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Martinair To Stop Passenger Flights After 52 Years?  
User currently offlinekl5147 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 311 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 22783 times:

Dutch newspaper "het Parool" wrote today (friday August 20th) that MP will cease passenger flights. MP will choose internally during September which company KL or HV will take over their pax-flights. "Mother" KL will decide on September 23th. So after 52 years MP will continue as an all cargo operator. What will happen to the B767's is unsure.


"The world is just a click away!"
106 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinedutchflyboi From Netherlands, joined Apr 2008, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 22660 times:

That would be too bad. On MP's website, they released a statement denying the reports in the Dutch Media. I guess time will tell.
Here is the link (in Dutch) to the press release from MP
http://www.martinair.com/nl_nl/about/press-releases.aspx


User currently offlinekl5147 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 22553 times:

Quoting dutchflyboi (Reply 1):
I guess time will tell.

Indeed, time will tell. here is a link to the newspaper article online. (unfortunate it's in Dutch only)

http://www.parool.nl/parool/nl/30/EC...nair-stopt-passagiersvervoer.dhtml

[Edited 2010-08-20 12:38:07]


"The world is just a click away!"
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9561 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 22530 times:

Let's not get carried away too fast, apparently there hasn't been any decision on this yet. Time will tell how this will move forward...

A388


User currently offlinephotoshooter From Belgium, joined Feb 2010, 450 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 22385 times:
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HEAD SUPPORT

Well I was expecting this moment to be honest.
With KL and Arkefly flying allmost the same routes, the
competition is pretty big. And I don't think HV wants to
take over their B767's since they want to keep their
fleet young.


Photoshooter



'A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.' - Winston Churchill
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 22212 times:

MP Cargo returning to China with Shanghai from 15 September, also resuming San Jose freighters.

User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2961 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 21984 times:

Oh no! How sad.... Such a rich history.


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1444 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 20664 times:

I recall seeing the Martinair DC-10s in Oakland, CA during the summer months. I am sorry to hear this.

User currently offlineMEACEDAR From Lebanon, joined Oct 2006, 753 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 18747 times:

I used to fly MP a lot. Sad to see them go, but on the contrary I would like to see a KL plane here at MCO.

User currently offlineAviationfreak From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 18394 times:

Well, who knows we'll see 332 in HV colors in the future. Would be a nice change seeing only HV 737's here at AMS.

MP began charter flights 52 years ago and for years they were quite a big player in the holiday/charter business. At some point they had DC10, 767, and 757 a/c in the fleet. This is the time I had had my very first flight ever on a MP DC10 when I was eleven years old. Sadly for a few years now cargo is their core business....

[Edited 2010-08-20 23:12:15]


I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 18323 times:

Quoting photoshooter (Reply 4):
And I don't think HV wants to
take over their B767's since they want to keep their
fleet young.

They could use them, as they sometimes send 3 738's to the same destination within one hour.



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineMCO2BRS From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 537 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18308 times:

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 8):
I used to fly MP a lot. Sad to see them go, but on the contrary I would like to see a KL plane here at MCO.

I second that! It would be nice to see some KL metal at MCO. I flew MP a couple of times AMS-MCO on the MD11, that was always fun   . From what I understand MP doesn't do much in the way of passenger ops anyway now as it is. Sad indeed, if this turns out to be the case.

Cheers

MCO 2 BRS


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 979 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18232 times:

It would be nice to see some KL metal at MIA!!

User currently offlineOwleye From Netherlands, joined Feb 2006, 957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18097 times:

Yeah, it's sad. MP was the best Dutch pax airline ever!! Mixed feelings for founder Martin Schröder these days.

User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4365 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18059 times:

Quoting Aviationfreak (Reply 9):

MP began charter flights 52 years ago and for years they were quite a big player in the holiday/charter business. At some point they had DC10, 767, and 757 a/c in the fleet.

And F28s and A310s and MD-83s and 747-200s....


