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New Zealand Aviation Thread #82  
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16806 times:
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Welcome to the 82nd New Zealand Aviation Thread. In Thread #82 New Zealand Aviation Thread #81 (by PA515 Aug 8 2010 in Civil Aviation)#1 , we learnt and discussed:

- NZs use of the SFO lounge and Star Gold access
- CX changes its AKL-HKG flights - brings back daily B744s
- TT - flight cancellations and business trips
- NZ looks at extra TRG flights
- NZ ends B744 MEL services ffrom Nov 9th
- Significant slack across the entire NZ Link network - 11 ATRs currently doing the work of 7 ATRs
- Upcoming schedule changes for Link fleet later this year
- Possible new NZ long haul route ideas
- PacBlue announces its withdraw from domestic routes - Could DJ be joining Star Alliance as a result?
- John Key announces AKL-Mumbai with B789s
- JetStar announces a further expansion of NZL domestic to replace DJ
- NZ will announce at least one new route before India
- Bird strike at WLG on NZ450
- NZ announces extra AKL-PMR and AKL-NPL
- NZs new B733 and A320 safety video with a rugby theme
- 14x Japan charters for NZ using B763s
- ZK-SUI has departed AKL for its last time on an NZ flight for freighter conversions

That rounds up the #81st thread summary

197 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16806 times:
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Received my new Star gold card today and thought the new design is really excellent. When did the new Gold design come out?

User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8541 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16807 times:
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Quoting 777ER (Reply 1):
Received my new Star gold card today and thought the new design is really excellent. When did the new Gold design come out?

Picture please  



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently onlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5295 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16807 times:

Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
- NZ ends B744 MEL services ffrom Nov 9th

They are back on 1 weekly MEL flight in March. The last few months have seen several 744s doing AKL-MEL even though its a scheduled 772 daily including 2 in the last week, probably more due 772 A checks than PAX loads.


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16804 times:

Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
NZ ends B744 MEL services ffrom Nov 9th

I thought I read that this is not the case, as it continues on into March 2011.


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16794 times:

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 3):
They are back on 1 weekly MEL flight in March. The last few months have seen several 744s doing AKL-MEL even though its a scheduled 772 daily including 2 in the last week, probably more due 772 A checks than PAX loads.

Good to hear.

How are NZ doing on their MEL flights?


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16786 times:

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 209):
NZ 744x2 guesses... purely random thoughts:

OK I'll have a shot... MEL-LAX, a second daily LAX-LHR, AKL-GRU

As much as I would love to see it, MEL-LAX is unlikely, due to its distance, and competitive pressures. Its planned Trans tasman partner is also already on the route, through VA services (soon to be 3 X weekly).

AKL-GRU sounds promosing, but I am not too sure that it would generate high enough yields. There is hardly huge business links between the 2 countries which means it would reply on the tourist and the limited VFR markets.

LAX-LHR, maybe 2 weekly extra, to take them to their slot capacity, might work.


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8541 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16784 times:
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Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 6):
LAX-LHR, maybe 2 weekly extra, to take them to their slot capacity, might work.

I can't see the 744s being put on the same sector that the 77W will be operating on ... it would be a major pr problem to have a couple of rotations a week with the old premium economy up against a daily rotation with the new one - imagine the complaints from pax who booked on the "wrong" flight . ( Although I guess that until the 777-200ERs are updated with the new cabin there will be the same problem for NZ5/6 - does anyone know what the timeframe for the refit of the -200ERs is ? )



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User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16758 times:
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Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 2):

Its the Jean Batten design. Will try and take a photo shortly


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16728 times:
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Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 7):

As far as I know and understand, the B77W is being taken of schuedules and it will be a lucky draw if pax get the new product due to the issues you raised Andrew.

Does anyone know yet the confirmed days the B77W will operate on NZ5/6?

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 6):
LAX-LHR, maybe 2 weekly extra, to take them to their slot capacity, might work.

SFO-LHR to test the waters?


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16724 times:
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PacBlue is the airline whos pilot was sacked after allegations of alcohol and drug abuse.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/4047...ific-Blue-named-as-pilots-employer


User currently offlineGarethW From New Zealand, joined Apr 2006, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16706 times:

In regard to this business of retaining 2 x 744s, I wonder if the plan is to operate VA's MEL-JNB flights 3-4 weekly originating in AKL, to avoid the massive ETOPS diversions suffered by the 77Ws.

I know EDTO will come into play in due course which will level the twin vs quad playing field again, but in the meantime if may allow Mr Borghetti to funnel all 77W resources to LAX.



