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Why Did United Pull Ted?  
User currently offlineGoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5382 times:

I'm pretty sure I missed this discussion somewhere along the line so let me know if I did. I used to fly TED all the time out of TPA but then it just mysteriously disappeared. When and Why?

Thanks in advance.


From the airport with love
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2812 posts, RR: 33
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5341 times:

It was around 2007 or late 2006 when they dumped Ted.

Why? I don't know. My best guess is it just wasn't making money. What they did was replaced the higher fare seats up front with all coach, or mostly coach. The rest of the cost structure was the same as United crews flew it and handled it. They were banking on the extra lower fare seats making up for the loss of the higher fare seats.



No info
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7337 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5310 times:

That's easy. UA's biggest advantage vs. the LCCs is their loyal frequent fliers which equate to higher average fares and a better mix of business to leisure. What keeps frequent fliers loyal is largely the chase for the elusive upgrade. When UA pulled F class off those planes is took away their primary advantage against the LCCs and lowered UA to their level. Since they dumped Ted in DEN their fare advantage has skyrocketed a lot more than the loss of a few seats.

I think Ted did spawn Economy Plus and that was its one gift to the world.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6793 posts, RR: 32
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5258 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
I think Ted did spawn Economy Plus and that was its one gift to the world.

Economy Plus existed long before Ted.

Quoting enilria (Reply 2):
UA's biggest advantage vs. the LCCs is their loyal frequent fliers which equate to higher average fares and a better mix of business to leisure. What keeps frequent fliers loyal is largely the chase for the elusive upgrade.

Basically United's strategy of the last several years has been to move upmarket where possible and stop chasing after deeply discounted traffic, since their cost structure basically didn't work at WN/F9 fares. I think they learned that they weren't going to be able to push LCC's out of their markets, so they would have to coexist.


User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 605 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5227 times:

No need for this. There has not been one airline within an airline to suceed. Ted, CO Light, DL Express, AA sub-fleets, etc. have all failed. Be a LCC or premium carrier! The hybrid model has not worked in the States.

User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8142 posts, RR: 54
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5142 times:

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Reply 4):

No need for this. There has not been one airline within an airline to suceed. Ted, CO Light, DL Express, AA sub-fleets, etc. have all failed. Be a LCC or premium carrier! The hybrid model has not worked in the States.

Interesting. Delta even had two ill-fated attempts - Delta Express with some smokey old 737-200s, and Song with the 757-200s.

On the other hand, British Airways created a likeable and stylish airline, Go, which made money and was sold to 3M for a profit. What did BA do that Ted, CO Lite, Song did not?



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User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 605 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5115 times:

Forgot about Song! And to think I did my internship at DL (of course, this was well before Express and Song). At least DL took my advice and made DL 207 ORD-MCO a 757! But that was years ago (20).

User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4961 times:

Quoting Goblin211 (Thread starter):
Why?

Regardless of what anyone might say here, the main reason that Ted is dead is because they were retiring the 737 fleet and needed the airbus's to make the mainline fleet plan work.

Ted was successful in its main objective, lowering CASM on low RASM routes.

-m

  


User currently offlineFlying_727 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 437 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4868 times:

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 1):
It was around 2007 or late 2006 when they dumped Ted.

You're a little off on your time line. United made the wise choice to end Ted on June 4, 2008 and it officially ceased operations on January 6, 2009.

flying_727



On ATA, You're On Vacation
User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2812 posts, RR: 33
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4747 times:

Quoting Flying_727 (Reply 8):
You're a little off on your time line. United made the wise choice to end Ted on June 4, 2008 and it officially ceased operations on January 6, 2009.

Seems like it's been longer, but you would be correct.



No info
User currently onlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8580 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4713 times:
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Quoting GlobalCabotage (Reply 4):
There has not been one airline within an airline to suceed

Qantas seem to consider their subsidiary Jetstar to be a success



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4713 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 5):
On the other hand, British Airways created a likeable and stylish airline, Go, which made money and was sold to 3M for a profit. What did BA do that Ted, CO Lite, Song did not?

Someone please correct me if i'm wrong but Go Fly was a true subsidiary. DL/CO/UA's "LCCs" were LCCs by offering and name only. They were operated by mainline pilots, a/c (all pulled from the mainline fleet btw) were fixed by mainline mechanics-staffed by mainline F/As although it was a separate bid process from what I could remember with SONG.

Go was truly its own company and could realize the savings as an up-start vice a legacy carrier.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25741 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4683 times:

Ted died when UA decided to retire its 737 fleet, and the Ted A320s were needed to backfill on mainline flying.

Simple as that.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4668 times:

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 7):
the main reason that Ted is dead is because they were retiring the 737 fleet and needed the airbus's to make the mainline fleet plan work.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
Ted died when UA decided to retire its 737 fleet, and the Ted A320s were needed to backfill on mainline flying.