User currently offlinemorvious From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 705 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 17952 times:

I always loved flying with them! If I had to choose between Martinair or Transavia my choice would be always Martinair.

They offered a great service for a charter company in summer months!!!

The discission is not made yet but we all saw this comming! My thoughts will be that MP will expand its cargo little by little after they skip passenger flights.



have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
User currently offlineAMS From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1689 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 17951 times:

Quoting LJ (Reply 14):

And F28s and A310s and MD-83s and 747-200s...

You can also add the A320 which MP flew for a short amount of time. Martinair used to be an active charter company in the last 50+ years, On the bright side the Cargo operations have been quite profitable for MP.


User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5080 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 17854 times:

Well it makes sense. I mean do they really NEED 3 brands?

2 would be sufficient. Ie long haul LCC and shorthaull LCC and KLM. Kind of like what Qantas do with Jetstar.


User currently offlinesimonriat From UK - England, joined Jul 2010, 134 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 17439 times:

I think its been mentioned before but didn't they also operate the MD11?
Have they still got them? How many did/ do they have?

Simon


User currently offlineairbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4207 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 17375 times:

Quoting morvious (Reply 15):
I always loved flying with them! If I had to choose between Martinair or Transavia my choice would be always Martinair.

They offered a great service for a charter company in summer months!!!

I agree. Loved flying their MD11's to my holidays years ago. The the A320 came and my love was over completely.

Nowadays, MP is definitely not the winner anymore. Best Dutch airline to the sun and further is definitely ArkeFly. Great product and friendly on board also.

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 10):

They could use them, as they sometimes send 3 738's to the same destination within one hour

Yeah, on Wednesday mornings they send 7 or 8 B737-800's AMS-FAO within 30 minutes  



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 17309 times:
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Quoting simonriat (Reply 18):
I think its been mentioned before but didn't they also operate the MD11?
Have they still got them? How many did/ do they have?


Yes, MP Cargo operates a fleet of 7 MD-11 freighter aircraft.

MP Cargo Schedule:
http://cargo.martinair.com/wps/wcm/c...MS_15SEP10-30OCT10.pdf?MOD=AJPERES


User currently offlineflypba From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 17052 times:

I thought that AirFrance/KLM wanted to make Martinair the Cargo Airline of the group ... would make sense for them to drop pax flights if this is the case

User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1462 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 16942 times:

Quoting anstar (Reply 17):
Well it makes sense. I mean do they really NEED 3 brands?

I agree. Why keep a separate brand for just a few pax destinations with 4 oddball 767's? Which should have been replaced years ago, they're old and tired and will end up in the desert like the ones that left the fleet last year. The fact that not even a replacement was ordered says enough. There were rumors about some A330 or A343 leftovers from KL or AF, but as said, why keep them under a separate brand?

And I'm not sad to see them go. The last flight I had with MP years ago was MCO-AMS on a 767 with 2-4-2 seating, an absolute horror on an 8-hour flight    For the people working with pax ops at MP it is sad, but I'm sure the unions will make sure they end up at KL or HV, there will be no job losses. In these times, that is quite something and they can be relieved with..

MP needs to concentrate on cargo, it's a strong brand in this area. They can soldier on with MD11F's en 744F's for a while and then switch to 777F and/or hopefully 748F    AF and KL should abandon their dedicated cargo planes and stick to belly freight only. I believe they already are in the process of doing that, transferring all to MP cargo.



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT3,ATP,E90,F50/70,M11,
User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4365 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 16663 times:

Quoting Owleye (Reply 13):
Yeah, it's sad. MP was the best Dutch pax airline ever!! Mixed feelings for founder Martin Schröder these days.

I disagree, MP never was the best Dutch pax airline. Air Holland was probably the best (though I haven't flown Arkefly and Amsterdam Airlines as I don't fly charters anymore). I preferred HV above MP as HV crew was usually more friendly.

MP axing pax flights is something which was to be expected years ago. I'm surprised they have kept those pax flights for so long. After the merger of the offices, merger of both HV and MP brands wouldn't come as a surprise.

