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Have A & B Left Too Much Space At The Bottom?  
User currently offlineflipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1562 posts, RR: 1
Posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5018 times:
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Both Boeing and Airbus seem to be making generations of aircraft that are slightly bigger but with this last round a la A350 and 787. With certain aircraft nearing the end of their production times, A330 and 767, (granted they may not be ending production but investment is all but drying up) and with 757s and A300/310 not being a shock when they are retired any more does it seem like both A & B have managed to leave them selves too big of a gap below to have a single family of narrowbody aircraft? Even with a conservative estimate a family of aircraft us going to be $15b, can and how will A&B overcome this?

Sorry for being difficult to read, it's difficult to compose on the phone.

Fred

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5003 times:

Quoting flipdewaf (Thread starter):
Even with a conservative estimate a family of aircraft us going to be $15b, can and how will A&B overcome this?

I think that they will end up leaving planes under 120 seats (and possibly up to 150) to the likes of Embraer, Bombardier, and others. The fact is that Boeing and Airbus have finite resources and those resources are generally better spend making the big ticket planes rather than slugging it out with smaller planes.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineicna05e From France, joined Feb 2006, 296 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4889 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
slugging it out with smaller planes.

Which ones? Those that bring in half their revenues?


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4876 times:

Quoting icna05e (Reply 2):
Which ones? Those that bring in half their revenues?

No, the 50-110 seaters. Sure it's a big market, but there is more money to be made with the larger planes. And none of this precludes Airbus or Boeing from being a partner on some of these projects. (Boeing was already involved somewhat with the SuperJet)



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineparapente From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1548 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4859 times:

2 things.

1.You will have read all the posts from A&B on the reengining of the 737/320. For airbus there is little doubt that this is primarily aimed at creating a trancon/tranatlantic 321.That obviously being a 757 replacement.

2.As for the phenominal market below the 737/320. At last count there were 5 planes in creation/production from Japan,China,Russia,Brazil and Canada. (The UK and Holland having bowed out). Do you want more? Oh and considering the reaction to the closest new compeditor at Farnbrough "C".No interest and no orders (not one) hmmm.

I think A&B are fundamentally making all the right decisions!


User currently offlineElite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2793 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4841 times:

This may be a long shot, but small, niche market routes may perhaps not be in the plans of Airbus or Boeing in the future. Small planes with just 50 or 60 seats may be replaced by buses or trains or whatever it is in the future, but I think there will be less and less of these tiny routes and both A & B will focus more on the routes that have a strong holding for air travel.

User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12403 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4792 times:
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Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
No, the 50-110 seaters.

They're not in that segment today, I don't think they'll be there 'tomorrow' either. Yes, both the A318 and 737-600 just touch the top-end of that range, but it's not an area of great interest (or sales) for either company.

I expect new single-aisle families from both companies to be 150-seaters for the smallest model.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30641 posts, RR: 84
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4666 times:
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The 787-8 started life as a smaller plane, closer to the 767-300ER in size than the 767-400ER/A330-200. In discussions with customers, those customers stated they wanted a larger aircraft, similar in size to the A330-200.

The original A350 started life at the same passenger capacity as the A330-200 and A330-300 with a possible third-stretch with capacity equal to the 777-200. In discussions with customers, those customers stated they wanted more seats so Airbus widened the cabin and lengthened the fuselage to accommodate them.

So no, I do not believe Airbus and Boeing are leaving too large a gap as that is a gap their customers asked them for and those customers have responded with close to 1500 orders for both families.


User currently offlineJHCRJ700 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3654 times:

As has been stated above in different ways I too don't see B/A going into these markets. Boeing arguably failed with the 737-600, Killed off the 717, and Airbus didn't do so hot with the A318. Also, look at the small interest in the Embraer 195/ C series/ CRJ1000. Speaking of the CRJ1000 what is the status of that project? Any orders?
There isn't much money to be made in these markets when compared to the money that can be made in the larger segments.

But, like has been discussed to death in the forums, whoever can come up with a direct replacement to the 757 will do outstanding.      



RUSH
User currently onlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3739 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2490 times:

Any chance the OP was talking about the 150-250 seat segment, which is either empty or filled with overstretched single aisle aircrafts?


Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
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