouchers to off-loaded, disruptive passengers. I t
: And we all know that having a God complex sitting in the left seat is the best way to ensure safety - right? Think Tenerife, and ... and ... and ....
: Again, the article doesn't have all the information. The only statements were from the lady. There was no additional info from other passengers, crew,
: No, I don't. I think you need to review that thread I posted in reply 137 for a refresher because you know what you just said is not entirely true...
: Where is this additional information? I didn't see this in the article quoted in the original post and is at odds with the account given in that arti
: See reply 115... Also, http://www.ajc.com/business/woman-kicked-off-delta-585104.html Regardless of whether or not the passenger was disruptive, I fa
: You don't consider being removed from a flight and delayed overnight as a punishment? I certainly would. If you read the original article she volunte
: I don't consider questioning a pilot's competence, especially when it comes to the bottle to throttle situation, and then being removed from a flight
: BTW what happened to the broad who fell asleep on a UA aircraft and woke up in the hangar and sued for $75,000 citing "emotional distress"?
: Eh, I hate jumping to conclusions. If I had to draw a conclusion though, I would say Angel is full of it. I just can't see a Delta Air Lines captain,
: I wouldn't have thought so, either. But judging from the reaction of at least one captain on this thread, I'm beginning to think otherwise. As Airfra
: Most of the posters yelling ""Unfair" & "Retribution" are missing a large part of the Captain's responsibility in this flight. The accuser has alr
: I appreciate the reply from the real world, but can I ask you to put yourself in her position, assuming she was both sane and really did think she sm
: She should have done exactly what she started out to do if she really suspected him of drinking. The process gets moving very quickly and is taken ve
: It will also create huge problems for everyone on board if such an 'accusation' (your words) turns out to be correct, or should such concerns not app
: There is no conclusive evidence to that effect. Two differing accounts, one from the passenger and a statement from the airline. While there are thos
: Do you have any reason to suggest any of the above, any more than I might suggest captains have god-complexes? Maybe she was just a middle-aged women
: logic dictates otherwise if you know how these things go. As far as a vindictive captain in the second quote... I believe if you think that is how th
: It might be retaliation but if I was the captain I would have done the same thing. I would have met the woman in the jetway AFTER I was cleared and e
: I made some comments earlier in the thread to the effect that an overnight delay can really cause a problem for someone and maybe everyone concerned w
: Wise call by the CAP. It could have turned into an ugly mess once up there, imagine if the PAX choose to not believe the results that cleared him and
: Actually, before entering nursing college at uni, I worked for a small carrier at in the UK and I have seen how a MINORITY of captains can act. So in
: You've slandered just about everyone other than the woman that is looking to collect on a payday for getting kicked off the plane and NOW you say the
: Here's part of the problem. A lady goes to the airline with a potential safety concern and in the end, it's not considered as such but as a disruptio
: Are we so certain of this? This is what is alleged in a statement from Delta, but is at varience with the passenger's account. Why is it the case tha
: Well the article says the first meeting was when the manager told her the captain had already been cleared. I'm sure "continued to be concerned" mean
: Have any of these shit scared people commented yet?
: Do you have any basis for this, or is it pure speculation? I find it quite telling that no other pax have come forward to suggest Mrs Angel was, in t
: I beg your pardon? Who have I personally slandered? I have only stated my opinion on the likelihood of certain events, or past precedent in certain a
: I think you need to read up on the difference between slander and libel. Note that this statement is not libelous, but if I had worded it as "you are
: Pure speculation. I find it quite telling Mrs. Angel didn't include them in her interview.
: Actually, Angel does mention the other passengers with whom she spoke prior to approaching the airline with her concern. Delta doesn't mention speaki
: Right, I mean that i'm surprised she didn't have the passengers make an appearance with her at her interview.
