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Need Some Info  
User currently offlinestephenfaure From Seychelles, joined Jun 2005, 33 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 4 months 7 hours ago) and read 1538 times:

Hi I wanted to know in a 2 class cabin, how many seats you will have to fill in order tot break even. Also the same for the A330-200. Thanks in advance.

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15831 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 7 hours ago) and read 1520 times:

Quoting stephenfaure (Thread starter):
Hi I wanted to know in a 2 class cabin, how many seats you will have to fill in order tot break even. Also the same for the A330-200. Thanks in advance

There is absolutely no way to answer that question in the general case. Those break even points could be drastically different from one airline to another and one route to another.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinestephenfaure From Seychelles, joined Jun 2005, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 7 hours ago) and read 1506 times:

thanks, but in general woulds a 767-200 have to fill more seats than an A330 on the same route?

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26128 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 7 hours ago) and read 1506 times:

Your break even point is when the revenue derived exceeds the cost involved.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2572 posts, RR: 53
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 7 hours ago) and read 1484 times:

How much does the fuel cost this day? More or less than last week? That will change the LF required to break even. So will factors such as landing fees (going to a more expensive airport?), insurance (did your baggage truck accident last month raise your rates?), personnel cost (how many gate agents per flight, pilots on reserve, flight attendants do you have, and what are their salaries compared to the rest of the industry?), lease rates on the aircraft (is it new, or old as dirt?), maintenance contracts (do you pay for power by the hour, or foot the entire bill for the blown turbine disc last month?), maintenance reserve (is a heavy check about due on the plane?), fares (are you the only game in town, or are you fighting tooth & nail for every booking?) and on and on and on...

As they've said above, some airlines could make money with a 40%, others may need 110% just to break even (i.e., they lose money no matter what). There is simply no easy answer to your question. If there was, airlines wouldn't be the highly fraught industry it is today.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5732 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 1432 times:

Quoting stephenfaure (Thread starter):
Hi I wanted to know in a 2 class cabin, how many seats you will have to fill in order tot break even. Also the same for the A330-200. Thanks in advance.

Sorry, but your questions are meaningless.

If airlines looked in any way about the type of aircraft being flown on a route (as opposed to seat count), they would quickly go under.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinestephenfaure From Seychelles, joined Jun 2005, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 1412 times:

the reason i asked the question is because I was told that generally the newer planes have a lower fuel burn per seat and thus will bring operating costs down and maybe even the break even point would be lower. I was curious on how economical the two planes when compared to each other on the same route. I am sure there must be a diffrence as the two planes were launched at diffrent times and technology could make a difference.

User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2572 posts, RR: 53
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 1398 times:

stephen, if you read what we've all written here, you'll see that your question is still impossible to determine. Yes, you may say that the newer aircraft has lower fuel burn costs. If that is only what you want, then ask for that. However that has very little to do with the overall cost of operating the aircraft. A newer aircraft probably has much higher lease/loan costs associated with it, as well as higher insurance rates, and possibly higher training costs if it is a new type to an airline. Plus if it is new to the airline, they have to pay for spare engines & parts, plus training costs for the mechanics.

So yes, the newer type may burn less fuel, but other costs may (or may not) raise the seat mile cost to the company above that of the older type. Every airline is different, and every one will have a different break-even point.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26128 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 1391 times:

And remember Cost is only half of the equation. Revenue is the other half.

You could manage to break even on rather lightly loaded flights if you can manage very high fare premiums, or on the other hand you might need the impossible of well over 100% load factors if fares are very low and cant cover your cost.
So revenue is quite dependent on the mix of volume versus yield an airline manages to generate.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15831 posts, RR: 27
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 1390 times:

Quoting HAL (Reply 7):
So yes, the newer type may burn less fuel, but other costs may (or may not) raise the seat mile cost to the company above that of the older type.

Just look at Allegiant. They fly older planes that use more fuel than more modern airliners and fly them less but still manage to have some of the lowest overall costs in the industry.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
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