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OAG Changes 8/6/2010: AA(Big Shift), DL, F9, NK  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7039 posts, RR: 13
Posted (3 years 12 months 6 hours ago) and read 9840 times:

This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now.

How to read:
ABE-MDT 3>2 APR means a reduction in one roundtrip from 3 to 2 for April only
ABE-MDT 3.8>2.7 APR-JUN This is the raw format of the data which sometimes I'm too lazy to retype. It means that over a month they were averaging a little less than 4 trips per day and now it's a little less than 3 per day. So, basically they cancelled 8 flights per week or so. Airlines are doing A LOT of non-daily ops now, so these fractions are pervasive.
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY- means an increase from 4 to 6 roundtrips starting in May and continuing
ABE-MDT 4>6 MAY-JUN, 5>6 JUL means the change is only for the stated period May to June and then a different change for July in the same route

AA
Big shift from ORD to MIA. Also, markedly increased svc from CLE. AA is expecting the CLE capacity to move to ORD and is proactively shifting IMHO. Even with the increase in MIA, it is still a big net decrease. This is effectively the STL capacity that was moved to ORD before. Makes you wonder about AA's viability in ORD now.

DFW-RNO 2>3 FEB-
DFW-TUS 7>8 FEB-
JFK-GIG 1>0 NOV- (?) Svc Start Cxld
MIA-CLE 0>2 NOV-
MIA-CMH 1>2 NOV-
MIA-CVG 1>3 NOV-
MIA-GSO 1>2 NOV-
MIA-IND 1>2 NOV-
MIA-MEM 1>2 NOV-
MIA-PIT 1>2 NOV-
MIA-RIC 1>2 NOV-
MIA-SDF 1>2 NOV-
MIA-TYS 1>2 NOV-
ORD-BDL 6>4 NOV-
ORD-BMI 4>3 NOV-
ORD-BUF 5>4 NOV-
ORD-BWI 5>4 NOV-
ORD-CLE 4>6 NOV-
ORD-CLT 6>4 NOV-
ORD-CVG 8>7 NOV-
ORD-CWA 3>2 NOV-
ORD-DSM 6>5 NOV-
ORD-DTW 8>7 NOV-
ORD-EWR 8>7 NOV-
ORD-ICT 4>3 NOV-
ORD-IND 9>8 NOV-
ORD-LIT 5>4 NOV-
ORD-MEM 4>3 NOV-
ORD-MKE 6>5 NOV-
ORD-MTJ 1/WK>0 DEC-
ORD-OKC 5>4 NOV-
ORD-OMA 5>4 NOV-
ORD-PIT 6>5 NOV-
ORD-ROC 5>4 NOV-
ORD-RST 6>5 NOV-
ORD-SDF 5>4 NOV-
ORD-SGF 4>3 NOV-
ORD-SYR 5>4 NOV-
ORD-TVC 4>2 NOV-
ORD-YUL 5>4 NOV-

DL
ATL-CLE 7>6 NOV-
ATL-LYH 3>2 NOV-
ATL-MDW 6>7 NOV-
ATL-SFO 7>6 NOV-
ATL-TLH 10>9 NOV-
BOS-RDU 3>5 NOV- (AA reduced last week)
CVG-PIT 2>3 NOV-
CVG-ROC 1>0 NOV-
DCA-BDL 0>3 OCT-
DCA-BOS 7>12 OCT-
DCA-CMH 0>3 OCT-
DCA-HSV 2>0 OCT-
DCA-IND 2>3 OCT-
DCA-JAX 0>3 OCT-
DCA-MCO 0>4 OCT-
DCA-MIA 0>2 OCT-
DCA-STL 0>4 OCT-
DCA-TPA 0>2 OCT-
DTW-HSV 3>2 NOV-
DTW-LIT 3>2 NOV-
DTW-SBN 6>5 NOV-
DTW-TOL 4>0 NOV-
DTW-TRI 2>1 NOV-
DTW-YQB 3>2 NOV-
JFK-FLL 2>3 NOV-
MEM-EVV 1>0 NOV-
MEM-MLI 2>1 NOV-
MEM-MSN 2>1 NOV-
MSP-BJI 2>3 OCT-
MSP-PDX 4>3 NOV-
MSP-SFO 6>5 NOV-
MSP-TOL 0>2 NOV-
SLC-PVR 0>4/WK JAN-FEB Fills gap

F9
DEN-ASE 2>0 OCT-
DEN-MKE 6>5 NOV-

NK
FLL-ZSA 0>1/WK DEC-

YV
LIH-OGG 0>1 SEP-

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMacsog6 From Singapore, joined Jan 2010, 525 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 12 months 6 hours ago) and read 9788 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DFW-RNO 2>3 FEB-

Seeing as AA has 3Xday now, when does this go to 2X so it can go back up to 3X in Feb?



Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7506 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (3 years 12 months 6 hours ago) and read 9712 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Big shift from ORD to MIA. Also, markedly increased svc from CLE. AA is expecting the CLE capacity to move to ORD and is proactively shifting IMHO. Even with the increase in MIA, it is still a big net decrease. This is effectively the STL capacity that was moved to ORD before. Makes you wonder about AA's viability in ORD now.

They do this every year. November marks the start of slow season in Chicago and high season in Miami. It only makes sense to shift the capacity on a seasonal level. They tend to shift it back come late April.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinediverdave From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 320 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 12 months 6 hours ago) and read 9714 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DCA-HSV 2>0 OCT-
DTW-HSV 3>2 NOV-

Not so good for Delta at HSV. Disappointing to be losing a flight to DTW.  

Thank you so much for these threads, they have good data!

David


User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1901 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (3 years 12 months 6 hours ago) and read 9617 times:

Quoting diverdave (Reply 3):
Thank you so much for these threads, they have good data!



agreed. thanks enilria, these OAG update threads are always great.


User currently offlineqqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2266 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (3 years 12 months 5 hours ago) and read 9480 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
JFK-GIG 1>0 NOV- (?) Svc Start Cxld

It's still scheduled to start 18Nov, and it's still for sale.

Quoting Macsog6 (Reply 1):
when does this go to 2X so it can go back up to 3X in Feb?

The third flight is discontinued 17Nov and returns 10Feb. Why it's reduced during the winter months is anybody's guess. AA adds a fair amount of lift to ski destinations in the winter. So why then would they reduce RNO?



The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7039 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (3 years 12 months 5 hours ago) and read 9408 times:

Quoting Macsog6 (Reply 1):
Seeing as AA has 3Xday now, when does this go to 2X so it can go back up to 3X in Feb?

Mid-Nov it goes to 2RT.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 2):
They do this every year. November marks the start of slow season in Chicago and high season in Miami. It only makes sense to shift the capacity on a seasonal level. They tend to shift it back come late April.

You can say that, but I've never seen a cut that big in ORD and I've been watching the OAG for a lot of years. I might buy that the MIA increase is just slightly bigger than normal, but not the ORD cut.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 4):
agreed. thanks enilria, these OAG update threads are always great.

Thank you. I thrive on praise.  


User currently offlineMiAAmi From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 569 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 12 months 5 hours ago) and read 9274 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
JFK-GIG 1>0 NOV- (?) Svc Start Cxld
MIA-CMH 1>2 NOV-

JFK-GIG is starting on NOV 18 as planned
MIA-CMH is going from 1 daily to 3


User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 12 months 4 hours ago) and read 9109 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 6):
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 2):
They do this every year. November marks the start of slow season in Chicago and high season in Miami. It only makes sense to shift the capacity on a seasonal level. They tend to shift it back come late April.

You can say that, but I've never seen a cut that big in ORD and I've been watching the OAG for a lot of years. I might buy that the MIA increase is just slightly bigger than normal, but not the ORD cut.

It would be difficult to move capacity one for one from ORD to MIA. MIA simply does not have the same connection opportunities or O&D as ORD. Therefore, if they were beginning to draw down ORD, they would have to remove capacity (aircraft) from their system.

I am not aware of any accelerated aircraft retirements by AA. Sounds like part of this is seasonal related.


User currently offlineFutureUScapt From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (3 years 12 months 4 hours ago) and read 9071 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 6):
You can say that, but I've never seen a cut that big in ORD and I've been watching the OAG for a lot of years. I might buy that the MIA increase is just slightly bigger than normal, but not the ORD cut.

True, but isn't that likely due to the fact that ORD saw a greater than normal increase (speaking purely on the number of flights, not ASMs) this summer than in any recent summer?


User currently offlineMacsog6 From Singapore, joined Jan 2010, 525 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 12 months 3 hours ago) and read 8911 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting enilria (Reply 6):
Thank you. I thrive on praise.

