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New Zealand Aviation Thread #81  
User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 870 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 16175 times:

Welcome to the 81st edition of the New Zealand Aviation Thread.
In thread #80 New Zealand Aviation Thread #80 we discussed:

  • - NZ's new A320's
  • - First NZ 77W flights
  • - Peter Jackson's new Gulfstream 550
  • - WLG Airport charges
  • - Steven Udvar-Hazy
  • - DJ's Ejets
  • - Rugby World Cup
  • - DJ's 2011 Domestic Schedule
  • - NZ's 763 seating
  • - Air Asia X
  • - JQ CNS-AKL & MEL-AKL
  • - NZ's China flights
  • - NZ 744 retirements and use beyond 2012
  • - Suggested NZ 787 scenarios
  • - Delayed introduction of NZ's first 77W
  • - Skycouch
  • - Possible MEL-AKL extension of AI DEL-MEL 77W
  • - Tiger operations/reputation
  • - NZ's LAX lounge


212 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 870 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 16137 times:

DavidByrne Reply 222 of Thread #80

In the Apr-Jul 2011 NZ Timetable there are still no 744's showing other than AKL-BNE-AKL on Thu and Sat. The 3 77W's daily on AKL-LAX-LHR as expected, plus 11 77E's. Assuming 2 744's on the Tue-Sun NZ6/NZ5 leaves 9 77E's. One of these is only required from Sat morning till Sun evening with a Sat AKL-MEL-AKL and Sun AKL-BNE-AKL which could be done by the NZ2/NZ1 77W or NZ6/NZ5 744.

So only Sat evening to Sun morning for one aircraft to bring the total down to 8 actual 77E's, and that's not allowing for a 77E out for an upgrade. It still means a third 744 will need to go somewhere 744's don't usually go in NZ's Northern Summer Timetable. The Wed Fri Sun AKL-YVR-AKL could continue as a 744, with an extra flight from Nov 2011, or NRT could go 744 again.

From next year Argentina joins the Tri-Nations Rugby, presumably to become the Four Nations, so more contact there may encourage an AKL-EZE-AKL twice a week with connections to GRU. A through flight would guarantee connections to GRU but the timing may not be perfect for Australian connections and/or require an extra crew. QF presently does SYD-EZE-SYD three times a week.


AnStar Reply 223 of Thread #80

Asked the question a few threads ago and was told AKL-HKG-LHR would remain 77E. However the way the Apr-Jul 2011 Timetable has been presented without disclosing where the 744's go suggests it's possible, especially as there will be a slight capacity reduction on AKL-LAX-LHR when it goes 77W, but that reduction could be offset by returning AKL-HKG-LHR to a daily 77E.

PA515

[Edited 2010-08-08 10:18:37]

User currently offline767er From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 16022 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 209):
Three weeks ago I considered going to the AC lounge so that the four of us could sit together

Quoting Kairahi Reply 219
They wont let you in unless you have an AC ticket.

Yes they will, so long as you are *G.



Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 15972 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting 767er (Reply 2):
Quoting koruman (Reply 209):
Three weeks ago I considered going to the AC lounge so that the four of us could sit together

Quoting Kairahi Reply 219
They wont let you in unless you have an AC ticket.

Yes they will, so long as you are *G.

As long as your flying on a Star Alliance members flight that day and your Star Gold then your allowed into any star members lounge.


User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1634 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 15951 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 1):
From next year Argentina joins the Tri-Nations Rugby, presumably to become the Four Nations,

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that this happens in 2012. Not that an NZ team travelling (once) to EZE and an Argentine team (which may use AR anyway) travelling once to NZ would support a year-round twice-weekly AKL-EZE service! Other teams may use AKL-EZE services if they are already in NZ, but for the most part they'll probably be travelling from their home countries direct to Argentina - and without a stopover in NZ being required.



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 870 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 15855 times:

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 4):
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that this happens in 2012. Not that an NZ team travelling (once) to EZE and an Argentine team (which may use AR anyway) travelling once to NZ would support a year-round twice-weekly AKL-EZE service! Other teams may use AKL-EZE services if they are already in NZ, but for the most part they'll probably be travelling from their home countries direct to Argentina - and without a stopover in NZ being required.

Your understanding is correct. Saturday's NZ Herald says from 2012. And I agree that alone will not support a year round twice weekly flight. It is just an example of increased contact with Argentina/Brasil and an obvious gap in the Star Alliance network for RTW fares. It would also be a stopover option for fares between NZ and Europe with other Star Alliance carriers such as JJ, LH & TP.

PA515


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7171 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 15824 times:

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 4):
year-round twice-weekly AKL-EZE service!

Put it this way. If YVR can justify twice a week year round, and AR have been flying to EZE route for 30 years profitably then it's sustainable... EZE has the problem maybe that there isn't enough Star Alliance feed, even though JJ flies from EZE direct to Florianopolis, Asuncion,Ciudad del Este ,Porto Alegre , Rio de Janeiro, Sao Paulo, Curitiba and One stop to Cochabamba,Santa Cruz, Brazilia,Belo Horizonte,Salvador and most of the larger cities in Brazil.

The advantage of GRU over the other two is that JJ serves LHR/CDG/MXP in Europe with SA to JNB & LH/LX onward to FRA/ZRH which means it can become another competitive 1 stop fare option.

I actually think if 17 a week to LAX/SFO is sustainable then 2x a week to EZE and 3x a week to GRU/GIG must also be sustainable - You're talking about a combined metro population of nearly 36.5 million people a large number of which travel for business/leisure and can afford to pay for it.

Unfortunately the small minded perception of New Zealand MFAT is that Brazil is dangerous, which had to change because it's biased and incorrect.

