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How Do Baseball Charters Work?  
User currently offlinec5load From United States of America, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 917 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8041 times:

I really didn't know which forum to post this in so if I am not in the right place, mods please put me in the right spot. Anyways, a couple of weeks ago I went to a White Sox game here in Baltimore, and got to thinking, how do charters for baseball teams work? When a team has away games they always have a series of either three or four games in that city. So do teams contract with a certain airline (in this case, United) to have a plane sit in that city for three or four days? That would seem like an exhorbitant amount of money for an aircraft to sit on the tarmac, not to mention the crew being in hotels. Or do they simply charter one out there, then the plane leaves and resumes normal service? But in that case, where is the guarantee that the plane will be back to pick them up on time for them to leave? It seems each case has its ups and downs.


"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8018 times:

The plane doesn't sit while the team is on the road. They get dropped off and the a/c leaves and is put back in the system. Contractually, there are clauses about an a/c being late but it will be there, on time waiting for the players. But there have been news stories of an a/c arriving late to pick up a team due to weather, MTC, etc.


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinesunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8014 times:

I can tell you from what I have learned with college football charters this is what happens. A contract is made between college or team and airline. Airline tells team it will cost say 200K. Airline sends plane to nearest airport that can handle say a 737-800. Plane ferries in just with the crew. Flies team to destination drops off team. Plane leaves returns to hub or to another city to pick up another team. 2 days later the airline sends same or another plane to pick up team and return them home or to next city.

With NFL teams sometimes the plane will sit the whole time 24 to 48 hrs.



Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5050 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7981 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 1):
The plane doesn't sit while the team is on the road. They get dropped off and the a/c leaves and is put back in the system. Contractually, there are clauses about an a/c being late but it will be there, on time waiting for the players. But there have been news stories of an a/c arriving late to pick up a team due to weather, MTC, etc.

It really depends. Sometimes the aircraft stays with the team in the city they are playing in. Some teams have their own aircraft. The Rangers used a 727, and the plane stayed 3-4 days at a time when playing in SEA. DL did several team charters, and what you state above is the case. They would drop em off, and pick em up.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2699 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7798 times:

There's a similar thread in the Tech/Ops section from a couple days ago. It should answer most of your questions:

Airport Selection For Charters (by Delta2058 Aug 19 2010 in Tech Ops)

 


User currently offlinerobo65 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7627 times:

Charters all work a little different depending on sport and how many days the team will be in any particular city. In your scenario with the Orioles when they leave BWI for away games their charter will either be sent in as an extra section where they will sell seats from a hub IAH/CLE/EWR and when aircraft arrives it will turn around and go as charter or it may be ferried in with just crew to BWI. When the aircraft gets to their destination it will then most likely ferry back to a hub or another city that needs that aircraft to make up a regular flight the same day or even next morning. Most other charters work the same way, I have rarely seen where an aircraft will sit and wait for team, it has happened but not often.

Sometimes you will even see for example the aircraft droppping off the Orioles where ever they are playing, that aircraft may even go to another city and pick up another charter for another organization or team. I hope this helps.


User currently offlines4popo From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7403 times:

Doesn't it make financial sense for a baseball team to own their own aircraft when they travel so much during the season? Does anyone have an estimate for an average trip cost?

User currently offlineAirNovaBAe146 From Canada, joined Jun 2008, 362 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7375 times:

Anybody have experience working with the DL NBA contract, or AC Jetz, which does a lot of NHL work.

I know each of those operators has a sub-fleet of Airbus 320 series aircraft (not sure if its 320 or 319s) that they configure with business class seating. I want to say Delta (originally a NW contract) has around 7 Airbuses configured like so. Not sure how many aircraft AC has committed to Jetz during the fall/winter sports season. However in both cases, during the spring and summer months, when NHL and NBA seasons are in the playoffs or on summer break, the aircraft go back to their normal configuration.

With the DL and AC NBA and NHL contracts, depending on the timing/logistics, they will either wait for the team they just dropped off to be done and needing to move on to the next destination, or leapfrog to another city where some other team needs transportations. Its quite the puzzle, the most efficient way to fit it all together, and also minimizing empty repo legs on these charter configured aircraft. Occasionally, especially with AC Jetz, you will catch these aircraft doing airline legs throughout the system - these are normally equipment swapped just to limit the empty legs.