How good is it?
User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2249 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16680 times:
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Quoting 777ER (Reply 10):
PacBlue is the airline whos pilot was sacked after allegations of alcohol and drug abuse.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/4047...loyer

Glad this came out as it stops the usual commentators accusing Air NZ.

NZ1


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25005 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16643 times:
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I was surprised to read in MFAT that Air NZ and Mexicana Airlines have a code share arrangement for pax traveling between NZ and Mexico - via LAX.

I'm not quite sure why it exists because I would have thought that United/Star Alliance would cover this, at least on the NZ side, but given that Mexicana has suspended flights to LAX, I guess that code share is in abeyance.

But I wonder what happens now. Do they just stick with United/Star Alliance? Or if Mexicana doesn't recover will they maybe create a new code share with, say, AeroMexico?

MFAT also says that the aviation services agreement between NZ and Mexico allows for the introduction of "third country traffic" to be agreed at some later stage.

Given Mexico's good position as a trading partner, and the increasing business/tourist/cultural and education ties between the two countries, I wonder if they are investigating this potential "third country traffic".

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 868 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 16512 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 7):
does anyone know what the timeframe for the refit of the -200ERs is ?

NZ Aviation Thread #69, Reply 38, posted Fri Jan 1 2010:
Quote:
The whole 772 fleet will be upgraded starting Jan 2011. Approx 2 months per aircraft.
NZ1

NZ will only have seven 772's available between Jan 2011 and Mar/May 2012. The upgrades would be about five years and 4 months after each delivery and 25,000 / 30,000 hrs. Would this be a 'D' Check and will the work be done at AKL?

PA515

[Edited 2010-08-21 11:29:09]

User currently offline767er From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 16459 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 9):
Does anyone know yet the confirmed days the B77W will operate on NZ5/6?

13 Jan 2011



Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1633 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 16408 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 6):
Quoting eta unknown (Reply 209):
NZ 744x2 guesses... purely random thoughts:

OK I'll have a shot... MEL-LAX, a second daily LAX-LHR, AKL-GRU

As much as I would love to see it, MEL-LAX is unlikely, due to its distance, and competitive pressures. Its planned Trans tasman partner is also already on the route, through VA services (soon to be 3 X weekly).

AKL-GRU sounds promising, but I am not too sure that it would generate high enough yields. There is hardly huge business links between the 2 countries which means it would reply on the tourist and the limited VFR markets.

LAX-LHR, maybe 2 weekly extra, to take them to their slot capacity, might work.
Quoting PA515 (Reply 14):
NZ will only have seven 772's available between Jan 2011 and Mar/May 2012. The upgrades would be about five years and 4 months after each delivery and 25,000 / 30,000 hrs. Would this be a 'D' Check and will the work be done at AKL?



Posters keep assuming that the two 744s that will be kept for the moment are "extras" in the fleet. With three 77Ws and only seven 77Es available early next year, the retention of two 744s means an available WB fleet of just 12 aircraft (excluding 763s), not enough to run 2x daily to LHR (6 aircraft), daily to LAX and SFO (4 a/c), three-weekly to YVR (1 a/c), daily to NRT (1 a/c) and 5x weekly to China (approx 1 a/c) - total 13 aircraft required. Even if all the 77Es are in service, there's still only just enough capacity.

Remember, it's only a short while ago that NZ had a total WB fleet of 21 aircraft - eight 744s, eight 77Es and five 763s. Although there has been a bit of contraction in flying, the total WB fleet in early 2011 will be just 18 aircraft - two 744s, three 77Ws, eight 77Es and five 763s.

My conclusion: it has to be one of the following: (a) More than two 744s will be kept for the moment, at least; or (b) a route will be dropped to make way for a new route; or (c) frequencies elsewhere on the network will be lowered to release capacity for a new route, or (d) there will be a serious rejigging of the schedule to better utilise daytime downtime in the WB fleet in order to release capacity for a new route; or (e) there is actually no new route planned.

I'm hoping it's (a), as I think that some expansion is called for, given the way NZ's competitors have been pushing the boat out. Or can others see a way of freeing up capacity that I've not thought of?



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1633 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 16398 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 13):
I was surprised to read in MFAT that Air NZ and Mexicana Airlines have a code share arrangement for pax traveling between NZ and Mexico - via LAX.

I'm not quite sure why it exists because I would have thought that United/Star Alliance would cover this, at least on the NZ side, but given that Mexicana has suspended flights to LAX, I guess that code share is in abeyance.

I assume that the code share dates back to the period in 2000-2004 when Mexicana WAS a Star Alliance member, before defecting to One World?



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25005 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 16381 times:
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Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 17):
I assume that the code share dates back to the period in 2000-2004 when Mexicana WAS a Star Alliance member, before defecting to One World?

