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LAX Approves Alaska Air Terminal Move  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24320 posts, RR: 47
Posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8600 times:

In discussions that have been ongoing for a year, Alaska Airlines and LAWA have reached agreement for the carrier to move its operations from T-3 to T-6.

The approved plans call for approximately $200mil in improvements jointly funded by Alaska, LAWA and TSA.
The renovation include a new ticket lobby area per Alaska’s “airport of the future concept”, modified gate configuration (primarily a narrow body terminal), renovated gate areas, Board Room lounge, new inline baggage systems and revised security checkpoint.

The project completion estimate is early 2012.


More details available at:
http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_15724574


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5225 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8561 times:

Good deal! Nice to see AS moving to a new home closer to DL. So what does this mean for the other airlines currently using T6? Move to T3? The article doesn't really seem to say.


Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineplatinumfoota From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 554 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8559 times:
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So who's moving out of T-6, if any?


Never forget United 93
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24320 posts, RR: 47
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8507 times:

JetBlue has proposed to relocate to Terminal 3 to gain additional gates, but no firm date at this time.
Others like F9, Spirit, Airtran, Allegiant are TBA but could head to either T-2 or T-3.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2797 posts, RR: 30
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8471 times:

This is great news! T6 really needs a makeover, and AS really needs a terminal with FIS so that they don't have to tow planes over from TBIT (or another int'l equipped terminal) anymore. Sounds like T6 will be much brighter and more functional than today. Also, this seems to reaffirm AS/QX's commitment to LAX - with all the recent Mexico reductions and upcoming QX cuts, some had their doubts that AS wanted to maintain its major focus city/int'l gateway. Obviously AS is not about to abandon its extensive LAX-Mexico network, etc.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 1):
So what does this mean for the other airlines currently using T6? Move to T3? The article doesn't really seem to say.

UA/CO and DL probably aren't going anywhere, but all of the small domestic tenants (G4, B6, FL, F9, NK) in the rotunda almost certainly will get the boot. They probably have a choice between AS's current gates in the north half of T3 (VX may be interested in a few of those, however) or T2, which still wants to fill the void left behind by NW's departure. B6 has occasionally mentioned int'l flying out of LAX, and if they are serious about it they could go into T2 while the others go to T3.



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9081 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8460 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 4):

Also IIRC the plan is for 68B to stay a WB gate while the rest get shifted. DL will use this gate for flights to NRT and likely HND.



yep.
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13255 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8340 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

About time! Our facilities and IT people have been waiting on LAWA for quite awhile now.


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24320 posts, RR: 47
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8311 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 4):
and AS really needs a terminal with FIS so that they don't have to tow planes over from TBIT (or another int'l equipped terminal) anymore

True, but the fly in the ointment is still the big unknown of what staffing CBP can provide for T-6.
With a constant staffing shortfall in the Los Angeles Port District, inorder to operate TBIT and expand the T-2 core hours last year, other terminals including T-6 have seen continued reduced hours of operations. T-6 FIS today functions only till 3pm in summer, 1pm in winter, not something that will work as most of Alaska's Mexico arrivals are in the evening.

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 5):
Also IIRC the plan is for 68B to stay a WB gate while the rest get shifted. DL will use this gate for flights to NRT and likely HND.

Last design proposal I saw a few months back called for the entire satellite rotunda to be redesigned into a slew of narrow body gates including a RJ/prop area for QX.

Anyhow, loss of the 747 gate could be fortuitous and provide a good cover reason for Delta to downgauge those flights to A330s by then.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6402 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8291 times:

I guess AS must have gotten some guarantees from CBP to keep the FIS open longer. Nice to see that T6 will get a much needed face lift.

There's some unused areas between 66 and 64 upstairs what would make for a great Boardroom.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
modified gate configuration (primarily a narrow body terminal),

It would be a shame to get rid of 69A as a widebody gate as well; it works very well for that. It's great to offload passengers from a 777 there, not so sure about boarding a widebody there though.....

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly...T5, CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2001 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8286 times:

Thank god. Get them out of T3rdworld. I'll kind of miss the old TWA lounge/AS Board Room upstairs. It's got a fantastic view up there.

Too bad it's still LAX. Is anyone else scared that the TSA is going to help design something?


User currently offlinenutsaboutplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 486 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8256 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
The project completion estimate is early 2012.