With direct services I'd probably be going to Brazil about 3-4x a year - it's no more dangerous than heading for any other big urban population.


User currently offlinealangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 15806 times:

The AirNZ Chairman who took over in 1982, when Norman Geary became CEO wanted AirNZ to fly to Sao Paolo back in 1982! I wonder how the market would have grown if AirNZ had been flying there for the last 30 years.

User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1634 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 15768 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 6):
Put it this way. If YVR can justify twice a week year round, and AR have been flying to EZE route for 30 years profitably then it's sustainable...

I don't doubt there's a market, just that rugby is only going to be a very small part of it. And I'm also conscious that with AR and QF (and LA) all selling tickets between Australasia and Argentina, it's not as if the route is there for NZ's taking. And as per previous discussions, unless NZ can find some aircraft somewhere, or keeps more than two 744s, the carrier won't have the means to open new routes anyway until 2013 when the 789s start to arrive . . . hopefully.



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlinethefuture From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 15670 times:

from thread #80

Kor guy

"For a business trip, planned a little bit ahead TT are so much cheaper, it's stupid.

That's where you are wrong. The difference is reliability, and it makes Tiger untouchable.

I have sign-off on the travel of around twenty colleagues with one employer near OOL where I am contracted, and it is absolutely explicit within the organisation that we are not under any circumstances to prospectively authorise travel on Tiger, although we can reimburse receipts. There is a very good reason for this. We have been badly burned by Tiger on two counts. Firstly, staff travelling to same-day meetings have failed to arrive because TT cancelled their flights. Secondly, when TT have cancelled flights, our staff have ended up booking higher last-minute fares on DJ, JQ and QF, and the final cost has been massively inflated.

As an employer you just can't trust TT - it is the archetypal "false economy"."

When did QF resume flying into OOL ?

JQ otherwise known as Junkstar don't have a very good reputation for cancelling flights.

To say one airline does it more than others is very misleading, they all do, it's called survival.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15476 times:

Thefuture is again disputing my opinion that Tiger can never take any serious slice of the corporate market because of theit tendency to cancel flights at short notice, refunding the passengers but leaving them to fend for themselves.

The main corporate markets in New Zealand are the AKL/CHC/WLG triangle and services between there and SYD/MEL/BNE.

Three times a year I attend a board meeting in Melbourne of a binational organisation, with representatives attending from both AKL and CHC. Those delegates simply could not put their trust in Tiger if it flew those routes, because there is simply no guarantee of getting to the meeting.

I don't see New Zealand aviation as being overpriced. I think that NZ offer good value, while Jetstar cater for the price-sensitive who can afford to be delayed if part of a small fleet goes tech.

So I struggle to see why anyone would want to add anything else further down the bottom of the market, or why it would make money.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6408 posts, RR: 38
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15467 times:

New Zealand to consider increased Mideast air traffic

Well we'll soon know if QR, EY etc can get rights..



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently onlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2950 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15419 times:

Quoting 767er (Reply 2):
Quoting Kairahi Reply 219
They wont let you in unless you have an AC ticket.

Yes they will, so long as you are *G.
Quoting 777ER (Reply 3):
As long as your flying on a Star Alliance members flight that day and your Star Gold then your allowed into any star members lounge.

Don't take everything you on the * website at face value. Lounge access is not blanket.

In the case of AC, you can use the lounge only if the the other * partner doesn't have their own lounge. In LAX, they'll send you back to the NZ lounge. Similarly, in SFO, NZ has an agreement for use of the UA lounge; you can't get into the (much nicer) SQ lounge even if you're * Gold. At IAD, you can use the UA lounge if you have an AC ticket, but not the (much nicer) LH lounge; conversely, with a UA ticket, you can use the LH lounge (UA pays LH an entry fee for each UA pax). And no holder of a ticket on another * airline can use the NH lounge at IAD



Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offline767er From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 15260 times:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 12):
In the case of AC, you can use the lounge only if the the other * partner doesn't have their own lounge. In LAX, they'll send you back to the NZ lounge.

That is not entirely correct, though I don’t want to get into an argument over it.

I was at the NZ lounge at LAX last year and asked if I could check out the AC Lounge. The Concierge at the NZ lounge said since I was Gold there would not be a problem. So I pop next door and the miserable lounge dragon told me, in no uncertain terms, that unless I was flying AC I would not be admitted. I told her she was wrong that Star Gold are entitled to use the AC lounge. Admitting defeat, I went back to the NZ lounge and told the Concierge what had happened. ‘Right’ he said ‘come with me. I am sick of this happening’. He confronted the Lounge Dragon and made her look at the rule back. ‘Oh’ she said ‘ they must have changed the rules’. The wonderful NZ Concierge said ‘ No, they haven’t changed the rules. It has been like that for over 10 years’. The look on her face was priceless, as was mine.

NZ uses the Eva Lounge in SFO and I honestly don’t know if G can use the SQ Lounge - I think the opening hours don’t correspond with NZ flight times.



Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
User currently offlinetimb777 From New Zealand, joined Dec 2009, 201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 15242 times:

Quoting 767er (Reply 13):
NZ uses the Eva Lounge in SFO and I honestly don’t know if G can use the SQ Lounge - I think the opening hours don’t correspond with NZ flight times.

This i can confirm-the Eva Lounge is great, a big step up from the prior UA offering. I was still allowed in the UA lounge to have a look around with my Star Gold card. Unfortunaely the SQ lounge doesn't open until the NZ flight has departed (about 9.30pm by memory). The staff had arrived and were setting up the food etc just as everyone was leaving EVA for the 77E.

