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Saudia Signs For 12 787s  
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9893 times:

I just saw this report that Saudia "signed" for 12 787s.

http://arabnews.com/economy/article109236.ece

Quote:
RIYADH: Saudi Arabian Airlines (Saudia), which has signed an SR12-billion deal for the purchase of 12 super-efficient Boeing 787 airplanes to modernize its fleet, will reduce its fuel costs by 20 percent as the new-version aircraft are highly fuel-efficient.



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31421 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9882 times:
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This on top of the dozen 77Ws they are taking. Some nice deals for Boeing.

User currently offlinecerecl From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 741 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9728 times:

Wasn't this announced several years ago? Or is this a new order on top of the 12 they have already ordered? Looks like some news recycling?
http://www.us-sabc.org/custom/news/details.cfm?id=244
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...nes-to-acquire-787s-and-a330s.html


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9697 times:

I checked Boeing's orders and there's no Saudi order for the 787 listed. Perhaps this is the consummation of the actual sale?


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlinecerecl From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 741 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9673 times:

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 3):
Perhaps this is the consummation of the actual sale?

Actually according to this thread SV is leasing from ALAFCO, or something like that...
Rumor: Saudi Arabian To Buy 787s (by SV777KiloAlpha Sep 20 2007 in Civil Aviation)


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9640 times:

Yes, I remember that thread. Note HiJazzey's post at the end.

Quote:
Interesting. Leasing the planes from ALAFCO would give SV earlier delivery slots (2010?). But I think they'd want more than 12 788s.
If they do go ahead with this, I expect they'll also order some more from Boeing directly. I think in the region of 6 + 25 options.
Considering that, however, there will still be a net reduction in widebody capacity as the 747 classics leave the fleet. So the order may be bigger.

Perhaps we'll get some clarification this week?



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7002 posts, RR: 63
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9552 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
This on top of the dozen 77Ws they are taking. Some nice deals for Boeing.

Strictly speaking, of course, Saudi Arabian haven't actually ordered either. (The last Boeing planes Saudi Arabian ordered were in June 1995.)

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 3):
I checked Boeing's orders and there's no Saudi order for the 787 listed. Perhaps this is the consummation of the actual sale?

Read the source you provided.

"Jazzar, who gave an overview of the aviation industry with special reference to the market outlook of the Middle East, said that Saudia had ordered the Boeing 787 through a Kuwaiti leasing company and hence he cannot provide specifics of the deal."

This appears to be old news.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31421 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9541 times:
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Quoting PM (Reply 6):
Strictly speaking, of course, Saudi Arabian haven't actually ordered either. (The last Boeing planes Saudi Arabian ordered were in June 1995.)

Fair enough, but the lessors are taking new frames to lease to SV, not pulling from "available stock" parked in a desert, so it's still new metal (ansd CFRP) rolling out of PAE.  


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7002 posts, RR: 63
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9483 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
Fair enough, but the lessors are taking new frames to lease to SV, not pulling from "available stock" parked in a desert, so it's still new metal (ansd CFRP) rolling out of PAE.

I'm not entirely sure what point you are making. But if you are suggesting that this is 'new' business for Boeing, one might as easily observe that these are orders already booked and counted.

Anyway, who said that SV were leasing their 777-300s? I thought that was the unidentified order from April?


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31421 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9301 times:
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Quoting PM (Reply 8):
Anyway, who said that SV were leasing their 777-300s? I thought that was the unidentified order from April?

Well that is what I thought, but then you said they hadn't ordered either, so I thought maybe they were leased, as well...

Anyway,     Smile

[Edited 2010-08-22 06:29:40]

User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7002 posts, RR: 63
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9197 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
Well that is what I thought, but then you said they hadn't ordered either.

Nor have they. Check the Boeing O&D pages. But I thought that the April order = SV was an open secret. Hell, many people counted it in their running total of Farnborough orders till someone noted that it hadn't actually been announced.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
Anyway,   

Aw, come on. Don't give up already!  


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31421 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 9064 times:
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Quoting PM (Reply 10):
Nor have they. Check the Boeing O&D pages. But I thought that the April order = SV was an open secret.