Quoting Aviationfreak (Reply 9):
Well, who knows we'll see 332 in HV colors in the future. Would be a nice change seeing only HV 737's here at AMS.

Would also be a return of the widebody in the HV fleet (who would have thought this would happen years ago)


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32172 posts, RR: 72
Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 16399 times:

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 8):
I used to fly MP a lot. Sad to see them go, but on the contrary I would like to see a KL plane here at MCO.

That is making the flawed assumption KLM would replace Martinair on the route. It likely won't. The route survives because it is able to be operated by Martinair, not the other way around.



a.
25 MauriceB : As for now, it's still not sure who will take over these flights, but its more likely KL will instead of HV. AF-KL want's to keep the HV concept in ta
26 MauriceB : True, KLM already serves ATL 3x daily (2x DL, 1x KL) so they will probably stick to that.
27 SCL767 : AF operates into PUJ; thus KL could route AMS-PUJ PAX via CDG. MP's withdrawal from both AUA and CUR will certainly improve their yields on the route
28 MauriceB : AUA/CUR will certainly see an updrage from either KL or Arke or both..its an important market and will always see good payloads. KL didn't fly AUA fo
29 Post contains images keesje : Martinair 767s have real high hours.. End of an era..
30 SCL767 : Perhaps KL will fly AMS-AUA-PBM, AMS-CUR-PBM and/or AMS-AUA-CCS.
31 MauriceB : Doubt that. They have to compete against surinam airways, which offers direct flights against a much cheaper fare.. AUA-CCS is a possibility, but som
32 A388 : I can see what you mean but switching the MP aircraft and crew to HV shouldn't be that big of a problem, contractually there might also not be an iss
33 SCL767 : I also do not think that KL will operate into a South American city via either AUA and/or CUR.
34 Post contains images LifelinerOne : Last information that I have is that Martinair is to become an all cargo operator for both Air France and KLM. Union issues were preventing that in Fr
35 76er : Source?
36 ltbewr : The decline in passanger charter travel due to greater freedoms as to where airlines fly has probalby lead to the end of separate charter companies an
37 cloudyapple : We get them in Hong Kong, part of China, everyday.
38 LJ : Passengers with a holiday package don't want to transfer anywhere. They want to fly nonstop. These passengers will probably go with ArkeFly although
39 Post contains images LifelinerOne : Well.... Me! I will, of course, not mention the names of the people at KLM and Martinair I talk with for my work. Cheers!
40 Post contains images 76er : Anyone but Hartman or Gregorowitsch don't count.
41 photoshooter : The mechanical costs will be too high for Transavia.com. And also, they don't need B767-300's in their fleet during winter season. Maybe in the summe
42 morvious : Well, I'm about to find out on 15 th September. For now MP is on my nr1 Dutch charter list!
43 LJ : One can also argue that this would have happened a few years ago, should SQ gotten their hands on MP. I thnk the only news in LifelinerOnes message w
44 pylon101 : I guess flower business killed pax MartinAir business. Amsterdam is the main center of flower business in the world. We discussed it another day in th
45 A388 : I hope HV will be given those MP charter flights, but that is purely from a spotter's point of view. If KL takes over the MP traffic rights it means
46 AwysBSB : If Martinair became a Netherlands Antilles based company, and its control was shared between Air France - KLM and a strong tour operator, for sure its
47 A388 : Would be great but I don't see that happening, ever. A388
48 SCL767 : Hopefully when Surinam Airways obtains its second A343, PY will operate PBM-AMS-PBM daily during the Summer and Winter high seasons. Also, when PBM-A
49 A388 : That would be fantastic, I also hope that will happen. A388
50 SCL767 : IMO, some have underestimated PY since its fleet renewal. Their flights to MIA via AUA are doing well. As well as the flights between PBM and both CU
51 A388 : Cool, let's hope they will increase their number of flights throughout their network. Before that I think they will start new routes such as South Am