User currently offlineandyinpit From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 320 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5233 times:

Quoting s4popo (Reply 6):
Doesn't it make financial sense for a baseball team to own their own aircraft when they travel so much during the season? Does anyone have an estimate for an average trip cost?

The Texas Rangers do. It just flew in to BWI the other night. It's a 757 with their logo on the tail. Kind of an off-white/gray body to it. Don't quote me on this, but I believe the reg. is N757SS. And boy let me tell you those pilots screwed up at least 3 instructions from ATC  


User currently offlineC767P From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4994 times:

To pick up a team some aircraft arrive to that city as a live revenue flight a few hours before they are to pick up the team.

Often times if DL has ferried an empty plane out of SAN to LAX or LAS to return it to revenue service. I would guess they can add the extra capacity onto either of those cities easier compared to out of SAN.

The Rockies use a private 727, N17773. The Tigers used to use a private DC-9-51, N682RW, but now they fly with DL as DL8894.


User currently offlinerobo65 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4746 times:

Quoting andyinpit (Reply 8):
Quoting s4popo (Reply 6):



[quote=andyinpit,reply=8] From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted Sun Aug 22 2010 17:57:29 your local time (5 hours 57 minutes 38 secs ago) and read 485 times:


Quoting s4popo (Reply 6):
Doesn't it make financial sense for a baseball team to own their own aircraft when they travel so much during the season? Does anyone have an estimate for an average trip cost?

The Texas Rangers do. It just flew in to BWI the other night. It's a 757 with their logo on the tail. Kind of an off-white/gray body to it. Don't quote me on this, but I believe the reg. is N757SS. And boy let me tell you those pilots screwed up at least 3 instructions from ATC

The costs associated with owning or leasing your own jet for roughly 6 months a year is not worth it. As far as the Rangers owning their own jet..... just maybe that was one of the factors that contributed to them filing bankruptcy and having to sell the team.


User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4724 times:

Quoting C767P (Reply 9):
The Tigers used to use a private DC-9-51, N682RW, but now they fly with DL as DL8894.

So the Tigers don't use that DC95 anymore that they used to share with the Red Wings??

FX1816


User currently offlineC767P From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4545 times:

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 11):
So the Tigers don't use that DC95 anymore that they used to share with the Red Wings??

Nope, and I don’t believe the Red Wings use it either.


User currently offline71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3081 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4485 times:

Quoting s4popo (Reply 6):
Does anyone have an estimate for an average trip cost?

Seems to be a guarded secret but there was a website that had some charter rates and it showed 737/320 sized planes in the $6-8,000 per hour range and you must pay for all hours from where the plane must ferry from and return to after your charter is complete. Not sure how old those figures were so could be more now with the price of fuel. Plus have to also add in catering costs, landing fees and possible overnight crew fees if the plane remains with you overnight.

Quoting AirNovaBAe146 (Reply 7):
I want to say Delta (originally a NW contract) has around 7 Airbuses configured like so. Not sure how many aircraft AC has committed to Jetz during the fall/winter sports season. However in both cases, during the spring and summer months, when NHL and NBA seasons are in the playoffs or on summer break, the aircraft go back to their normal configuration.


Five of the seven DL 319 VIP's get converted back to 124 seats after the NBA season ends. Two of them stay converted year round, N354NB and N362NB I believe. The other five will get converted back to 54 seats before the NBA season starts.



The good old days: Delta L-1011s at MSY
User currently offlineYYZRWY23 From Canada, joined Aug 2009, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4461 times:

Quoting AirNovaBAe146 (Reply 7):
Not sure how many aircraft AC has committed to Jetz

AC has five dedicated A320 aircraft to the Jetz fleet.

Quoting AirNovaBAe146 (Reply 7):
the aircraft go back to their normal configuration.

I don't think AC does that. I am fairly sure the aircraft stay in the configuration, which is why some people will strike it lucky when a flight gets subbed with one of these aircraft and you get a business class seat.

YYZRWY23



If you don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
User currently offlinerunner13 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4182 times:

Quoting robo65 (Reply 10):
The costs associated with owning or leasing your own jet for roughly 6 months a year is not worth it. As far as the Rangers owning their own jet..... just maybe that was one of the factors that contributed to them filing bankruptcy and having to sell the team.

I could be wrong but I think the Rangers share their plane with the Mavericks. And that was not a reason for the teams bankruptcy. The previous owner was horrible, he was trying to make a quick buck, didn't care about the team or the fans, sold 5000 sq ft of parking to siemens then raised the parking price. Is just one of the messed up things he did. Now they are so much better with Ryan and his group, they care about the team and the fans and it's showing, the two magical words have been brought up several times lately for the first time ever.


