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Cirrus SR-22 Accident In Texas  
User currently offlinerkmcswain From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 222 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5886 times:

Accident in Texas last night: http://www.khou.com/news/local/Pilot...County-neighborhood-101374779.html
The registration number, N8154M, visible in the video, comes up as either an SR-20 or SR-22. The news reporter ever so nonchalantly mentions the "parachute of the plane"....

How many successful parachute "landings" have there been with these aircraft?
I would think that if the media had any idea, this would be a bit more of a news story - at least from a different angle...

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineaogdesk From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 935 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5832 times:

I've known 3 individuals who have perished in 3 separate incidents in the Cirrus over the last two years. Unfortunately, they were all in low altitude flight.....never had a chance to use the chute.

I'm curious to get a pilots perspective on these... (and I am not a pilot) Do they get away too quickly from inexperienced or low time pilots?


User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2308 posts, RR: 38
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5797 times:

Ive got a few hours in that plane (N8154M), wonder what happened. It used to be on lease-back at Hi-Tech Aviation at Hooks Airport.

ATCT
(And no, I didnt like flying the Cirrus)



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1630 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5747 times:

Here is little clip on a Dutch website of the Argentinan airshow crash, including a ballistic missile safe at relative low alttitude;

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/1078...3214/vleugel_is_vliegtuig_zat.html

(The title in Dutch reads; "Wing is fed up with airplane"... )



Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlinerkmcswain From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5728 times:

Another report here: http://www.hcnonline.com/articles/20...oe_courier/news/planecrash0824.txt

I suppose it is possible that the parachute deployed as a result of the crash, and that it was not a factor in the accident?


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5683 times:

Quoting aogdesk (Reply 1):
Do they get away too quickly from inexperienced or low time pilots?

There seems to be a fair number of people who think that the parachute gives inexperienced pilots a false sense of security.

Quoting rkmcswain (Reply 4):
I suppose it is possible that the parachute deployed as a result of the crash, and that it was not a factor in the accident?

I think there have been incidents where the parachute rockets cooked off in the fire.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1567 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5650 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):

There seems to be a fair number of people who think that the parachute gives inexperienced pilots a false sense of security.

I'm one of the members of that camp. I think that Cirrus makes a good airplane, but their marketing department is what I don't like. They make the plane sound like it can handle anything, with a 75 hour pilot at the controls. Its the new "Doctor Killer" like the Beechcraft Bonanza used to be often called.

-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4491 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5544 times:

Quoting aogdesk (Reply 1):
I'm curious to get a pilots perspective on these... (and I am not a pilot) Do they get away too quickly from inexperienced or low time pilots?

I think so. Lots of inexperienced/non-proficient pilots fly Cirrus aircraft and it's not a pretty sight. I worry for their safety.

Quoting rkmcswain (Reply 4):
I suppose it is possible that the parachute deployed as a result of the crash, and that it was not a factor in the accident?

It is possible, and has happened before.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
There seems to be a fair number of people who think that the parachute gives inexperienced pilots a false sense of security.

   Count me as one of them.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 6):
I think that Cirrus makes a good airplane, but their marketing department is what I don't like.

At least the early build Cirruses were junk from a reliability standpoint and I really didn't trust them. I have a lot of time in one of the first SR22-G2's and something was constantly broken (not to mention the interior trim panels religiously fell on my head).

But I 100% agree with the latter. Their marketing is "effective" but dangerous. A Cirrus is not an aircraft for a beginner or someone who isn't proficient.

Quoting atct (Reply 2):
(And no, I didnt like flying the Cirrus)

Agree. The Cirrus is not much fun to "fly"--it's a good airplane to get where you're going. But for just going out and puttering for awhile? Forget it.

Quoting aogdesk (Reply 1):
Unfortunately, they were all in low altitude flight.....never had a chance to use the chute.

Basic chute minimums are 400' AGL and 133KIAS or below. You're right...chute probably wouldn't have helped them even if they'd deployed it.



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5517 times:

It looks as if there wasn't a fire after the crash. The pilot survived, but with severe head injuries. It was departing Williams Field at the time of the crash, this is up by Porter, Texas just north of Houston.
The plane was a 2003 Cirrus 20.

I wonder if this was a fuel starvation issue?


User currently offlineEightball From Saudi Arabia, joined Oct 2007, 281 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5407 times:

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 7):
A Cirrus is not an aircraft for a beginner or someone who isn't proficient.