I was in SYD a couple of months ago, and was allowed into the SQ lounge with * gold, even though travelling on an NZ flight. The NZ lounge is much better though, but the Asian foods in the SQ lounge appealed more for dinner that evening. Have also used the SQ lounge in MEL while on NZ, so i guess SQ have a more relaxed policy than AC?


User currently offline767er From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 15240 times:

Quoting timb777 (Reply 14):
I was in SYD a couple of months ago, and was allowed into the SQ lounge with * gold, even though travelling on an NZ flight. The NZ lounge is much better though, but the Asian foods in the SQ lounge appealed more for dinner that evening.

I have been into the SQ Lounge twice when flying SQ and agree, the NZ Lounge is much better plus its open pretty much the entire time whereas the SQ Louneg has rather odd hours.



Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
User currently onlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2950 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 15157 times:

Quoting 767er (Reply 13):
NZ uses the Eva Lounge in SFO

That's new - the last time I travelled through SFO (December, 09) the only lounge available for NZ travellers was UA.

[Edited 2010-08-09 18:50:47]


Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offlinetimb777 From New Zealand, joined Dec 2009, 201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 15117 times:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 16):
That's new - the last time I travelled through SFO (December, 09) the only lounge available for NZ travellers was UA
http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz339/timboeing777/USA%202010/USA2010389.jpg

As of one month ago...


User currently offlinethefuture From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 14885 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 10):
Thefuture is again disputing my opinion that Tiger can never take any serious slice of the corporate market because of theit tendency to cancel flights at short notice, refunding the passengers but leaving them to fend for themselves.

NO, but your assertion (incorrect) that TT is the only one that cancel flights is simply not correct.

In current economy, many people will fly the cheapest & TT is cheapest 99% of time.

If they're not cheapest, it's becasue they are almost 100% full !!!

With the Aust economy heading south, no matter who wins the Aust Fed election in 9 days, it's going to be a hard sell selling tickets at upper end of scale.

At present TT has less flights EG. SYD/MEL than QF but they will keep rmping this up while they can still sell seats.

Last time I looked QF don't fly to low yield OOL, where it's perfect market for TT.


User currently offlinezkojh From China, joined Sep 2004, 1662 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 14736 times:

CX is to increase HKG-AKL to double daily and maybe further. It plans to increase its traffice by 4% from Decemebr 10 , along with other routes on its network.


NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6408 posts, RR: 38
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 14717 times:

Quoting zkojh (Reply 19):

Here's a statement contrary to that:

http://airlineroute.net/2010/08/10/cx-akl-nw10/

CX107/108 to daily 744 again between 13 Nov and 28 Feb, CX117/118 remains A3430, drops to 5x weekly.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinealangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 14588 times:

Quoting thefuture (Reply 18):
Thefuture is again disputing my opinion that Tiger can never take any serious slice of the corporate market because of theit tendency to cancel flights at short notice, refunding the passengers but leaving them to fend for themselves.

Cancellations at short notice are not just a problem for the corporate market. If people are on holiday, they do not need to be stressing about reading their emails all day, in case the airline has brought forward their return flight. Gold Coast is a holiday with some expensive ground content, so on the last day of your holiday, do you risk booking a theme park, to find your return flight is three hours earlier? So, tourists are better off paying an extra $200 per family for Jetstar or Virgin. Perhaps Thefuture has some statistics for how often JQ or DJ cancel compared with TT, and how often they put you on an earlier flight? Cancellations and delays can happen on any airline.

There are LCCs and there are LCCs. Perhaps TT's problem is that they have not achieved critical mass in their Australian operations. They do not have a big enough fleet in Australia, where hey can solve problems with their own resources. I do not know if it is shortage of planes or shortage of crews. Everyone knows it is expensive looking after passengers when there is a disruption - finding beds for 180 pax is a big job. TT should be able to cope with this by now.

I know we are all amateur airline analysts here, but there do seem have been some strange decisions made by TT since they started in Australia. Some strange start up routes, and refusal to fly to important cities like SYD and BNE, because of expensive airport charges. Avalon does not seem like an airport that will increase TT's business - people may well reject TT because they do not want to into Avalon.


The fact that TT is pulling out of Launceston shows that TT is not doing very well in this smaller market. MEL-CBR services operate at very unattractive times - -are they trying to kill that service as well?


It may only be a small thing like a change of attitude that makes all the difference. If TT does not want something like the EU regulation imposed on them, perhaps they could get in first. Crawford Rix as the new CEO has a chance to do something abut this. Does he want to be in charge of Australia's version of Ryanair or Australia's version of Globespan?


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 14576 times:
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Quoting thefuture (Reply 18):
NO, but your assertion (incorrect) that TT is the only one that cancel flights is simply not correct.

No one , including Koruman , is claiming that other airlines do not cancel flights , however , TT seems to have a higher incidence of cancelling at short notice , furthermore , TT seem quite happy to move a flight time forward at short notice which carriers a much higher risk of pax missing their flight , to the best of my knowledge few , if any , other carriers do this , they may delay at short notice , they may cancel at short notice, but they do not usually bring flight times forward at little or no notice .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinethefuture From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14500 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 22):
No one , including Koruman , is claiming that other airlines do not cancel flights , however , TT seems to have a higher incidence of cancelling at short notice , furthermore , TT seem quite happy to move a flight time forward at short notice which carriers a much higher risk of pax missing their flight , to the best of my knowledge few , if any , other carriers do this , they may delay at short notice , they may cancel at short notice, but they do not usually bring flight times forward at little or no notice .

Quite simply not true.

However, with lower frequency, the fall back position is not that good sometimes.

