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DL Files To Serve LHR-BOS/MIA  
User currently offlineglobalflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 926 posts, RR: 3
Posted (3 years 12 months 19 hours ago) and read 18858 times:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Delta-...es-to-prnews-9732261.html?x=0&.v=1

DL has filed to service LHR-BOS twice daily on 767-300ER's and once daily LHR-MIA on 767-300ERs effective March 2011. I am sure that these are the slots that would come from the oneworld carriers for their JV.


Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
184 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3432 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (3 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 18786 times:

Quoting globalflyer (Thread starter):
DL has filed to service LHR-BOS twice daily on 767-300ER's and once daily LHR-MIA on 767-300ERs effective March 2011. I am sure that these are the slots that would come from the oneworld carriers for their JV.

I wish them luck. I think they may have a good chence in the BOS-LHR market. AA's presence in BOS has dwindled, but AA and BA are still very strong across the Atlantic.

In Miami, I really don't think they have a fighting chance. ADelta flies to Atlanta, Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky, Detroit, Memphis, Minneapolis/St. Paul, New York-JFK and Washington-Reagan from Miami. NONE of those would provide any feed for this flight. Furthermore, they have the very dominant AA/ BA which provide connections from across oneworld's vast Latin American network to LHR. DL would be better off running a FLL-LHR flight and take the feed of airlines like Spirit and B6 for passengers from Latin America wishing to get to London.

BOS- thumbs up!
MIA- two thumbs down!

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlinekimberlyrj From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 18737 times:

hey hey

Why is Delta making this move?

Delta would be face to face with VS & BA on both BOS & MIA routes, I guess DL may win some American pax but I can’t see that many Brit’s flying them, unless they are very very cheap!

I love to fly different airlines all the time, but if I had a choice to fly BA, DL or VS to any destination DL would be my last choice – but – maybe their service has improved in the last six months?

Kimberly


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4655 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (3 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 18708 times:

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 1):
In Miami, I really don't think they have a fighting chance. ADelta flies to Atlanta, Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky, Detroit, Memphis, Minneapolis/St. Paul, New York-JFK and Washington-Reagan from Miami. NONE of those would provide any feed for this flight. Furthermore, they have the very dominant AA/ BA which provide connections from across oneworld's vast Latin American network to LHR. DL would be better off running a FLL-LHR flight and take the feed of airlines like Spirit and B6 for passengers from Latin America wishing to get to London.

Im wondering if its not just a ploy to win the slot, once you have the slot, if it doesnt work, thats to stop you from making it a 4th JFK flight?



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineDL WIDGET HEAD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2088 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (3 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 18707 times:

Wow, didn't see those coming. It's going to be a real battle with AA on those routes. I wish them well and will keep my fingers crossed. Glad to see DL realizing the potential of MIA despite the AA fortress hub there. Wonder if we'll see more DL MIA-INTL service in the future??

User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7110 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (3 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 18708 times:

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 1):
I wish them luck. I think they may have a good chence in the BOS-LHR market. AA's presence in BOS has dwindled, but AA and BA are still very strong across the Atlantic.

#1 Why did they go into two AA markets?
#2 I agree MIA will be disastrous


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (3 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 18656 times:

WHOA? DL LHR-MIA? Why not AMS-MIA?

I'm sure AA upper management is having double heart attacks in DFW right now but in the end they are going to step it attempt to drive DL out of the market.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8287 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (3 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 18655 times:

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 1):
I wish them luck. I think they may have a good chence in the BOS-LHR market. AA's presence in BOS has dwindled, but AA and BA are still very strong across the Atlantic.

The reason these slots are even available is because AA/BA are being forced to drop LHR-BOS frequencies and give them away. So there will be less AA/BA on this route.

Quoting kimberlyrj (Reply 2):
Why is Delta making this move?

Because they'd be stupid not to. It's a free LHR slot. I was hoping US would apply for BOS-LHR instead. Bummer.


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5240 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (3 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 18612 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 3):
Im wondering if its not just a ploy to win the slot, once you have the slot, if it doesnt work, thats to stop you from making it a 4th JFK flight?

I don't believe they could do that. As I recall from the Oneworld ATI approval thread, these slots would be restricted to BOS and MIA service.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6464 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (3 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 18584 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 3):
Im wondering if its not just a ploy to win the slot, once you have the slot, if it doesnt work, thats to stop you from making it a 4th JFK flight?




I don't believe the slots at LHR are route specific. The slots will very likely come from one of its joint venture partners ie: AZ, KL or AF.