I dunno. Whatever it was - or is - I thought Mexicana didn't join Oneworld until 2009 and the paper appears to be current at least as at the end of 2009:

http://www.mfat.govt.nz/Countries/Latin-America/Mexico.php

"An air services agreement was signed in 1999. The agreement provides for open capacity for traffic between Mexico and New Zealand and for the introduction of third country traffic if agreed at a later stage. Under the agreement Air New Zealand and Mexicana have entered into code-share services between the two countries via LosAngeles. Upon its expiry in 2003, 2006 and again in March 2009, both governments agreed to extend the agreement for three years."

I assume the last sentence refers to the agreement, not the code share - but it is a bit vague.

mariner

[Edited 2010-08-21 16:53:23]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinemacilree From New Zealand, joined Dec 2006, 243 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 16320 times:

The 1999 media statement announcing the Mexico-New Zealand air services agreement is still available here. This ASA is most unusual in that it is the only one that New Zealand has that has to be regularly renewed.

I read the reference to "third country traffic" as a diplomat trying to avoid the jargon "fifth freedom".

I have Mexicana starting to serve New Zealand in 1999 by code sharing here on Air New Zealand via LAX.



John Macilree
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25005 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 16267 times:
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Quoting macilree (Reply 19):
The 1999 media statement announcing the Mexico-New Zealand air services agreement is still available here. This ASA is most unusual in that it is the only one that New Zealand has that has to be regularly renewed.

Thanks for that. I wasn't surprised by the agreement, only by the code share with Mexicana as a separate issue from Star Alliance. It's something I'd like to see happen more.

Quoting macilree (Reply 19):
I read the reference to "third country traffic" as a diplomat trying to avoid the jargon "fifth freedom".

Yes, I read that, too. It intrigues me, I wonder if they will ever pursue it. It could create quite an interesting situation, but I have a long time frame on these things.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 16254 times:
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Quoting 767er (Reply 15):

So Jan 15th is the first confirmed flight to LAX?

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 16):
Posters keep assuming that the two 744s that will be kept for the moment are "extras" in the fleet. With three 77Ws and only seven 77Es available early next year, the retention of two 744s means an available WB fleet of just 12 aircraft (excluding 763s), not enough to run 2x daily to LHR (6 aircraft), daily to LAX and SFO (4 a/c), three-weekly to YVR (1 a/c), daily to NRT (1 a/c) and 5x weekly to China (approx 1 a/c) - total 13 aircraft required. Even if all the 77Es are in service, there's still only just enough capacity.

Maybe the B744 is being used to operate B772 flights while the upgrade is happening?


User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 868 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 16238 times:

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 16):
My conclusion: it has to be one of the following: (a) More than two 744s will be kept for the moment, at least; or (b) a route will be dropped to make way for a new route; or (c) frequencies elsewhere on the network will be lowered to release capacity for a new route, or (d) there will be a serious rejigging of the schedule to better utilise daytime downtime in the WB fleet in order to release capacity for a new route; or (e) there is actually no new route planned.

I understood two 744's were being retained beyond the end of 2012. There will be four or five in use between when the third 77W is delivered in Mar 2011 and fourth 77W in Nov 2011. The Apr-Oct 2011 schedule shows three 77W and eleven 77E's! Only seven 77E's will be available, so four 744's will have to be used but NZ has chosen to not specify which routes they will be on. That could include the 'new route' as the eleventh '77E' in the schedule is only required from Saturday evening to Sunday morning, enough days available for three Aust-USA flights (TuThSu) for example.

PA515

[Edited 2010-08-21 19:52:16]

User currently offlineRichardJF From New Zealand, joined Mar 2001, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 16220 times:

Start AKL-Mumbai one day and the next day SQ would just drop their prices on AKL & CHC to Indian cities until the NZ foray into India was closed down. Malaysian and Thai would have to follow SQ with their fares.

User currently offlinealangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 16203 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 14):
NZ will only have seven 772's available between Jan 2011 and Mar/May 2012. The upgrades would be about five years and 4 months after each delivery and 25,000 / 30,000 hrs. Would this be a 'D' Check and will the work be done at AKL?

Does this mean the 772s will be going 10abreast in Economy? Howls of protest in the Listener again.