Look at BNE/ZQN. QF has one flight a week in winter only.

These flights get cancelled, esp. ZQN/BNE due to weather & then options are:-

1) milk run next day (accom at pax expense)

2) 7 hour bus to CHC

3) drive self to CHC


User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1634 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14487 times:

Quoting thefuture (Reply 23):
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 22):
No one , including Koruman , is claiming that other airlines do not cancel flights , however , TT seems to have a higher incidence of cancelling at short notice , furthermore , TT seem quite happy to move a flight time forward at short notice which carriers a much higher risk of pax missing their flight , to the best of my knowledge few , if any , other carriers do this , they may delay at short notice , they may cancel at short notice, but they do not usually bring flight times forward at little or no notice .

Quite simply not true.

However, with lower frequency, the fall back position is not that good sometimes.

Look at BNE/ZQN. QF has one flight a week in winter only.

These flights get cancelled, esp. ZQN/BNE due to weather & then options are:-

1) milk run next day (accom at pax expense)

2) 7 hour bus to CHC

3) drive self to CHC

If you had read what Kiwiandrew was saying instead of just bursting into print, you might have actually addressed the point he was making. His argument was that TT is the only carrier which seems to make a practice of bringing flights forward. I don't know what point you were addressing, but ti wasn't that one.



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
25 koruman : My economy ZQN-AKL-BNE was cancelled a couple of years ago, and Air NZ put me up at the Heritage. TT would just refund your fare and set you adrift.
26 ZKSUJ : In other news. I've just read that officials have found the body of the NZ 777 FO who was lost while treking in HKG.
27 mariner : That isn't the part that bothers me. If I fly LCC - and I've been doing so, on and off, for nearly twenty years - my expectations are immediately low
28 Post contains images sunrisevalley : Well said . My impression from reading the many posts to the 80 plus versions of this thread is that a number of the contributors are looking for som
29 luftaom : The whole point of a market economy is that anyone with the ability to enter the market can do so. If it doesn't work ( presumably because they don't
30 mariner : I understand exactly the point of the market economy. I have made my living in the purest of market economies. But I don't have to like the effect it
31 Post contains links zkojh : ''Air NZ eyes more flights for Tauranga'' Air New Zealand is reviewing flights in and out of Tauranga with more seats likely to be added and direct fl
32 DavidByrne : Yes, I saw this report yesterday, and was struck by the use of the word "resumed" in the context of CHC-TRG flights. As far as I was aware, the fligh
33 zkojh : Air New Zealand to end scheduled 747 service to Melbourne 09NOV10 As per 13AUG10 GDS timetable display, Air New Zealand’s last scheduled Boeing 747-
34 CHCalfonzo : Definitely the media up to their old tricks! CHC-TRG has been operating Monday to Friday since it's inception, like you said. I wonder if NZ would in
35 PA515 : From the quotes in the article I think an extra TRG-CHC is likely, which could be where the journalist got confused. There will be a Q300 available n
36 777ER : Having the new PPQ-AKL flights will certainly help TRG, but will the extra TRG flight be seasonal or would the the Q300 operate something like PPQ-AK
37 CHCalfonzo : I believe NZ have some slack in the ATR schedule. I can see more CHC-HLZ/PMR/IVC services going back to ATRs and the free Q300s being deployed to PPQ
38 Mr AirNZ : There is significant slack currently across the entire Link network. Various changes and or extra flights could easily be achieved with the current a
39 Post contains links macilree : The news that Cargolux (CV) is suspending its services to New Zealand at the end of the month means that we will have no European airlines operating s
40 kiwiandrew : From the end of next year we should have a North American carrier back in the form of CO ( UA ) if the announced IAH-AKL service goes ahead . Probabl
41 TravellerPlus : Australia leaps to mind. For example, I am sure that the visitor numbers from HKG alone could not support CX flights to 7 gateways. I think SQ could
42 kiwiandrew : If it goes ahead ( and I think getting approval will be an uphill battle- it would be a hugely dominant grouping and it would need approval from a la
43 PA515 : Any news on the ATR interior upgrade announced in October 2008? PA515
44 aerorobnz : With the proposed LA/JJ Merger one would think it will only be a matter of time before JJ arrives here as well....
45 Mr AirNZ : At least one ATR is trialing new seats fitted in rows 16-17 with opinions being sort from frequent flyers but other than that, I know nothing more ab
46 koruman : There is a certain contributor to this thread whose vision of the future for New Zealand and indeed Australian and Pacific aviation is of LCC dominanc
47 koruman : Incidentally, the news of the LAN/TAM merger really might make my old idea of a PPT micro-hub feasible for Brazilians needing to do business in Japan
48 ZK-NBT : 4% is for the overall network not AKL, good to see the 744s returning again even with the second flight less than daily! Seems CX107/108 does better
49 ZK-NBT : Just seen the thread on it. For us spotters ZK-NBT B744 appears to have operated its first LHR service in about a year leaving AKL as NZ2 on the 10th
50 NZ107 : IMO always has, always will. CX117 leaves HKG too early - people could get nearly an entire day of work in before heading the airport and flying sout
51 777ER : With 11 Q300s doing the work of 7, is NZ planning any expansion other then PPQ services to AKL and maybe also PPQ-CHC and extra TRG?
52 Mr AirNZ : All I have been told is schedule changes for later in the year will see the ATR utilisation increase to a figure more around what it used to be and t
