Acey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1338 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3934 times:
Wow, I'm surprised to see some regionals on the list, I never realized how big OO and MQ really are. I'm also somewhat surprised how much cargo DL is carrying. I know they've been touting their "renewed focus" on cargo, but I had no idea that they carried almost as much as Atlas, although I don't think Atlas is that huge. I'm assuming a lot of that lift came from former NW contracts? Anyway, very interesting info, thanks for sharing.
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6515 posts, RR: 11 Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3906 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Top US Airlines 2009 in Cargo Revenue Ton Miles (millions)
1. FedEx 9,685
2. UPS 6,467
3. Atlas 2,381
4. Delta 2,287
5. American 1,664
6. United 1,603
7. Polar 1,215
8. Southern 1,019
9. Kalitta 945
10. Continental 901
Seems like DL is still hauling A LOT of freight, although now only in the belly of a/c. Still, quite impressive. I'm guessing since this is all of 2010, most of the #s is from when they still had the 742s. Wonder how much they will fall for next year's list.
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LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22026 posts, RR: 51 Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3883 times:
Yes the Delta cargo numbers are boosted thanks to the former NWA freighter operations which ran till December.
I'm sure the 2010 stats will see DL with significantly less tonnage.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
TPADave From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 58 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3741 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): Top US Airlines 2009 per Revenue Passenger Miles (billions)
1. Delta 162.8
2. American 122.4
3. United 100.3
4. Continental 77.7
Nice to see DL's RPMs up there. Hope they can find a way to remain top dog after the CO/UA deal.
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6515 posts, RR: 11 Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3602 times:
Quoting TPADave (Reply 5): Nice to see DL's RPMs up there. Hope they can find a way to remain top dog after the CO/UA deal.
I think the overall shift for most, if not all majors is this (just from what i've seen with DL):
-Maximize a/c usage
-Reduce 50 seater flying; making cuts in-line with mainline shrinkage
-Upguaging on underserved routes; most notably seeing more F seats (introduction of the CR7s/9s in markets that saw all CR2s in some cases)
-Focus on core markets
-FF retention
-Cabin Enhancement
-(Call me crazy on this one) See which major will drop the first bag fee first. If ever.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
How many of those are SkyWest flights and not a subcontracted flight to a major? For example, if I book it on Delta, I check in at Delta, it says Delta on the aircraft, has a skymiles magazine on board and the F.A's are in Delta uniforms then it sure looks like Delta and not Skywest. Skywest would be nowhere near the size they are without all the regional contracts they have, I don't think it is even possible to book a Skywest ticket you have to go to UA, DL, FL. Fantastic business for them but hardly a standalone airline.
binmonster From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 215 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3533 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4): Yes the Delta cargo numbers are boosted thanks to the former NWA freighter operations which ran till December.
I'm sure the 2010 stats will see DL with significantly less tonnage.
The word I am hearing, 2010 Cargo numbers (belly only) are out performing 2009 (mixed freighters / belly)
2010 is looking to be a good year all around for Delta.
TPADave From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 58 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3533 times:
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 6): -(Call me crazy on this one) See which major will drop the first bag fee first. If ever
I'm with you on that! I suspect in the short term the status quo will remain, however as the economy recovers and airlines look to differentiate themselves I think this may be an easy first step. On the other hand, airlines have grown used to this as a cash cow item and the longer it stays in place the more customers will get used to coming to the airport and opening a vein while the airline drinks.
Just look to Southwest as an example of one carrier making a name for themselves over free bags...
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6515 posts, RR: 11 Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3474 times:
Quoting BD338 (Reply 7): How many of those are SkyWest flights and not a subcontracted flight to a major? For example, if I book it on Delta, I check in at Delta, it says Delta on the aircraft, has a skymiles magazine on board and the F.A's are in Delta uniforms then it sure looks like Delta and not Skywest. Skywest would be nowhere near the size they are without all the regional contracts they have, I don't think it is even possible to book a Skywest ticket you have to go to UA, DL, FL. Fantastic business for them but hardly a standalone airline.