User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1540 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (3 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 18546 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 3):
Im wondering if its not just a ploy to win the slot, once you have the slot, if it doesnt work, thats to stop you from making it a 4th JFK flight?
Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
#1 Why did they go into two AA markets?

IIRC, the DOT required AA/BA to give up 4 slot pairs, 2 of which are earmarked for BOS. That explains why they are going in to BOS, but if the other two slots could be from basically anywhere else, why did they choose MIA? MIA definitely has the best chance of being approved being an AA hub, but why not apply for SEA or LAX where they would at least have some chance of success?

Quoting airbazar (Reply 7):
AA/BA are being forced to drop LHR-BOS frequencies and give them away. So there will be less AA/BA on this route.

The slots don't have to come directly from BOS-LHR. AA/BA can keep the same level of service.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 8):
As I recall from the Oneworld ATI approval thread, these slots would be restricted to BOS and MIA service.

2 of the 4 are for BOS, but I don't remember the other two being reserved for MIA.  



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineburnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (3 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 18547 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
#1 Why did they go into two AA markets?

Well DL is pretty big in Boston and the Northeast as a whole.

Quoting enilria (Reply 5):
#2 I agree MIA will be disastrous

Delta is the second largest carrier at MIA with a lot of FF's in the MIA/FLL./PBI area along with some major business contracts in south florida.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1540 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (3 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 18476 times:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 10):
Quoting OA412 (Reply 8):
As I recall from the Oneworld ATI approval thread, these slots would be restricted to BOS and MIA service.

2 of the 4 are for BOS, but I don't remember the other two being reserved for MIA.

Here is the DOT ruling on the 4 slot pairs:

While the Department found that the alliance, on balance, was pro-competitive, it noted that the alliance could harm competition on select routes between the United States and London's Heathrow Airport, a major hub for oneworld, where the availability of landing and takeoff slots is limited. To remedy this potential problem, the Department required the applicants to make four pairs of slots at Heathrow available to competitors for new U.S.-London service, with two pairs to be used for Boston-London service and the other two for service from any other U.S. cities.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...ot-approves-alliance-antitrus.html



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9316 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (3 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 18470 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 9):

I don't believe the slots at LHR are route specific.

they are in this case.
There was a thread about it with all of the rules not to long ago, but its due to the ATI between AA/BA/IB.



yep.
User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4275 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (3 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 18408 times:

It is the European antitrust authority who wanted four frequencies available: 2 for LHR-BOS, 1 for LHR-MIA, and 1 for LHR-DFW. Those were their demands. DL is stepping into the two markets they feel they can compete best in while also preventing other competitors from picking up the slots.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineVS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 18304 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 13):
they are in this case.
There was a thread about it with all of the rules not to long ago, but its due to the ATI between AA/BA/IB.

Yes, the thread is below.

Will We Ever See A Star Carrier On LHR-BOS? (by UAL777UK Aug 20 2010 in Civil Aviation)


User currently offlinekimberlyrj From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 18245 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 7):
Because they'd be stupid not to. It's a free LHR slot. I was hoping US would apply for BOS-LHR instead. Bummer.

It may be a free slot (which costs a lot of money by the way) but you need passengers to fill it, VS has Virgin Holidays to fill any empty seats and BA has a contract with Carnival INC (cruises out of MIA and FLL) as well as RCCL to fill theirs. I just can’t see where Delta is going to find their pax from, unless they undercut the current prices which will mean they make no money.

On BOS I can see why DL have stepped in and it does make sense and yes I agree it would have been nicer to see US Airways on that route.

Kimberly


User currently offlinefcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 783 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 18029 times:

DAL applying for these routes presumably doesn't prevent other airlines applying for them as well? Now they have made a move maybe others will.

User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1438 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (3 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 18029 times:

So much for DL having "no interest" in these slots according to a poster on here since AF/KL would "provide for them"... 

Do we all know DL's reasons as to why? probably not entirely. I thought I read somewhere that DFW and MIA also had to be divested 1 each for about 18 months. After that period, DFW/MIA could be changed into another gateway to LHR. Where might I have read that? If true, it may be a reason for DL to "take" MIA, for now, and change it later.

Always expect the unexpected.

