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Dead Body In Aircraft Toilet  
User currently offlinemuhamed From Malaysia, joined Aug 2010, 32 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 4 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 18182 times:

http://www.mmail.com.my/content/45322-mas-crew-grounded

Does the cabin crew need to do a headcount of all passengers to be at their seats before landing? How about during disembarking?

Is the aircraft captain to be the responsible party in this case? But throughout the flight the pilot never stepped out of the cockpit. Is it still his responsibility? And since 9/11 The cockpit rules have gotten much stricter no?


There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all.
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13206 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 17870 times:

The comments as to this story are very interesting too. Apparently this was an Australian national, probably an addict as a syrnge was found. This also leads to major questions as to how he got a syrnge on board, as well as possible illegal drugs, especially as to an airlline and destination country with dranconian drug laws. Clearly the cabin crew was not doing their job, but comments to the article suggests some serious differences between management and all crew members throughout the airlnes that may have led to some sloppyness in their duties.

User currently offlinebabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 4 days ago) and read 17530 times:

You don't need to do a headcount before landing. What got on must still be there to get off.

It is normal,as far as I know, to open all the toilet doors to ensure no one is sitting there.


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 17354 times:

The last paragraph of the story states that the crew is to check the cabin and the lavatories after all passengers have disembarked. But at the beginning of the article it stated that the man was found in the toilet. Maybe the toilet lid was down and the crew didn't see him in the toilet when they checked the lavatory.

User currently offlinemuhamed From Malaysia, joined Aug 2010, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 17191 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 3):
Maybe the toilet lid was down and the crew didn't see him in the toilet when they checked the lavatory.

Sorry for the lousy journalism of my countrymen. English isn't our mother tongue but as journalists they should have checked. Most embarrassing indeed. What they meant by toilet is lavatory hence the reason they say the cabin crew did a major cock up.

[Edited 2010-08-27 06:06:47]


There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all.
User currently offlinemuhamed From Malaysia, joined Aug 2010, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 17148 times:

Quoting babybus (Reply 2):
What got on must still be there to get off.

Errr... actually I meant approach for landing. When the crew walk along the aisle to check everyone got their seat upright & seatbelts fastened. Sorry I didn't make it clearer.



There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all.
User currently offlinemuhamed From Malaysia, joined Aug 2010, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 17049 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 1):
This also leads to major questions as to how he got a syrnge on board, as well as possible illegal drugs, especially as to an airlline and destination country with dranconian drug laws.

He is on transit and I suspect he was betting that the checks on transit passenger won't be as stringent and passengers disembarking. Either that or he didn't know Malaysia has a death penalty for drug possession above certain quantities.



There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all.
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 16597 times:

Quoting babybus (Reply 2):
What got on must still be there to get off.

Well.....not always. There is the case of the legendary DB Cooper.


User currently offlineiairallie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 16503 times:

Quoting muhamed (Thread starter):
Does the cabin crew need to do a headcount of all passengers to be at their seats before landing? How about during disembarking?

No, but we should be checking the lavs before landing to make sure they are unoccupied.

Quoting muhamed (Reply 5):
When the crew walk along the aisle to check everyone got their seat upright & seatbelts fastened

No count and it is usually not possible to know if everyone is in their seats people move inflight to other sections etc. Occasionally it is obvious that someone is not seated like on a full flight.


User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7558 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 16341 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 3):
The last paragraph of the story states that the crew is to check the cabin and the lavatories after all passengers have disembarked. But at the beginning of the article it stated that the man was found in the toilet. Maybe the toilet lid was down and the crew didn't see him in the toilet when they checked the lavatory.
Quoting muhamed (Reply 4):
Sorry for the lousy journalism of my countrymen. English isn't our mother tongue but as journalists they should have checked. Most embarrassing indeed. What they meant by toilet is lavatory hence the reason they say the cabin crew did a major cock up.

Okay, that would explain it. When I first opened this thread, I thought it would be like a recent CSI: Miami episode that DID INDEED involve finding a dead body in an aircraft toilet.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineArmchairAnalyst From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 16235 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 1):
probably an addict as a syrnge was found.

Not necessarily; the passenger could have been a diabetic.