25 IndianicWorld : Thats exactly right. Such moves are not uncommon, even for fellow Star Alliance members. SQ is truely ruthless, and do not see any issue with hurting
26 ZK-NBT : Yes it does! PA515 would be correct. The planned 744 phase out date was always late 2012 now it seems to have been extended for who knows how long. I
27 NZ1 : Upgrade has been pushed back to start immediately after the RWC, late October. Numerous reasons why, which I won't go into on here. All aircraft are
28 777ER : To enable more capacity during the WRC with the current layout??
29 767er : What does WRC mean?
30 NZ1 : Think 777ER meant RWC - which means Rugby World Cup. NZ1
31 777ER : Yes, I meant RWC
32 IndianicWorld : Thanks for that info. NZ's Australian LAX connections must really be taking a hit. If they can maximise demand for pure Trans Tasman pax, along with
33 NZ2 : I got mine a few weeks back and while it is great to see Jean Batten recogised it is a little low key. We can see what it means but probably lost on
34 NZ107 : And do an Air India by chartering various teams through to AKL? Haha. There's no point in not trying to capitalise on any RWC potential earnings. I'd
35 777ER : Wouldn't having a WB on domestic routes be capitalising on extra demand? If NZ sees a need for extra WB capacity on long haul then extra capacity wil
36 koruman : I've just lifted the following from the Australian aviation thread....... Jetfuel wrote: That is one clever move. As a soon to be Cairns resident ther
37 jetfuel : Thanks koruman . I find airlines are becoming less creative with routes and marketing. I see them demanding a daily service to justify a route instead
38 KiwiRob : Is that the card with the propeller on the front, with the writing Jean Batten daughter of the skies? I received this card in October 2008, I had som
39 777ER : Yes thats the card, so the design came out in 08? The writing is clear to read. I had real problems after a while reading my airpoints number on my J
40 koruman : I doubt that there will be the demand, because the tickets are being sold in such a way that you have to buy multiple tickets over a duration of many
41 v2fix : What about extending AKL_PER a couple of times a week to JNB with a 744 - releasing 767 for another new route (more acceptable size for a new route).
42 DavidByrne : . . . aka ECONOMICS too!
43 Post contains links macilree : Do any readers know anything more about Hibiskus Air?
44 DJ748 : Now "thefuture" account has been closed down. Wonder if this person will get the hint this time around.
45 NZ107 : Wow, that sure is interesting.. Charters between AKL/BNE and HKG/MFM - what type of demand exists for this? And surely it's not a direct flight from
46 KiwiRob : Yup got mine in October 08. It wasn't on the first card, it was gold writing, now it's black and easy to see. It's a nice design, I find most lounges
47 Post contains links 777ER : NZ532 (CHC-AKL) was forced to return to CHC this afternoon after another bird strike on the left wing - http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4053...ike-for
48 DavidByrne : Interesting they propose to start on AKL-TBU, AKL-APW and AKL-RAR before taking on Brisbane and China. Also interesting that you have to pay a "one-t
49 ediCHC : Questionable to say the least. I couldn't agree more. It strikes me as the 'membership fee' is a way to boost capital during the typically capital dr
50 alangirvan : Heard it before... back in 1980 when South Pacific wanted to compete against AirNZ, using Viscounts and DC-8s, it was proposed that this would be a m
51 RichardJF : What Rob should do is to agitate for the New Zealand Stock Exchange to change from operating in New Zealand dollars to the US dollar. This would be a
52 NZ107 : What? They pay wages in NZD (what employees would want to have a fluctuating income that is dependent on the NZD/USD?), pay quite a lot of their oper
53 eta unknown : Dare I ask... what did he/she/it do this time??? At least I don't have to hear how wonderful Tiger is...
54 Aeroflot777 : I literally just got home from the airport after flying NZ on SYD-AKL and AKL-LAX. Not only were we treated to this exciting new rugby video on the A
55 RichardJF : Air New Zealand wouldn't need to have its day to day operations done in USD but just its final accounts converted to and share trading done in USD. At
56 mariner : What's the point in having a New Zealand currency at all, then? Just shrug, say it's too hard and tie ourselves to the US dollar. Why the US dollar -
57 PA515 : Thanks for the update. How long for the '6C' Check plus the upgrade per aircraft? PA515
58 NZ6 : What a load of rubbish. When NZ start AKL-HKG-LHR did CX drop fares and force NZ out? When we started AKL-PVG and AKL-SHA did CX, QF, SQ, MH, TG all
59 NZ1 : 8 weeks each. NZ1
60 v2fix : Quick questions about the Japanese charters this Summer : How are the business and space+ sections marketed (business and premium economy ?) The airpo