You certainly have mine. I lurked around the site for a while before joining and will freely admit that your posts on schedule changes were a big reason for my joining.

You do us all a service!



Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7528 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (3 years 12 months 2 hours ago) and read 8748 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AA
Big shift from ORD to MIA. Also, markedly increased svc from CLE. AA is expecting the CLE capacity to move to ORD and is proactively shifting IMHO. Even with the increase in MIA, it is still a big net decrease. This is effectively the STL capacity that was moved to ORD before. Makes you wonder about AA's viability in ORD now.

Again, thanks for posting the data, but don't be so quick to draw such drastic conclusions.
Yes, there is a lot of seasonal influence on AA's schedule. AA typically increases flights on a number of MIA flights each year beginning in November. On the same token it is very common to see ORD and/or DFW frequencies reduced during the winter in certain months. It does not make you wonder about AA's viability in ORD. Frequency reductions during the slower time of the year are very common.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5359 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (3 years 12 months 1 hour ago) and read 8641 times:

And of course there are some good sized cities in the central and western U.S. (and don't worry, I'm not going to list them) that AA has continued to NOT connect with their big, ever-growing, incredible, super-duper hub of MIA; but they ARE all connected with multiple daily flights to O'Hare (and DFW.)

(I continue to be confused by the fact that ever since the AA philosophy-shift that I keep hearing about here on A.net, of connecting most spoke-stations only with AA's primary hubs -- which supposedly include MIA -- how a handful of good-sized AA cities are STILL not connected to that major hub...)

bb


User currently offlinejetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3252 posts, RR: 35
Reply 13, posted (3 years 12 months 1 hour ago) and read 8588 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 11):
Again, thanks for posting the data, but don't be so quick to draw such drastic conclusions.
Yes, there is a lot of seasonal influence on AA's schedule. AA typically increases flights on a number of MIA flights each year beginning in November. On the same token it is very common to see ORD and/or DFW frequencies reduced during the winter in certain months. It does not make you wonder about AA's viability in ORD. Frequency reductions during the slower time of the year are very common.

I'd also point out that frequency comparisons leave out a significant part of the story when they don't also include seat capacity change. For example, we all know that Delta is decreasing overall fleet count but system capacity is actually slated to grow slightly. This is the result in the removal of SF3/CRJ/D9S equipment and the addition of M90/738's to the fleet. So markets can lose frequency but actually increase seats.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32620 posts, RR: 72
Reply 14, posted (3 years 12 months ago) and read 8499 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
This is effectively the STL capacity that was moved to ORD before. Makes you wonder about AA's viability in ORD now.

Absolutely not. Capacity is moving south to Miami during the winter. How does that not make sense?

MIA has never seen this much Eagle service...ever.



a.
User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1071 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7719 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AA is expecting the CLE capacity to move to ORD and is proactively shifting IMHO.
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Makes you wonder about AA's viability in ORD now.

All but a handful of the ORD frequency reductions are seasonal only and are firmly scheduled to return on 5th April 2011. Similarly, many of the MIA frequency additions are seasonal and are firmly scheduled to end on 4th April 2011. There is nothing unusual about seasonally moving capacity around to meet demand.

Also, it’s worth pointing out that some of the markets you list as being reduced have no change to them in reality because the frequency “reduction” is not a reduction at all over the current levels -:

ORD-CVG is only 7x daily now and will not be changed
ORD-DTW is only 7x daily now and will not be changed
ORD-IND is only 8x daily now and will not be changed
ORD-BDL is only 5x daily now (not 6x) and is reduced by only 1 flight to 4x daily
ORD-CLT is only 5x daily now (not 6x) and is reduced by only 1 flight to 4x daily

So, part of the “big decrease in capacity” you are talking about is removing capacity that was never there in the first place. It’s just an artefact of comparing the advance dummy winter schedule with the real one.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
This is effectively the STL capacity that was moved to ORD before.

Not even close. The capacity being removed for the winter is nowhere near the amount that was added this spring when AA closed down the STL hub.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Even with the increase in MIA, it is still a big net decrease.

No, it's not big. With the changes made last weekend, 21x daily Eagle flights were taken out of the winter ORD schedule and 14x daily were added to the Miami schedule. The difference is merely because the MIA flights are longer than the ORD flights they replace. A slight correction to your list is that MIA-CMH actually gets 2x additional flights for 3x daily and an additional MIA-JAX was also loaded bringing it up to 5x daily from 4x.