User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15954 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 1):
This also leads to major questions as to how he got a syrnge on board,

I always carry a syringe in my carry-on luggage, an epi-pen, because I am allergic to bees. Security has never asked to take it out to examine it and I have never noticed anything that says it is forbidden.


User currently offlineTravellerPlus From New Zealand, joined Nov 2008, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 15237 times:

I'm going to have a rant here. No one seems to have taken the time to acknowledge that it is both a tragic loss of life for the deceased's family and it must have been an awful discovery for the cleaning crew. It's almost like cleaning staff are expected to find bodies as a normal part of their job. Indeed, depending on the how the man died, there is a high likelyhood of bodily explusions. It would have been a shocking and stomach churning discovery.

Cleaning staff are hard working people who perform a thankless task, often in the middle of the night when the aircraft and the rest of the world are "sleeping". It makes me sad that support for these staff seems to be missing. When a cabin crew member found a body in the lavatory during a flight people were quick to acknowledge how awful it was for them.

The posts so far have been a poor reflection of the status of cleaning staff and alleged drug users in our society.

I'm sure that Malaysia Airlines, or which ever company employs them, offers the cleaning staff the support they need. If the man has was a dug addict, I hope that he has finally found the peace which he was missing in his life.



What goes around comes around....unless your luggage is not on the carousel...
User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1684 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 12358 times:

Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 12):
No one seems to have taken the time to acknowledge that it is both a tragic loss of life for the deceased's family and it must have been an awful discovery for the cleaning crew.

An excellent post, TravellerPlus. You have my total respect.

Condolences to everyone involved in this tragic, unfortunate event.



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineaa43e From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9669 times:

Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 12):
The posts so far have been a poor reflection of the status of cleaning staff

I disagree. They are a non issue in this story so no gratuitous acknowlegement need be made. No one disputes they are hard working or that it may be a tragedy for the deceases family. But I for one get tired of the line of RIP's and such when the persons to whom those sentiments might rightfully be directed to wont in all liklihood ever receive them. They seem to be a an attempt to make oneself seem caring and compassionate in the eyes of others. You know if you are or arren't truly compassionate so why do you have to wave your bleeding heart flag for the world to see. So, I can draw the conclusion that no comment was made because it was not a pertinent part of the story......Nothing personal mind you.
  


User currently offlineJetsa From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9293 times:

Quoting aa43e (Reply 14):

Precisely, exactly what i was thinking


User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8380 times:

The use of language in the article is a little odd. It implies that the body was found in the toilet, but obviously the passenger did an Elvis and died sitting on the toilet. It is in the same category as the UAX flight that left a sleeping passenger on the plane after the last flight of the day.

User currently offlinekurbitur From Iceland, joined May 2010, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8364 times:

Is that the reason all diabetics travel by trains or ship? because syringes are not allowed in-flight

You can not bring a knife on board but you will be using a knife when eating your meal  Wow!


User currently offlineiairallie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7746 times:

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 16):
The use of language in the article is a little odd. It implies that the body was found in the toilet, but obviously the passenger did an Elvis and died sitting on the toilet

As was explained earlier toilet refers to the entire lavatory not just the commode in British talk.


User currently onlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13206 posts, RR: 16
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7618 times:

There is no doubt that the cleaing crew had to deal with a horrible situation, we are not miminising the trauma of that. We have seen here and elsewhere of how cleaning crews have found stillborn children/fetues and even living newborns in toilets. I do hope they are given appropiate counsuling. We are mostly critical of the cabin crew that somehow failed to do their duty.

User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3702 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 3 days ago) and read 5077 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 11):
an epi-pen

I have an epi-pen myself for a condition I have and have never been question by airport security. However, I don't think heroin (or any other illegal drug) comes in an epi-pen.

Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 12):
offers the cleaning staff the support they need.

So you are saying that the FA who might have found the body wouldn't have needed any counseling? Just the poor cleaning staff?



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlinelegacytravel From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1067 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5016 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 20):
So you are saying that the FA who might have found the body wouldn't have needed any counseling

I can tell you from first hand experience that finding a dead body will stay with you forever. I was on my way to work about 15 years ago and I found a car up against a telephone pole. It was an 18 year old girl on here way home from work. She hit a patch of ice and spun in and hit the pole so hard it knocked the battery off it mounts and popped the passenger door open. I still can see the blowing snow hitting her face and not melting as well as her facial expressions. She was on her way home from work and crashed 1/4 mile away from home. I did not know her or the family but it is something that I will take with me to my grave.
I do believe that of someone needs or wants counseling from that aircraft they should be given the chance to do so..