61 Post contains links mariner : I think congratulations are due to Air NZ on the just announced profit: http://www.voxy.co.nz/business/air-n...ts-despite-turbulent-times/5/60253 "Air
62 DavidByrne : Just noted on the Australian thread that VA is to drop its MEL-JNB services on account of the losses incurred. Might an AKL-MEL-JNB route now be an im
63 aerorobnz : There is a core charter team that will fly with the aircraft - same as the LAS/SIN charters that basically take care of engineering/check in/ground h
64 koruman : David, I've written on the VA thread that VA's stupid mistake was being seduced by the 77W's slightly better economics without grasping that the viabl
65 IndianicWorld : They definately made a mistake when ordering the 77W. Any spin by them against such a comment should be discarded. The airline has struggled to find
66 aerorobnz : ETOPS is soon to be kaput. the twin argument will no longer apply - I don't know the time frame but it will be before the 744s go. However I can rule
67 NZ1 : The above is re-quoted from the Australian Aviation Thread. Not sure where the AKL-JNB rumour has come from. I can tell you right now, that the 2 744
68 kiwiandrew : Indirectly it could be said to have come from you ... since you aren't allowed to tell us what they are being kept for we just have to make wild gues
69 Post contains links 777ER : NZ is saying that the NZL domestic market will actually have more seats after the removal of PacBlue due to NZ adding A320s and JQ adding two more A32
70 ZK-NBT : An additional 3 flights permanently or temporary? 744 AKL-PVG-LHR 3x weekly? Possibly with the annoucement that VA are dropping MEL-JNB? Anyway addit
71 DavidByrne : Oh well, put it down to putting two and two together, and coming up with something that looked a lot like four . . .
72 cchan : I was on NZ86 PEK-AKL on Sunday, and the loads in Y were better than I expected from reading the posts here. I would estimate economy is about 75% ful
73 xiaotung : There is only one man who keeps trashing NZ's Chinese routes here. We all know who he is.
74 koruman : Rob Fyfe has only just been quoted about how flying empty seats is a shortcut to losing money. Cchan reports as surprisingly good a PEK-AKL load of: 1
75 Zkpilot : possibly. When it comes to the JNB market however this is currently QFs most profitable route!
76 Post contains links 777ER : Air NZ has said that an airfare war is about to begin between NZ and JQ once PacBlue leaves as they fight each other for market share after both airli
77 Post contains links PA515 : From the NZ Herald: Air NZ looks to spread wings next year No new routes before the end of 2011. PA515
78 koruman : This really ties in nicely with the parallel SQ SYD-LAX thread. It is my belief that Australia-USA and Australia-South Africa are the most potentiall
79 Post contains links mariner : The first perhaps, but I'm not convinced about the second - nor is Mr. Borghetti at Virgin Blue: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...hetti/story-e
80 aerorobnz : I don't agree with you on a lot of things about NZ but I tend to agree about the 788 as well. I also think that NZ missed a trick by not transferring
81 NZ1 : The 744's will be used on existing routes. That may or may not mean that cities other than LAX/HKG/LHR are included. Won't say anymore at present. NZ
82 DavidByrne : OK, that, coupled with Fyfe's announcement yesterday that new routes won't happen until late 2011 at the earliest, narrows it down. I love to specula
83 PA515 : The fourth 77W is due in Nov 2011 and the fifth in Feb 2012. The two 744's are being retained beyond the end of 2012 and Air NZ only owns NBV so the
84 sunrisevalley : If I understand the timing correctly the tally would be 5-77W's, 2-744's, 8- 772 and 5 763s.
85 777ER : With Mexicana being forever grounded from 12pm Saturday Mexico time, when will NZ change its MEX codeshares to UA/CO? Maybe NZ could start a AKL-MEX-O
86 DavidByrne : Yes, from PA515's info above re the arrival of 77Ws #4 and #5 in late 2011-early 2012, this would appear to be the fleet composition from March 2012.
87 koruman : Funnily enough, China might not be a bad option for the 744, but only if there is a significant reduction in the premium seat numbers. The 77E fleet
88 aerorobnz : NBS & SUI are gone. This leaves us with 6.
89 NZ1 : SUI departed week before last, now at 6. Next one goes mid next year. NZ1
90 777ER : Guess we can enjoy grab a seat and $1 reserve sella sale fares to PVG and PEK for the economy bed, Y+ and J
91 NZ6 : I love reading the ideas that come up so here is some bait.... Will the 744 be used on currunt routes as NZ1 suggests but will it really be freeing u
92 anstar : They also mentioned they will fly BNE-AUH 3 weekly from 2012 so I guess that would be with the soon to be ordered 6th 77W option.
93 RichardJF : If NZ maintains the idea of basing everything around AKL what they should do is AKL-CUN-EWR as well as SYD-AKL-PTY. Going to CO's NY hub probably mak
