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Idea For Allegiant - Acquire Saudia MD-90s?  
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6536 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3154 times:

With Delta apparently showing no interest in acquiring the Saudia MD-90s (due to the different flightdeck from the rest of their MD-90 fleet), I was wondering, would it be a good idea for Allegiant to buy the Saudia MD-90s?

After all, Allegiant is already adding a second type to the fleet (the 752), so I don't think it would be that difficult to add a third type. After all, the MD-90 is fuel-efficient and can be acquired for dirt cheap, resulting in a very low cost of ownership. The MD-90 would also allow Allegiant to operate more reliably out of hot-and-high airports.

[Edited 2010-08-11 22:02:22]


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12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15744 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3131 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
would it be a good idea for Allegiant to buy the Saudia MD-90s?

Probably not for a few reasons.

1. The same reason DL doesn't want them, reduced commonality with the MD-80 fleet. Even the MD-90s without glass cockpits would probably be too different.

2. There is still an ample supply of MD-80s in the world, available at very low prices. (~$3 million a piece) Also, there are so many of them around the world, parts and support is easy to come by.

3. Oil prices aren't that high now, so the fuel savings of the MD-90 probably wouldn't justify themselves against the lower price and commonality advantages of the MD-80, particularly given Allegiant's low utilization.



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User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3047 times:

How many of them does Saudia have or in general how many are out there with the glass cockpit? I know its a VERY VERY no chance long shot but the Md-90 could be a cheap acquire for FL. They could use the added seating capacity on some routes.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6536 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2678 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
reduced commonality with the MD-80 fleet

Actually, not all of DL's MD-88 pilots are cross-trained on the MD-90. However, all of DL's MD-90 pilots can fly the MD-88.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
2. There is still an ample supply of MD-80s in the world, available at very low prices. (~$3 million a piece) Also, there are so many of them around the world, parts and support is easy to come by.

However, Allegiant is adding the 752 to their fleet, which is in high demand in the used aircraft market, so it probably goes for a lot more than both the MD-80 and MD-90.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
lower price and commonality advantages of the MD-80

As I said, Allegiant is already adding the 752. Adding a third type shouldn't really hurt. And I don't think the MD-90 would go for much more than the MD-80, since there are very few operators. The Saudia MD-90s might go for even less than what DL is paying for the Hello and China Eastern aircraft.

Quoting Atlwest1 (Reply 2):
How many of them does Saudia have or in general how many are out there with the glass cockpit? I know its a VERY VERY no chance long shot but the Md-90 could be a cheap acquire for FL. They could use the added seating capacity on some routes.

Saudia operates 26 MD-90s, and I believe they are the only ones with the MD-11 style cockpit. As for FL acquiring them, I don't see it happening, probably due to the lack of range compared to the 737NG. FL has pretty much standarized on the 737NG, and if they need the capacity, they will probably order some 738s.



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User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15744 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2586 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 3):
However, Allegiant is adding the 752 to their fleet, which is in high demand in the used aircraft market, so it probably goes for a lot more than both the MD-80 and MD-90.

But they need the 757 so they can fly to Hawaii, and compared to other options for doing so, the 757 is cheap. I don't think that there is enough that the MD-90 can do over the MD-80 to make it worthwhile.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineeprn1n2 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2574 times:

Allegiant could have bought JAL MD-90s which would have been common with the MD-80s. Putting in a fleet type for little or no gain was the problem. Discussions are ongoing for JALs MD-90s.

User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2825 posts, RR: 45
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2534 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 3):
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
reduced commonality with the MD-80 fleet

Actually, not all of DL's MD-88 pilots are cross-trained on the MD-90. However, all of DL's MD-90 pilots can fly the MD-88.

That's Delta's historical choice, and has no bearing on the decisions of other carriers to have all of their pilots go thhrough the (very short) differences school.


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6536 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2475 times:

Quoting eprn1n2 (Reply 5):
Allegiant could have bought JAL MD-90s which would have been common with the MD-80s. Putting in a fleet type for little or no gain was the problem. Discussions are ongoing for JALs MD-90s.

I am pretty sure that DL will probably try to get them right at the moment when JAL announces their retirement. DL is trying ot get as many used MD-90s as they can, except for the Saudia and the two Chinese-built aircraft.



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User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2442 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):

But they need the 757 so they can fly to Hawaii, and compared to other options for doing so, the 757 is cheap. I don't think that there is enough that the MD-90 can do over the MD-80 to make it worthwhile.

I think this hits the nail on the head. The 757 makes sense as a new fleet type because it does something for G4 that their current fleet can't do. The MD-90 really can't do anything for G4 that the MD-80 can't in the scope of their operations. G4 doesn't really operate any long stages out of hot-and-high airports (AZA and LAS are hot, but not particularly high) where the MD-90 might have a noticeable advantage.


User currently offlinejeb94 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 602 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2262 times:

The MD90 brings about a whole new set of parts. Sure, some are interchangeable with the 80s but many, like avionics and most certainly the engines, are not. What's the current cost of a V2500 right now? Probably a lot more than a JT8D-219. The MD90 is a slightly longer airplane with higher seating capacity that would require one more cabin crew but it doesn't carry 50 more passengers than an 80 so that flight attendant costs more than the three currently carried by the 80s in G4's fleet. MD90s don't make sense right now. That's not to say that they won't make sense later but there might be better alternatives later.

User currently offlineatpcliff From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2190 times:

Hi!

I read on another thread that DAL IS trying to buy all of the Saudi MD-90s.



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User currently offlinethefuture From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2144 times:

probably all comes down to cost.

The MD-90 probably have more cycles left.

Do they have a longer range ?


User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1205 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1841 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 3):
As for FL acquiring them, I don't see it happening, probably due to the lack of range compared to the 737NG. FL has pretty much standarized on the 737NG, and if they need the capacity, they will probably order some 738s.

Yes, but they still have the 717's, which are effectively similar to Saudia's MD-90s (from a flight control perspective), although the MD90s are significantly larger. While it is certainly in the seat range of the 737-700, many of FL's routes on the east coast don't need added range, just added capacity. I agree with you that FL probably wouldn't purchase Saudia's MD90s, but I believe that if they actually did buy them, it would be a smart move for many reasons and would probably be quite successful for them.

Quoting steex (Reply 8):
The 757 makes sense as a new fleet type because it does something for G4 that their current fleet can't do. The MD-90 really can't do anything for G4 that the MD-80 can't in the scope of their operations. G4 doesn't really operate any long stages out of hot-and-high airports (AZA and LAS are hot, but not particularly high) where the MD-90 might have a noticeable advantage.

You're absolutely right. Both Allegiant and Justice (DHS) operate out of AZA using MD80s and have no problems with it being hot (which it certainly is) or high (altitude is just under 1,400ft.). LAS is very similar in terms of weather, and although it is slightly higher, the difference is inconsequential. The 757 provides an element to their operations that their current MD80 fleet is incapable of performing. It is also a very calculated risk that breaks away from the business model that has, thus far, been extremely successful -- a risk that has yet to even prove itself as being worthwhile.

Until the benefit of adding an additional fleet type is established, it would be highly doubtful they would not only add a third type, but a type with a very similar mission as their existing fleet. I can't see G4 looking for an additional fleet type (beyond the MD80 and 757) for quite some time -- until they feel the need to possess an aircraft for a purpose the existing fleet can't fulfill.


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