Noone ever said they were...or is trying to make them look like these are their flights.
The point is they are #4 for departures system wide, period.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
BD338 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 595 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3442 times:
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 10): Noone ever said they were...or is trying to make them look like these are their flights.
The point is they are #4 for departures system wide, period.
Skywest are listed as the #4 airline for departures, fact is it is impossible to buy a Skywest ticket. I have no issue with Skywest, in fact the vast majority of my flights are on Skywest but I question how many of the 'general public' realize they are flying on a Skywest aircraft rather then an actual Delta (in the case of my flights) owned aircraft/crew etc.
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6515 posts, RR: 11 Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3406 times:
Quoting BD338 (Reply 11): Skywest are listed as the #4 airline for departures, fact is it is impossible to buy a Skywest ticket. I have no issue with Skywest, in fact the vast majority of my flights are on Skywest but I question how many of the 'general public' realize they are flying on a Skywest aircraft rather then an actual Delta (in the case of my flights) owned aircraft/crew etc.
I agree with most of what you said save the last part. SkyWest actually owns quite a few of their a/c flying around or are the actual lease holders of the ones owned by banks. Many others actually sub-lease from the bank through DL or their respective mainline partner. Also, the crew is all OO, not sure how DL fits into that.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
BOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 784 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3282 times:
Interesting to see that if UA and CO were merged, DL would still come out ahead of it in departures (not so surprising) and overall revenues (surprising to me).
Soon we will have an interesting market dynamic where UA and DL are nearly exactly the same size, and AA is much smaller than either but also much bigger than anyone else.
As for surprise at the size of OO and MQ -- in 2001 AMR was the first company to ever own three major US airlines by the FAA's definition of over $1 billion in annual revenues (AA, TW, MQ).
point2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1959 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3250 times:
Do they give, or is there any way to get, this same info on foreign carriers, but only in terms of their service as it concerns the U.S.? I think that this could be somewhat tricky and difficult to put together. The numbers would be nowhere as big, but it would be curious to see these metrics with foreign carriers in the U.S and their relative strength.
But just guessing at this, I would imaging that AC, BA and LH would be up there.
LHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1368 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3236 times:
Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 13): Soon we will have an interesting market dynamic where UA and DL are nearly exactly the same size, and AA is much smaller than either but also much bigger than anyone else.
And AA used to always big the big dog before DL/NW and UA/CO. Interesting how times change.
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6515 posts, RR: 11 Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3038 times:
By all metrics, AA will still be a pretty robust carrier.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
TPADave From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 58 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2958 times:
Quoting point2point (Reply 14): Do they give, or is there any way to get, this same info on foreign carriers, but only in terms of their service as it concerns the U.S.? I think that this could be somewhat tricky and difficult to put together. The numbers would be nowhere as big, but it would be curious to see these metrics with foreign carriers in the U.S and their relative strength.
But just guessing at this, I would imaging that AC, BA and LH would be up there.
In terms of enplanements see below for 2009 numbers:
1. BA 5.622 million
2. LH 4.787
3. AC 4.763
4. AF 3.559
point2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1959 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2897 times:
Quoting TPADave (Reply 17):
In terms of enplanements see below for 2009 numbers:
1. BA 5.622 million
2. LH 4.787
3. AC 4.763
4. AF 3.559
I'm surprised AC wasn't number one. I figured with all the destinations and frequencies they'd be first (even with smaller aircraft).
Thanks, I got the top 3 correct, but the order slightly off because of BA by about 25.000(?) or so more passengers that AC.
Yes, a bit surprising that AC isn't the largest as you or I thought. So now thinking about it, I would guess that maybe WS and PD take away more passengers from AC then VS does from BA. Maybe a feasible explanation?
I agree with your comments, though I would slightly modify this one to include "continued focus on core markets and expansion into SELECT new markets"
I think another objective of the mergers is too create a large enough customer base to help support the launch of new routes to compete against foreign carriers in select markets.
