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Aegean Sees Large Loss, Return Planes, Cut Routes.  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24312 posts, RR: 47
Posted (3 years 8 months 2 days ago) and read 7617 times:

Aegean Airlines posted its first half 2010 results today. Carrier saw its first loss since 2004, reporting a €32.6m loss on essentially flat revenues and passengers compared to a €13.4m profit in 2009.

Carrier citied, the Greek economic crisis which has reduced Greek origin traffic, rise in fuel cost, and drop in Euro compared to Dollar as the principal negative drivers.

As a result, the carrier will reduce capacity going into the winter. 2 RJ100 Avro’s were returned to lessors as scheduled in July, and the carriers two ATR-72s will now be withdrawn in September.

Due to the weak environment and continued losses, two domestic and three international routes will be discontinued.

ATH-BEG
ATH-IOA
ATH-KVA
ATH-TIA
ATH-VIE

The company stressed the importance of its planned merger with Olympic, which if approved could by the summer 2011 provide better market conditions.

In good news, the carrier will commence code-share with Continental including on the ATH-EWR route effective September 1st.

Company press release
http://en.aegeanair.com/news.aspx?newsItem=775

News story
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE67H1KN20100818


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9954 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7496 times:

I recall reading somewhere that the planned merger with Olympic might be in jeopardy. Am I wrong?


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26488 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7219 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 1):
I recall reading somewhere that the planned merger with Olympic might be in jeopardy. Am I wrong?

This will actually go slightly in favor of the merger, it shows that due to the economic crisis and seasonal traffic a merger is the most sensible idea for the Greek aviation market. Giving up routes and slots will also make their case stronger at the EU enquiry.



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2779 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7180 times:

Greece really only needs 1 major carrier, as it is a relatively small market, in both population and area. It has ample competition from foreign airlines, so 1 main carrier would be a strong move for the country.

User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2309 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7095 times:

Can one assume that the combined carrier will be a *A member since Aegean just joined?


The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2779 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7053 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4):
Can one assume that the combined carrier will be a *A member since Aegean just joined?

I dont think we can assume anything these days. Its most likely to be the case, but things change.

[Edited 2010-08-19 00:39:13]

User currently offlineFlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7379 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7024 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 1):
I recall reading somewhere that the planned merger with Olympic might be in jeopardy. Am I wrong?

The problem is that merging two "donkeys" will not create a "race horse" if a serious reorganisation plan is not decided ...

[Edited 2010-08-19 00:50:24]

User currently offlinejoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3149 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6864 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4):
Can one assume that the combined carrier will be a *A member since Aegean just joined?

According to Star, yes: http://www.starallianceemployees.com...h=feec54f40f022fee4430f854f4aa99b0


User currently offlineSR4ever From Luxembourg, joined Mar 2010, 799 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6634 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4):
Can one assume that the combined carrier will be a *A member since Aegean just joined?

Ideally yes, but with OS and TK nearby being already in *A, anti-trust appraisal may get tougher...


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24312 posts, RR: 47
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6254 times:

Unless the merger gets approved, I believe Aegean is setting itself up to shrink domestic flying.

With the return of the 2 RJ100, and its sole 2 ATR-72s, only 4 RJ100s are left which means much of the domestic flying will be on larger A320/A321s which are too big for many markets.

Also the carrier saw a pretty anemic system load factor of 64.8%, which with a decline in yields certainly does not help the situation.

Kinda a shame as Aegean has done quite well till now posting continual profits (often small, but never the less profit) for the last 5-years, but this 6-mos report essentially produced what is a massive €50m shift in earnings on a small'ish revenue base of €267.4.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9954 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6233 times:

I would think that Aegean needs the ATRs for some of the island flying that it stands to inherit from Olympic. Maybe even the RJs. Who else, besides the ferry services, offers service to most of the Greek islands?


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineac888yow From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 522 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5682 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 6):
The problem is that merging two "donkeys" will not create a "race horse" if a serious reorganisation plan is not decided ...

Aegean is anything but a "donkey".


User currently offlineAirportugal310 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3447 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5668 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 6):
The problem is that merging two "donkeys" will not create a "race horse" if a serious reorganisation plan is not decided ...

Priceless analogy!