Thanks for the backup Bro

-m

  


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8481 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4654 times:

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 1):
The rest of the cost structure was the same as United crews flew it and handled it.

That in a nutshell is why TED failed. They went after the low fare customers that the LCC's were stealing away but maintained the high mainline cost structure.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25414 posts, RR: 86
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4629 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
Ted died when UA decided to retire its 737 fleet, and the Ted A320s were needed to backfill on mainline flying.

Which came first - the chicken or the egg? If Ted had been a raging success, they would have found a way to keep it.

Ted failed at one of its prime objectives - to stop the erosion of market share to the LCC's and especially at DEN.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/new...nited-may-eliminate-ted-more-jobs/

RMN: "United's presence at Denver International Airport has slowly eroded over the past decade, although it still captures about 50 percent of the market. It recently announced plans to cut about five percent of its departures in Denver as part of a larger reduction in capacity."

The original Ted - Starfish - devised by McKinsey and Co was intended to have a fleet of 200 aircraft. That was scaled back even before Ted began, but even so, the Ted fleet never even reached half that number.

mariner

[Edited 2010-08-26 18:22:17]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1465 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4591 times:

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Reply 4):
Ted, CO Light, DL Express, AA sub-fleets,

Add MetroJet and Shuttle by United to the list of failed attempts.


User currently offlineWROORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 958 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4543 times:

TED was supposed to be a leisure carrier, but as economy tank so did TED. They were too slow to start, initially with a handful of routes from DEN. In Chicago they could not decide between MDW and ORD. I flew with TED a few times and they had nothing extra to offer (besides planes being all economy). JetBlue had Sattv, WN snacks and virtually no extra fees, Spirit ticket starting at $8 one way - TED had 'uni' missing in its name and that was it, the rest was still the old UA.

User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6573 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4437 times:

I wouldn't consider Song a complete failure, as it basically pioneered new concepts for Delta, including leather seats, zone boarding, and AVOD. However, what killed Song was that it was costing Delta lots of money to run an airline within an airline. Delta officially doesn't consider Song to be a failure.

[Edited 2010-08-26 19:07:38]


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User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3108 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4407 times:

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Reply 4):
No need for this. There has not been one airline within an airline to suceed. Ted, CO Light, DL Express, AA sub-fleets, etc. have all failed. Be a LCC or premium carrier! The hybrid model has not worked in the States.

I'd consider P.S. to be an airline within an airline.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineazstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4345 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
Ted died when UA decided to retire its 737 fleet, and the Ted A320s were needed to backfill on mainline flying

TED didn't fly 737's. TED''s predecessor, Shuttle by United ,did and that enterprise failed also. Shuttle by United was an attempt to compete with Southwest (they flew California-Arizona flights, and intra-California among other WN routes) and TED was an attempt to compete with Frontier in Denver (remember they were on the A concourse right in the middle of F9's gates there).


User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2473 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4286 times:
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Quoting azstar (Reply 20):
TED didn't fly 737's

He didn't say they did. Just that the TED A320s were needed to replace the departing UA mainline 737s.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlinegweilo88 From Hong Kong, joined May 2009, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4125 times:

They may have succeeded in filling the seats with people paying $99 if that was their goal.

But before TED I was making 5 to 8 either roundtrips or RTW from Hong Kong to USA on UA in paid business class. My company was generously paying minimum $4000 per ticket, usually more. I usually had stops in LAS, PHX, FLL among other cities. LAS, PHX and FLL became TED stations.

The first time I flew TED, the gate agent in Hong Kong couldn't understand why she could not give me a boarding pass in F for the SFO-PHX leg of my ticket and told me to check when I arrived in SFO to get a new seat assignment. I guess it was one of the first days of TED and the agents in Hong Kong had not experienced it yet. Arriving in SFO they explained about TED and that with my paid biz class ticket I would be entitled to have E+.

I can accept having an domestic E seat on an international biz class ticket to go on a regional plane to a small city like maybe Bismark for example. But it is unacceptable to have that kind of service to major cities, regardless if they want to call it a leisure destination.

After that when I had to go to any of those cities, I bought the $5000 trans pac tickets on CX, KE, SQ, NH and TG instead of UA, as those airlines could include a domestic F segment on other domestic airlines. If I wasn't stopping at a TED destination, then I often stayed with UA.

I had been a UA 1K for many years before that and I was able to keep my 1K status by still flying *A to other destinations when possible. But I am sure they lost a lot of loyal premium customers from here to CX or other airlines who then became loyal to their new airline and never went back to UA. In fact I know a couple of people here who were UA gold or 1K before and have been CX Diamond ever since the first time they got put in TED E on an international C ticket.

Since I am still 1K, I went back to UA as soon as put the F back onto those routes, but most of the people I know are happy since changing to CX biz class to USA with AA domestic. UA won't get those customers back ever.


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