53 Post contains links mariner : I very much hope that it isn't the case. If Air NZ was/is planning Chile I don't see this changes anything and if it was/is planning Argentina, I don
54 Post contains links NZ107 : Funny that nobody has mentioned Ed Sims' resignation. Sims leaving Air NZ It says that he'll leave at either the end of the year or early next year. I
55 kiwiandrew : On the other hand it could just be that after 10 years with the airline he is ready to move on and do something else - he was appointed to his curren
56 Haggis73 : I believe Atlas Air will start services to LAX from AKL using there GT designator.
57 NZ107 : Maybe because nobody else (ie media) knows if there's anything behind it yet, and that the reasons could be masked in a way to not fully disclose wha
58 koruman : I would postulate two reasons for this. Firstly, it is bad management to offer so many variations of the same product (seat only, seat + bag, worksbu
59 sunrisevalley : I agree. 7 years is a long time and doesn't enhance his CV. He has probably decided that Fyfe and Thompson will be around for the forseeable future a
60 sunrisevalley : Is it reasonable to assume that it is the yields from QF domestic that have been severely hit?
61 Post contains links and images CHCalfonzo : VP-BJJ was parked outside ANZES #1 hangar here in CHC today. Does anyone know if this aircraft just having a maintenance check or is Altitude refittin
62 koruman : Yes, but yields on all routes which have been passed from QF to JQ have plummetted. I really can't overstate this: Thursday's Qantas results heralded
63 PA515 : IF Air NZ had a nonstop flight to Brasil, then JJ may still want to codeshare even though it would take pax from the LA flights. The longer journey v
64 sunrisevalley : I agree based on interpolating the present 13hr 20min EZE-AKL. I calculate the GRU-AKL ESAD as ~ 7100nm and if NZ's 744's are about the typical DOW o
65 mariner : I seldom try to work out the business case for a route. The airline has access to information that I simply cannot have, and even if I could I wouldn
66 Post contains links NZ107 : I never thought a PM would announce a route.. Air NZ flights to Mumbai NZ will fly AKL-BOM when the 787s come apparently.
67 alangirvan : AKL-BOM was one of the routes suggested when AirNZ first ordered teh 7E7, and we have not really read anything more about it until now. So, will a ser
68 thefuture : ha, ha, ha - wishful thinking, but JQ wil last, QF will keep shrinking & OOL will never be able to support business traffic. No money on Gold Coa
69 motorhussy : Pacific Blue's pulling out of domestic routes! Signs of an NZ/DJ co-operation or of a very tough market?!
70 motorhussy : Pretty sure this would have been done in his capacity as Tourism Minister.
71 zkpilot : 1st thought: Those poor crew... that will be an absolute s**t of a flight! It would be 12hours of non-stop service madness. 2nd thought: Weird for th
72 Post contains links mariner : I think that is remarkable news, and very welcome for Air NZ: http://www.smh.com.au/business/virgi...osing-millions-20100816-125uv.html "Mr Borghetti
73 aerokiwi : I don't think there is a Ministry of Tourism to be Minister of anymore. A shame and I certainly hope it's not a preemptive move to allay fears the pr
74 koruman : India makes much more sense for inbound tourism than China simply because of the common language and high recognition in India of New Zealand, thanks
75 Post contains links motorhussy : John Key would be surprised to hear that as he's the Minister of Tourism and any ministerial devolution would have to be approved by the Prime Minist
76 koruman : Pacific Blue's withdrawal from domestic NZ routes would appear to suggest that the DJ/NZ tie-up is going forward at great pace, and that most of what
77 Post contains links TravellerPlus : You are correct. As of today there is no Ministry of Tourism. It has been merged into the Ministry of Economic Development as the Tourism Strategy Gr
78 Post contains links CHCalfonzo : Jetstar to fill Pacific Blue gap in NZ Hot on the heels of DJ's announcement. JQ will add an 8th aircraft to NZ late 2010 or early 2011 to increase do
79 RichardJF : The Pacific Blue domestic pullout is a real unknown for NZ imo. It will likely force a strategic rethink by QF. Previously they were putting pressure
80 RichardJF : NZ's domestic A320 decision was certainly well timed and may have headed off this scenario. Time will tell.
81 zkpilot : Don't worry, all the locals call it Bombay too! Just the Indian government that calls it Mumbai.
82 RichardJF : The problem as I see it is that QF management probably knows that if they wanted to get up to 10-12 AKL-WLG, AKL-CHC frequencies that NZ would probabl
83 airbusa322 : Believe it when I see it. JQ say this alot in Australia and dont deliver, especially with big proposed capacity boosts to OOL/LST/HBA which never eve
84 777ER : It will be sad to loose PacBlue and the Boeings. Guess the Kiwi domestic skies are going Airbus. With PacBlues severe lack of expansion since starting
85 Post contains links macilree : The New Zealand-India air services arrangements are one of those rare cases where the full text is available on the web, not just the treaty. See her
86 koruman : Qantas are rueing the fact that they listened to people who share your opinions. Just read Qantas' latest financial reports from last Thursday - Jets
87 koruman : What an extraordinary document. I am staggered. Did the Air New Zealand "experts" and NZ ministry staff know anything about India's 21st century econ
88 thefuture : maybe because so many Kiwis live on Gold Coast !!! Does it have 2nd highest Kiwi population in OZ after Bondi ?
89 koruman : Actually, more to the point, the majority of Air New Zealand and Pacific Blue passengers flying across the Tasman into BNE are actually headed for th
90 NZ6 : I had never thought of that. Rather sad really. Maybe for the 15% who came here to Holiday, my guess is any Indian route will be for those visiting f