[Edited 2010-08-26 12:00:27]


Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9316 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (3 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 17906 times:

Quoting peanuts (Reply 19):
So much for DL having "no interest" in these slots according to a poster on here since AF/KL would "provide for them"..

but i do expect the "delta will fail" speech.  
Quoting fcogafa (Reply 18):
DAL applying for these routes presumably doesn't prevent other airlines applying for them as well? Now they have made a move maybe others will.

its a bid, so if US jumps in then its who wants to give AA/BA the most money. Also BA/AA can lease the slots, but that isn't a given.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 19):

Do we all know DL's reasons as to why? probably not entirely. I thought I read somewhere that DFW and MIA also had to be divested 1 each for about 18 months. After that period, DFW/MIA could be changed into another gateway to LHR. Where might I have read that? If true, it may be a reason for DL to "take" MIA, for now, and change it later

I believe it has to keep the same flight number and i believe the date is 2013.



yep.
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11523 posts, RR: 61
Reply 20, posted (3 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 17722 times:

Hmmm.

Interesting.

I don't think either of these is dead-on-arrival, but neither is really a slam dunk either.

I agree with what others have said that BOS would probably be the lighter lift for Delta strategically - although I question how long this 2x daily 763 schedule will be sustainable, and whether or not it may end up being 757s, and maybe only 1x daily. As for MIA, I agree that it will be a challenge - it's a huge local market, and Delta is not at all tiny in South Florida, but it will face a systemic disadvantage there that may be hard to overcome.

I suppose we'll see how it goes, but I'm not sure how long this schedule will last - at least precisely as Delta proposes it today.

On a somewhat related note, two things I did find interesting from the press release:

1. They are proposing specific times, which is interesting because if it will, indeed, use slots from AA/BA, how do they know what slot times they're going to get?

2. I found the quote that Delta is "Florida's largest carrier offering international service" to be a bit comical, since the total amount of "international service" that Delta presently offers from Florida to be a rounding error compared with a certain other airline that actually has an international hub in the state. (Sort of reminds me of "end-to-end networks" and such.) Ah, those marketing folks ...

[Edited 2010-08-26 12:23:52]

User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7545 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (3 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 17703 times:


If this is the case, it makes perfect sense. As time goes by, MIA-LHR can become MIA-ATL/JFK-LHR.

[Edited 2010-08-26 15:41:24 by srbmod]

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 6):

I'm sure AA upper management is having double heart attacks in DFW right now but in the end they are going to step it attempt to drive DL out of the market.

I highly doubt AA cares about DL starting MIA-LHR. Its nothing they cant handle. I think the motive becomes clearer below:

Quoting peanuts (Reply 19):

Do we all know DL's reasons as to why? probably not entirely. I thought I read somewhere that DFW and MIA also had to be divested 1 each for about 18 months. After that period, DFW/MIA could be changed into another gateway to LHR. Where might I have read that? If true, it may be a reason for DL to "take" MIA, for now, and change it later.

Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinesimairlinenet From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 912 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (3 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 17824 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 17):
IIRC after 2013 DL can make the MIA flight 1-stop

My understanding was that they could be transferred if the slots did not have anyone sign up to use them. But then, why not apply for DFW too? Too much of a short-term loss?

Other questions:
-Why both BOS slots instead of one?
-Any chance that U.S. Customs would finally set up shop in BOS Terminal A?
-Why not apply for any of the JFK slots?


User currently offlineVS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 17793 times:

Quoting deltal1011man (Reply 13):
There was a thread about it with all of the rules not to long ago, but its due to the ATI between AA/BA/IB.

Don't know what you mean by a "much better thread" but since you were referrring to the rules of the ATI, the last post of that thread had links to a site dedicated to the ATI. The link is below, courtesy of McG1967

http://www.competitionrx.com/BA-AA-IB-Alliance-Trustee.php

[Edited 2010-08-26 15:42:11 by srbmod]

User currently offlineqqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2272 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (3 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 17908 times:

IIRC, the slots aren't "free." While AA/BA were required to divest four slot pairs, they can still sell them for the current market rate. DL will still have to pay for those slots, and they'll have to use them according to the conditions of the JV approval.