Mark in MKE



I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4971 times:

Quoting iairallie (Reply 18):
As was explained earlier toilet refers to the entire lavatory not just the commode in British talk.

I must disagree, as I pointed out in "Reply 3" The article states several times that the body was found in the "toilet". However, it also states that the crew is required to check the "lavatory" after he passengers disembark.

If the newspaper knew the crew is required to check the "lavatory" why then did it repeatedly use the word "toilet"? Maybe they didn't want to infer that the crew did not check the lavatory as required. Or my guess is was to to get peoples attention and have them read the article.


User currently offline9MMAR From Malaysia, joined Jul 2006, 2110 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4340 times:

This news first broke out to the public through Facebook on the last day of July, when one MH's FA put a status on her profile worrying about her 6 colleagues whom have been undergoing investigation and are taken off duties due to this incident. In the 'Comments' to the status, some details were later being revealed, that:

- All cabin crew on that flight were not performing their duties as per the airline's standard operating procedure for their failure to check the aircraft's lavatory where the deceased was found prior to leaving the aircraft.
- The body was found by the cleaning staff about 20 minutes after the last crew left the aircraft.
- The incident happened on a night prior to a weekend. It is believed that all cabin crew were in a rush for their weekend plans.
- There were 6 cabin crew on the flight and none of them check the said lavatory prior to leaving the aircraft.
- The victim was a male adult from Australia (and therefore the theory of him being chopped into pieces and flushed inside the tiny 'toilet' is dismissed).
- The flight was returning from SGN. Incident happened at night.
- Aircraft involved was 9M-MMH, a B734.

This news became an interest to many in Malaysia because MH brags of having the 'multi award winning world's best cabin staff' but sadly those in this flight failed to find a dead passenger in their aircraft, which proved that negligence can be fatal. Some argued that should the victim was found earlier, he maybe could be revived. It is also worth mentioning that to be the 'world's best cabin staff' is not only to bow or kneel upon passengers with smiles that reach from ear to ear (which is the service norm among South East Asian legacy carriers) but more importantly something more to basic compliance to the safety procedures throughout the entire flight, which includes what's the cabin crew should do no matter how petty the task is i.e. to check on the lavatories prior to leaving the aircraft.

Toilet as mentioned in this article is referring to the lavatory or the washroom. Most Malaysians would refer to the 'toilet' as per the Western comprehension as the 'toilet bowl'.

The Facebook status ended with "the 6 crew involved should expect a VERY hard time answering to the management". I guess it could be the end of their careers at MH.

The news article was published 5 days after the incident occured, which proved that MH tried to cover up the incident but thankfully it reached the press eventually.

Maybe not appropriate, but still a trivia to the topic, some say that 9M-MMH is now joining MH's haunted fleet (alongside 9M-MKH, an A333 and 9M-MPK, a B744) all of which have history about passengers died tragically in it or involved with 'supernatural' incidents in the past.

[Edited 2010-08-29 14:19:09]

User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3072 posts, RR: 37
Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3991 times:

Quoting iairallie (Reply 18):
As was explained earlier toilet refers to the entire lavatory not just the commode in British talk.

  
And New Zealand, Australia, etc, etc. There are more forms of English than just U.S. English.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 22):
I must disagree, as I pointed out in "Reply 3" The article states several times that the body was found in the "toilet". However, it also states that the crew is required to check the "lavatory" after he passengers disembark.

If the newspaper knew the crew is required to check the "lavatory" why then did it repeatedly use the word "toilet"?

You're reading way too much into the use of toilet/lavatory. In many English-speaking countries and former British colonies, they're used interchangeably. If the body had been found in the toilet bowl, the headline would have referred to "world's smallest midget".



Empty vessels make the most noise.
25 PITingres : Hmm, not sure I'm following you there. The cabin staff apparently had nothing to do with the death, other than failing to discover it. They certainly
26 9MMAR : What if the man dies 15 minutes before he was later on being discovered by the cleaning staff, i.e. 5 minutes after the last cabin crew left the aircr
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