Quoting enilria (Reply 6):
I've never seen a cut that big in ORD and I've been watching the OAG for a lot of years. I might buy that the MIA increase is just slightly bigger than normal, but not the ORD cut.

It’s no different from previous years, except perhaps its spread across slightly more markets (probably due to the fact that more markets are now being served from ORD than before). As jetlanta said above, frequency is only one part of the story. If AA suspended 1x ORD-BOS flight on a 738, it would be roughly the same capacity loss as if they suspended four ERD flights in four separate markets. But by writing a list in this way, the latter would appear four times as much which is not the case.

Plus, this year, the summer schedule had been loaded indefinitely in most Eagle ORD markets because AA did not know how things would go with all the new additions made this year. They always knew they were going to cut capacity for the winter schedule, they just did not know exactly where, so until they did, they had the full summer schedule loaded. Previous years had some reductions already loaded in the dummy schedule before it was finalized, so they won’t have shown up as changes.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 11):
Yes, there is a lot of seasonal influence on AA's schedule. AA typically increases flights on a number of MIA flights each year beginning in November. On the same token it is very common to see ORD and/or DFW frequencies reduced during the winter in certain months. It does not make you wonder about AA's viability in ORD. Frequency reductions during the slower time of the year are very common.

  

[Edited 2010-08-05 08:11:32]


Ryan / HKG
User currently offlinenkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2660 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7061 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
NK
FLL-ZSA 0>1/WK DEC-

I believe Spirit is doing this now and has done so for years.. its operated for Club Med. Sat. only flight



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7039 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6407 times:

Quoting MiAAmi (Reply 7):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
JFK-GIG 1>0 NOV- (?) Svc Start Cxld
MIA-CMH 1>2 NOV-

JFK-GIG is starting on NOV 18 as planned
MIA-CMH is going from 1 daily to 3

As always, you can take it up with AA as to why they file what they do, I only report it.

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 9):
Quoting enilria (Reply 6):
You can say that, but I've never seen a cut that big in ORD and I've been watching the OAG for a lot of years. I might buy that the MIA increase is just slightly bigger than normal, but not the ORD cut.

True, but isn't that likely due to the fact that ORD saw a greater than normal increase (speaking purely on the number of flights, not ASMs) this summer than in any recent summer?

Also speculative. The CLE increases which go against the grain of the move tell me this is merger related.

Quoting Macsog6 (Reply 10):
You do us all a service!

 
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
Absolutely not. Capacity is moving south to Miami during the winter. How does that not make sense?

MIA has never seen this much Eagle service...ever.

The fact that they didn't update the schedule past April 2011 doesn't mean much...yet. We'll see.

Regardless, AA will be under enormous pressure at ORD if UA consolidates CLE into a bigger ORD.


User currently offlineFlaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1261 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6123 times:

I'm rather surprised to see DL increasing CVG-PIT even though its only one flight.

User currently offlineSeatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 756 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6101 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 17):
Regardless, AA will be under enormous pressure at ORD if UA consolidates CLE into a bigger ORD.

Why? I would venture to guess that most of what CO is doing out of CLE, is similar to what AA and UA already compete for out of ORD. In the scheme of things, CLE isn't so big that its demise would be enormous for anyone.


User currently offlineFlaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1261 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5954 times:

Quoting Seatback (Reply 19):
Why? I would venture to guess that most of what CO is doing out of CLE, is similar to what AA and UA already compete for out of ORD. In the scheme of things, CLE isn't so big that its demise would be enormous for anyone.

I dont think it will be noticed at all outside of CLE. ORD/EWR/IAD will absorb that traffic like a dry sponge.


User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 645 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5897 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Even with the increase in MIA, it is still a big net decrease. This is effectively the STL capacity that was moved to ORD before. Makes you wonder about AA's viability in ORD now.

As others have stated, even with the planned reduction in Winter 2011, there's still many more flights tan compared to Winter 2010.

I have the following data for Winter 2009 (Feb 16 to Feb 22 2009), Winter 2010 (Jan 18 to Jan 24) and Summer 2010 (Jul 19 to Jul 25):

In winter 2009, AA operated 2897 weekly flights from ORD, 1579 of which were MQ flights.

In winter 2010, AA operated 2848 flights from ORD, 1613 of which were MQ flights.

In summer 2010, when the STL capacity was moved to ORD, AA has operated 3320 flights from ORD (~ 474 daily), 2094 of which were MQ flights (~ 299 daily). That means 472 additional weekly flights (+ 67 daily).