The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
25 RL757PVD : I thought it had been covered in previous threads that there is no room for Customs in Terminal A?
26 Post contains images commavia : "Double heart attacks?" I highly doubt that. Why not try both, and if/when one or both fails, just dump it? Doubt it. AA and US would flip out - they
27 MaverickM11 : Well, to be fair, DL has no feed on either end with the exception of BOS, so it will be very difficult at best. But I think this is a play for slots
28 catiii : Huh? They don't interline with either of those carriers to my knowledge. And further, it's apples and oranges when it comes to service. Finally, B6 a
29 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : I believe as proposed it's double 767-300ER's daily. Still not 4 744's, but still... I was wondering........... -Dave
30 LDVAviation : If it is a play for slots, then, perhaps someone should tell Delta that after 10 years the slots revert back to AA/BA. I don't see AA/BA selling the
31 DL WIDGET HEAD : I agree with all of your points but I just wanted to point out that the article mentioned 2 763ER's from BOS and 1 763ER from MIA. Still, not 744's a
32 ba319-131 : - DL's J product, on the 764 fleet is very good, in fact I'd prefer them over VS based on my last experiences with both carriers. Interesting DL move
33 MoMan : DL has a great opportunity to grow in South Florida. I have been flying DL more and more ex-MIA because it's just easier. Easier to check in, get thro
34 deltal1011man : i don't believe MASSport will pay for FIS in A, now if Delta wants to pay for all, maybe most of it, then i don't think MASSport will say anything, D
35 enilria : Second in the same way RC Cola is the 3rd largest Cola drink. The fall off to DL or RC Cola from AA or Pepsi is gigantic. I don't think they are on t
36 LAXdude1023 : I dont think DL is going after AA at all. If you take a step back and think about it, what they really want is more ATL/JFK-LHR. They dont really car
37 catiii : Ha, my apologies. I stand corrected.
38 Post contains links VS11 : Today is the deadline for the start of the application process. I guess if we don't hear about US or other carriers applying, it will be DL getting th
39 MAH4546 : I'm surprised that Delta is going to go after the slots from the AA/BA pool, rather than just use them from its own pool of SkyTeam slots. Other than
40 FlyPNS1 : Precisely. DL couldn't care less about MIA in the long-run, though the one little benefit on the side is that they can inflict a little pain on AA by
41 deltal1011man : I do. Money talks, if Delta wants to pay a bunch for locked in slots then i bet they sell them to them, if the lease them.....well worry about it in
42 Luftfahrer : Interesting move, but why do they plan on using the rather uncompetitive, oldish B767-300/ER aircraft? Granted, the fleet-wide refurbishment won't be
43 MoMan : AA commonly flies a 767 on the LHR-MIA market either 1 or 2x daily. The DL bizElite product is way ahead of AA J on the 763. Coach service is more or
44 deltal1011man : Thank you for having the answer but i do have one question about it. This--- makes it sound like today is the deadline.....if so then how would one w
45 bospatriot : Curious why VS would not pull a 744 or 346 out of storage to get another LHR slot. They did operate 2x BOS-LHR at one time. Plus there is alot of expa
46 MAH4546 : That's the deadline to launch services in for 2011 IATA summer timetable. Also, Delta must first exhaust other methods of finding the slots. So, it h
47 deltal1011man : ahh ok. I can see how that works that way. Thanks.
48 OA412 : I know what you mean, and we all obviously know that AA offers more international flights from Florida than any other US carrier, but you know market
49 deltal1011man : If it doesn't have the Lie-flats then no chance. I am kinda expecting a sub fleet of lie-flat 763s now though. 4 new LHR flights and they could do a
50 panamair : Pan Am got MIA-LHR from the National merger. I can't remember the exact chronology but wasn't EA in it at one point (not to LHR, but to LGW)?
51 MAH4546 : Correct. Pan Am, National, Eastern, Delta, Continental and United have all flown it. But under Bermuda II, only two British carriers and one U.S. car
52 TOMMY767 : AA's coach repertoire on this route isn't much better. Beg the differ on that one. Regardless of what DL decides to do in the future, BA/AA own MIA-L
53 catiii : Typing this on gogo wifi as we descend into ATL, so I'll try and be quick: Let's see: DL tried to pull JAL away from OW and into Skyteam. In doing so
54 panamair : Depends on how they allocate the seven 76Ts (that will have flat-beds by next summer). Obviously JFK-CAI and JFK-AMM will take up about 3 - 3.5 aircr
55 LHRFlyer : I didn't see this coming. Kudos to DL for going for it. I think the loser from this is actually Virgin which is becoming more isolated.