Quoting TPADave (Reply 17): Quoting point2point (Reply 14):
Do they give, or is there any way to get, this same info on foreign carriers, but only in terms of their service as it concerns the U.S.? I think that this could be somewhat tricky and difficult to put together. The numbers would be nowhere as big, but it would be curious to see these metrics with foreign carriers in the U.S and their relative strength.
But just guessing at this, I would imaging that AC, BA and LH would be up there.
In terms of enplanements see below for 2009 numbers:
1. BA 5.622 million
2. LH 4.787
3. AC 4.763
4. AF 3.559
nwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3324 posts, RR: 9 Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2582 times:
Quoting TPADave (Reply 5): Nice to see DL's RPMs up there. Hope they can find a way to remain top dog after the CO/UA deal.
I'd rather us be the best, as opposed to just the biggest.
Quoting binmonster (Reply 8): The word I am hearing, 2010 Cargo numbers (belly only) are out performing 2009 (mixed freighters / belly)
It's incremental, but I have to think that a lot of stations that are now accepting "regular" freight (as opposed to just DASH) is contributing to that.
Anywhere the rest of us can check out the most current numbers?
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
binmonster From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 215 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2362 times:
Quoting nwaesc (Reply 20): It's incremental, but I have to think that a lot of stations that are now accepting "regular" freight (as opposed to just DASH) is contributing to that.
Anywhere the rest of us can check out the most current numbers?
That info was past along from Cargo VP Shah during a station visit last week. CVG was awarded the Triple Crown.
One of the big factor this year all the 777LRs in service, ie LAX SYD.
TPADave From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 58 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2256 times:
Quoting nwaesc (Reply 20): I'd rather us be the best, as opposed to just the biggest
Oh that goes without saying, but in terms of available metrics I'm just happy seeing the RPM figures. Frankly even if UA/CO surpasses DL as far as size, I think DL's people and customer experience will continue to make them the best. Hopefully that will be reflected in the surveys.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22026 posts, RR: 51 Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2170 times:
Quoting nwaesc (Reply 20): Anywhere the rest of us can check out the most current numbers?
You can look at things like 10Q's.
Cargo revenue increased $29 million(+8%) due to higher cargo yield and international volume, partially offset by capacity reductions. Previous results for the six months ended June 30, 2009 include the operations of dedicated freighter B-747-200F aircraft, which we retired during 2009.
But in general as an industry cargo tonnage is up 30%, and yields 20%+ from the lows experienced in 2009, however Delta will never break the tonnage it could have managed during days of the NWA cargo fleet as it simply does not capacity in the remaining belly fleet.
But being smaller is not bad, hopefully it mean improved profitability as the NWA freighter fleet was reported to be loss making the last couple years especially after the loss of the DHL business to Polar. As indicated above DL managed more revenue on reduced capacity which is a good thing.
As comparison for OALs:
AA tonnage +20.1%, revenue +26.5%
CO tonnage +30.2%, revenue 27.5%
UA tonnage +39%, revenue +41.6%
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
BOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 784 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2160 times:
Quoting LHCVG (Reply 15): And AA used to always big the big dog before DL/NW and UA/CO. Interesting how times change.
I wouldn't say "always." UA was traditionally bigger than AA (before the TW merger), was it not?
In the "old days" the results were much more varied depending on what metrics you used; e.g. EA was once the biggest by passengers carried and AL even had ad campaigns touting itself as "bigger" than the likes of AA, PA and TW by various measures (though I'm not sure it was ever biggest in any category). Examples here, here and here.
Getting There is Half the Fun!
25 nwaesc: Thanks for the info, but I meant somewhere to look in the interim for MTD, YTD, or YOY stats. I'm an avid reader (and thank you), but see above.
26 LAXintl: Yes DOT has some stuff. Summary of Cargo Revenue Tons Enplaned (in thousands) for the first 5mos of 2010: American - 218,576 Atlas - 324,488 Continent
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