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Boeing 787-9: New EIS 2015?  
User currently offline328JET From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 16229 times:

According the new issue from the german aviation magazine "Flug Revue" the EIS of the B787-9 is 2015 now.

Did i miss something?

I always heard late 2013.


 

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 1074 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 16136 times:

Nowadays delays are so familiar with any brand any manufacturer. I hope no cancellation take place due to this new delivery date.
BTW who ordered 787-9 ?


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8554 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 16111 times:
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Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 1):
BTW who ordered 787-9 ?

NZ is the launch customer , and , so far as I know , are still due to take delivery at the end of 2013.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinevirginblue4 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 902 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 16068 times:

Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 1):
BTW who ordered 787-9 ?

190 ordered

Air New Zealand - 8 (Launch Customer)
Air Pacific - 8
Arik Air - 7
British Airways -16
BBJ - 3
Continental Airlines- 14
Etihad - 35
ILFC - 7
LAN - 4
Nakash (are these private?) - 2
Qantas - 35
Singapore Airlines - 20
Unidentified - 16
Virgin Atlantic - 15

(From Wiki)

Jordan



The amazing tale of flight.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30910 posts, RR: 87
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 15901 times:
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Seems very unlikely to me, since they have or are very close to reaching firm configuration and the CHS FAL should be ready in addition to the "surge FAL" at PAE.

Alenia is planning to start construction of 787-9 fuselage barrels in 2012 and AA filed their latest 10-Q on Wednesday in which they reported coming to an agreement with Boeing to defer their first delivery of their 42 787-9s to 2014 (assuming they and the pilots ever come to an agreement) so that seems to imply a 2015 EIS is incorrect.

[Edited 2010-08-14 12:27:14]

User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5752 posts, RR: 47
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 15842 times:

Talk to people in the know about this and it is absolutely incorrect.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1584 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 15833 times:

From the thread Boeing Still inspecting 787 Dreamliners:

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 33):
My Italian is a little rusty, but from what I understand Alenia has been asked to increase production of 787 shipsets beyond the previous plan, from 25 to 30 in 2010 and from 45 to 52 in 2011. They are going to augment their workforce by 35 'specialists' from Romania.

http://www.dsalenia.it/doc/Grottaglie-5-2010.pdf
"L’azienda per fronteggiare l’aumento di produzione (da 25 a 30 fusoliere per il 2010 e da 45 a 52 per il 2011, mentre nel 2012 è prevista l'avvio della linea di produzione del modello 787 allungato, con la produzione di 3 esemplari) - si legge nel
comunicato Fiom - ha comunicato la necessità di aumentare per tutto il 2010 di 60 unità la forza dello stabilimento di 904 lavoratori, attraverso l’utilizzo nel montaggio di 35 lavoratori specializzati dalla Romania»."

The other interesting bit is that 2012 is to see the production of the first 3 fuselage shipsets for the 787-9.

Thanks, Rheinbote. That should put an end to this rumor



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offlineBoeEngr From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 321 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 15768 times:

I work on the -9 program and this would be news to me. Absolutely not true...

User currently offlinedynamicsguy From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 873 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 15228 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
Seems very unlikely to me, since they have or are very close to reaching firm configuration

Yep, firm configuration was about a month and a half ago. I haven't heard anything about a delay of that magnitude.


User currently offline328JET From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 14261 times:

To give a little more detail about the source:

Flug Revue Issue September 2010
Page 29

It says in german:

"Die Indienststellung der B787-9 ist laut Mike Sinnet für 2015 geplant."

translated:

"Die EIS of the B787-9 is planned for 2015 according Mike Sinnet."


(Mike Sinnet is director of 787 systems)


The magazine Flug Revue is very old and accurate aviation magazine and i am pretty sure they really got this info from Mr. Sinnet.

.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30910 posts, RR: 87
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 14188 times:
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Quoting 328JET (Reply 9):
The magazine Flug Revue is very old and accurate aviation magazine and i am pretty sure they really got this info from Mr. Sinnet.