56 fun2fly : US BOS maybe. PHX for one of the other slots? If not now, never I'd guess. CO BOS - low risk with a 752 and they'd probably get 1/2 slots w/the other
57 VS11 : More likely, the loser is BA as the VS J-class product is more competitively priced. DL will get the cheaper-fare economy pax that would otherwise fl
58 peanuts : If true, that could explain why DL did not go for DFW-LHR for now also. So maybe I shouldn't read too much into it and DL genuinely wants to compete
59 Squid : Good for Delta to grap more LHR service, but I don't understand why US Airways didn't jump into the mix. US stands just as good a chance in BOS as DL.
60 OA412 : Yes EA did fly MIA-LGW for years before they shut down, but I could have sworn that PA and NA both flew MIA-LHR simultaneously for a time. However, w
61 deltal1011man : like what? its not like AA has 6-7-8 slots and they can run Delta out of town. AA didn't put any money into JL, JL came out and said that who ever th
62 catiii : ON a side note, did Air Florida ever serve London from MIA?
63 airbazar : They're not free but they won't be at current market rate either because the slots are not on the free market. They are for specific routes and only
64 catiii : They, along with the other OW partners, put together a financing package of $1.4 billion for JAL. After they chose OW and the $1.4 billion, ETIC even
65 GlobalCabotage : I don't AA Management is having a heart attack over this. AA / BA had to relinquish slots to get ATI. BOS is not what it used to be for AA. MIA is imp
66 MAH4546 : Under an interline, yes, the baggage rules of the international-sector carrier apply under IATA. But JetBlue only interlines with select carriers (AA
67 LAXdude1023 : An exaggeration just to make your point. Its a market that could easily handle two airlines without an alliance.
68 OA412 : Yes. Over the years, it looks like they flew to LGW, AMS, BRU, and MAD.
69 panamair : Actually, BA will only get stronger now with the AA ATI/JV. VS is on the losing end though....A relatively new entrant, Delta, is already quietly cat
70 TOMMY767 : They'll do something like triple advantage miles on MIA-LHR or price incentives to fly in their J cabin the 777.
71 OA412 : IMHO, the clock is ticking on VS. Branson spent years and years fighting against opening up LHR in order to preserve the status quo and keep fares ar
72 VS11 : That's what may appear on the surface but you are assuming that all AA pax will automatically start flying BA. Some of them will surely do but keep i
73 vin2basketball : Gasp... AA only has 1x 777 on this route. What's the difference. I think that DL has a shot at making both work, though they could downgrade to 752s
74 incitatus : No need to be nice. DL has no chance of making either route work as proposed. Maybe a single 757 on BOS-LHR, but that is it. DL's memory is so short-
75 MAH4546 : Delta has no choice in this case. These particular slots are for BOS/MIA-LHR, and if they are not used on those routes, back to AA/BA/IB they go. The
76 catiii : I guess my point is though that it isn't a viable codesharing option at FLL, with the reason being that the premium business traveler that you would
77 GlobalCabotage : As MAH said, DFW-London is a relatively small O&D market. BA has struggled for years and could not make the route work until it shifted from LGW t
78 flymia : It wont surprise me if this route is successful for DL to maybe put a bit more focus into MIA. LAX, AMS, a latin american destination or two. For most
79 LDVAviation : Three slot pairs, at peak transatlantic arrival and departure times, have an inordinate value to BA in the longterm (10 years). It is not going to se
80 LAXdude1023 : Its small compared to the places like ORD, SFO, LAX, BOS, etc. Its still large enough to support two carriers. Remember, BA couldnt even keep JFK-LGW
81 Post contains links AirFrance744 : Just one more link to add. http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2010/08/delta_air_lines.html
82 Post contains images commavia : I doubt it. The money required by Delta to convince AA/BA to sell them precious LHR slots is more than Delta could afford. Either way, it doesn't mat
83 VS11 : Delta has every chance to make BOS work (I am not familiar with the MIA market so I won't comment there). In fact, any airline getting the slots has
84 ScottB : If memory serves, Massport was willing to go along with the idea of an FIS in Terminal B which would have part of an extension of the AA side to meet
85 GlobalCabotage : Who else could make DFW-LHR work? Regarding other DFW flights, KL is getting better loads this summer, but the yields are not up to par with AA and LH
86 VS11 : I don't want to turn this thread into a VS strategy discussion but will only say that while it is true that alliances and particularly AA/BA pose a s
87 GlobalCabotage : VS needs to join an alliance! If they were to join *, ORD becomes much stronger and brings DEN to the table (I think VS could make this work with UA t