If 21x daily flights are removed from ORD in winter 2011, AA will operate around 453 daily flights, which still are 47 more flights than compared to Winter 2010.


User currently onlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2856 posts, RR: 30
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5822 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Big shift from ORD to MIA.

Virtually all of it seasonal. People visit Chicago in the summer. People visit Miami in the winter. This trend will be reversed come late spring when Miami heat becomes oppressive and Chicago starts to thaw out.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Also, markedly increased svc from CLE. AA is expecting the CLE capacity to move to ORD and is proactively shifting IMHO.

The writing isn't on the wall for CLE yet. Many speculated a swift and rapid demise of CVG and MEM, yet both are still hubs today (though CVG has lost quite a few flights, it is still a "hub"). CLE won't be going anywhere before the merger is approved, and probably will be retained during the integration process to avoid creating an angry bunch of CO employees that could thwart approval of key contracts.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Makes you wonder about AA's viability in ORD now.

No it doesn't. If AA was dropping frequencies on routes like ORD-BOS/LGA/DCA/SFO (or pulling out of any of this year's new Eagle markets) I'd be getting worried, but they are just trimming a frequency or two to weak Midwestern, Southern, and Eastern Eagle markets during the slow winter months. Most of these flights will probably be back by next summer without much fanfare.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9
DEN-ASE 2>0 OCT-

Certainly sad to see ASE go. Maybe once the runway is lengthened they will be able to go in there with the E-jets.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
NK
FLL-ZSA 0>1/WK DEC-

What is ZSA?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

YV
LIH-OGG 0>1 SEP-

Will this be flown in both directions? I only because IIRC HA flies it one way but not the other. Surely between locals (VFR) and tourists there has to be enough demand to fill a plane that bypasses HNL and to directly link Maui with Kauai.

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 5):
Why it's reduced during the winter months is anybody's guess. AA adds a fair amount of lift to ski destinations in the winter. So why then would they reduce RNO?

RNO isn't just a ski market though. You also have the casinos and lakeside activities (fishing, boating, camping, etc.) that are great during the warm months but not during the winter. Whereas relatively few people can ski, just about everyone can play in and around the lake. Not at all surprising to see fewer flights during the coldest winter months!



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7039 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5785 times:

Quoting Seatback (Reply 19):
Why? I would venture to guess that most of what CO is doing out of CLE, is similar to what AA and UA already compete for out of ORD. In the scheme of things, CLE isn't so big that its demise would be enormous for anyone.

You misunderstand. Here is the math of it. CO is almost certainly losing money at CLE. UA can choose to park that capacity or move it to ORD. If they move it to ORD it will almost certainly perform better than it did at CLE. I say that because the hub is so much bigger and thus will have exponentially more connections than CLE had. For AA the equation is quite different. More seats at ORD is going to reduce AA's performance at ORD. More capacity is always bad for P and L, all things being equal. It's different for UA in this case because it can lose money and still be better than CLE; and UA will retain some of the CLE connecting traffic at ORD so for UA it's not really more capacity, it's just a shift to a partial extent.

BTW don't fixate on where these planes physically fly from CLE. They may not need another MKE-ORD, for example, but the existing MKE-ORD flights will benefit from the shift of CLE capacity to ORD. I expect the increase in ORD capacity from the merger will primarily come in top 15 markets which will both hurt AA the most and provide more connecting seats to the smaller cities losing CLE as a connecting option.

Quoting realsim (Reply 21):
If 21x daily flights are removed from ORD in winter 2011, AA will operate around 453 daily flights, which still are 47 more flights than compared to Winter 2010.

Ok, it's 1/3 of the STL capacity. The real question is did they drop 21 ORD flights at this time last year.


User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1071 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5663 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
Ok, it's 1/3 of the STL capacity. The real question is did they drop 21 ORD flights at this time last year.

Just to be clear, I never said AA was dropping 21x flights this winter, I said 21x flights were taken out this weekend with that schedule update alone. Other frequency changes were already loaded before this weekend, such as the addition of ski markets (EGE/JAC), seasonal markets (PSP etc.), boosted frequencies to Florida (FLL, RSW, PBI), suspension of FCO/FRA/DUB and other domestic frequency adjustments (both additions and cuts).
I’ll post later with exactly how many flights AA/Eagle will have this winter compared to now and compared to last winter.