52 SCL767 : Suriname and Brazil have Open Skies and PY recently operated charters into FOR. PBM-BEL-PBM operates 3x weekly. Maybe LATAM will operate into PBM, GE
53 AwysBSB : I agree, but my understanding is that creating a holiday long-haul carrier based in the Netherlands Antilles would be feasible and very profitable, h
54 777way : But not mainland, and HKG people still like to identify themself and their city as seprate despite bing part of.
55 Vasu : Long-haul aircraft in the HV livery might be quite nice....?
56 Post contains images MauriceB : It is a big problem. 2400 crew members retraining for only 3 or 4 planes is a very expensive operation, and it wouldn't make sense to just train like
57 A388 : HV is part of KL/AF so they can retrain and maintain their new longhaul fleet with KL/AF, all the rest will be "in-house" at HV. They will not have a
58 SCL767 : IIRC, PY has a B737F in storage at KUL for regional cargo flights. LATAM plans on doubling their respective fleets by 2016; therefore both airlines w
59 TS-IOR : Sad. I've been on all Martinair PAX aircrafts before they stop Monastir in 2006 if i remember well. The 742s, DC10s, A310s, B757s, A320s, MD82s, 767s.
60 Post contains links and images keesje : I smell a business case for new low cost KLM/AF longer range leisure / charter operations. Similar to Transavia and Cityhopper that are run reasonably
61 Post contains images F9Animal : It would be sad to see them leave the passenger side of flying. While I have have not had the pleasure of flying on them, I still love watching them s
62 B777LRF : My first trip on a MD-80 was courtesy of MP. They were running charters up to my home city once a week, one merry summer many years ago, and were retu
63 A388 : Just heard on tv that MP will be fully absored into KL. Has anyone heard about this? I was hoping we would see an HV A332 take over their routes but u
64 MauriceB : What news channel? Nothing in the news here..
65 fpetrutiu : Well I have checked the flights and for next June on the normal freq, there is nothing direct between MCO and AMS. It seems that once MP pulls pax fli
66 A388 : I heard it on a local morning program where summaries were given by local newspapers here in CUR. The information came from an article in the newspape
67 Vasu : So does that mean KLM aircraft will fly all the flights? Or will there still be some sort of differentiation in branding?
68 A388 : I don't know if this news is actually true but if it is I assume KL will just take over those routes, no differentiation in branding. Maybe they will
69 A388 : I finally got a hold on a hard copy of the local newspaper. It stated that KL will make a decision on where MP will go by September 23rd but internall
70 MauriceB : Though it would make sense, i think its just a summery of rumours.. AF/KL is looking for years to the option of transfering all the cargo ops into Ma
71 A388 : That makes sense regarding the cargo division and please keep us updated on the passenger division developments. A388
72 Post contains links A388 : Latest information on Martinair's faith in below links: Link in Dutch: http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_77054.php Link in English: http://
73 miaintl : Does this mean that KL would now fly to MCO, or would they go to MIA instead? I predict MCO, because they have no AF or other European competition and
74 MAH4546 : You don't quit about the landing fees, do you? KLM likely won't replace Martinair to MCO at all. There is no gap if Martinair leaves - it is Martinai
75 miaintl : So are you saying that MCO-AMS will remain unserved? I wonder of Arke-fly would enter the Florida market,MCO or MIA, in the wake of MP's demise.
76 MAH4546 : I'm saying KLM won't serve it. Another airline? Maybe.
77 MCO2BRS : There is definitely an AMS-MCO market, but as with most flights into MCO they tend to be lower yielding, so the service would go to someone like Arkef
78 fpetrutiu : Any more on this? It almost seems like that even DL could pick up MCO-AMS since they are reactivating a bunch of their 767A's, they could probably spa
79 deltal1011man : Delta has the 767 slack right now to start MCO/MIA-AMS..... Oh and bring 76Qs back into the fleet has nothing to do with the 76U/L/G/T fleets, but De