94 777ER : I'm going to say the B744 will be used on AKL-YVR-AKL to enable the B772 to start a new route. AKL-South America/MEX-ORD/JFK/EWR
95 NZ1 : Now you're starting to read between the lines. NZ1
96 PA515 : Would this be ZK-SUH which had it's lease extended for five years from May 2006? PA515
97 NZ1 : Not likely. SUH is most probably the one that will stay on with NBV. NZ1
98 koruman : That was my point too: the reconfigured 77E fleet is optimised for much higher yielding passenger routes than China and Japan ones. So the 744 could b
99 RichardJF : In a more competitive environment I can't see LHR being realistic for NZ. You need to run HKG-LHR 3 times a day to be a viable competitor.
100 PA515 : And a lower lease rate than SUJ or NBW. PA515
101 RichardJF : If NZ is going to be in Europe you have to be there 4-5 times a day.
102 v2fix : A DAY !
103 NZ6 : No I'm aware of what it is you are talking about. I'm trying to think of a hint that will open up realistic discussion Temporary. Alongside a few new
104 RichardJF : NZ makes money by being the only airline to fly somebody from Napier to Dunedin but needs to apply that principal to long haul routes. In other words
105 macilree : Just to note that this weekend sees Cargolux (CV), the last European airline operating to New Zealand, cease scheduled service through AKL. Air cargo
106 777ER : Any chance those temporary new routes could stay after the RWC if the demand is there?
107 Post contains links macilree : Interesting presentations from Richard Thomson, GM Commercial, Long Haul at Air New Zealand and Gordon Bevan from ASM to the Inbound Tour Operators Co
108 DavidByrne : It was only a couple of days ago that Fyfe was reported as saying that there would be no new routes until late 2011 at the earliest.
109 777ER : NZ will need all their fleet for the RWC due to new routes (obviously from rugby countrys), so clearly no new routes will be launched till late 2011
110 koruman : My take home messages from this? 1. India is grievously under-served at present, and the high costs and inconvenient travel times are reducing demand
111 DavidByrne : I read that - it's fascinating. I can see the numbers used being quoted from here on in on this thread! Yes, I can see that's a limiting factor. Actu
112 RichardJF : In its TV advertising down here Jetstar is promoting AKL-CHC and CHC-ZQN discount fares but not strangely not WLG-AKL and WLG-CHC.
113 sunrisevalley : A good thought David. To broaden the scope, how about pre-empting JQ by a Y only 744 running,say AKL-SYD-LAX-MAN Use MAN , why waste a LHR slot . Giv
114 koruman : Richard, you are confounding two distinct issues here. Frequency is only really important for long-haul services with predominantly O+D traffic along
115 alangirvan : You are nearly describing Backpacker Express, an Australian airline which was proposed a few years ago. With 2 744, they planned to operate Melbourne
116 koruman : I know I wear a lot of flak for my views on the PVG and PEK markets, but anyone knowing my affinity for Hong Kong will understand that my antipathy i
117 alangirvan : In the context of looking forward to the Rugby World Cup and last weeks announcement of the tie up between Etihad and the Virgin Group, I wonder if J
118 koruman : Alan, those of us in Australia feel elbowed out of the World cup by the requirement that purchasers of knockout matches also buy group stage tickets,
119 alangirvan : Look, I am hoping the RWC will not all be a joke. I remember in 1995 in Canberra during the big Rugby League split up they were giving away tickets to
120 mariner : I'm just really not sure what you hope to achieve by it. mariner
121 gemuser : A bit too rough, mate. The SYD curfew strikes again. You have to be out of SYD by 22:45, which means into SYD by about 21:15, at the latest, which me
122 aerorobnz : I heard a rumour today that NZ 763s will go back to a 24/206 configuration longhaul. No idea on time frame though.
123 777ER : Interesting rumor, wonder if any other NZ insiders have heard the same rumor. Wonder what NZ are planning for the B763s if true
124 Post contains images IndianicWorld : Hogan is from Melbourne. Hardly a rugby Union, or League for that matter, hotspot
125 NZ1 : Still just rumour at this stage. NZ1
126 ZKOKA : Not a Rumour as far as Im aware, This quote from GM Cabin Crew Longhaul B767 and A320 aircraft Space+ is being removed from these aircraft By removing
127 Post contains links DavidByrne : Increases in frequency on Air NZ announced between TRG-CHC (11 flights a week total) and IVC-WLG (twice daily on weekdays), plus also a new Sunday NPL
128 Post contains links CHCalfonzo : NZ have announced changes to regional services. Air NZ adds 9500 domestic seats a week In short: WLG-IVC 12pw CHC-TRG 11pw CHC-NPL 6pw AKL/CHC-PMR mor
129 DavidByrne : Just checked the timings (in the booking engine, at least - the main schedules are not yet loaded) for the new NZ domestic flights. The net effect aft