Im of the thinking that until Greece can pull itself out of a rut, which wont be for some time, then not even the best run airline could survive there.



hit it and quit it
User currently offlineODAFZ From Afghanistan, joined Jul 2004, 356 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5513 times:

On the other hand, at Olympic Air"
ATH-BRU is reduced from2 daily to 1 daily
ATH-MXP is canceled
ATH-CDG is reducedf rom3 to2 daily flights and
ATH-LHR is reduced from 21 to 17 flights per week
But increased capacity and flights on the following sectors :
ATH-FCO 320 replaces 319, ATH-SOF 11weekly DH8 replaced by A319
ATH-TIA is increased to 12 flights from 7 flights per week
ATH-BUH increases from11 to 12
SKG-LHR is launched as 3 weekly flights per week
Whereas Aegean increase capacity on ATH-CAI from RJ85 to A320, ATH-FCO increases to 16 weekly instead of 14, SKG-FRA from A320 to A321.

I see more of a restructuration and redistribution of routes at both carriers to maximize their potential in view of their pending merger

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 6):
The problem is that merging two "donkeys" will not create a "race horse" if a serious reorganisation plan is not decided ...

I do resent dear sir those blank statements which are not acceptable, what reorganisation do you propose.

Not long time ago there were 2 donkeys operating in my country , they merged and the result was a race horse that was instrumental in creating one of the first a hub-and-spoke system known to the world of aviation. if your memory fails you the 2 companies were MEA and Air Liban. I do expect and i wish that the merger between the 2 companies l yields a race horse , isn't Greece the birth place of Pegasus after all.


User currently offlinePutnik From Serbia, joined Aug 2007, 228 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5485 times:

Does anyone have a clue about at what date the route to Belgrade is being terminated? (along with Vienna and Tirana)
The statement says "immediate effect". Yikes!



LH504 - we always remember our first :)
User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26488 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5378 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 6):
The problem is that merging two "donkeys" will not create a "race horse" if a serious reorganisation plan is not decided ...

Your knowledge of the two airlines is quite limited if thats the best you can come up with. Not smart !

Quoting ODAFZ (Reply 13):
On the other hand, at Olympic Air"

The whole thing of cutting down routes and combining A3/OA network/schedule is the best way . What airlines in Europe are not in loss making mode. Olympic Air are well placed with a decent product to survive, as far as Olympic is concerned they have made a leap forward in their offering both on the ground and onboard.



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24312 posts, RR: 47
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5318 times:

Quoting Putnik (Reply 14):
Does anyone have a clue about at what date the route to Belgrade is being terminated? (along with Vienna and Tirana)
The statement says "immediate effect". Yikes!

According to GDS it shows all A3 flights zero'd out past the following dates:

Berlgrade: 30 October
Tirana: 12 September
Vienna: 29 October*

*In the case of Vienna however some early October flights also show zero availability, so I'm not sure what is going on there. I guess better wait a week or so for schedules to be updated fully.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAirportugal310 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3447 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5218 times:

Quoting oa260 (Reply 15):
Your knowledge of the two airlines is quite limited if thats the best you can come up with. Not smart !

In this case, if you disagree, then you should educate those of us who do not understand why his opinion is 'incorrect'.

Thank you.



hit it and quit it
User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26488 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5167 times:

Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 17):
In this case, if you disagree, then you should educate those of us who do not understand why his opinion is 'incorrect'.

Aegean as stated above has made a profit for the last 5 years , just because this year it doesnt like many others doesnt make it a donkey. There are plenty of others in Europe namely in the Iberian peninsula who can have that title.

Consider yourself educated .

Thank You



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineFlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7379 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4841 times:

Quoting ODAFZ (Reply 13):
I do resent dear sir those blank statements which are not acceptable, what reorganisation do you propose.
Quoting oa260 (Reply 15):
Your knowledge of the two airlines is quite limited if thats the best you can come up with. Not smart

Come on ... OA has always been a big joke !
Changing from Olympic Airways to Olympic Airlines was not enough to turn an Administration into a reliable and profitable airline.

What reorganisation plan do I propose ?

- Fire the thousands of employees who are paid by OA for just ... nothing
- Cut the corruption that "gangrenes" the airline at all levels, like it gangrenes the whole country more and more each and every day
- Explain to the OA staff the notion of "Customer" and "service" ... Everybody who has experienced OA and the ground staff at ATH knows what i am talking about.
- Rationalize the fleet and build schedules to organize ATH as a real, reliable and attractive Regional Hub
- Stop considering potential customers as just cash cows, like by charging up to 157€ for a 15 minutes domestic flight ATH-JMK


ALITALIA was in the same situation not so long ago ... it is now on the good way to recovery.
OA must follow the same route. So does Aegean.

Quoting ODAFZ (Reply 13):
Not long time ago there were 2 donkeys operating in my country , they merged and the result was a race horse that was instrumental in creating one of the first a hub-and-spoke system known to the world of aviation. if your memory fails you the 2 companies were MEA and Air Liban.

