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GIG And The A380  
User currently offlinevarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1594 posts, RR: 8
Posted (4 years 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 8624 times:

I was wondering something about booming GIG and even more for the coming years (events and oil industry).

Since a "problem" with airlines serving GIG to/from europe is a frequently full F and J class, how about putting an A380 on the line which has so many J class seats?

I don't understand the policy of AF which sticks with an old 744 which will be probably replaced by a 77W (with appaling 3-4-3 seating in Y btw...)

One A380 would solve the lack of J and upgrade the Y to acceptable standards


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32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4009 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 8343 times:

The demand for business and first class in Sao Paulo is at least 3 x that of Rio. If airlines want to increase service to Rio, it is more likely they would add frequency than use bigger aircraft. Or in the case of some large foreign airlines like LH, start serving it!


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User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8319 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 8252 times:

Quoting incitatus (Reply 1):
The demand for business and first class in Sao Paulo is at least 3 x that of Rio.

But at the same time Sao Paulo has 3x the number of seats to Europe, that GIG has  


User currently offlinevarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1594 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 8183 times:

Quoting incitatus (Reply 1):
The demand for business and first class in Sao Paulo is at least 3 x that of Rio. If airlines want to increase service to Rio, it is more likely they would add frequency than use bigger aircraft. Or in the case of some large foreign airlines like LH, start serving it!

Yes but in the meantime everybody flies to GRU and lots of airlines don't fly to GIG which is to become an important oil city and needs a lot of technicians/consultants for its metro work in progress
An A380 would capture the J customers of airlines still not at GIG like LH LX EK TK which fly to GRU but don't provide direct service to GIG.



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User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4009 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8007 times:

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 3):
Yes but in the meantime everybody flies to GRU and lots of airlines don't fly to GIG which is to become an important oil city and needs a lot of technicians/consultants for its metro work in progress
An A380 would capture the J customers of airlines still not at GIG like LH LX EK TK which fly to GRU but don't provide direct service to GIG.

This argument can be adjusted to any major city in the world to justify larger aircraft. For example, SP has so many major corporations and offices of foreign banks and high-end services companies, the A380 would be just perfect for it. Or Buenos Aires, being the only gateway to Argentina, and again, so many foreign offices with F/J travel demand, and the longer distances involved, it would be such a perfect destination for the A380.

Now, Air France is strong with oil companies. It still chooses to fly twice daily to GIG with no first class and relatively high-density aircraft. If GIG was in such shortage of premium class supply, AF could switch its flights to the 777-300ERs with first class and pretty much double the number of premium class seats. They choose not to. Think about it.



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User currently onlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11437 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6581 times:
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Quoting incitatus (Reply 4):
Now, Air France is strong with oil companies. It still chooses to fly twice daily to GIG with no first class and relatively high-density aircraft. If GIG was in such shortage of premium class supply, AF could switch its flights to the 777-300ERs with first class and pretty much double the number of premium class seats. They choose not to. Think about it.

They lost the F market to TAM and some F passengers from Rio keep going to Europe thru Sao Paulo. AF have a problem with GIG: the market is more premium than the 744 and more leisure than the 77W with bigger C and F, and they will not deploy a dedicated plane to just one market.

Quoting varig md-11 (Thread starter):
Since a "problem" with airlines serving GIG to/from europe is a frequently full F and J class, how about putting an A380 on the line which has so many J class seats?

Rio's problem is at the same time, to have a booming oil industry plus good corporate activity and an also booming tourist industry. I just come back from GIG to JFK on sunday night on JJ F class: F full, C full and Y overbooked. That's the end of August... not such a strong leisure time. Hotels reach a 80% LF in July... low season in the city.

I don't know if we will see the A380 during the next 3 years, but for sure 2014 will bring some of them.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4009 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6255 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
They lost the F market to TAM and some F passengers from Rio keep going to Europe thru Sao Paulo

No they did not lose it. to say they lost it, in my opinion, they had to at least have fought for it against JJ. They thought the F market is too small.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
the market is more premium than the 744 and more leisure than the 77W with bigger C and F

AF has several different aircraft with different configurations and two flights a day to play with. They choose to flood the overnight southbound with coach capacity, i.e., the 747.



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User currently offlineChinook747 From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6067 times:

Quoting incitatus (Reply 4):
Now, Air France is strong with oil companies. It still chooses to fly twice daily to GIG with no first class and relatively high-density aircraft. If GIG was in such shortage of premium class supply, AF could switch its flights to the 777-300ERs with first class and pretty much double the number of premium class seats. They choose not to. Think about it

exactly, I think airlines like AF are very much aware of what it takes to make their routes profitable and the customers that are willing to buy those seats.