130 RichardJF : You've got to be a bit wary of Borgetti's real aims. Not burying Virgin Australia seemed an odd decision but what will likely happen is that they'll o
131 Post contains links mariner : I'm not so sure that he will do that, at least in the near future. It's a long wait for either the 787 and the A350 and in the meantime he can pick u
132 NZ1 : A320's are being reconfigured to an all economy 171 seat layout starting October. 767s are keeping Business, but the exact config was/is still under
133 777ER : I can see many angry customers as a result of loosing space + as the extra space certainly made the trip nicer - especially on HNL-AKL Those new serv
134 767er : Or LAX -RAR and VV
135 Post contains links 777ER : Any long haul flight benefits from extra space Wellington Police arrested a 54 year old lady yesterday at WLG after arriving on a flight at 2.30pm fr
136 NZ747 : What's the latest with the proposed new Air NZ livery change? If it has been shelved, why?
137 NZ1 : Shelved at this stage due to cost. NZ1
138 NZ107 : I really didn't see the point of pulling the Pacific Wave off the planes because the livery is just so boring and now the new livery is shelved.. Oh
139 767er : well done indeed NZ1 - welcome aboard as moderator
140 NZ747 : If I recall, the then intended livery change was announced in 2006. Since then we have seen a fair few new aircraft to the air nz fleet such as the Q
141 NZ1 : Sadly no. I'll leave it for someone else if they want to do that. It may get resurrected again at some point, who knows. Thanks - Looking forward to
142 Post contains links 777ER : New Zealands ATW airline of the year continues its winning run with yesterdays announcement that NZ is the countrys most reputable business and this n
143 aerorobnz : I think that inflight food on longhaul is the 'weakest' (relatively speaking) part of the experience. This is why the new menu is being introduced on
144 777ER : What airline and routes is this B757 operating?
145 777ER : After a quick check on the a.net database, it will be sad to no longer see the DHL B727 in AKL, but then again it will be nice to see a DHL B757 freq
146 aerorobnz : It operates AKL-SYD (don't know frequency) but it leaves 2000 most days. the 727 maybe kept for the pacific though...?? It has been to the islands a f
147 Post contains links NZ1 : Another award for Air NZ. This time from Conde Nast. http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/4087376/Air-NZ-wins-coveted-award NZ1
148 777ER : Check reply 142, but yip, pretty good for NZ. Wonder what the next award will be?
149 NZ1 : Seems to have been a run of them lately. Will be interesting to see if the new 773 offering will keep us there next year. NZ1
150 ZKSUJ : Just speaking of the new offering. How much space will pax loose in Y from the 3-4-3 config compared to te 3-3-3?
151 Haggis73 : Still 4 nights a week Monday-Thursday, departing 30 mins earlier at 1930 plus they are now back to running there Saturday morning service departing a
152 LondonCity : It's not just aisle space and legroom they will lose ... consider that more pax per aisle spells less available storage space in the overhead lockers
153 NZ1 : Don't have the exact figures on me at present, but remember that the new seat design will help alleviate this a little also. NZ1
154 kiwiandrew : While I am not a huge fan of the change from 3-3-3 to 3-4-3 I don't see how it equates to a loss of legroom ? Are they also reducing the seat pitch ?
155 NZ6 : But IF everyone took one piece at 7ks there wouldn't be an issue. The problem is people are still insistent on taking a small suit case on board. Was
156 NZ107 : A downgrade compared with the 744, yes. IIRC it'll be 32".
157 NZdsgnr : thought it was at least 33"
158 aerokiwi : Well they certainly will be now that NZ has reduced the inclusive luggage allowance on North American flights from 32 to 23kg. Hardly an incentive to
159 NZ107 : The website says between 32 and 33". But the 744 is 34" so it is still a downgrade of sorts, depending on what you're comparing it with. Not that it
160 777ER : Then NZ better change their carry on requirments because your allowed as quoted from the NZ web-site In addition to your allowance, you may also carr
161 Post contains images aerorobnz : You'll like the new methods of enforcing cabin baggage limitations come november then...
162 NZ6 : I never said these were not acceptable, in fact I said a few of these things were okay, a coat is hardly taking up room like the small suit case I qu
163 kiwiandrew : Another reason to be grateful for inbound duty free purchases , so much more civilized ... ( as well as safer because of no flammable liquids in the
164 NZ2 : Hi all, I had a day in MEL last Tuesday and was coming home on NZ126, an A320. During cruise I stopped the movie becasue I became aware of a slight po
