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DOJ Approves CO-UA Merger; WN Gets EWR Slots  
User currently offlineiflykpdx From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 286 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 19941 times:

Quote:
WASHINGTON — The Justice Department says it has closed its investigation into the proposed merger of UAL Corp. and Continental Airlines Inc.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38886914/ns/business-us_business/

Looks like it's a done deal.




Mod Edit: Added short quote of article.

[Edited 2010-08-27 16:17:44 by EI787]


Airport Management - UND
213 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineairlineaddict From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 19953 times:
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You beat my thread by 7 seconds! The deal now waits for shareholder approvals on September 17.

User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 19930 times:

WHOO HOO! A bit sooner then expected no less? Very smart move regarding the WN at EWR deal BTW.


"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10393 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19781 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 3):
WHOO HOO! A bit sooner then expected no less? Very smart move regarding the WN at EWR deal BTW.

Looks to me that they didn't want to run into any of the pitfalls that DL and US did in the proposed swap deal. In this case, why was CO/UA able to choose just one airline to lease the slots to, whereas DL and US had chosen 2 or 3 but were turned down by the DOJ? Or am I comparing the wrong things?



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8552 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19734 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Anyway , glad to see that this major hurdle has been cleared , apparently UA/CO are still in discussion with the competition authorities in a number of individual states , and of course there is the shareholders approval to get ( but with both companies having several large institutional shareholders in common I suspect that there won't be much difficulty with that ) . CO/UA seem confident that they will have the deal closed by 1 October .

http://www.continental.com/web/en-US...apps/vendors/default.aspx?i=PRNEWS


Mod Edit: Removed quote to deleted post.

[Edited 2010-08-27 16:19:26 by EI787]


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineAviacsa737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19609 times:

Hooray for less competition, dehubbing, pay cuts, layoffs, and higher fares, all the wonderful good stuff that inevitably comes from mergers.   I honestly didnt think the Obama administration would allow this to happen, or would atleast put pressure on the DOJ to block it. One would think as pro-labor as the Obama administration is supposed to be they would realize just how bad this would be for everyone involved, regardless of whether or not the routes don't overlap much. The DOJ never ceases to disappoint me.  This is going to make it just that much harder to find a job

Less competition = makes it easier to manipulate prices and labor...how wonderful  


User currently offlineCIDflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2285 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19576 times:

when will we start seeing some planes in the new United livery? I know DL got them out pretty quick once the merger was approved. Should be easy for the CO planes, just change the name. I imagine we will see a 747 as soon as possible in the new UA scheme.

User currently offlinejunction From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 766 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19518 times:

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 7):
when will we start seeing some planes in the new United livery?

All CO deliveries beginning in September will have United titles. Including Q400 for Express/Connection. This from our director yesterday.


User currently offlineN809FR From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 182 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19453 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 3):
Very smart move regarding the WN at EWR deal BTW.

Why was WN the only airline given rights to EWR? That seems ridiculous considering F9 could have just as well competed on DEN-EWR as WN, and yet Frontier doesn't receive anything. Oh well, I guess that's why having a stronger lobby always works to ones advantage.


User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5173 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19376 times:

So when will we start seeing UA/CO aircraft operating on each other's routes? I know the single operating certificate won't happen for a while but I know DL had NW birds out of ATL almost instantly with NW crew.


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlinethomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3940 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19377 times:

Truly, a sad day!

Bye-bye CO

Thomas

[Edited 2010-08-27 16:27:29]


"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlineCOalways From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19305 times:

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 6):

I can't wait to see the Airbus in CO colors think it will look great!


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10393 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19307 times:

Quoting N809FR (Reply 8):
Why was WN the only airline given rights to EWR? That seems ridiculous considering F9 could have just as well competed on DEN-EWR as WN, and yet Frontier doesn't receive anything. Oh well, I guess that's why having a stronger lobby always works to ones advantage.

That's what I was alluding to, above. When DL and US entered into the swap deal and the DOT said you can't do that unless you give some slots up to other airlines, they came back and did just that, but that wasn't good enough and WN cried because they weren't included. Now CO/UA offer the slots at EWR to just ONE airline, WN and apparently, that's ok with the DOT/DOJ.  



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19305 times:

Quoting N809FR (Reply 8):
Why was WN the only airline given rights to EWR? That seems ridiculous considering F9 could have just as well competed on DEN-EWR as WN, and yet Frontier doesn't receive anything. Oh well, I guess that's why having a stronger lobby always works to ones advantage.

No idea. I would have figured B6 or DL would want a piece of that pie too but I guess not.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinejunction From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 766 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19287 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 9):
So when will we start seeing UA/CO aircraft operating on each other's routes?

I'm hearing schedules filed in October to take effect in February will begin to see mixed fleet.


