Quote: RIYADH: Saudi Arabian Airlines (Saudia), which has signed an SR12-billion deal for the purchase of 12 super-efficient Boeing 787 airplanes to modernize its fleet, will reduce its fuel costs by 20 percent as the new-version aircraft are highly fuel-efficient.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
Lumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 21 Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 9163 times:
I checked Boeing's orders and there's no Saudi order for the 787 listed. Perhaps this is the consummation of the actual sale?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
Lumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 21 Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 9106 times:
Yes, I remember that thread. Note HiJazzey's post at the end.
Quote: Interesting. Leasing the planes from ALAFCO would give SV earlier delivery slots (2010?). But I think they'd want more than 12 788s.
If they do go ahead with this, I expect they'll also order some more from Boeing directly. I think in the region of 6 + 25 options.
Considering that, however, there will still be a net reduction in widebody capacity as the 747 classics leave the fleet. So the order may be bigger.
Perhaps we'll get some clarification this week?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
PM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6753 posts, RR: 65 Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 9018 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 1): This on top of the dozen 77Ws they are taking. Some nice deals for Boeing.
Strictly speaking, of course, Saudi Arabian haven't actually ordered either. (The last Boeing planes Saudi Arabian ordered were in June 1995.)
Quoting Lumberton (Reply 3): I checked Boeing's orders and there's no Saudi order for the 787 listed. Perhaps this is the consummation of the actual sale?
Read the source you provided.
"Jazzar, who gave an overview of the aviation industry with special reference to the market outlook of the Middle East, said that Saudia had ordered the Boeing 787 through a Kuwaiti leasing company and hence he cannot provide specifics of the deal."
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26961 posts, RR: 83 Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 9007 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 6): Strictly speaking, of course, Saudi Arabian haven't actually ordered either. (The last Boeing planes Saudi Arabian ordered were in June 1995.)
Fair enough, but the lessors are taking new frames to lease to SV, not pulling from "available stock" parked in a desert, so it's still new metal (ansd CFRP) rolling out of PAE.
PM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6753 posts, RR: 65 Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8949 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 7): Fair enough, but the lessors are taking new frames to lease to SV, not pulling from "available stock" parked in a desert, so it's still new metal (ansd CFRP) rolling out of PAE.
I'm not entirely sure what point you are making. But if you are suggesting that this is 'new' business for Boeing, one might as easily observe that these are orders already booked and counted.
Anyway, who said that SV were leasing their 777-300s? I thought that was the unidentified order from April?
PM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6753 posts, RR: 65 Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8663 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 9): Well that is what I thought, but then you said they hadn't ordered either.
Nor have they. Check the Boeing O&D pages. But I thought that the April order = SV was an open secret. Hell, many people counted it in their running total of Farnborough orders till someone noted that it hadn't actually been announced.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26961 posts, RR: 83 Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 8530 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 10): Nor have they. Check the Boeing O&D pages. But I thought that the April order = SV was an open secret.
It did match up with the SV document.that noted the delivery schedule for 12 777-300ERs, so maybe they're waiting until later in the year / early next year to formally announce they are behind the order.
The777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6115 posts, RR: 56 Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8173 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 11): It did match up with the SV document.that noted the delivery schedule for 12 777-300ERs, so maybe they're waiting until later in the year / early next year to formally announce they are behind the order.
It's a bit odd that they haven't announced the 77W order yet since it's on their website that they have 12 77Ws on order. What are they waiting for ?
I guess they are getting more 787s now; the original lease from ALAFC was for 6 or 8 787s, not 12.
The777Man
Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....GA, T5, CI and LX 777s
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26961 posts, RR: 83 Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8053 times:
Quoting EPA001 (Reply 13): Which type of the B787 have they ordered? The -8 or the -9?
Wiki says they have the 787-9. ALAFCO ordered the 787-8.
Lumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 21 Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7344 times:
Lumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 21 Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6986 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 6): Read the source you provided.
"Jazzar, who gave an overview of the aviation industry with special reference to the market outlook of the Middle East, said that Saudia had ordered the Boeing 787 through a Kuwaiti leasing company and hence he cannot provide specifics of the deal."
This appears to be old news.
Reading further it goes on to say:
Quote: On the changing aviation landscape, and when the much anticipated Dreamliner Boeing 787 will take to the air, he said: "I am happy to see that Saudia will be one of the owners of the most advanced aircraft."
"Owner" vs "lessor". Is this an error on the part of the writer? Is Mr. Jazzar confused as to what the difference is between a lessor and an owner? Or is Saudia buying the aircraft from ALAFCO, or another lessor?
[Edited 2010-08-22 11:37:30]
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
HiJazzey From Saudi Arabia, joined Sep 2005, 788 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 2 days ago) and read 6617 times:
Lumberton,
Many countries outside the US including Saudi use IFRS, and under those rules a lease financed aircraft does go on your balance sheet. So you do essentilly own it.
----
On the main topic...
From what I understand. SV agreed with ALAFCO to take 12 B788s, however that was before more recent orders and it was rumoured that they had since gone cold on the deal.
The recent comment could either be interpreted that they've firmed up their commitment with ALAFCO, or that they have signed a new deal.
Lumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 21 Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 2 days ago) and read 6208 times:
Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 17): The recent comment could either be interpreted that they've firmed up their commitment with ALAFCO, or that they have signed a new deal.
Thanks, HiJazzey. Is there anything in the Saudi media that would shed some light on this?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
Hamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2669 posts, RR: 59 Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3998 times:
Here's a breakdown from what I remember about Saudi Arabian's 787 deal:
ALAFCO announced the transaction on their website in 2008(?). According to that announcement, Saudi Arabian will be leasing 4 of the 22 frames ALAFCO has on order with Boeing. In addition, they will be buying another 8 frames from ALAFCO (Boeing to ALAFCO to Saudi). According to the release, all 12 frames will be -9's. As others have pointed out, ALAFCO currently only has the -8 on order. However, this is certainly no obstacle as it is fairly simple and easy to swap models.
As also previously pointed out, there have been reports that SV has soured on this deal. So it'd be interesting to know if this rehash is a reconfirmation of the deal. There is also speculation that the UFO order for 15 -9's is for SV (in other words, SV buying directly from Boeing). At this point, it's anyone's guess (except SV) what exactly is going on. If I was a betting man, tho, I'd bet on SV getting quite a few 787-9's.
And just FYI, ALAFCO is also leasing another 6 787-8's to Oman Air.
babybus From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3537 posts, RR: 6 Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3240 times:
In such a deal the SV money goes to Kuwait and not to the USA. It would be highly irregular for SV to do a cash deal with anyone. It's always oil for aircraft, which makes excellent business sense.
It looks good for everyone. SV look like they acquired new aircraft and Boeing looks like it has sold some more aeroplanes, when they haven't.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
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