I agree. On the other hand, Cirrus says otherwise. In the brochure linked below, in page 27, Cirrus gives the impression that their aircraft are suitable for beginners in terms of primary flight training:

http://cirrusaircraft.com/brochure/index.htm

Compare that with the minimum criteria required to fly this SR22 in the Plus One Flyers flying club:

http://www.cirrusrental.com/

Quote from the above linked site: "Pilots must have a minimum of 250 hours to qualify for a checkout".



Follow your dream.
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4491 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5329 times:

Quoting Eightball (Reply 9):
I agree. On the other hand, Cirrus says otherwise. In the brochure linked below, in page 27, Cirrus gives the impression that their aircraft are suitable for beginners in terms of primary flight training:

Actually I find that page interesting.

Instead of saying it's "easy aircraft in which to learn to fly," they advertise a program where they give you an instructor for all your flights for one year.

That's kinda a tacit way of saying "yeah, you probably shouldn't be in this aircraft alone, or do the bare minimum of training in it," I think.



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1567 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5317 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 8):
It looks as if there wasn't a fire after the crash.

Very lucky man in this crash. Most of the Cirrus crashes end with a post impact fire, due to the nature of their fuel tank design. Personally, that's the biggest issue I've got with the airplane, with the inclusion of a parachute being the second biggest issue.

Quoting Eightball (Reply 9):
I agree. On the other hand, Cirrus says otherwise. In the brochure linked below, in page 27, Cirrus gives the impression that their aircraft are suitable for beginners in terms of primary flight training:

Well of course they are going to say that. If they came out and said "This might not be the best airplane for a beginner pilot" they wouldn't sell any. Heck, I know a guy who in 3 years had upgraded his SR-22 3 times. First he bought a SR-22G3, then a year later upgraded to a SR-22G3 Turbo, then decided after that he wanted one that was FIKI equipped. Those are the people who Cirrus makes a killing on.

-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlineCBPhoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1567 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5145 times:

Well...its sad, but the concept is the same! Its exactly what the bonanzas were like back in the 80s and 90s. Too much airplane, to little of a pilot, in terms of experience. The cirrus aircraft are powerful aircraft, and if you are not experienced enough,or get over confident in it's abilities, it can easily kill you. I have also heard that Cirrus has had some questionable selling points to the aircraft, to lure in the rich, inexperienced pilots who can afford them new. As long as Cirrus aircraft are marketed to the inexperienced pilots, they will continue to have this sort of reputation!


ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5141 times:

Quoting CBPhoto (Reply 12):
I have also heard that Cirrus has had some questionable selling points to the aircraft, to lure in the rich, inexperienced pilots who can afford them new.

That's kind of where I would draw the line. I haven't looked much at their marketing, but I think that there is a distinct difference between Cirrus saying that the parachute means that pilots can push themselves and the plane further and the pilots deciding that on their own.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineCBPhoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1567 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5122 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
That's kind of where I would draw the line. I haven't looked much at their marketing, but I think that there is a distinct difference between Cirrus saying that the parachute means that pilots can push themselves and the plane further and the pilots deciding that on their own.

Actually, a lot of what I had heard had nothing to do with the parachutes, but more the do with the capabilities of the aircraft. One example, is apparently with the leading edge devises, Cirrus was marketing the fact that the aircraft had the ability to loose an engine on take off, and with the high lift device, could easily make a 180 back to the runway for a safe landing. Now, I am sure it can be done, however I would not want some 300 hr pilot trying it, seeing as though there is a very small margin for error. Stuff like this, that puts too much confidence in an in-experienced pilot, is what gets them killed!



ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21681 posts, RR: 55
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5066 times:

Quoting CBPhoto (Reply 14):
One example, is apparently with the leading edge devises, Cirrus was marketing the fact that the aircraft had the ability to loose an engine on take off, and with the high lift device, could easily make a 180 back to the runway for a safe landing.

This can be done in most airplanes - the question is at what altitude you have to be when you lose the engine. 1000' AGL is a pretty safe altitude for light piston singles, but if you're trying it at 300' AGL things are going to end rather badly.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 14 hours ago) and read 4887 times:

But remember when you make a turn, you are going to lose altitude. And your stall speed increases too. Losing altitude and speed via an engine failure almost always ends up being deadly for those trying to turn back to the departing runway. It usually ends up being a stall/spin.

The best way to handle this is to immediately set the aircraft for best rate of glide and then look for a landing site somewhere ahead of the aircraft. It is always better to touch down while in control of the aircraft rather than letting the aircraft get sideways with you.


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 4804 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 16):
The best way to handle this is to immediately set the aircraft for best rate of glide and then look for a landing site somewhere ahead of the aircraft.

Precisely, and that is the sort of judgement that novice pilots may not get right. Of course, some planes do not suffer fools gladly, and the SR-22 might be one of them.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
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