88 VS11 : They realize that. Alliances are not new and joining or not one is not something that is out of the blue for them.
89 Post contains images EddieDude : Well, I agree with many who have said before that DL's MIA-LHR will be aimed at O&D rather than connecting passengers. I guess DL could get some
90 DeltAirlines : The plan is for the 767-300s to get the same BizElite seats as the 767-400s; I can't remember if it was starting next year or in 2012. This might cha
91 ChrisNH : The press release says of both routes, 'If approved.' What's the chances of that happening...less than 5%?
92 GlobalCabotage : The press release says of both routes, 'If approved.' What's the chances of that happening...less than 5%? Much higher than 5%. AA/BA had to give up s
93 luckyone : Couple questions: Are you confusing ACC with Lagos? As far as I'm aware Accra has always been a 767, and a quick reference to the Delta timetable show
94 laca773 : I was surprised to not see SEA-LHR re-introduced yet but then again, as we know, these slots are route specific and they can not just turn around and
95 Post contains images iliribdl : I want BDL-LHR. lol
96 N62NA : Yes, but in the (recent) past, they have run the 2nd MIA-LHR using the 763.
97 EddieDude : Awesome. Thanks! Very sensible. I agree.
98 DeltAirlines : Would not shock me in the least, especially since some of the new ATL/DTW to Heathrow flying will be done by the 767-300 as well. That will be four t
99 MoMan : I remember last year the second daily (8:30 PM ish) was a 767, not sure if that remains the same or not.
100 deltal1011man : LOS is a 777 ACC is a 332 but goes to 76T soon. Its due to the lie-flats.
101 VS11 : How fundamental is the difference between the two types in terms of number of seats and on-board product? I really have not been following DL too clo
102 ChrisNH : Thanks! I worded my question wrong. I was suggesting that the chances for approval would be >95%, so that's excellent.
103 jfk777 : Wow, Delta wants to be a full player at LHR. First JFK and ATL then MSP and DTW now Boston and Miami. In Boston DL has tons of FF with a large presenc
104 NWBOS : Also don't forget Massport is itching to get nonstop Asia service, so if DL's BOS-NRT plans can ever come together, maybe a stronger argument can be
105 Cubsrule : What makes you think that DL would start BOS-NRT before UA/NH or AA/JL?
106 Post contains images BOACCunard : Again DL proves itself to be the most aggressive US legacy. It's interesting to note that DL has flown both BOS-LGW and MIA-LGW in the past, but it sh
107 Post contains images ChrisNH : That's the question I would ask, because no one is going to fly Boston-Asia on anything bigger than a 787, and All Nippon gets them first. As an asid
108 BOACCunard : HU was going to fly BOS-NRT? Or do you mean the first to fly to Asia? I assume if HU was going to fly to BOS it would be from PEK, though I don't rec
109 B752OS : A year and a half ago or so, both Governor Deval Patrick and the illustrious Mayor Menino claimed that non-stop BOS-PEK was coming. Following a trade
110 EddieDude : I guess OK and RO could feed DL passengers from Czech Republic and Romania at LHR, but it makes more sense for those SkyTeam passengers to fly to MIA
111 LipeGIG : Agree, but BOS will depend on the product AA decides to use to defend its position. They could just begin to deploy the 772 just to protect their mar
112 BOACCunard : Yes, I referred to it as "flirting" because to me it is a relationship in the early stages. An interline agreement barely qualifies as a partnership.
113 Post contains images catiii : Ha, I guess I completely forgot about that. Poor Tom. He also, in a list of (his words) "ionic" sports moments in Boston, touted "Varitek splitting t
114 EddieDude : Don't they offer to their respective customers mileage accrual and redemption benefits as well?
115 OA412 : Of course they have... You're comparing apples to oranges. AF's LAX-LHR flight was a US-London flight flown by a non-UK carrier, this is a US carrier
116 njdevilsin03 : Boo...and finally I thought FLL was gonna be given a chance by Delta. Oh well, guess FLL will just have to keep waiting for that non charter or fly by
117 MAH4546 : Delta's size at FLL has long since faltered. Delta now has more capacity on MIA-JFK, for example, than FLL-JFK. It is a strong #2 at FLL, but is now
118 njdevilsin03 : Still holding out hope that once UA/CO happens that UA will realize CO has plenty of gate space and a Presidents club at the FLL terminal along with G
119 premobrimo : Where is Delta getting the extra aircraft from? Do I see them ending CVG-CDG service to do this??
120 Post contains images Centre : If anything, it got worse... IMO, LHR-BOS should also include a Star Alliance member flying there (BD in this case, at leas a much better service tha
121 apodino : I am reading the thread, and one thing I am surprised no one has brought up is the fact that DL tried BOS-London a few years ago, and the route floppe
