Lightbug From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 73 posts, RR: 0 Posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2286 times:
Maybe this has been discussed before, so moderators, feel free to delete or refer to previous threads. I just could not find or locate anything specific enough while searching the topic.
I am just wondering if there is room for another airline alliance in the global airline market right now. All the major ones seem to belong to one today with some exceptions, but I just read about US that may (have to) leave Star Alliance. Who would they join if that happened? Is it the CO/UA merger that could potentially have triggered this? And also, are there any major airlines that would be better served by leaving their existing alliance and teaming up with others to start their own or to be independent?
Also, Africa seems to be lacking in terms of being members of global air transportation alliances. I realize that South African is a member of Star Alliance as is Egyptair. There are several capable and well run airlines on this continent, and I just wonder why alliances have been so reluctant to team up with other African players (Kenya Airways & Ethiopian...both respectacle carriers).
ahlfors From Canada, joined Oct 2000, 1318 posts, RR: 5 Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2273 times:
Kenya Airways is a member of Skyteam and Ethiopian is looking to join Star. There really aren't many big airlines left that aren't in an alliance. I mean what airline would the new alliance have in Europe?
thegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2273 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2262 times:
Emirates doesn't believe in alliances..but they could form a posse...
Lightbug From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 73 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2186 times:
Quoting ahlfors (Reply 1): Kenya Airways is a member of Skyteam and Ethiopian is looking to join Star. There really aren't many big airlines left that aren't in an alliance. I mean what airline would the new alliance have in Europe?
I thought Kenya Airways was just a "junior" member (or associate member at this time). I am also thinking of several Asian or Middle-Eastern carries not in an alliance at all. Emirates comes to mind. Would they benefit from being in an alliance today? At the rate they are growing, they may not need strategic partners except for codeshare.
I realize that European and North American carriers have domineered the founding of alliances, so maybe no new takers there. But one of my questions is how every airline benefits. With mergers both in Europe and here in the US, these marriages have mostly been within alliances. Can't be an easy task to work out due to anti-trust considerations, and it may not be the best fit in the end either. I guess joining an alliance would fall outside of anti-trust legislation as opposed to mergers, so maybe there is no issue related to this at all.
Byrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2140 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1918 times:
Their used to be talk on this board of an alliance of LCC's. I guess the lack of intercontinental LCC's makes any kind of alliance impossible.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
goldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1672 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1700 times:
Quoting Lightbug (Reply 3): I thought Kenya Airways was just a "junior" member (or associate member at this time).
KQ joined Skyteam as an associate member but this status doesn't exist anymore and they are a full member now. But in any case, KQ belongs to AF-KL so you'll never see KQ in Star or oneworld.
rampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2851 posts, RR: 7 Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1658 times:
I think it's conceivable that an airline could defect out of an existing alliance if a better opportunity arose. CO did. US probably should. And if major, they could form the core of a new alliance. Who says we have to limit to 3 alliances? The ones we have seem to have trememdous overlap: do I need 13 airlines in Europe, when a few well-placed ones will do? Does Star really need 3 large network airlines in the US?? That leaves some leftovers if the overlap is trimmed, and room for another alliance.
I could also see niche alliances. Virign and like airlines together. Leisure oriented airlines. Small independent regional airlines.
edichc From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1638 times:
Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4): Their used to be talk on this board of an alliance of LCC's. I guess the lack of intercontinental LCC's makes any kind of alliance impossible.
Difficult but not impossible, there are the likes of EI and Air Asia X that could offer such an element to a LCC alliance.Didn't EI consider some of partnership with JetBlue at some point?
VC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2416 posts, RR: 9 Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1597 times:
Perhaps some uber elegant, 6 star service network that just plane snobbery! It would/should cost more (like the 4 seasons)
Singapore, Emerates, Qatar, etc. Recently I checked first class on SQ to the USA then had to go to Richmond as a connection in the US. It was like checking into a 4 Season's but spending the last night at Marriott Courtyrard. Singapore doesn't fly to RIC.
The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
Byrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2140 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1596 times:
Quoting edichc (Reply 7): Difficult but not impossible, there are the likes of EI and Air Asia X that could offer such an element to a LCC alliance.Didn't EI consider some of partnership with JetBlue at some point?
Well, that's if you consider EI to be a LCC. I consider them more of a hybrid along the lines of US.
The problem with the LCC concept is that its hard to apply to long haul international travel. Stage length, increased catering, and fuel bring the costs of flying up to legacy levels when intercontinental flying is involved. At that point, why pay similiar prices and fly a no-frills airline?
Another issue is how do you mesh the WN model with a foreign carrier? Can WN provide a decent amount of feed to D7?
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
A380US From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2358 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1496 times:
Quoting ahlfors (Reply 1): I mean what airline would the new alliance have in Europe
extspotter From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1424 times:
Maybe when SQ sells its stake, but at the moment it is still very star-y, and as what was saide previously once an airline is alligned with a specific alliance, even if not a member it is rare for them to change sides again.
AF BE BY FR MV PD SZ U2 VZ DHC6, 8-3/4Q, 732/8, 763ER, A319, A380
Burkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4248 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1267 times:
I see the time coming nearer in which the number of alliances will go down to two by a merger of OW and Skyteam, there is no space foir a forth alliance.
SR4ever From Luxembourg, joined Mar 2010, 765 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1192 times:
Quoting ahlfors (Reply 1): I mean what airline would the new alliance have in Europe?
Good question...
Not too many european legacy airlines are left out of an alliance these says. FI, CY, some post-yugoslavian carrier, BG, Baltic carriers (as SK is pulling our of them).
Quoting rampart (Reply 6): I think it's conceivable that an airline could defect out of an existing alliance if a better opportunity arose. CO did. US probably should.
Or CP, when absorbed by CA 10 yrs ago.
Leaving alliances does not go without conditions, though, and some can be rather onerous.
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 10): MH is not in an alliance so I guess any new one could get an all important SE Asian member
OA is to join Star Alliance, post-merger with Aegean.
Quoting Burkhard (Reply 13): I see the time coming nearer in which the number of alliances will go down to two by a merger of OW and Skyteam, there is no space foir a forth alliance.
I don't think US Antitrust and EU Competition autorities would clear that, unless OW-Skyteam "expells" some of its overlapping members...
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