It did match up with the SV document.that noted the delivery schedule for 12 777-300ERs, so maybe they're waiting until later in the year / early next year to formally announce they are behind the order.


User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6672 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8707 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
It did match up with the SV document.that noted the delivery schedule for 12 777-300ERs, so maybe they're waiting until later in the year / early next year to formally announce they are behind the order.

It's a bit odd that they haven't announced the 77W order yet since it's on their website that they have 12 77Ws on order. What are they waiting for ?

I guess they are getting more 787s now; the original lease from ALAFC was for 6 or 8 787s, not 12.

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4970 posts, RR: 40
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8671 times:
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Which type of the B787 have they ordered? The -8 or the -9?

Anyway it is good news for Boeing and it's suppliers.  


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31421 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8587 times:
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Quoting EPA001 (Reply 13):
Which type of the B787 have they ordered? The -8 or the -9?

Wiki says they have the 787-9. ALAFCO ordered the 787-8.


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7878 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 14):
ALAFCO ordered the 787-8.

So are they leasing 8s? Did ALAFCO get their hands on some 9 slots?



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7520 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 6):
Read the source you provided.

"Jazzar, who gave an overview of the aviation industry with special reference to the market outlook of the Middle East, said that Saudia had ordered the Boeing 787 through a Kuwaiti leasing company and hence he cannot provide specifics of the deal."

This appears to be old news.

Reading further it goes on to say:

Quote:
On the changing aviation landscape, and when the much anticipated Dreamliner Boeing 787 will take to the air, he said: "I am happy to see that Saudia will be one of the owners of the most advanced aircraft."

"Owner" vs "lessor". Is this an error on the part of the writer? Is Mr. Jazzar confused as to what the difference is between a lessor and an owner? Or is Saudia buying the aircraft from ALAFCO, or another lessor?

[Edited 2010-08-22 11:37:30]


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineHiJazzey From Saudi Arabia, joined Sep 2005, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7151 times:

Lumberton,

Many countries outside the US including Saudi use IFRS, and under those rules a lease financed aircraft does go on your balance sheet. So you do essentilly own it.

----

On the main topic...

From what I understand. SV agreed with ALAFCO to take 12 B788s, however that was before more recent orders and it was rumoured that they had since gone cold on the deal.

The recent comment could either be interpreted that they've firmed up their commitment with ALAFCO, or that they have signed a new deal.


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6742 times:

Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 17):
The recent comment could either be interpreted that they've firmed up their commitment with ALAFCO, or that they have signed a new deal.

Thanks, HiJazzey. Is there anything in the Saudi media that would shed some light on this?



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineHiJazzey From Saudi Arabia, joined Sep 2005, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6275 times:

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 18):
Thanks, HiJazzey. Is there anything in the Saudi media that would shed some light on this?

Haven't seen anything, but I don't read the local papers much


User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2751 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4532 times:

Here's a breakdown from what I remember about Saudi Arabian's 787 deal:

ALAFCO announced the transaction on their website in 2008(?). According to that announcement, Saudi Arabian will be leasing 4 of the 22 frames ALAFCO has on order with Boeing. In addition, they will be buying another 8 frames from ALAFCO (Boeing to ALAFCO to Saudi). According to the release, all 12 frames will be -9's. As others have pointed out, ALAFCO currently only has the -8 on order. However, this is certainly no obstacle as it is fairly simple and easy to swap models.

As also previously pointed out, there have been reports that SV has soured on this deal. So it'd be interesting to know if this rehash is a reconfirmation of the deal. There is also speculation that the UFO order for 15 -9's is for SV (in other words, SV buying directly from Boeing). At this point, it's anyone's guess (except SV) what exactly is going on. If I was a betting man, tho, I'd bet on SV getting quite a few 787-9's.  

And just FYI, ALAFCO is also leasing another 6 787-8's to Oman Air.


Regards,

Hamlet69   



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlinebabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3774 times:

In such a deal the SV money goes to Kuwait and not to the USA. It would be highly irregular for SV to do a cash deal with anyone. It's always oil for aircraft, which makes excellent business sense.

It looks good for everyone. SV look like they acquired new aircraft and Boeing looks like it has sold some more aeroplanes, when they haven't.


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