Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Pan Am In Melbourne?  
User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 666 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5377 times:

When did PA start services put of Melbourne? I believe it may have been with DC-7Cs out of Essendon in the early 60s?

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5342 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

PAA started scheduled services at Melbourne/Essendon during March of 1951 using Pan Am's Boeing 377 Stratocruiser.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4930 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 1):
PAA started scheduled services at Melbourne/Essendon during March of 1951 using Pan Am's Boeing 377 Stratocruiser.

They must have dropped Melbourne at some point in the 1950s as there's no service in their April 1958 or August 1963 timetables (available on Departdedflights.com).


User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6873 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4559 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 1):
PAA started scheduled services at Melbourne/Essendon during March of 1951

No Pan Am at Melbourne in the 5/51 or 10/51 OAGs. I checked a random bunch of 1950s OAGs and didn't find it until 1959 (it's not in the 2/58).


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4311 times:

The Jet age killed Melbournes chances at that time, as Essendon could not handle the 707 type planes coming into service. SYD therefore became the centre of the Australian universe.

User currently offlinepitrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3212 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4279 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 4):
The Jet age killed Melbournes chances at that time, as Essendon could not handle the 707 type planes coming into service. SYD therefore became the centre of the Australian universe.

I think geography has more to do with it; after all Tulla's been around what... 40 years now?

But MEL seems to be surging forward in pax growth over the past few years while SYD has had more moderate growth...

If AVV didn't exist and if that traffic was added to MEL's totals, MEL would be breathing down SYD's neck.



FLYi
User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 928 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4073 times:

Quoting pitrules (Reply 5):
I think geography has more to do with it; after all Tulla's been around what... 40 years now?

Tullamarine (MEL) opened Sunday Jun 20 1971. I suspect PAA started using MEL soon after with 707 and 747 ac. A 1973 photo depicting both types in MEL early days. (note: T2 (the international finger) looks much different today).

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © George Canciani

Quoting pitrules (Reply 5):
If AVV didn't exist and if that traffic was added to MEL's totals, MEL would be breathing down SYD's neck

a little off topic however AVV is not in the top 10 (according to BITRE), 10th placed is the Sunshine Coast av 34000 per month, therefore AVV traffic per month is less than that. Take into account SYD is No 1 av 2.8 mil per month, MEL 2nd av 2.2 mil per month, so even including AVV, MEL has a loooooooooooooong way to go yet.



remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offline747m8te From Australia, joined Aug 2008, 441 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3981 times:

Quoting TN486 (Reply 6):
A 1973 photo depicting both types in MEL early days.

hmmm interesting photo...note the 747 is using the aerobridge to door R1....

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 1):
PAA started scheduled services at Melbourne/Essendon during March of 1951 using Pan Am's Boeing 377 Stratocruiser.

I thought I had read that somewhere too, though must have been short lived...

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 4):
The Jet age killed Melbournes chances at that time, as Essendon could not handle the 707 type planes coming into service. SYD therefore became the centre of the Australian universe.

Hmmm so prior to Tulla...does any one know or have a list of what other international carriers were serving Essendon?



Flown on:DHC8Q200,DHC8Q400,EMB145,E170,E190,A320,A332,A333,A343,A380,MD80,B733,B734,B737,B738,B743,B744,B744ER,B762,B763
User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3903 times:

Quoting 747m8te (Reply 7):
Hmmm so prior to Tulla...does any one know or have a list of what other international carriers were serving Essendon?

Scheduled routes to Melb were pretty much just Qantas Electras plus TEAL/ANZ Electras and BOAC Comets were the only aircraft operating international services from Melbourne in the late sixties



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6873 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3717 times:

The 4/59 PA timetable shows a DC-7C leaving HNL 1900 SuTuWeFr, NAN arr 0400 lv 0500, SYD arr 1025 lv 1145, MEL arr 1345 TuThFrSu, lv MEL 1830 TuThFrSu back to SYD-NAN-HNL. The timetable seems to show each westward flight as a thru plane from the West Coast-- 2/wk from LAX, 1/wk from SFO, 1/wk from SEA-PDX-- but the SEA-PDX flight arrives HNL at 0730, so who knows. (For some reason it shows the eastward flights 1/wk to PDX-SEA and 3/wk to SFO-- no LAX.)

No MEL in the 10/59 OAG.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3624 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 4):
The Jet age killed Melbourne's chances at that time, as Essendon could not handle the 707 type planes coming into service. SYD therefore became the centre of the Australian universe.

AKL had a similar issue a few years earlier. The old AKL airport (RNZAF base Whenuapai) couldn't handle 707s and DC-8s so AKL had no jet service until 1965 when the current AKL airport was completed. For several years in the early '60s,Pan Am based a DC-7C at NAN which operated a shuttle service 2 or 3 days a week NAN-AKL-NAN and once a week NAN-PPG-NAN. Those flights connected at NAN with Pan Am 707s or DC-8s that operated SFO/LAX-HNL-NAN-SYD and vice versa. Those DC-7Cs to/from NAN were some of Pan Am's last propeller services.

Two Pan Am DC-7Cs at Auckland Whenuapai in early '60s (in background of 2nd photo):


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ray Massey
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Colin Hunter



User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3520 times:

Here's a question to get a few heads thinking:

When did Melbourne start getting the direct / non-stop routes to SIN, KUL, BKK, HKG on the various local airlines from those ports? For instance SQ used to fly SIN-SYD-MEL at some point, no? likewise TG ex BKK?


