Have A & B Left Too Much Space At The Bottom? — Civil Aviation Forum

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Have A & B Left Too Much Space At The Bottom?

flipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1522 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4321 times:

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Both Boeing and Airbus seem to be making generations of aircraft that are slightly bigger but with this last round a la A350 and 787. With certain aircraft nearing the end of their production times, A330 and 767, (granted they may not be ending production but investment is all but drying up) and with 757s and A300/310 not being a shock when they are retired any more does it seem like both A & B have managed to leave them selves too big of a gap below to have a single family of narrowbody aircraft? Even with a conservative estimate a family of aircraft us going to be $15b, can and how will A&B overcome this?

Sorry for being difficult to read, it's difficult to compose on the phone.

Fred

9 replies: All unread, jump to last

BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14330 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4306 times:

Quoting flipdewaf (Thread starter):
Even with a conservative estimate a family of aircraft us going to be $15b, can and how will A&B overcome this?

I think that they will end up leaving planes under 120 seats (and possibly up to 150) to the likes of Embraer, Bombardier, and others. The fact is that Boeing and Airbus have finite resources and those resources are generally better spend making the big ticket planes rather than slugging it out with smaller planes.

Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?

icna05e From France, joined Feb 2006, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4192 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
slugging it out with smaller planes.

Which ones? Those that bring in half their revenues?

BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14330 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4179 times:

Quoting icna05e (Reply 2):
Which ones? Those that bring in half their revenues?

No, the 50-110 seaters. Sure it's a big market, but there is more money to be made with the larger planes. And none of this precludes Airbus or Boeing from being a partner on some of these projects. (Boeing was already involved somewhat with the SuperJet)

Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?

parapente From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1315 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4162 times:

2 things.

1.You will have read all the posts from A&B on the reengining of the 737/320. For airbus there is little doubt that this is primarily aimed at creating a trancon/tranatlantic 321.That obviously being a 757 replacement.

2.As for the phenominal market below the 737/320. At last count there were 5 planes in creation/production from Japan,China,Russia,Brazil and Canada. (The UK and Holland having bowed out). Do you want more? Oh and considering the reaction to the closest new compeditor at Farnbrough "C".No interest and no orders (not one) hmmm.

I think A&B are fundamentally making all the right decisions!

Elite From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2006, 2760 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4144 times:

This may be a long shot, but small, niche market routes may perhaps not be in the plans of Airbus or Boeing in the future. Small planes with just 50 or 60 seats may be replaced by buses or trains or whatever it is in the future, but I think there will be less and less of these tiny routes and both A & B will focus more on the routes that have a strong holding for air travel.

scbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 11361 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4095 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
No, the 50-110 seaters.

They're not in that segment today, I don't think they'll be there 'tomorrow' either. Yes, both the A318 and 737-600 just touch the top-end of that range, but it's not an area of great interest (or sales) for either company.

I expect new single-aisle families from both companies to be 150-seaters for the smallest model.

Four more years!

Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26701 posts, RR: 83
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3969 times:

The 787-8 started life as a smaller plane, closer to the 767-300ER in size than the 767-400ER/A330-200. In discussions with customers, those customers stated they wanted a larger aircraft, similar in size to the A330-200.

The original A350 started life at the same passenger capacity as the A330-200 and A330-300 with a possible third-stretch with capacity equal to the 777-200. In discussions with customers, those customers stated they wanted more seats so Airbus widened the cabin and lengthened the fuselage to accommodate them.

So no, I do not believe Airbus and Boeing are leaving too large a gap as that is a gap their customers asked them for and those customers have responded with close to 1500 orders for both families.

JHCRJ700 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2957 times:

As has been stated above in different ways I too don't see B/A going into these markets. Boeing arguably failed with the 737-600, Killed off the 717, and Airbus didn't do so hot with the A318. Also, look at the small interest in the Embraer 195/ C series/ CRJ1000. Speaking of the CRJ1000 what is the status of that project? Any orders?
There isn't much money to be made in these markets when compared to the money that can be made in the larger segments.

But, like has been discussed to death in the forums, whoever can come up with a direct replacement to the 757 will do outstanding.

RUSH

francoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3195 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1793 times:

Any chance the OP was talking about the 150-250 seat segment, which is either empty or filled with overstretched single aisle aircrafts?

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...

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