91 thefuture : From memory Freedom did quite a few scheduled charters into MCY but can't remember where from in NZL. Some issue at MCY with fire fighting services (
92 777ER : When will AI join?
93 PA515 : When will that be announced? PA515
94 macilree : Or maybe they sought access to Bangalore but could not get agreement from the Indian side who saw its future value as a source point worth protecting
95 koruman : I found that incredibly offputting when I lived in Auckland: the cost and inconvenience of getting from Brisbane added around $150 per person to our
96 Post contains links macilree : It is worth having a look at the Statistics NZ Infoshare data source when investigating such issues. Go to the subject Tourism, then open up Internat
97 alangirvan : In Dunedin, many Indian residents are something to do with the University. Quite a lot of Academic staff in all fields. They have strong liinks with I
98 NZ6 : Students = Cheap fares = Not a reason to operatge a route. They fly SQ due to lack of choice.
99 thefuture : MCY is still a fair drive from Noosa. BNE/Noosa is about 90 minutes (not via MCY) MCY/Noosa is about 45 minutes, as much slower road along coast.
100 koruman : 30,000 Indian trips per year really is not many, especially when you consider that even after Air NZ starts AKL-BOM the residents of each other Indian
101 aerokiwi : Perhaps it hasn't been updated yet? Or he's a Minister without a Ministry - it can happen, I believe. The powers-that-be finally realised the duplica
102 NZ1 : It's here for a Maintenance Visit. That's all I will say sorry. There's quite a push to keep the details of BBJ visits under wraps due to their owner
103 v2fix : Just a point on Bangalore: The Indian Governement is still quite protective of where non-national carriers can fly to. We shoudl remember there are di
104 mariner : I think Mumbai is great for Air NZ. I might have preferred Chennai with its mixed economy, or New Delhi, but they're pretty much the same belong diff
105 Post contains links tayser : DJ/Pacific Blue are going daily on MEL-CHC at the end of October. Still waiting for the competition on MEL-WLG! http://www.melbourneairport.com.au/N..
106 NZ107 : I still haven't heard the uproar from the Hamilton City Council about them losing their SYD link soon..
107 ZKSUJ : I'm wondering what other Long Haul destinations they could add. Obvious ones are FRA and JFK and as some say South America (I would think) but after t
108 Post contains links ZKSUJ : I see NZ450 had a reported birdstrike today in WLG. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4036...ency-landing-at-Wellington-Airport
109 koruman : Ok, let's take a couple of steps backwards, shall we? Which Indian cities can fill the pointy end of the plane due to their wealth and due to their s
110 Post contains images NZ6 : New route does not mean new destination! Remember back when that was said, CHC-LAX was tested, WLGNAN, CHCNAN came about, ROT-SYD has been started. W
111 767er : Any news on how the weekly SYD RAR flights are doing?
112 DavidByrne : . . . and so your solution is . . . ? Not open the Indian market at all? Wait until the bilateral can be renegotiated (by which time AI or others may
113 mariner : I can only shrug. I have no way of proving what will and won't work, but the issue seems to me to be moot. They have rights to Mumbai - they don't ha
114 thefuture : Aust Labor party just announced an increase to Aust Departure tax (now called passenger movement fee) if they are re-elected this weekend. All the mor
115 NZ1 : NGD was the bird in question. Likely engine change tonight. NZ1
116 Post contains links kiwiandrew : Good question ! A while back AI imposed a new deadline on themselves of "Not later than 31 March 2011" ... but today I saw this story about ( yet ) a
117 777ER : WLG-NAN (not sure about CHC-NAN) is currently operating seasonal winter services Highly doubt JAL will launch NZL services while they are downgrading
118 Post contains links 777ER : NZ announced yesterday extra afternoon and evening AKL-NPL and AKL-PMR services using Q300s http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/press...increases-palmersto
119 Post contains links macilree : Re EVA, an interesting development was the decision by the New Zealand Government to grant visa free entry as reported here on 18 November 2010. Of l
120 koruman : I may have argued my point badly. I don't think cricket can be hosted 52 weeks per year!! But I do think that for the Indian market, cricket is the b
121 kiwiandrew : I don't think the Aussie competition authorities would permit that , didn't they already veto an AC/NZ codeshare deal ex Australia ?
122 HLZCPH : I guess that engine has to come up from Christchurch, on a truck? Wouldn't be able to achieve that overnight .... or can they?
123 Post contains links macilree : For many years, given the range of the aircraft available, I don't think Canadian airlines had much choice. Although the Canada-USA "open skies" agre
124 Post contains images kiwiandrew : That sounds like a very interesting story ! Do you have any idea where I could find out more information about this ? It is absolutely amazing some o
125 macilree : A good place to start is the book "Airline" written by Ian Driscoll and published in 1979. The airline that the title refers to is TEAL.
126 NZ1 : Birdstrike was at 1:20pm, boroscope done around 2pm. Not sure of the details, but that's plenty of time to truck an engine from AKL or CHC to WLG, an
127 Post contains images kiwiandrew : My memory must be slipping , I remember reading both "Airline" and "Flightpath : South Pacific" many years ago - excellent books with many interestin
128 NZCH : I will be up on Wellington LIne this weekend, and i will be working with the guys who are working tonight, so they will be dealing with this aircarft
129 NZ1 : Yes, any engine change would likely involve CHC staff being flown up. Or they may get a 1 flight dispensation to ferry the aircraft to CHC. Are you a
130 v2fix : So - we could extrapolate from that we might see a new route to a current Long Haul destination. Now as Aus is not classified as Long Haul then we ar