User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 928 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3439 times:

Quoting timz (Reply 9):
The 4/59 PA timetable shows a DC-7C leaving HNL 1900 SuTuWeFr, NAN arr 0400 lv 0500, SYD arr 1025 lv 1145, MEL arr 1345 TuThFrSu

TIMZ, thank you for that info, it fills a bit of a hole in my research. From what you have provided it would appear that it was quite shortlived, in any event it was just a tag from Sydney.



remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3404 times:

Quoting pitrules (Reply 5):
I think geography has more to do with it; after all Tulla's been around what... 40 years now?

But MEL seems to be surging forward in pax growth over the past few years while SYD has had more moderate growth...

If AVV didn't exist and if that traffic was added to MEL's totals, MEL would be breathing down SYD's neck.

Georgraphy was only part of it really, on a global scale, as MEL is actually closer to Europe, Africa, Stouth America and much of South East Asia.

Even adding AVV figures, MEL would still only be around the 27-28 million pax at this time.

SYD had the jump on MEL for many years, so its always harder to catch up from that point, unless we become a bigger city, and then things change again. QF also contribute to most of SYD's services, so other cities find it hard to get anything from that airline 


User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6873 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3137 times:

Quoting TN486 (Reply 6):
Tullamarine (MEL) opened Sunday Jun 20 1971.

Stroud says 1 July 1970-- which might be right, since PA's 1 July 1970 timetable shows a 707 to "Melbourne International".


User currently offlineTN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 928 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2929 times:

Quoting TN486 (Reply 6):
Tullamarine (MEL) opened Sunday Jun 20 1971
Quoting timz (Reply 14):
Stroud says 1 July 1970

Yep, so true, opened by the Prime Minister of the time (John Gorton) on 1 Jul 70 for International Ops. The date I quoted was in effect, when domestic ops commenced (and the source of that info re domestic was both AN and TN timetables of the time announcing their commencement dates).
So TIMZ, I wipe the egg from my face, and defer to your knowledge   
I was out of the country during that time (Nov 69-Nov71 Singapore), so I cant even hazard a guess as to why domestic ops took another 12 months to move (maybe their respective facilities were not ready!!).



remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 890 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2811 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
AKL had a similar issue a few years earlier. The old AKL airport (RNZAF base Whenuapai) couldn't handle 707s and DC-8s so AKL had no jet service until 1965 when the current AKL airport was completed. For several years in the early '60s,Pan Am based a DC-7C at NAN which operated a shuttle service 2 or 3 days a week NAN-AKL-NAN and once a week NAN-PPG-NAN. Those flights connected at NAN with Pan Am 707s or DC-8s that operated SFO/LAX-HNL-NAN-SYD and vice versa. Those DC-7Cs to/from NAN were some of Pan Am's last propeller services.

Thanks for posting the photos.

About 1963 I had a ride in a DC-7C from the gate in the first photo to the hard-standing in the second, a school holiday treat from Pan Am's Station Engineer.

On 27th March 1965 there were two Pan Am DC-7C's parked at the hard-standing close to where TEAL Electra ZK-TEC came to rest after a hard landing. I don't know how long the second DC-7C was based in AKL, but only one was required for the twice weekly NAN-AKL-NAN and once weekly NAN-PGG-NAN flights.

I don't think DC-8's were ever used on Pan Am's Pacific routes.

PA515

[Edited 2010-08-16 10:07:10]

User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6873 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2750 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 16):
I don't think DC-8's were ever used on Pan Am's Pacific routes.

They did appear in Hawaii; maybe never west of there.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Questions On Pan Am In The 1980s posted Wed Jan 9 2008 14:30:36 by TranStar
Eastern And Pan Am In DC posted Thu Jul 20 2006 18:54:25 by Eastern023
Pan Am In Cleveland posted Thu Mar 23 2006 11:57:51 by Jetpixx
Pan Am In Bermuda posted Sat Feb 18 2006 17:06:40 by TXKF2010
Pan Am In ZRH 1980 posted Fri Dec 16 2005 19:40:40 by FrancoBlanco
GFK Spotters, Miami Air And Pan Am In Town posted Sat Dec 6 2003 23:39:40 by Serge
OLD PAN Am In LHR posted Sun Jan 26 2003 17:56:22 by Ual777contrail
Pan Am In 1985 posted Tue Jul 31 2001 11:03:59 by Tango-Bravo
Pan Am In Puerto Rico posted Fri Jan 26 2001 17:46:31 by Boeing 707
Pan Am In Pittsburgh posted Tue Mar 21 2000 11:51:12 by Boeing 707
Pan Am In SYD, Late 60s And Early 70s posted Tue Dec 15 2009 19:52:38 by Jackbr
Questions On Pan Am In The 1980s posted Wed Jan 9 2008 14:30:36 by TranStar
Eastern And Pan Am In DC posted Thu Jul 20 2006 18:54:25 by Eastern023
Pan Am In Cleveland posted Thu Mar 23 2006 11:57:51 by Jetpixx
Pan Am In Bermuda posted Sat Feb 18 2006 17:06:40 by TXKF2010
Pan Am In ZRH 1980 posted Fri Dec 16 2005 19:40:40 by FrancoBlanco
GFK Spotters, Miami Air And Pan Am In Town posted Sat Dec 6 2003 23:39:40 by Serge
OLD PAN Am In LHR posted Sun Jan 26 2003 17:56:22 by Ual777contrail