User currently offlineN92R03 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4092 times:

Didn't the Mavericks use to fly on Mark Cuban's 757?

User currently offlineytib From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 574 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4043 times:

In the case of the White Sox they use United. In the past year or so UA has done a better job with the utilization of the aircraft and will fly a revenue flight into the airport or nearest airport then pick up the team. At the next city they will drop them off and in most instances have the plane go as a revenue flight the next day since arrivals are usually quite late.

In Chicago they always depart out of MDW so the aircraft is always brought over from ORD. For most of the cities they frequent during the year they have mainline service. Alternates are used in a few cities Seattle (BFI), Cleveland (BKF), Tampa (PIE) so you will always see a short flight to the main airport. At Detroit the team stays outside of downtown so they fly into PTK and out of DTW, similar for Oakland into SFO and out of OAK.

White Sox: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL9904

For the most part these are the positioning flights, however every so often something else gets into the mix.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL9974
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL9984

The Rockies charter was mentioned and that is usually used by the team but you will sometimes see that stops are needed on returns from the east coast. I believe the Chicago Blackhawks also use this aircraft during their season so in the playoffs the Hawks had to find another option. Likewise there are times when the Rockies will use Frontier if their 727 is not available.

On charter flights with United the travelers do get mileage credit, so it is not uncommon for them to have Premier Exec or 1k status by the end of the season.


User currently offlinestevemchey From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 369 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3971 times:

Quoting runner13 (Reply 15):
I could be wrong but I think the Rangers share their plane with the Mavericks.

Not the Mavericks, but the Dallas Stars... they share N757SS (a former Air Europa 757), which is painted with the Stars logo on one side and the Rangers logo on the other:


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User currently offline71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3081 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3939 times:

Quoting N92R03 (Reply 16):
Didn't the Mavericks use to fly on Mark Cuban's 757?

Still do as far as I know, N801DM

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Photo © Dennis Muller




The good old days: Delta L-1011s at MSY
User currently offlineburnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7545 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3696 times:

Quoting AirNovaBAe146 (Reply 7):
I know each of those operators has a sub-fleet of Airbus 320 series aircraft (not sure if its 320 or 319s) that they configure with business class seating. I want to say Delta (originally a NW contract) has around 7 Airbuses configured like so. Not sure how many aircraft AC has committed to Jetz during the fall/winter sports season. However in both cases, during the spring and summer months, when NHL and NBA seasons are in the playoffs or on summer break, the aircraft go back to their normal configuration.

Correct, DL's 319 fleet is always moving though during the NBA season, often times the plane will come in and leave, sometimes it does stay but with as busy as the NBA schedule is, its usually gone shortly after.

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 11):
So the Tigers don't use that DC95 anymore that they used to share with the Red Wings??

Neither team does, both the redwings and tigers will be on DL.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15739 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3673 times:

Quoting ytib (Reply 17):
I believe the Chicago Blackhawks also use this aircraft during their season so in the playoffs the Hawks had to find another option.

They used a Swift Air 737-400 I think.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3601 times:

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 20):
Quoting FX1816 (Reply 11):
So the Tigers don't use that DC95 anymore that they used to share with the Red Wings??

Neither team does, both the redwings and tigers will be on DL.

What has become of that DC95??

FX1816


User currently onlineNorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1832 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3568 times:
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I've never gotten a concrete answer to this question, but, i'm always curious how seating works on a 2 class aircraft when it comes to a charter, i.e. do the starters and coaches sit in first with everyone else in coach? I'm also curious how the service works, is it all coach service or do those in f get f service?


Why are people so against low yields?! If lower yields means more people can travel abroad, i'm all for it
User currently offlinea/c dxer From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 415 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3537 times:

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 23):
I've never gotten a concrete answer to this question, but, i'm always curious how seating works on a 2 class aircraft when it comes to a charter, i.e. do the starters and coaches sit in first with everyone else in coach? I'm also curious how the service works, is it all coach service or do those in f get f service?

Coaches usually sit up front and then the players sit in the back. As far as service they get special catering per the trainers. From what I heard it is a light snack after boarding, the main meal then dessert.


User currently offlineytib From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 574 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3519 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 21):
They used a Swift Air 737-400 I think.

That's correct, I recall seeing that they switched to Swift Air.


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