122 Post contains images UAL777UK : Yup. I started a thread about a week ago about when we might see a Star carrier on the LHR-BOS route. I guess the answer is pretty much "not for a lo
123 mikey72 : Damn waste of LHR slots in my opinion. More needless duplication at one of the worlds most congested airports. Where's the common sense ? 757's from L
124 ChopChop767 : It's great to see a US airline actively trying to add international destinations, but DL at BOS to LHR? I think most on the forum are of the opinion t
125 nclmedic : Do these aircraft have the new J cabin onboard? I thought the whole of flying the 764's into LHR was to have a uniform operation with the same modern
126 ChrisNH : Yes, I worry the same about this. However, as others have said, this seems to be more of a defensive ploy (i.e. the 'use-it-or-lose-it' slots) than a
127 jfk777 : AA is doing something to improve its Business Class on their 767's which should be decent for BOS. When AA flew the 777 from BOS to LHR it was primar
128 LAXdude1023 : No one else is going to fly DFW-LHR. Thats not the issue. But its not a very, very small O&D either. Its large enough to support two carriers (AA
129 airbazar : I don't think you can squeeze an A333 in any of the gates of the main terminal let alone an AF 744, so if they were to do it it would be in the Satel
130 flymia : I dont think it will impact it much. Most people flying MIA-LHR just do it non-stop its almost always cheaper and with 3 (soon to be 4) airlines to c
131 DAL767400ER : CVG-CDG is not gonna end. They still have AF at one end and Procter&Gamble on the other end to fill the flight. As for where the aircraft will co
132 usairways85 : With ATI, AA/BA are essentially one. Hasn't MAH hinted that AA will probably drop the route and let BA fly 3-4 daily 772/744's?
133 deltal1011man : I don't think they will.......you want to get to TYO on Delta from BOS, go via JFK. But Delta only send 76Ds to LHR. the 76Cs do other routes around
134 jfklganyc : Doesn't CO fly 757s from EWR-LHR?
135 incitatus : The distinction is very thin. DL is also big at LAX, a fact many folks like to remind everybody in a.net, but it is quickly forgotten when it fits th
136 WA707atMSP : There have been a number of postings in this thread "when did airline xx fly Miami-London"? Here's the history: 1970: First MIA-LHR nonstops. Route aw
137 deltal1011man : Yes, by the end of the year it will be 4x 757 1x 777. Nope i expect it. 1) whats it like to know what routes will and wont make money? that must be p
138 B752OS : Not just MAH has said this, many others have as well. Makes sense for BA to run BOS-LHR 4x daily and let AA leave the market.
139 LHCVG : That seems reasonable. Does anyone have numbers for the relative value of these LHR slots relative to DL's prospects? In other words, this seems like
140 mikey72 : Yeah sorry, my mistake. AA uses them though but like others have said BA will prob take over BOS after ATI.
141 VS11 : Why would BA want to run 4 daily flights to Boston? Their current schedule is pretty convenient. 3 flights is perfect for them to optimize their yiel
142 LHCVG : Dominate the market -- as you say, 3 flights is probably right-sized for the market without depressing yields, but they might just want to cast thems
143 airborne1 : why not United asking LHR-MIA.. They could connect from BMI in LHR to Miami and to TAM from Miami They have a flight attendant base in LHR.. so why no
144 incitatus : Why not? Look at it in the other direction: I can even see a 5-frequency schedule: 8am, 10am, 1pm, 4pm and 7pm.
145 MAH4546 : Absolutely nothing is "forgetten." Delta is weak in Los Angeles-originating traffic - a lot of the traffic is Los Angeles terminating. Also, especial
146 ScottB : Actually, I believe the two gates at the center of the main terminal (A6/A7) can accommodate the 777 (and have on occasion for CO diversions). It wou
147 usairways85 : There are currently 6x flights on BOS-LHR between AA/BA. AA/BA will want to offer a similar capacity but to reduce costs and realize opportunities el
148 jfk777 : Which is the biggest single route from teh Miami International Airport ? Answer( it doesn't speak Spanish) The Queen's English is spoken in there. LO
149 LDVAviation : Delta is not getting anything for free. It has applied to the the relevant public authorities for the slots. This is a mere formality under the terms
150 LHCVG : Thanks for the info there LDV. My general intent was to ask more if this is a case of spending money (on the slots) to make money (on the potentially
151 Post contains images airbazar : And where do they define the meaning of "reasonable"? Make no mistake, DL is applying for these slots. They'd have no interest in obtaining existing
152 LDVAviation : The "slots" will be held in trust. The trustee will oversee the entire process of awarding and managing the slots. The judgement of the trustee will
153 Cubsrule : At what times to the ATRs operate LHR-CDG?
