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UA To MAN In Summer 2011?  
User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 602 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7676 times:

What are the chances of a merged UA/CO starting MAN-IAD and MAN-ORD next summer? My buddies in Chicago say this is being looked at along with ORD-ICN.

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7662 times:

I'd say it's a possibility for sure on either a CO 757 or UA 763.


"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineBOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7483 times:

I could see one or both happening on a CO 752. A 764 seems too big, 762 is just wrong (too premium-heavy) and certainly not a UA 763, which again is very premium-heavy and even has F, which I don't think would be appropriate for this route (cf. IAD-MAD).

ORD-MAN seems more likely to me than IAD-MAN for some reason ... just gut instinct.

Now, why ORD-ICN? This is already served by OZ, which is a joint-venture partner of UA. Is this currently underserved? How about EWR-ICN, a Star hub-to-hub route that nobody serves? (If ORD could sustain two UA/OZ flights to ICN, surely NYC could, one being from the massive EWR hub.)



Getting There is Half the Fun!
User currently offlineMYT332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 71
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7178 times:

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 2):
ORD-MAN seems more likely to me than IAD-MAN for some reason ... just gut instinct.

BMI used to operate MAN-ORD and they're in Star Alliance. Maybe that's part of it. It's funny though, at the time MAN-ORD was operated by both that BD 332 and an AA 763. Now we just have the AA service and that's with the 752. I guess I should also note that BD did also operate MAN-IAD with the 332 although they pulled that many moons ago.



One Life, Live it.
User currently offlinedavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7360 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7116 times:
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Quoting MYT332 (Reply 3):
BD did also operate MAN-IAD with the 332 although they pulled that many moons ago.

Have we forgotten how they had it 6 weekly, then withdrew it to operate for SA, reinstated it at 6 weekly, culled it to 2 weekly and then bring in a FI 757 6 weekly. Known as how to ruin a route in 1 easy lesson.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 2):
762 is just wrong (too premium-heavy)

of the routes BD had, ORD is the one that is reputed to have done best - as long as any route brought in by UA does not try to charge the earth for J as BD started to at the end, then a 762 may be a suitable aircraft for it.


User currently offlineualcsr From United States of America, joined May 2006, 485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6122 times:

Didn't UA operate ORD-SEL a long time ago?

User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 602 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4707 times:

UA flew ORD-SEL on an SP about 20 years ago (after NW started the route).

OZ does fly ORD-ICN, but only a few times a week with a late departures and early arrival +2. KE is doing the route the way it should be and UA will offer a similar departure from ORD, but the return will arrive ORD around 3 pm, a great time for connections! I don't know why people on this forum say this won't work, but would be perfect from DFW or DTW.


User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2490 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4446 times:

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Thread starter):
My buddies in Chicago say this is being looked at along with ORD-ICN.
Quoting GlobalCabotage (Reply 6):
OZ does fly ORD-ICN, but only a few times a week with a late departures and early arrival +2. KE is doing the route the way it should be and UA will offer a similar departure from ORD, but the return will arrive ORD around 3 pm, a great time for connections!

If that's the case, thank goodness - the connections through NRT are a deal breaker. That said, OZ's service would be tough to beat. The bigger questions would be: what airframe would UA use and, if it's a 777, where is it going to come from, assuming of course this is pre UA-CO merger.

777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlinedanfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1810 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4216 times:

What's the chance of CO existing EWR service being upgraded? Apparently both daily flghts have good Loads and AA and DL end their seasonal services to JFK in September.


Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
User currently offlinedavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7360 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4208 times:
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Quoting danfearn77 (Reply 8):
DL end their seasonal services to JFK in September

DL is running all year round, looks to be 6 weekly in October with 5 weekly ops in the winter timetable. June stats for MAN-JFK shows more than a doubling in passenger numbers to over 20,000. Hopefully the pointy end of the planes have been quite full! In fact, JFK had more pax than EWR.


User currently offlinedanfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1810 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4178 times:

Quoting david_itl (Reply 9):

Really that's good then I wasn't aware it was year round. It's a good route for DL too I think.



Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4863 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4146 times:
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Quoting david_itl (Reply 9):
DL is running all year round, looks to be 6 weekly in October with 5 weekly ops in the winter timetable. June stats for MAN-JFK shows more than a doubling in passenger numbers to over 20,000.

DL has also temporarily upgauged JFK-MAN to a 763ER (started around August 4) through September 6. The 752 returns to JFK-MAN starting Sept 7.


User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4003 times:

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 2):

Now, why ORD-ICN? This is already served by OZ, which is a joint-venture partner of UA.

OZ is just a codeshare partner with UA, and UA does not even code on that trip.

They are not a joint venture partner, there is a huge difference between a JV and a Codeshare.

-m

  


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4227 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3924 times:
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Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 2):
ORD-MAN seems more likely to me than IAD-MAN for some reason ... just gut instinct.

IAD had *both* 332 and 752 service to Manchester, and both failed.
The commercial traffic (at least to the DC area) doesn't seem to be there.

However, pharmaceutical firm traffic to Philadelphia and Pittsburgh spikes USAirways MAN traffic up the pike in PHL.


User currently offlineBOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3510 times:

Quoting david_itl (Reply 4):
as long as any route brought in by UA does not try to charge the earth for J as BD started to at the end, then a 762 may be a suitable aircraft for it.

I'm not sure why UA would use the 762 on this route. This is an airplane for routes that are extremely premium-heavy and/or "thin" (i.e., too long to fly with a 752). It is even less likely than a 763, I think, though the 763 has F.

I think the 752 is most likely though, at least to start with.

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 12):
OZ is just a codeshare partner with UA, and UA does not even code on that trip.

Hmm ... I am clearly not paying close enough attention.   I thought there was or was soon to be a UA/CO/NH/OZ JV over the Pacific.



Getting There is Half the Fun!
User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3393 times:

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 14):
I think the 752 is most likely though, at least to start with.

Agreed but if they can also work some feed with BD I think longer term we will see something bigger on the route, thats of course they start the thing in the first instance which IMHO will happen.

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 14):
I thought there was or was soon to be a UA/CO/NH/OZ JV over the Pacific.

I dont think OZ are part of the JV its just UA/CO and NH....for now, maybe others will join later?


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4227 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3293 times:
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Quoting MYT332 (Reply 3):
I should also note that BD did also operate MAN-IAD with the 332 although they pulled that many moons ago.

BD replaced MAN-IAD with a wet-leased 752 which was not practical for the MAN-ORD route.


BMI [Icelandair wet-lease] at Washington-Dulles in 2006


User currently offlinemyt332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 71
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3232 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 16):
BD replaced MAN-IAD with a wet-leased 752 which was not practical for the MAN-ORD route.

I know, I remember it well. I was just explaining to BOACCunard that BD ran it a few years ago.



One Life, Live it.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24785 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3002 times:

Well give it to the end of the year, and once the merger closes, technically United will be flying to Manchester.

Now one of the issues with United trying MAN with its own equipment is that its aircraft are configured 3-class premium heavy and not really appropriate for the revenue mix that MAN could generate.
So if anything instead of its own aircraft it would need to serve the market as it does with Madrid using the Aer Lingus joint venture A330, or in the future former CO 2-class aircraft that are less premium heavy cabins.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9483 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2905 times:

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 2):
Now, why ORD-ICN? This is already served by OZ, which is a joint-venture partner of UA. Is this currently underserved? How about EWR-ICN, a Star hub-to-hub route that nobody serves? (If ORD could sustain two UA/OZ flights to ICN, surely NYC could, one being from the massive EWR hub.)

SFO-ICN isn't even a daily flight. The only chance I see ORD-ICN would be on less than weekly service. SFO-ICN could go daily and NRT-ICN tag could end. However that does not increase the overall ICN service with UA.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24785 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2864 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 19):
SFO-ICN isn't even a daily flight. The only chance I see ORD-ICN would be on less than weekly service. SFO-ICN could go daily and NRT-ICN tag could end. However that does not increase the overall ICN service with UA.

SFO-ICN is daily, and this year got an upgauge to 744 even.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 602 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2592 times:

Yes, DFW-ICN can handle KE and AA, but ORD-ICN can't handle KE (daily), OZ 3 times weekly (with late ORD departure), and ORD morning departure. I don't get it.

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