Even the best make mistakes.

I can find no comments by him relating to a 787-9 EIS of 2015. On July 24th he was in New Zealand and he stated NZ would receive their first 787-9s in 2013.

I imagine they are either quoting Mr. Sinnet out of context (he may be referring to the EIS for the 787-9 with a customer) or they just got it wrong and he was speaking about something else.

[Edited 2010-08-14 15:30:38]

User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8554 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13914 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
I imagine they are either quoting Mr. Sinnet out of context (he may be referring to the EIS for the 787-9 with a customer) or they just got it wrong and he was speaking about something else.

My guess is that he was talking about EIS for a specific customer rather than for the type . Since it is a German magazine I wondered if they might be talking about EIS for Air Berlins 787s , which I believe is 2015 , OTOH I think that AB has -8s on order rather than -9s ?



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineflybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 13765 times:

There are no grounds to this EIS date. It's only 2010 now so I doubt any of the top brass will report a 2 year slide in the program when firm config. was reported a couple months ago. I think a reporter with EADS biases may have written this misinformation to get the rumor mill grinding. The 787 program may have issues, but the reason why Boeing took on more -9 design work from its suppliers and partners was to accelerate entry into service, NOT put the program at risk to repeat -8 schedule slides.

I fully anticipate EIS for the -9 by 2013 as reported by Boeing. Boeing seems to be throwing everything they have to ensure that the -9 delivers on time and is a superior product compared to the -8.



"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently offlineRheinbote From Germany, joined May 2006, 1968 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 13667 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
He's probably being quoted out of context.
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 11):
My guess is that he was talking about EIS for a specific customer rather than for the type
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 11):
I think a reporter with EADS biases may have written this misinformation

How about a simple typo?


User currently offline328JET From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 13640 times:

@ Rheinbote

Absolutely possible.


User currently offlinehawkercamm From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2007, 405 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 13419 times:

Incorrect!!!
Give or take(?) a few months maybe. But AFAIK there are no major delays?
B787-8 EIS* 2010 well that is a difference question. Q1/Q2 2011 would be more realistic.
*=first flight with passengers on a revenue flight!


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8554 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 12838 times:
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Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 13):
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 11):
I think a reporter with EADS biases may have written this misinformation

How about a simple typo?

or indeed a misquote , easily done , as you have shown above by quoting me on something I did not write  



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 12496 times:

Surely it can't take 5 years for a lengthened derivative design of a type already flying to be built, certified, and delivered?!

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15735 posts, RR: 27
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 12445 times:

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 17):
Surely it can't take 5 years for a lengthened derivative design of a type already flying to be built, certified, and delivered?

Well, it could theoretically, and the 787-9 is more than just a stretched 787-8. There have been a lot of other improvements incorporated in the newer design, especially when you consider how much development time there was between the -8 design freeze and the -9 design freeze relatively recently.

That said, the 787-9 design is now frozen, so I don't think that it could possibly take until 2015 without some serious production issues.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11206 times:

Quoting 328JET (Reply 9):
"Die EIS of the B787-9 is planned for 2015 according Mike Sinnet."


(Mike Sinnet is director of 787 systems)

He used to be 787 systems director...now he's 787 chief engineer. He ought to know when the -9 is supposed to EIS, and I have a tough time believing he'd spill 2015 to the German press before telling the rest of Boeing, the customers, the shareholders, and the suppliers.

Tom.


User currently offlineRheinbote From Germany, joined May 2006, 1968 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10329 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 16):
or indeed a misquote , easily done , as you have shown above by quoting me on something I did not write

Case in point, yes   Apologies   


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4395 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10288 times:

Either a misprint, or where they speaking about a version with higher MTOW and extended range 787-900ER? 2013 is ambitious, but 2015 first announced in a German magazine is out of question.