Further, remember that the ORD operation is about 60 flights larger this summer than last summer so going into this winter, a larger reduction in terms of flights would be expected, if it were the same proportionally as last year.

[Edited 2010-08-05 14:57:14]


Ryan / HKG
25 PSU.DTW.SCE : Sorry, I think a lot of us just don't follow your logic here. You are reading way to deep into the AA ORD frequency adjustments and trying to connect
26 pshifrin : ZSA is San Salvador Bahamas. I've been on this RT flight twice. It operates as a charter for Club Med to Columbus Isle (walking distance to the airpor
27 GlobalCabotage : Seasonal adjustments at ORD/MIA. If UA/CO consolidate CLE into ORD,expect AA to respond. If AA doesn't respond, they are toast, but B6 will move in at
28 Flaps : That is virtually word for word what US said about PIT shortly before each reduction.
29 steex : It's also what AA said about STL as recently as 2007 or so.
30 greenair727 : . CO carries about 6m pax/yr at CLE. 1) that is a big number, and 2) it is too big a number to be easily absorbed by other airports. Besides, CLE may
31 FlyPNS1 : Between IAD and ORD, that number could easily be absorbed. Many people forget that IAD can actually replace much of the flows over CLE.
32 Seatback : True. With the capacity restraints at ORD there's only so much room to grow, so I don't expect too much ORD absorbtion. I agree, if the O&D numbe
33 enilria : First of all Delta just tried to give back virtually all their facilities in CVG and they are playing nice while slowly dropping routes every week in
34 flyguy89 : It's not a specific agreement between the airport board and DL but a state law where if you're going to offer incentives to attract a business, you h
35 Post contains links and images mrSTL : I finished reading this article just five minutes before reading your post. The article says they have begun preliminary discussions to shift control
36 Seatback : I just saw this right after I posted my comments. I agree. I think it will go away too. I was just wondering if they have a bunch of regional jets an
37 Post contains links enilria : http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...ay-consider-buying-Comair-CFO-says I'm sure they will grow ORD as a result of this merger and they will close C
38 flyguy89 : Very interesting article and it sounds like it might be a tough decision for the airport board to make. Ideally they should just take back concourse
39 MAH4546 : I noticed some MIA changes for Delta and United. At the end of October, UA will add one daily each to MIA-ORD and MIA-IAD; in mid-December DL will add
40 N587NK : Yes we have been doing this for several years now, so I was curious about this "change" so I looked a little into it. it looks like it doesnt operate
41 enilria : Here's the problem. If they accept the cost of these facilities in order to keep the focus city alive another year, the cost of those facilities will
42 flyguy89 : I'd be curious as to how much there is left to pay on the terminal 3 facilities. Concourse A is about 20 years old and the rest of the T3 complex is
43 ckfred : Actually, the only limits on capcity are the the gates. The operations limits were removed by the FAA, when 9L-27R opened in November, 2008. You have
44 craazy : Yet even with the larger number of cuts so far this year, at the winter lows AA still will have 44 more daily departures or an increase of 11% YOY.
45 MAH4546 : Exactly, but some people get too carried away with limited figured. AA is very committed to Chicago and will continue to grow in the region.
46 WA707atMSP : I visited ZSA two years ago, and I agree that it is a beautiful island. San Salvador's claim to fame is that it is allegedly the first place in the n
47 enilria : I would assume DL is also trying to stick the airport with the construction bonds. I think that's pretty clear. The Comair building is brand new and
48 flyguy89 : I'm not sure, maybe some one that might have the particulars on the financing could clarify. The Comair terminal was built circa 1998ish, and anyone
49 DFWEagle : So, using these figures, the bottom line is this -: Last winter, AA cut 16 daily flights out of 419, which is 3.8% This winter, AA is cutting 27 dail
50 enilria : The Comair HQ just opened. That's what I'm talking about. There is an article above about the facilities in question and that is listed as newly open
51 MAH4546 : You keep trying to make an argument out of absolutely nothing. There is no other "round" of cuts. AA/MQ have already rolled out the big winter schedu
52 DFWEagle : It depends on the magnitude of such cuts. I just don't believe what we have seen so far represents a significant enough reduction in capacity to indi
53 enilria : Typically they hit the low in ORD operations during January.
54 LipeGIG : Don't know the exact reason, but JFK-GIG and MIA-BSB are not on the system and all research i made do not show them on AA.com. I believe they was req
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