User currently offlinevarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1594 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5431 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
They lost the F market to TAM and some F passengers from Rio keep going to Europe thru Sao Paulo. AF have a problem with GIG: the market is more premium than the 744 and more leisure than the 77W with bigger C and F, and they will not deploy a dedicated plane to just one market.

I think AF is about to receive a new config 773ER with no F, a normal C class, and the dreaded 3-4-3 Y.
It would be used on SGN and MIA where there's a need for C and large Y but not for F

If an A380 is too much for GIG then AF could replace it's 744+A332 by a normal 77W and a 2nd 77W with the new config without F class catering for the Y need

Quoting incitatus (Reply 6):
AF has several different aircraft with different configurations and two flights a day to play with. They choose to flood the overnight southbound with coach capacity, i.e., the 747.

Yes, but that's part of the problem: the 744 is too old and about to leave

Quoting Chinook747 (Reply 7):
exactly, I think airlines like AF are very much aware of what it takes to make their routes profitable and the customers that are willing to buy those seats.

I am not as confident as you are
AF has also proven they're not able to solve their short/medium haul profitability issues...
AF and (EK too btw) will "prove" you also that customers applaud by a large majority their 77W 3-4-3 Y config: go to skytrax and you'll see how this turns out for pax



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User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4009 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4196 times:

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 8):
I am not as confident as you are
AF has also proven they're not able to solve their short/medium haul profitability issues...

In the context of Rio-Europe I would hesitate in criticizing Air France. They still believed in Rio after almost all foreign airlines stopped serving it nonstop. They built their service over the years to an unmatched amount of capacity. Airlines don't always get things right, but it seems Air France had their ears to the ground when it comes to Rio. It would be surprising if they were missing an opportunity to sell many more premium class tickets in Rio. Actually, if I look at their availability Rio-Paris in the next couple of weeks, most flights have many seats in business class available.

Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 8):
AF and (EK too btw) will "prove" you also that customers applaud by a large majority their 77W 3-4-3 Y config: go to skytrax and you'll see how this turns out for pax

I agree 10-across on the 777 is awful and I would be one of the first to complain. My quick back-of-the-envelope calculation is AF flies 10 thousand people in economy in the 77W every day. How many complain? How many don't even notice they have been sardined? Probably many many more.



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User currently onlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11437 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4052 times:
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Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 8):
I think AF is about to receive a new config 773ER with no F, a normal C class, and the dreaded 3-4-3 Y.
It would be used on SGN and MIA where there's a need for C and large Y but not for F

If an A380 is too much for GIG then AF could replace it's 744+A332 by a normal 77W and a 2nd 77W with the new config without F class catering for the Y need

The fact is that the "new" 77W setup will mean less seats. Again the point is that or they look to a premium product and offer less Y, or even with the new 77W, they will offer less seats (which could be good for yields).
They could go for a premium config and now are looking to JJ to offer what they could do: 12F 90C or 8F 60C some days of the week to Europe.


Quoting incitatus (Reply 6):
No they did not lose it. to say they lost it, in my opinion, they had to at least have fought for it against JJ. They thought the F market is too small.

It's not small, you can't quantify because there's few flights, but there are passengers. Bankers and top management of corporations many times visit both markets (Rio and Sao Paulo) and they often could return or arrive in one city.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 6):
AF has several different aircraft with different configurations and two flights a day to play with. They choose to flood the overnight southbound with coach capacity, i.e., the 747.

The yields are good, why to change ? In 2005 all Rio got from Europe were AF 744 daily, TP A343 daily and 5x weekly IB A343 and Varig B772. The fact is, there's few seats for GIG to Europe on all classes right now.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4009 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3854 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
The yields are good, why to change ? In 2005 all Rio got from Europe were AF 744 daily, TP A343 daily and 5x weekly IB A343 and Varig B772. The fact is, there's few seats for GIG to Europe on all classes right now.

AF tends to have more different aircraft in more configurations than most other airlines. They change type or configuration in their routes often. The fact that have not removed the 747 from Rio may also indicate that the hi-density 77W has too few business class seats for the route, and not that they have missed on experimenting.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
It's not small, you can't quantify because there's few flights, but there are passengers. Bankers and top management of corporations many times visit both markets (Rio and Sao Paulo) and they often could return or arrive in one city.