154 deltal1011man : CDG-LHR 1410-1440 CDG-LHR 2045-2115 LHR-CDG 0825-1055 LHR-CDG 1635-1905
155 apodino : Part of the problem with your logic is the fact that BA and AA are still operating out of separate terminals in BOS. While this is not a problem for
156 Cubsrule : DL and AF seem to be managing having AF operate all flights at JFK, don't they? And who is going to connect at BOS anyway?
157 airbazar : A lot. On any given day, up to 30% of international passengers in BOS are connecting. BOS is not a huge connencting hub but LH/BA/AF all do a signifi
158 Cubsrule : Yes - but how much of it is intra-alliance? With each alliance having large hubs nearby, I suspect not much.
159 EricR : I suspect this problem will be fixed over time. The ATI was just approved.[Edited 2010-08-28 20:09:10]
160 apodino : Don't be so fast on this. DL originally wanted Terminal A to be a SkyTeam terminal with all the SkyTeam airlines. AF was handled in C by DL, but righ
161 airbazar : If it's not intea-alliance then what would it be? Of course it is intra-alliance. Someone once posted here that LH transfers on average 20% of passen
162 jfk777 : Boston-Logan reminds me a bit of LAX and JFK on a smaller scale with 5 terminals (A-E). BOS has a huge amount of international flights to Europe but
163 airbazar : You're comparing Apples and Oranges when you're comparing BOS's international volume with the 2 largest international gateways in the country. The re
164 Cubsrule : I'd expect that the two largest 'suppliers' of traffic to the international carriers are US and B6 and that DL and AA supply somewhat less traffic, b
165 jfk777 : USair doesn't have international flights from Boston. DL and AA have a few daily European flights. JFK is nearly a ghost town all morning, nothing un
166 NYCAdvantage : You maybe right, there is an old say "one thing is to call the devil and another one is to see him arrive" in other words since Delta is opening in s
167 Cubsrule : I think you misread my post (maybe I wasn't clear enough) - I was talking about which domestic airline those passengers that connect to the likes of
168 apodino : Except that they did eventually say no to AA when AA and US both tried to build a joint facility in B. This is not true. US currently serves CUN, AUA
169 FutureUScapt : Yes, it is true. US ended all of its seasonal BOS-Caribbean flights in May and has no plans to bring them back for the winter. BOS-CUN is flown perio
170 jfk777 : Massport wants a full terminal E, great but its a logistical headache for DL to tow an A330 all the way to TA as it is for AA to tow a 767 to TB. Now
171 mikey72 : Who's running Boston anyway ? Love the place but it's been a building site for years. Have they completed the underground transport system yet ? If th
172 LJ : As of Winter 2010-2011 there will be none. AF will operate 1 daily less then during Summer 2010. This flight moves to KL as KL and BA are battling ov
173 airbazar : I don't. I'm just relaying what's been said on this forum by someone who claims to have the numbers: AA feeds a good amount of pax to BA and US likew
174 B752OS : Massport runs BOS. There is no underground transport system. The airport is connected via the Silver Line (which is BRT) to downtown and the Blue Lin
175 jcarv : Why does everyone blame Massport for FIS only in Terminal E? Ever think it's USCBP that wants one facility? USCBP station are difficult people in BOS.
176 jfk777 : Towing a plane from DL's terminal 3 at JFK to a remote stand 500 yards away by T4 is far different then towing an A330 from BOS terminal E to Termina
177 Post contains images airbazar : Have you been to terminals A or B? You may as well raise it and rebuild it to do what you're suggesting. There are Federal rules that require all inb
178 EricR : My comment was directed more towards the sharing of facilities in general since you also referenced ORD and JFK in your earlier reply. I agree BOS wi
179 airbazar : I'd be surprised if they don't stay as seasonal Winter routes. The market is just too important for US to dump. Unlike AA, US doesn't have 2 convenie
180 EricR : Unfortunately no. US announced several months ago that it will end point to point flying with the exception of the Shuttle routes and flights to DCA.
181 MAH4546 : Obviously they are not that important. US Airways already dumped the routes - there is no more Caribbean flying for US Airways from Boston sans Cancu
182 Post contains images airbazar : Well, they're not exactly low yield routes that's why. Mostly due to people up here owning timeshares and vacation homes in those destinations which
183 jr : If only DL still had the DFW hub, it would have been interesting. Just flew on KLM669 from AMS to DFW this past Sunday. The flight was probably about
184 RobertS975 : VS flights used to earn DL status miles. The arrangement was rather short-lived... couple of years at most.
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