This is a bit ambitious in my opinion but we will see. The airport of the future and in-line baggage system at SEA was way behind schedule.....if that baggage system isn't already halfway built, I don't see 2012 by any stretch of the imagination. Our testing and ops trials took 6 months alone although there was an "unscheduled contractor change " and Vanderlandee took over half way through....I think the original contractor was G and T and they jacked it all up!

I am glad that the plans have at least been finalized, AS has been talking about this for at least two years. It was interesting watching the plans change and morph over time, there were many different concepts and it will be interesting to see what AS decides to do. I know that a big question was how they were going to incorporate the LCD screen concept (stby lists, advertising and flight information) in a common use environment.



American Airlines, US Airways, Alaska Airlines, Northwest Airlines, America West Airlines, USAFR
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9081 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8176 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):

Anyhow, loss of the 747 gate could be fortuitous and provide a good cover reason for Delta to downgauge those flights to A330s by then.

No it isn't
1) DL is locked into a 744 on HND AFAIK.
2) T5 has a 744 gate, they just don't use it because it closes.......crap i can't remember which gate..........I believe its 56.
3) the 744 gate is also the only LR gate, which could be a bit of a problem but for now it looks like it will be ok, but from what i was told 68B will still be a 744 gate and while DL is using it AS can use 65 if needed.
I have a picture of what T6 *should* look like and it shows a DL 747 in 68B and a AS 738 at 65, but these plans could have changed.



yep.
User currently offlinen901wa From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 428 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 8086 times:

Howzit deltal1011man   The T5 gate that uses the 777LR and if a 744 goes there is 58, and takes up 56 and part of 59. In fact we cant put a winglet 757 at 59 overnight because the SYD comes in and won't fit at 58. In fact we had a A ck on a 6800 last week that came in at 0130 and I was told they had to move it to the remote pad ( where we can't do mtc) with a CAR A ck. So we had to swap the dep time to the early JFK so we could do it at the gate and had to have it done by 0640 for the JFK outbd. It was rough with no more hanger spots and sending acft to the remote, and HAL A330 going to the B-1B spots down by airfreight makes things hard.
I hope with AS moving over to T6 helps the Pax connect better   If you got a family and kids, the walk can be a task. It will be nice to have T6 remodeled, It's showing its age. I wonder when CO and UA merge, if they will consolidate CO flights into T7 and T8 and if they are going to move UA mtc down to the beach to CO hanger.


User currently offlineSlcDeltaRUmd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3096 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8037 times:

I think in general the move is best because now AS passengers have easy walkable access between T6 and T4. This puts AAs large LAX operation easier access to AS passengers and makes the unique AS/Horizon LAX destinations easier connections for AA passengers.

Also with Delta in T6 its a win-win but I think the move is much much more AA based. Dosn't the AA/AA eagle LAX shuttle bus stop at T3 for Alaska/Horizon Passengers? After AS moves is there any reason for that bus to keep running to T3? IIRC it operates to T3 basically to connect AA customers with AS for connections


User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9081 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7902 times:

Quoting n901wa (Reply 12):
Howzit deltal1011man

Yoooo man hows everything out in socal?

Quoting n901wa (Reply 12):
The T5 gate that uses the 777LR and if a 744 goes there is 58, and takes up 56 and part of 59

Right ok thats what i thought. the 56 jetways because a 2nd jetway for 58 with a 74 there right?
and does it close off 59 all the way or can DL put a 73 or 75 (wingletless) in there between the two gate?

Quoting n901wa (Reply 12):
In fact we had a A ck on a 6800 last week that came in at 0130 and I was told they had to move it to the remote pad ( where we can't do mtc) with a CAR A ck. So we had to swap the dep time to the early JFK so we could do it at the gate and had to have it done by 0640 for the JFK outbd. It was rough with no more hanger spots and sending acft to the remote, and HAL A330 going to the B-1B spots down by airfreight makes things hard.

You know.....if they would just pick up a long term lease on some hangars they could fix this problem.....come on Delta, you know you want toooooo

Quoting n901wa (Reply 12):
I wonder when CO and UA merge, if they will consolidate CO flights into T7 and T8 and if they are going to move UA mtc down to the beach to CO hanger.

I'd bet on them keeping the CO gate in 6. Does CO have 2 or 3?(thought i saw on here that 64 went to LAWA and is a CUTE gate.....though CO does use it some)

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 13):
I think in general the move is best because now AS passengers have easy walkable access between T6 and T4

Not unless LAWA/AA/DL agree to open the tunnel between 4 and 5 which is closed now.