We cannot quantify it, ok. However, I looked at what TAM has for sale on GIG-CDG. Often times, when F is sold out, J is sold out too. It may be TAM sold out F to F customers, it may be that TAM sold out F to customers that would have purchased J if it was available, or it may be TAM sold out J, overbooked J and zero'd out F availability. You cannot say demand is not small either.

Then there is the issue of how much it really costs to offer a separate F cabin, and whether offering F makes TAM more money than offering a larger J cabin. I think TAM has no idea. Rearranging galleys they could replace the 4 F seats with 8 or 12 J seats.



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User currently onlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11437 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3716 times:
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Quoting incitatus (Reply 11):
We cannot quantify it, ok. However, I looked at what TAM has for sale on GIG-CDG. Often times, when F is sold out, J is sold out too. It may be TAM sold out F to F customers, it may be that TAM sold out F to customers that would have purchased J if it was available, or it may be TAM sold out J, overbooked J and zero'd out F availability. You cannot say demand is not small either.

My experience. I bought the last seat on GIG-JFK and was F. I tried to negotiate a full-business class fare, but wasn't possible and i had to pay P class. So i can tell you that TAM is very comfortable selling F tickets and this is happening to LHR, FRA and CDG. Special Services (First handling service) double it's size in Rio to deal with the bigger demand and for me it's a clear indication. Further, there's no First Class with FF points... never... i would love to spent 50,000 FF points to get a Rio-NY / NY-Rio ticket but right now, JFK only got flights available on the daylight thru Sao Paulo. Both overnights do not offer FF seats.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 11):

Then there is the issue of how much it really costs to offer a separate F cabin, and whether offering F makes TAM more money than offering a larger J cabin. I think TAM has no idea. Rearranging galleys they could replace the 4 F seats with 8 or 12 J seats

They could just replace 4F by 6C right now. Remember that some A332 were 0F 42C and become 4F 36C.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 11):
AF tends to have more different aircraft in more configurations than most other airlines. They change type or configuration in their routes often. The fact that have not removed the 747 from Rio may also indicate that the hi-density 77W has too few business class seats for the route, and not that they have missed on experimenting.

I keep saying that they are losing time. A A380 is not a bad idea at all to GIG if a little less premium.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinevarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1594 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3600 times:

Quoting incitatus (Reply 11):
The fact that have not removed the 747 from Rio may also indicate that the hi-density 77W has too few business class seats for the route, and not that they have missed on experimenting.

One way or another, they will have to retire the 744 within 2 years: so it will be the 77W if the A380 is seen as too big.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 11):
Often times, when F is sold out, J is sold out too. It may be TAM sold out F to F customers, it may be that TAM sold out F to customers that would have purchased J if it was available, or it may be TAM sold out J, overbooked J and zero'd out F availability. You cannot say demand is not small either.

From JJ: to/from CDG they upgrade J pax to F only if they're "vermelho", so zeroing out F availability by upgrading J pax isn't an everyday occurence I believe.
Also, pax buying F because J isn't available...well the price is a bit higher! I know pax from GIG are rich, but still...and corporations are more looking into the plane tickets issue than they used to be

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
I keep saying that they are losing time. A A380 is not a bad idea at all to GIG if a little less premium.

I can't agree more! the 744 will go soon and be replaced by a 77W?
That's nearly 100 seats lost, while I believed AF was targetting Y pax from cruises and groups with it's 744
If that's the case, then the second flight should be a 772 instead of an A332



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User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4009 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3433 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
They could just replace 4F by 6C right now. Remember that some A332 were 0F 42C and become 4F 36C.

The standard config more than likely was driven by the value of having a uniform fleet. What are your thoughts on buying your F ticket only to be surprised by TAM at the last minute replacing it with a no-F frame? Two configs in a small fleet also reduce average utilization per day.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
I keep saying that they are losing time.

To say that you have be able to look at their flight profitability data.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 12):
A A380 is not a bad idea at all to GIG if a little less premium.

AF combined their CDG-JNB, which consumes almost two frames, with CDG-NRT, which consumes slightly more than one, to get both services going with three frames. I say it is not impossible to get a similar route with another destination - this time down in South America.

But GIG's predicament is exactly what makes it more attractive than both GRU and EZE for the A380. Nothing!

AF A380 order is for only 12 + 2 options. Where will the A380s go next? I say HKG, PVG, PEK, more JFK, more NRT, LAX. It will even be a surprise if either EZE or GRU get them.



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User currently offlinehardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 days ago) and read 3397 times:

Quoting incitatus (Reply 14):
AF combined their CDG-JNB, which consumes almost two frames, with CDG-NRT, which consumes slightly more than one, to get both services going with three frames. I say it is not impossible to get a similar route with another destination - this time down in South America.