: So you were present on board that aircraft on that occasion? If the answer is yes then fair enough. If the answer is no, then you are not privy to wh
: I will not comment one way or the other on my sources... they are valid though. The problem I have is that "educated" aviation enthusiasts are assumi
: ATLANTA - After a Southern California woman said she was kicked off of a Delta Air Lines flight in Atlanta for reporting that she and others smelled a
: As is often the way with these things, the fact is that none of us know who said or did exactly what to whom, in what tone of voice, at what volume, e
: I agree in principle taking your word regarding your sources, even though I don't know what your sources are, but they are no more or less valid that
: I'm more trying to educated the people on here as to how the process goes. What actually happened (yes, I do know what actually happened) was absolute
: Sorry but the sceptic in me concludes (also based on your profile) a few possibilities, that you are a Delta employee who may have seen a press relea
: Nothing at this point can be proven. That she didn't drop the issue, to me, is a much more plausible story than the entire flight crew (including a m
: That is my entire point. But the POSSIBILITY of collusion between Capt and airline management is not a implausible as you may think. POSSIBLE scenari
: There's nothing in anything you've referred to (including Delta statements) to support this. In fact, your previous post sets out quite neatly the tw
: Sure this is possible. But not as likely, in my opinion, as her carrying on about it and now trying to make a quick buck. The captain may be the fina
: Delta hasn't released what they are claiming she actually said and nothing they have released necessarily contradicts her position. So far, there is
: The fact of the matter is the woman can sue whomever she wants, the Captain won't be held liable. He has the power to remove whomever he likes in the
: Or more like look like a veiled admission of liability. Other pax were already had this suspicion anyway, and in fact mentioned it to her. This has h
: How many already knew, like three? Maybe Delta going above and beyond, maybe your conspiracy theory is right. Who knows. We could speculate for the r
: All the Captain has to say is that he did it in the interest of safety, he felt the woman could cause other passengers to lose confidence/ be worried
: Ahhh - the god complex in the left seat, which of course ensures the safety of the flight ... not.
: I know it is hard for some to accept, but the Captain is the final authority as to the operation of the flight. The FAA specifies this, this is the w
: Like Tenerife - right. But you were just saying that as long as he said he was throwing her off fer safety reasons, no one could second-guess him, ev
: Nobody ever said flight crew's were perfect, we are human. However the accident rate, particularly for western carriers says we do a damn good job. Y
: BTW, for every Tenerife, there are many more instances where Captain's like Captain Sullenberg made decisions that saved lives. They happen every day
: But by your own argument that cannot happen. Who is there to determine if a captain's actions are reasonable or no when his or her word is final? You
: It is also apparently hard for some on here to accept that a Captain is not God......they have final authority only within reason and legalty, so let
: All the people that come back behind you and monday morning quarterback your decision. You are the final authority, but you have to back up your acti
: So long as the captain does not compromise the safety of the flight, the he absolutely does have final authority. They are ultimately responsible for
: If you're referring to Angel, her account indicates she actually did what she was told to do, which was to take her seat. Delta has yet to release wh
: I keep seeing usage of the phrase, "safety reasons". Can someone explain to me how having a passenger back there saying anything remotely close to "we
: I'll admit I got a little off topic, as I was referring to certain users on here who feel they can question a pilot's decision to, well, make decisio
: The problem is, the only person we've heard from who was actually involved is Angel. Delta issued their statement through a spokesperson without reve
: Quite incorrect, I am saying that one account is no more reliable that the other. A lady armed with a lawyer screaming to the media, or one Capt who
: Read the book entitled "SkyGods" and get back to me, then we'll talk.
: All authority is subject to reasonable use of it. You cannot act in an arbitrary manner. See above. It is not about political correctness. She did NO
: Then in the interest of safety hot coffee should not be served,. Dave
: Well, there is someone else's side we didn't hear (at least not directly): the crew and all of the other passengers. ??? Of course they do. It's call
: Bingo. Despite what people want to think, being an Airline Captain is not simply being a "glorified bus driver". It is quite a responsibility. In the
: Thanks for that post.... best one in the thread. The system is crafted, from start to finish, to protect passenger safety. There is no need for amate
: What...? If I smell booze on a pilot's breath or spot some other safety deficiency, I'm going to report it. It's my ass on the plane, pilots do somet