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 13):
Dosn't the AA/AA eagle LAX shuttle bus stop at T3 for Alaska/Horizon Passengers? After AS moves is there any reason for that bus to keep running to T3? IIRC it operates to T3 basically to connect AA customers with AS for connections

AA has shuttle bus runs from the box to T3 T4 and T5 (IIRC it goes Box-T3-T4-T5-box rt)
DL/AS(via a 3rd party) has a bus between T3 and T5.

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 13):


Also with Delta in T6 its a win-win but I think the move is much much more AA based.

No, its more DL based, but i do expect AA and AS to get LAWA to open up the closed tunnel between 4 and 5.



yep.
User currently offlineicebird757 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 656 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7821 times:

Does T3 have customs?


LGB....where you can watch the grass grow because the traffic is so slow.
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9081 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7641 times:

Quoting icebird757 (Reply 15):

No
T3, T8 and T1 are the only three terminals* at LAX without FIS

*T6 doesn't have its *own* FIS per say, T7 and T6 share an FIS.

(Thanks DeltAirlnes)

[Edited 2010-08-10 07:06:08]


yep.
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8868 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7569 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 16):

T3, T8 and T1 are the only two terminals* at LAX with FIS

I think you mean T1, T3 and T8 are the only terminals without FIS access...


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24320 posts, RR: 47
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7352 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 11):
1) DL is locked into a 744 on HND AFAIK.

No nothing should be stopping them from changing equipment as airlines have done over the years. (eg UA IAD-PEK)
Maintainign specific aircraft size was not one of the listed start up condition applied by the DOT on the award.

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 11):
I have a picture of what T6 *should* look like and it shows a DL 747 in 68B and a AS 738 at 65, but these plans could have changed.

Since last winter I've seen 3 versions of designs. I'm sure more formal renderings will be forthcoming.

I dont know if its related, but it might very well be, UA which has 3 747 capable FIS gates today in T-7, is looking to make a 777 gate FIS capable also, so they might be planning on the loss of T-6 widebody capability

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 14):
I'd bet on them keeping the CO gate in 6. Does CO have 2 or 3?

Yes CO is staying unless the merged company decides otherwise. CO has 3 full time 60-62-64 and one shared gate.
Also DL will be turning over preferential parking rights on two gates to T-6 to AS.


What I wonder now, is what Alaska will do with LAX. Their operations in recent years is down (and continue to decline this fall), so this proposed future T-6 facility is quite oversized for their current needs. I suppose they could sublet the facility to the small oddball carriers if they wanted to earn some revenue on the side.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6402 posts, RR: 55
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7316 times:

Quoting n901wa (Reply 12):
wonder when CO and UA merge, if they will consolidate CO flights into T7 and T8 and if they are going to move UA mtc down to the beach to CO hanger

I would expect UA/CO to consolidate maitenence at the UA facility since it's larger and perhaps AA could move theirs to the current CO since the AA hangar will have to be torn down when they build the new concourse for TBIT.

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly...T5, CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9081 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7218 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):

Since last winter I've seen 3 versions of designs. I'm sure more formal renderings will be forthcoming.

Yea i figured they could be changing it up......doesn't matter though like i said DL has a 744 gate at T5.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):

I dont know if its related, but it might very well be, UA which has 3 747 capable FIS gates today in T-7, is looking to make a 777 gate FIS capable also, so they might be planning on the loss of T-6 widebody capability

could be, but T6 only has the one 744 gate(68B) with FIS the others are 767/757 gates. (and 69A which is a 747 gate but doesn't have an FIS link AFAIK)

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):

No nothing should be stopping them from changing equipment as airlines have done over the years. (eg UA IAD-PEK)
Maintainign specific aircraft size was not one of the listed start up condition applied by the DOT on the award.

I thought the HND carriers were locked into the aircraft size which is why most went with the smallest aircraft that could do the job.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):
Also DL will be turning over preferential parking rights on two gates to T-6 to AS.

and the plans i have only shot them doing this with 65......should matter much though because as you said......

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):

What I wonder now, is what Alaska will do with LAX. Their operations in recent years is down (and continue to decline this fall), so this proposed future T-6 facility is quite oversized for their current needs. I suppose they could sublet the facility to the small oddball carriers if they wanted to earn some revenue on the side.

agreed. I don't really see why they would need to change much with the ever declining LAX base for AS.



yep.
User currently offlinejr From United States of America, joined May 1999, 966 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7063 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):
What I wonder now, is what Alaska will do with LAX. Their operations in recent years is down (and continue to decline this fall), so this proposed future T-6 facility is quite oversized for their current needs. I suppose they could sublet the facility to the small oddball carriers if they wanted to earn some revenue on the side.