But GIG's predicament is exactly what makes it more attractive than both GRU and EZE for the A380. Nothing!

AF A380 order is for only 12 + 2 options. Where will the A380s go next? I say HKG, PVG, PEK, more JFK, more NRT, LAX. It will even be a surprise if either EZE or GRU get them.



AF CDG-JNB operated as one flight daylight and the other one red-eye, before the introduction of the A380 it changed to double daily red-eye B772/B77W and finally double daily red-eye B77W/B77W. Hence the A380 replacement is perfect for the market, also note that SA has withdrawn from CDG about 3 years ago boosting AF performance in South Africa, which is complemented by KL daily AMS-JNB B772 and KL daily AMS-CPT B772.

GRU and GIG is different, AF needs to keep one flight operating daylight because it feeds from early morning arrival from Far East and Africa (West Africa) allowing for perfect onward connection to GRU/GIG (AF has littel feed Far East/Africa>JNB for obvious reasons). If AF drops the daylight GRU/GIG in favour of a red-eye A380 it will cut connections from major markets which keep its C/F cabins full in Brazil.

Based on the above, I can only expect the A380 in Brazil in the long run perhaps in 8 years from now. LH is a different situation, they operate in different hub pattern. In my view LH and EK are the candidates to deploy the A380 in Brazil (ie GRU) first in this order.

Rgs,


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2887 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3335 times:
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My primary problem is finding a C seat to Rio from Europe for a nomal C fare. I will upgrade to F if flying from JFK and my company will pay for F if C is not available. My travel plans can sometimes change in a day. So if it is an AF or LH A380 will add enough more C seats and free up my choices and slightly reduce fares that would be great. Right now my best luck is TAP if I wont get on JJ's 777 LHR to GIG. (was it LHR or FRA to GIG they are planning?) and TAP isn't that bad actually-not Singapore for sure, but no complaints vs an LH biz seat or AA etc. (plus I would go for frequency and time choices over one flying football stadium myself)


The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently onlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11437 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3290 times:
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Quoting incitatus (Reply 14):
The standard config more than likely was driven by the value of having a uniform fleet. What are your thoughts on buying your F ticket only to be surprised by TAM at the last minute replacing it with a no-F frame? Two configs in a small fleet also reduce average utilization per day.

I don't see a point to remove F. Brazil is one of the 10 largest economies and is getting a lot of events and key visitors. They should invest in more premium space!
In the end TAM have two sub fleets, one used for Sao Paulo and a smaller used for Rio. 6 frames used in Rio and 12 in Sao Paulo, but they are all with 1 config. Would not be a problem to have two configs, and in fact, they should do it, generating an even more premium one. Instead of 4F 36C, they shall try 4F 48C on 4-6 frames.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 14):
To say that you have be able to look at their flight profitability data.

No one can but i rather say that sold tickets are money and good fares without FF seats shall mean more money.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 14):
AF combined their CDG-JNB, which consumes almost two frames, with CDG-NRT, which consumes slightly more than one, to get both services going with three frames. I say it is not impossible to get a similar route with another destination - this time down in South America.

That's a good view, but you have to see that AF could use F easily to GIG, and that's the point.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 16):
Right now my best luck is TAP if I wont get on JJ's 777 LHR to GIG. (was it LHR or FRA to GIG they are planning?

A332 GIG-FRA 5x weekly , in place
A332 GIG-LHR 3x weekly, also in place
A332 GIG-CDG daily, well established
B772 LHR-GIG BA, 3x weekly, good alternative for GIG-Europe

Quoting VC10er (Reply 16):
My primary problem is finding a C seat to Rio from Europe for a nomal C fare. I will upgrade to F if flying from JFK and my company will pay for F if C is not available. My travel plans can sometimes change in a day

Exactly my problem. The last three trips to GIG i have to divert plans, change dates or use Sao Paulo as stop because of the lack of seats. I even tried US once and they were full on their Envoy class.
Last week i had to buy F due to the (severe) lack of J seats. Even on Full-Fare J, TAM was not able to sell me a ticket for Saturday or Sunday. Only available seats were full fare Y (and the flight was overbooked but with US$ 2,300 OW its not a problem to pay US$ 800 to one passenger) and Full fare P.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3699 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3230 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 16):
(was it LHR or FRA to GIG they are planning?)
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
A332 GIG-FRA 5x weekly , in place
A332 GIG-LHR 3x weekly, also in place

Exactly! As Lipe said, TAM started operating GIG-LHR and GIG-FRA on August 10th. Should you travel to GIG in the next months, flying nonstop is the best alternative.