131 thefuture : AC did MEL/HNL 5 or so years ago over a Dec-Jan period. From memory SYD/HNL & MEL/HNL arrived around the same time & then HNL/YVR & HNL/Y
132 Post contains links v2fix : I was reading the Open Skies agreement between NZ and the UK. (here : http://www.fco.gov.uk/resources/en/p...06546/3892733/4190568/4356125/Av8) Intere
133 PA515 : From Australia to somewhere other than NZ would still be Long Haul. If HKG-LHR ceased the slots could be used/traded for another flight. PA515
134 koruman : That dawned upon me just before you wrote it! Maybe we are looking at the end of the HKG-LHR sector, to be replaced by SFO-LHR.
135 PA515 : I remembered what you said about the LHR based crew. The HKG-LHR, LHR-HKG slots are an under-utilised asset. PA515
136 koruman : Well, let's consider the situation. Air NZ has seven weekly slot pairs at Heathrow for HKG-LHR, but has had to downguage the aircraft and doesn't use
137 NZ107 : In which case - do you see them pursuing some other European route from HKG or even thinking about something like SFO/YVR-MAN? Staying on the HKG-LHR
138 koruman : I haave argued all along that Manchester's links to China are almost entirely to Hong Kong, and that AKL-HKG-MAN could be feasible, although yields w
139 zkpilot : I still think if NZ wants to continue its AKL-HKG-LHR service then it needs another flight to feed the HKG-LHR sector... so something like CHC-BNE-HK
140 PA515 : And one less aircraft would be required. Three are used for AKL-HKG-LHR / LHR-HKG-AKL and two for AKL-SFO / SFO-AKL. Three required for AKL-SFO-LHR /
141 koruman : I agree, and I think that the success of the flight would be assured, as CHC residents are used to 2-stop services to Europe and BNE-residents curren
142 darenw : Perhaps they may keep AKL-HKG-LHR 5 times a week and do AKL-HKG-MAN twice a week
143 DavidByrne : This would also get my vote, not least because it would establish NZ as a proper player on the Australia-Europe route. NZ has unlimited Australian on
144 thefuture : What about NZL/DPS via OZ ? Only options seem to be DJ, unless flying different carriers. Most OZ/DPS flights with DJ must be weight restricted due to
145 sunrisevalley : I would argue as I have done before, that NZ has 40+ years in The Californian market and that has to be worth an awful lot. So to make the best use of
146 aerorobnz : Quite right. especially with only two 744s...:-P
147 NZ107 : With the departure of DJ from the NZ domestic market, how long will it take for JQ to fill a void in the DUD market? I know DJ only had one flight her
148 thefuture : Yes that's worthwhile from an airline point of view. Offer cheap fares to students when they have holidays. Great business plan. Can see JQ rushing i
149 DavidByrne : I don't know why everyone is so set on discussing the possible arrival of TT in the New Zealand market. As a Singaporean company, they aren't eligibl
150 IndianicWorld : Excellent reality check there. It is definately true that TT is not in a postion, nor has any plans, to change its ownership structure to allow this
151 NZ107 : It's still a possibility. Albeit a slim one. You can't just let competitors slip out of the frame just because they aren't allowed to do some things
152 NZCH : Has there been any updates on what has happened to the aircraft in question? I am aiming to be a Tech Ops Trainee next year, currently doing the pre
153 thefuture : Tiger group only have to open a new division, (whether it be a part of TR or TT who knows or cares), with 51% Australian or New Zealand ownership. Ho
154 koruman : This perpetuates the current problem: the airline paid millions of dollars for a second daily London slot pair, yet two days per week it lies unused
155 IndianicWorld : Its not a simple task. Do not look at it happening anytime soon, especially with Tigers new priorities in Thailand.
156 thefuture : I think it will happen sooner rather than later. If TT became 51% Australian or NZL owned it could start trans-Tasman ops very quickly. Not saying NZ
157 LAXintl : Depressed LHR slot market? Hardly. THY just two weeks ago took part in bidding for ex CSA slots, and lost out with its final £8mil offer for a pair.
158 koruman : That's interesting, and I stand corrected. Having said that, that is all the more reason to hold onto the two slot pairs they have, rather than give
159 macilree : Your source for this is? Buying slots on the grey market is not the only way to gain airport slots.
160 IndianicWorld : I think you are overestimating the NZ market potential. DJ are leaving due to sustained losses, which resulted from too much capacity and the inabili
161 MillwallSean : The EU is doing its best to sign these so called horizontal agreements with all nations. Simplified it means that nationality clauses in bi-laterals
162 koruman : My understanding was that BMI sold Air NZ the second slot pair, and that the transaction was included in their end-of-year financials. That is second
163 ZK-NBT : Cheeky, hehe, go on give us a hint. I'm currently struggling to think where NZ needs 744s that a 772 couldn't fly to current destinations. SYD-LAX an
164 timb777 : 4xWeekly HKG-LHR & 3xWeekly SFO-LHR? Would this work?
165 Post contains images NZ107 : Any long haul 3x weekly destinations spring to mind? Surely you'd use something else for TPE.. A second daily AKL-HKG doesn't seem to make any sense,
166 v2fix : Incorrect. Air New Zealand did not pay anything for the additonal LHR slot - much to the huge annoyance of a certain other local airline with a Big R
167 777ER : What about a new carrier like Jumpjet with B73Gs? Maybe another reason why PacBlue is leaving NZ domestic is because NZ is planning on being DJs spon
168 777ER : NZ is shortly introducing a new safety video and has as anyone seen NZs 1900D special livery 'Make a Wish' plane yet?
169 zkojh : Operations at LHR are fine at the moment, both LAX are HKG are working fine. besides they have just taken on another 16 cabin crew cos so many have le
170 Post contains links HLZCPH : I see there is some Japan charter work coming up. Could keep a couple of 744's busy for a while? http://nz.biz.yahoo.com/100818/3/l03y.html