165 RichardJF : I was interested to note NZ at LAS on a charter. AKL-LAS with a Virgin Atlantic c/s to London is a highly competitive move for NZ.
166 koruman : Is it? Why? The LAX-LHR sector is pretty much the jewel in the crown at the moment: a high-yielding sector with a relatively low cost-base, linking t
167 RichardJF : And better still connecting to the new MAN-LAS route.
168 anstar : The Virgin Atlantic LAS routes are operated in a leaisure config - only 12 UPPER seats.... hardly enough for a AKL-LAS-LHR service. Besides, The VS f
169 ZKSUJ : I hear the engine change on quite a few flights I've had particularily on the airbus. The most noticable was on an MH330 last year. Would'nt think mu
170 aerorobnz : AKL-LAS is commercially what is known as a WOFT.... I would hope NZ would never bother while there are many more potentially profitable routes out th
171 PA515 : News on the former Air NZ 763's that went to FlyGlobespan. c/n 26264 L/N 555 (ZK-NCH, G-CEFG) now N411LF of ILFC. (Still stored at MIA) c/n 29388 L/N
172 macilree : Searching for news on the status of CHC airport after the rather large earthquake
173 CHCalfonzo : No flights have are going anywhere at the moment, I believe they are checking the runway for damage. NZ241 from RAR went to AKL.
174 mariner : I'm surely not advocating that Air NZ fly regularly to LAS, but I wonder if that is true of many of the great resort destinations? Take out the non-r
175 NZ107 : A few bumps on the runway, closed until 10am? That's as much as I've heard.
176 Mr AirNZ : Christchurch now closed till later in the day (here is the NOTAM) B3534/10 FROM: 03 SEP 2010 21:04 TO: 04 SEP 2010 01:00 EST AD CLSD DUE EARTHQUAKE
177 Post contains links 777ER : I've started a seperate thread for CHC CHC Airport (New Zealand) Closed Due To 7.4 Quake (by 777ER Sep 3 2010 in Civil Aviation) Maybe its best to dis
178 NZ107 : I don't particularly think that there's a big deal about the airport.. Nothing that can't be contained within this thread.
179 Post contains links darenw : Three people have died in a plane crash on Fox Glacier http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/thre...in-fox-glacier-plane-crash-3760205
180 aerohottie : Latest report is nine fatalities... appears the aircraft burst into flames shortly after take-off.
181 CHCalfonzo : The death toll has risen to 9 confirmed, 1 survivor. The aircraft involved was an NZ Aerospace FU24 belonging to Skydive New Zealand. What a terrible
182 Pyrex : Very sad. A year and a half ago I very, very nearly took that flight. The reason I ended up not going is because I wouldn't really like to do skydivi
183 sunrisevalley : I am aware that NZ lease the engines for their 777E's on a power by the hour basis, probably from RR. What arrangement have they entered into for the
184 Post contains links DavidByrne : Press reports (unsubstantiated) quoted on the Australian thread that QF will drop SYD-EZE in favour of SYD-GRU, though sceptics are pointing out that
185 IndianicWorld : I can not see it TBH. The length of flight is much longer, and would probaly not see large enough premiums in yield to justify it. If QF could add a
186 RichardJF : AR is probably just posturing to get NZ to take over the route and to be able to code share it. But NZ should go further than EZE imo.
187 RichardJF : Could QF run SYD-GRU with the A380?. With LAN so dominant things are certainly running Oneworlds way in South America.
188 IndianicWorld : With the planned LA/JJ merger, maybe there are plans to move pout of OW. We do not know that situation. It might affect the decisions taken.
189 RichardJF : Maybe recent moves in North America will effect what happens in South America.
190 aerorobnz : It absolutely will affect the situation. If LA stay with OW QF will likely try for a direct service to Brazil, If they go to Star then NZ will want t
191 ZK-NBT : Interesting always said that AKL/SYD is ARs most profitable route. I don't see them dropping AKL. They did load SYD-EZE non stop with a A342 when QF a
192 sunrisevalley : what is the relative attraction GRU versus EZE so far as NZL is concerned?
193 koruman : Leaks have emerged from Qantas this week confirming that Buenos Aires is a loss-making destination: the Australian thread reported that: "QANTAS is c
194 NZ107 : GRU has (at this present time) a Star Alliance base. The next football World Cup is in Brazil. Brazil's economy is growing pretty fast. Air NZ have i
195 sunrisevalley : That says an awful lot! I know it is a long way around but how about SYD-PPT-GRU or is that just too much for the SYD-GRU passenger to take!
196 RichardJF : QF is sort of saying to LAN if you go across to star then we'll start flying to GRU anyway undermining LAN's SCL-AKL-SYD. For NZ they should do AKL-GI
197 Post contains links NZ1 : Due to the size of this thread, please continue discussion here: New Zealand Aviation Thread #83 (by NZ1 Sep 8 2010 in Civil Aviation) NZ1
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