I was thinking the same thing. Do they have any plans of even minor expansion in the future? How many flights do Alaska and Horizon have at LAX each day right now?



I've flown on 9V-SPK.
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9081 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6995 times:

Quoting jr (Reply 21):
How many flights do Alaska and Horizon have at LAX each day right now?

AS
10d-SEA
4d-PDX
4d-YVR
1d-DCA
1d-GDL
3w-ZIH
1w-ZLO
1d-MEX
1d-PVR
4w-MZT
1d and 4w-SJD

Seasonal
2d ANC

QX
1d-EUR
3w-LAP
4w-LTO
1d-MHH
2d-MFR
1d-RDD
3d and 4w-RNO
4d-SJC
2d-STS
1d-SUN

So if you pick a peak day your looking at 47 flights.



yep.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24320 posts, RR: 47
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6988 times:

Mainline schedule today is for 26 departures of which 11 are for SEA, while Horizon has 14 departures.
This winter QX drops three routes (FLG, BOI, RDM) and some mainline seasonal cut, so total flights drop to low/mid 30s.
Alaska's LAX heyday was about 2006-7 when it had 50-55 departures daily.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinejr From United States of America, joined May 1999, 966 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6800 times:

Thanks deltal1011man.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 23):
Alaska's LAX heyday was about 2006-7 when it had 50-55 departures daily

Was this including Horizon or just mainline AS? What is the net reduction today from what it used to be? It certainly does not feel as busy as it used to with AS at LAX these days.



I've flown on 9V-SPK.
25 LAXintl : Here are Alaska and Horizon passenger total at LAX. AS 2002 - 2,257,647 2003 - 2,452,857 2004 - 2,790,229 2005 - 2,833,521 2006 - 2,960,642 2007 - 2,9
26 Post contains links gmcc : Renderings of the upgrades from the LAWA board meeting are available at the following link under the management reports to BOAC http://www.lawa.org/bo
27 Post contains links LAXintl : Looks like posted this morning Direct link; http://www.lawa.org/uploadedFiles/bo...rminal%206%20Upgrades%20080910.pdf
28 LDVAviation : Looks like they are redecorating the same envelope. Low ceilings in ticketing lobby remain.
29 113312 : Actually, T6 has had considerable restoration. The mosaic tiles on the interior columns have been installed and look very much like I recall from the
30 AADC10 : Actually, it is the opposite. LAWA wants to preserve competition and the airlines with a smaller presence are easier to move around. UA is underutili
31 deltal1011man : ..........right so thats why they would move to T3..... If DL/UA/CO are paying there leases (which are long-term) then why should LAWA give them the
32 Azncsa4qf744ER : Really? I though they are using it to the limit. Almost every night there's at least few planes holding for a gate, especially their UAX operations.
33 cschleic : I've never been up there. What area does it overlook?
34 kaitak744 : Looks like Alaska is eliminating staffed check-in desks and going fully automated? Is there any airline out there that has a fully automated check-in
35 LAXintl : 24 runway complex between gates 34-35.
36 nutsaboutplanes : This is probably due to a large number of RON aircraft that need to be juggled to free up gate space. A lot of airports have virtually every spot inc
37 nutsaboutplanes : It looks to me like it will be almost identical to the SEA ticketing lobby in its functionality. There is a "step 1" which is an ITM or kiosk where t
38 CALPSAFltSkeds : From LAXIntl post I count 34 daily northbound and 8 daily southbound. That means AS will have to add about 10 minutes taxi time to the northbounds (3
39 kevin752 : I did not know that there was a tunnel there. WOW I worked at LAX for years and flew out of LAX for 23 yrs that I live in CA.
40 LAXintl : Yes there is an original tunnel system dating back to 1960s that connected T-4-5-6-7 satellite rotunda's.
41 web500sjc : huh- i thought they just had you take off from the south runways for airlines on the southside of the airport, and takeoff on the north side for airl
42 Post contains links ontime : This is all quite interesting. A few random questions about the designs at http://www.lawa.org/uploadedFiles/bo...rminal%206%20Upgrades%20080910.pdf 1
43 LAXintl : Departure runway assignment is very much contingent on your departure SID routing. Aircraft on northbound departures such as Gorman, Venture and Perc
44 The777Man : Only 69A and 67B in the rotunda are not behind glass.It should be easy to put in glass for those two remaining gates. The777Man
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