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2887 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3166 times:
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I always ask my assistant who handles my travel; "try TAM in business to Rio" from JFK or Europe I rarely luck out. I hope this is showing up as very positive revenue on their reporting to shareholders! Every time I fly them it's like the tickets were free! Full nose to tail (except once JFK-GIG-JFK just one other pax)


The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3699 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3153 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 19):
I always ask my assistant who handles my travel; "try TAM in business to Rio" from JFK or Europe I rarely luck out. I hope this is showing up as very positive revenue on their reporting to shareholders! Every time I fly them it's like the tickets were free! Full nose to tail (except once JFK-GIG-JFK just one other pax)

Try to keep in mind that TAM's nonstop LHR-GIG operates on Tuesdays, Fridays and Sundays.


User currently onlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11437 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3090 times:
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Quoting VC10er (Reply 19):
I always ask my assistant who handles my travel; "try TAM in business to Rio" from JFK or Europe I rarely luck out. I hope this is showing up as very positive revenue on their reporting to shareholders! Every time I fly them it's like the tickets were free! Full nose to tail (except once JFK-GIG-JFK just one other pax)

That's not news for me VC10er. It has been like that since November and i believe the Olympics "helped" Rio to become busy in terms of premium classes.

It's true that there's a lot going on in Rio... which city in the world have 3 museums under constructions, two of them with world-class design. A new refill station for the city garbage already considered the best solution in Latin America, Soccer stadium to become a major renovation, almost 15 new hotels in final planning or under construction, some office buildings in constructions, dozens of residential buildings, one major shipyard under complete renovation, and in the sorrounding areas, the biggest oil refinery in South America will be taking shape as a result of US$ 11 billion in investments, a big sea port complex is being built in the North as well as some resorts. The situation is so different from 5 years ago that now a group of corporations, including one with HQ in Sao Paulo, donate more than US$ 15 million to help the government to increase security efforts (okay, the Mr. South America Billionaire give the most!)



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2887 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2991 times:
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GIG is the most difficult to do without a stop in GRU or in the USA or Europe. It's comes down to where I want transfer? If TAM to GIG from JFK is full, then I either stop in GRU or when UA runs it's seasonal from IAD. From somewhere in Europe it's often TAP thru LIS. I try and stick with StarAlliance. Only after a try on TAM. And none of it is cheap- you'd think you were flying to the moon in C for what they all charge!


The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3699 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2959 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 22):
GIG is the most difficult to do without a stop in GRU or in the USA or Europe. It's comes down to where I want transfer? If TAM to GIG from JFK is full, then I either stop in GRU or when UA runs it's seasonal from IAD. From somewhere in Europe it's often TAP thru LIS. I try and stick with StarAlliance. Only after a try on TAM. And none of it is cheap- you'd think you were flying to the moon in C for what they all charge!

Try US Airways through CLT.


User currently onlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11437 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2916 times:
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Quoting VC10er (Reply 22):
GIG is the most difficult to do without a stop in GRU or in the USA or Europe

That's why international services are growing so much. From 140,000 international passengers per month to almost 300,000 in July. A true lack of services, that become more clear after Rio become the Olympic city. Corporations and governments are going to Rio to find out what they can do.... but there's no seats for all of them.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 VC10er : I was going try US thru CLT one day soon. It's a 767, what is the F/C (Envoy?) seat like? Does it have the new flat beds (Not Angled)?
26 C010T3 : They only have the angled ones AFAIK.
27 Post contains links and images LipeGIG : You're right, is angled, but it's lie flat From US Airways website http://www.usairways.com/en-US/Resou...heair/envoyfirst/Envoy767_seat.jpg
28 VC10er : Are the NEW seats non-angled lie flats due to be put on their 767's? The ones configured like a fish bone but face the windows? I have seen pics of th
29 LipeGIG : I believe the A332 will replace the B762 fleet. About CLT-GIG, nowadays is performing better. Fares in general are higher, loads are high and day aft
30 VC10er : Internationally they are not bad! Nothing to write to your friends about- and with a good crew you'd never believe it was a US Airway's flight from LG
31 hardiwv : Lipe, US CLT-GIG continues among the worse performing airlines between US and Brazil with 60% loads. TAM also has angled seats. DL new seats (fishbon
32 LipeGIG : You're using February info, i'm using current info. March will show the route even worst than February, April will begin to show a recovery, May was
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