The situation was far different back in 1963. Moreover, MEA and Air Liban were certainly not donkeys !


User currently offlineAirportugal310 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3447 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4785 times:

Quoting oa260 (Reply 18):
Consider yourself educated .

I did not learn a single thing in your statement.

Anyone else care to elaborate without the sarcasm?



hit it and quit it
User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26488 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4701 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 19):
Come on ... OA has always been a big joke !
Changing from Olympic Airways to Olympic Airlines

You have kind of hung yourself with your further elaboration   Suggest you read what happened last year  

But just to give a head start :

Olympic Air is the largest Greek airline by destinations served, formed from the privatization of the former national carrier Olympic Airlines. Olympic Air commenced limited operations on 29 September 2009, after Olympic Airlines ceased all operations, with the official full-scale opening of the company taking place two days later on 1 October 2009. Its main hub is Athens International Airport, with Thessaloniki International Airport and Rhodes International Airport serving as secondary hubs. The airline is headquartered in Koropi, Kropia, East Attica.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Air

Oh and the product of the new private carrier owned by MIG :

Olympic Air Η Ελλάδα ψηλά - Greece Flying High (by OA260 Nov 7 2009 in Trip Reports)

The OA you speak of ceased to exist as a company last year.  

The ground staff / civil servants all went with the old company also so again they dont exist anymore.


Some recent reviews :

OLYMPIC AIR customer review : 12 August 2010 : by Brett Watson (Australia)

Trip Rating : 9/10

Business

Rhodes-Athens business class. Staff friendly and attentive with a good standard of English. Food a small salad type meal. On arrival at ATH business pax were provided with a separate bus to the terminal, arrival was quick and efficient.

---

OLYMPIC AIR customer review : 10 August 2010 : by J Mitchell (Netherlands)

Trip Rating : 10/10

Economy

IST-ATH and ATH-AMS. Seamless and quick check-in, boarding and baggage. Modern, clean aircraft (B737 and A320). Meals were great and surprisingly substantial for short flights. Good experience and would fly Olympic again.

http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/olym_air.htm

[Edited 2010-08-19 13:13:37]


AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently onlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9954 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4637 times:

Quoting ODAFZ (Reply 13):
one of the first a hub-and-spoke system known to the world of aviation.

After, one of, if not the first of the pioneers of the hub and spoke system, DL.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineFlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7379 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4506 times:

Quoting oa260 (Reply 21):
The OA you speak of ceased to exist as a company last year.

On the paper, yes ... that's easy part.

In he facts, it's another story ...


User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26488 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4461 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 23):
On the paper, yes ... that's easy part.

In he facts, it's another story ...

Sorry its black and white what you wrote those are the facts you were mistaken and you have no evidence to back it up to the contrary. Speak to those that actually use the product and know the new airline. It is a tad naive to compare an old company that doesn't even exist anymore with a private company that is nothing like the previous and has no other association other than they leased the logo. The product and experience speak for themselves. You cant make brash statements about a company that you have no personal knowledge of or understanding. To do so is quite unprofessional and wrong. The government owned company and product you talked of ceased to exist you need to understand that.



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
25 vam : Two airlines were branded donkeys with no arguments to back that opinion. Yet when someone suggests the opposite, they are asked to explain themselve
26 alitis : Completely off topic, but I'm asking here since the audience following this thread may know. What is the disposition of the 4 former Olympic Airlines
27 lewis : I flew out of Athens two weeks ago, they were still there Ummm, no, OA is now a private company with a completely new fleet, crews and product. It is
28 Thediplomat : I'm not calling the new OA a donkey, Only time will tell if the airline has turned the corner. At no stage was Aegean ever a donkey - in fact that the
29 oa260 : I was wondering the same , I havnt been in Athens this Summer, I guess they will leave them to decay! They will end up like the B747 at Hellinikon. T
30 Barbro : It is surprising that there are no big charter-airlines in Greece, the way there are in Turkey. I believe tourism has been a big industry in Greece, c
31 ODAFZ : certainly but I stressed it is one of the first and not the first ( it is certainly the first in the Middle East). Another unsupported blank statemen
32 TK787 : Simply a bigger place; 7 times more population, 3 times bigger economy, 6 times more acreage and generally a younger population. Bigger the pie, more
33 SergioAEE : Its going to be interesting in the next couple of months/years to see what will happen to Aegean if the merger with Olympic Air happens and if it does
34 ODAFZ : Care to elaborate on the above, your sources?, as you have read from the thread starter , that revenues and pax carried were flat, with the increase
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