User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4723 posts, RR: 39
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10196 times:
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Quoting BoeEngr (Reply 7):
I work on the -9 program and this would be news to me. Absolutely not true...


I will take your word upon this issue. I can not believe 2015 to be the accurate date. It must be a misprint in the magazine (which is by itself a good and usually very reliable magazine afaik) or a misinterpretation or something. I will stick with an EIS in 2013, which is late enough as it is compared to the earliest delivery schedules for the B787-9 we have seen many years ago.


User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 9460 times:

This does not sound true!
But the freaky thing about the B787 program is that "every" rumour about delays proves to be correct eventually.


User currently offlineRheinbote From Germany, joined May 2006, 1968 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8675 times:

Quoting Chiad (Reply 23):
"every" rumour about delays proves to be correct eventually.

Rumor: A third 787 final assembly line is going to be set up on Mars.  


25 ckfred : Don't forget that AA has 50 787-9s ordered, with a large number on options. But the order is contingent on getting a contract with the pilots. So, if
26 Stitch : They have 42 and they just negotiated with Boeing to defer delivery of the first tranche to 2014.
27 Post contains images Antoniemey : When Boeing is able to deliver the aircraft doesn't matter to AA's negotiations. They can always defer delivery. In fact, they can defer it pretty mu
28 Post contains images Chiad : Hey Rheinbote ... I very carefully wrote "every" RUMOUR ABOUT DELAYS proves to be correct eventually.
29 328JET : I hope that 2015 is not correct, as in contrast to the B787-8, i find the B787-9 the most interesting aircraft of the B787-family. But, 2015 is not so
30 brons2 : Have they even ever signed a formal contract for these planes?
31 Post contains images Rheinbote : But the FAL on Mars is going to cut down on customer delivery delays big time.
32 Stitch : They have a firm order in place with Boeing, but the trigger to execute it is the pilot's union agreeing to AA's terms, which is why Boeing has yet t
33 EA772LR : I think it's amazing we have a member on here who has public said in this thread that he's heard no such rumors, that it would be news to him, and fee
34 Antoniemey : At least it will once they get the Earth-Mars shuttle line going at regular intervals so they can get the planes back here reliably.
35 BoeingVista : What? No!
36 328JET : @ EA772LR Do you really mean that serious?
37 EA772LR : Sure I'm serious. BoeEngr has been very credible, and for him to be completely in the dark about a slip in EIS of the program he works on would appea
38 328JET : "but as others have noted, their report of a slippage isn't meshing with what we're hearing from Boeing." What did we hear from Boeing in the last two
39 EA772LR : I understand what you're saying, but we never heard from a member who participated on this forum who chimed in before.
40 BoeEngr : Note there is a difference between a delay that is already impacting EIS (I know of none) and a potential future delay due to problems that have not y
41 BoeingVista : And as it has now been "announced" in Flug Review the delay can subsequently be dismissed by Boeing as old news like they are trying to do with the 7
42 Post contains links trex8 : maybe this reporter has ESP! this certainly isn't a good omen even though it may end up being nothing, though it would impact the -8 first http://www.
43 nomadd22 : What should have discredited this whole story is that quote. Mike Sinnet obviously didn't release that kind of news like that.[Edited 2010-08-16 15:4
44 tdscanuck : The only requirement for the 787-9 is that the 787-8 gets certified...delays in the 787-8 certification don't immediately delay 787-9 certification u
45 Post contains images Hamlet69 : But your logic is, well, illogical. After all. . . . . . if all Boeing management (and 787 program managers in particular) are as shadowy and inept a
46 Post contains links GBan : After wondering how long this thread has become I had a look at Flug Revue: they have corrected the errorr and apologize for it: http://www.flugrevue.
47 Post contains images 328JET : @ Gban That is fantastic news !!! So the mistake was really a typo by the magazine. That means we all can relax and do not need to discuss in this thr
48 ManuCH : As this turned out to be a typo, I am locking this thread. Any additional posts that are made to this thread after this post will be removed for house
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