171 Post contains links NZdsgnr : yes and it is looking pretty damn good if you ask me!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f1awn9vBZE
172 767er : I agree 100% - really enjoyed. Very innovative. I have flwon with one of rhe male FAs before. The new uniform looks very fetching indeed.
173 aerorobnz : Yep lots of japan charters this year, but no the 744 won't be operating them...
174 777ER : The new video certainly provided some good laughs!
175 Zkpilot : A NZL CAA license can be converted to an aussie CASA one for about A$100 IIRC in terms of getting a NZL one in the first place... well that costs qui
176 xiaotung : The Star annual meeting in Queenstown would be a very good chance woudn't it? I am wonderng if John Borghetti will be invited.
177 NZ107 : Whoops, sorry, I meant an operating licence for an airline.. But very interesting nonetheless! I wish I had that kind of money..
178 thefuture : Don't seriously think Tiger group would be looking at NZL domestic (on any large scale), but if they were doing trans-tasman they could then easily d
179 777ER : When the meeting again?
180 xiaotung : December 2010.
181 NZ6 : Good point and I'm surprised this was not raised earlier. A lot more happening up in Japan these days and this charter work flies to many cities. Sor
182 ZK-NBT : The Japan charters are weekly for 14 weeks with 763s. How are the scheduled Japan flights doing lately to NRT and KIX? Kind of surprised they still do
183 NZ1 : Tease NZ6. It will come out in the not too distant future. Sorry, but cannot say any more at present. In regards to NGD, the #2 engine had a full fan
184 HLZCPH : So I guess the whole fan hub can be swapped out in one unit, rather than the individual fan blades? Our LM6000 (GE CF6) at work doesn't have a front
185 Post contains images kiwiandrew : Now , as well as speculating about what the two 744s will be doing , we can also start to speculate about what "in the not too distant future" means
186 Post contains images ZKEOJ : the two have different tasks, you realise that? Tourism NZ is an arm of the Ministry though. or reviving an old link - LAX-FRA anybody? Thanks for th
187 NZ1 : No all the blades were changed. Fan hub could be removed, but the blades have to come out to do that anyway. Removing the fan hub is a mammoth job to
188 NZCH : Sounds like a good ending then. not to much of a hassle to repair, compared to a engine swap. yea, it wouldn't be the prettiest sight to see, my fath
189 DavidByrne : Earlier in the thread (or the last) this was discussed and it's clear they'll be pretty busy just undertaking the present WB schedules given the dema
190 v2fix : Hey Guys - do you always have to change all blades in a fan ? And if so - why ? Are they all balanced in some way ?
191 777ER : NZs new all blacks safety video will also be played on A320 flights as well as B733s from Monday
192 motorhussy : Will there be no place we're safe from AB media exposure?!
193 anstar : No need fof a 744 - the 773er can do the route just fine. Well there are changes afoot. The new 777-300 goes online to LHR from APR next year. This w
194 macilree : Actually TT could, subject to obtaining separate New Zealand safety certification, operate purely domestically within New Zealand. Since the days of
195 NZ6 : NO because Sky Couch is being sold in the routes the aircraft was brought for. There are no spares. IF that was the route it would have to be the 744
196 aerorobnz : without wanting to repeat previous posts (but I can't be bothered screening all posts.) SUI has left AKL with it's last commercial flight to NRT. It h
197 kiwiandrew : Nice to see that she still has some life ahead of her . Interesting that it is worth investing in the conversion for an aircraft which is already 17
198 thefuture : Wow didn't realise that !!! So they could put an aircraft or 3 on AKL/WLG/CHC initially at low frequency now DJ pulling out & take some market of
199 NZ107 : And there you go. Thanks for the very useful piece of information. There must be some incentive for JQ to expand into the space left by DJ, especiall
200 thefuture : Yes Junkstar has a VERY bad name !!! But seriously, incidents on TT are few & far between. The TV programme only attracts more people to TT (no s
201 ZK-NBT : I'm aware of that, just speculating what 2 744s could be kept for more than anything. SYD-LAX daily requires 2 aircraft. Interesting,competing with L
202 Post contains links macilree : I don't know the full details of the Australia-Singapore air services arrangements so can't give a definite answer to that. The information available
203 thefuture : The plot thickeens. Guess a lot is riding on todays Aust election. If Labor scrapes back in, TT will boom & QF will suffers. If Libs win, then al
204 RichardJF : 4 HGK-LHR and 3 SFO-LHR is a good idea.
205 NZ1 : No we don't. Sometimes, not that it is often, you can get away with changing just 1 or 2. The snag is that the replacement blades have to be weighed,
206 Post contains links Mr AirNZ : Yeah because things are really going well for a company when the head of the company is unloading a large portion of his shares. http://www.smh.com.a
207 IndianicWorld : Its not a good look, but it may also be strategic. All owners try and recoup investment at some point, and there many be others in the wings that are
208 Post contains links 777ER : New Zealand Aviation Thread #82 (by 777ER Aug 21 2010 in Civil Aviation)
209 eta unknown : NZ 744x2 guesses... purely random thoughts: OK I'll have a shot... MEL-LAX, a second daily LAX-LHR, AKL-GRU
210 thefuture : Ah maybe he likes getting paid for his efforts !!!
211 Zkpilot : There are still 742/743s flying around as freighters... 17 years is not that old for an aircraft... sure a D check costs a lot but after that you the
212 Post contains links srbmod : Please continue the discussion here: New Zealand Aviation Thread #82 (by 777ER Aug 21 2010 in Civil Aviation) In the future, please inform the Moderat
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