80 miaintl : But how serious is DL in starting MCO-AMS, would they rather sent the plane to MIA instead, which has a larger European market. What is keeping DL by
81 MauriceB : Why would they wan't to serve MIA-AMS or MCO-AMS? They already offer the same product 3x daily from out of ATL, so it wouldn't really make sense to op
82 miaintl : LH serves all three, MCO, MIA and ATL so why cant KL/DL do the same? Why can LH make all three routes work and KL not?
83 MauriceB : Because LH doesn't have a partnerd hub nearby just like DL has.. KLwil be ably to fill MIA, so ''make it work'' isnt the issue, its more because they
84 Kappel : I always wondered why PY doesn't fly more to Brazil, especially with the ever increasing Brazilian population in Surinam. Perhaps with the new govern
85 miaintl : I dont think high landing fees really matter to a long-haul carrier like KL. High landing fees did not scare UX, UN, and SS away, and those are low-c
86 Post contains images MauriceB : So that DOES make the high landing fees a matter, doesn't it? I understand ur points, although i think u also understand my points.. Sure, UN and SS
87 A388 : LH to MCO? Since when? What are the flight numbers and days of operation? Edit: I see, it's LH465 operating daily with the A330-300: LH 464 FRA MCO A
88 MauriceB : They only fly 3 flights this year between DUS and MCO on 2, 3 ,4 December, with an A330-300. From frankfurt they fly all year long, if i remember cor
89 A388 : Thanks MauriceB, I wasn't aware of that. A388
90 miaintl : But that did not stop those airlines from flying to MIA did it? However even if the landing fees were low KL would still not fly to MIA because MIA a
91 JRadier : No, it makes it a combination of factors. The landing fees are more expensive (as everyone is saying, I don't know myself), but that is only a very s
92 fpetrutiu : It's yearround. In the winter they use A346 and B744's in the summer A333's DUS route will be only 3 days because of a convention in Orlando, but it
93 MAH4546 : No, its not. MIA's landing fees are only high compared to airports in the United States. Compared to large international airports, the fees aren't ou
94 jpiddink : Regarding the MP pax flights: would it be too far fetched to imagine a fourth* derived Transavia Longhaul, in HV colours and branding but operated by
95 MauriceB : But we are talking about US airports, so i don't see ur point of denying it.. weren't we talking about MIA vs ATL/MCO??? Yeah i think so, certainly i
96 MAH4546 : But we are talking about foreign carriers, to which point the fees at MIA are not high. And given the high fares airlines charge for long-distance tr
97 MauriceB : Sure, MIA, but that doens't mean it makes more sense for KLM to serve MIA instead of ATL. At ATL they can offer better connections through the US, an
98 MAH4546 : I'm not saying anything about ATL vs. MIA. All I am saying is that the landing fees are an absolutely negligible expense that is not going to scare a
99 MauriceB : Loads had an average of 78%...atleast thats from a paper i got here from 5/6 years ago. Anyway as say'd and i'm suprised that i have to say it again,
100 MAH4546 : What do loads from 5 to 6 years ago matter? The loads were the lowest among all European carriers at MIA in 2008/09 - rarely above 70%. That's true,
101 Post contains images MauriceB : Sure the loads where lower at the end, just like every other airline 70/75% isn't that bad. Also, a big reason why they stopped flying to MIA is that
102 MAH4546 : Actually, 75% isn't that bad. But it was frequently well below that, average around 55-60%, the lowest at MIA among European airlines and, obviously,
103 MauriceB : I serieosly wasn't aware of that... lol, i really remember them stopping the flight because of AA. Anyway back on studying Cockpit instruments.. have
104 A388 : I also seriously doubt any airline would stop a route because it codeshares with a competing alliance. I also was surprised this happens but it happe
105 MAH4546 : Yes. Martinair did a poor job collecting good marketshare, and also lost a lot of traffic to Air Berlin and Lufthansa from DUS. Even allowing KLM mil
106 miaintl : Most passengers from AMS flying to MIA connect through LHR. BA gets more dutch traffic to MIA than any other airline especially DL or AF. It is also m
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