User currently offlineWJ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19242 times:

Quoting Aviacsa737 (Reply 5):
I honestly didnt think the Obama administration would allow this to happen, or would atleast put pressure on the DOJ to block it. One would think as pro-labor as the Obama administration is supposed to be they would realize just how bad this would be for everyone involved

Except for one thing. You forgot this airline, the world's largest carrier, will be based in Obama's home town. There is no way on earth he would oppose this



146,727,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,764,772,300,310,319,320,321,330,343,DC9,D10,MD11,M80,E17
User currently offlineCOalways From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19240 times:

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 10):

I know truely the best of the best but to me I think of it as CO jus gettin a name change that's all still wearing its sexy gold dress jus switched her name to united, so u will see more Globes flying around which is good!


User currently offlinethegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19245 times:

Good news! Guys like Jim Oberstar were getting me worried...


Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineCIDflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2285 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19240 times:

Quoting junction (Reply 7):
All CO deliveries beginning in September will have United titles. Including Q400 for Express/Connection. This from our director yesterday

thanks for the info!

Quoting COalways (Reply 11):
I can't wait to see the Airbus in CO colors think it will look great!

me too!


User currently offlinedutchflyboi From Netherlands, joined Apr 2008, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19211 times:

Too bad that the Co name will be gone, but at least the Globe stays (for now). For those CO Fans, check out this website as a tribute to Continental:
http://www.calmemories.com/


User currently offlineAviacsa737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19098 times:

Quoting WJ (Reply 15):
There is no way on earth he would oppose this

   Did not realize that. Darn. I suppose its too much to expect a politician to put the well being of others over those of his own...    Did not know it was going to be based around Chicago. Sad to see CO, which i firmly believe to be superior in service and almost everything else go. So much for domestic meals. Guess ill have to pay 20 bucks for a 2 ounce snack pack, my next flight to Houston...


User currently offlineT5towbar From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 548 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 19055 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 13):
No idea. I would have figured B6 or DL would want a piece of that pie too but I guess not

B6 is already here at EWR. I would have thought that they would the prime candidate to be getting more slots (JMHO)
DL also has a nice sized operation here as well.
Airtran left last year (for a slot swap).
Who else was going to get the slots? Allegiant; Midwest; Spirit? WN was the unlikely candidate. But who would have thought that they were getting 36 of them.

I guess after seeing the troubles with the US/DL slot swap, this was a good move to foster some competition at a fortress hub, to make the merger go over smoother.

Smart move, CO........



A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
User currently offlinemrskyguy From United States of America, joined exactly 6 years ago today! , 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 18959 times:

Good to see. I was not an advocate of this merger, but it's akin to this now:



Now that it appears this is going to happen, I'm curious to now see how the regional shakeup is going to look once the XJT buyout by SkyWest's ASA takes place.

[Edited 2010-08-27 17:04:06]


"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offlineRIDGID727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 18736 times:

Quoting N809FR (Reply 8):
Why was WN the only airline given rights to EWR? That seems ridiculous considering F9 could have just as well competed on DEN-EWR as WN, and yet Frontier doesn't receive anything. Oh well, I guess that's why having a stronger lobby always works to ones advantage.

the slots were not just given away, WN agreed to lease them from UA. F9 probably didn't want to pay what WN would.

here is WN's press release

http://www.southwest.com/about_swa/p...index.html?int=GFOOTER-ABOUT-PRESS


User currently offlineBEG2IAH From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 965 posts, RR: 18
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 18562 times:
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Quote:
Continental and United currently operate 442 daily roundtrip flights into and out of Newark Liberty. The leasing of the first of the 18 daily slot pairs will begin in late March 2011 and the leasing arrangement will be fully implemented in June 2011.
United and Continental will continue to serve all the communities both airlines currently serve. Since the slot pair transfer is expected to have minimal impact on combined carrier's route network, United and Continental are not changing the previously announced synergy estimates of the merger.

Source: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....-newsArticle&ID=1464397&highlight=

BEG2IAH



FAA killed the purpose of my old signature: Use of approved electronic devices is now permitted.
25 Post contains images FlyASAGuy2005 : And judging from Daily News Updates i've been getting, we sgould be seeing the new 738s with the United name sooner than later . Also, more Qs with t
26 Post contains images USAirALB : Get ready for more empty ticket counters, and more empty gates. Get ready for no more CLE and no more free meals. Get ready for the end of Air Mike o
27 thomasphoto60 : You and me both brother. Again a sad day. Thomas
28 Post contains images UnitedTristar : what do you mean by Q's? -m
29 ytib : Q400 or DH8D aircraft.
30 Post contains images UnitedTristar : oh duh! thanks! -m
31 DLHFLYER : Seemed a given after the Delta-Northwest merger was approved. Airline globalization continues!
32 MSPNWA : Well, officially that's that. You can basically say CO's life ended on 27 Aug 2010. I wouldn't have been too worried about Oberstar. He didn't stop hi
33 FlyASAGuy2005 : Think you got it bad? Try this one: My father is a CO pilot and my mother is a PMDL analyst. Two mergers in 2 years. Yikes!!
34 PPVRA : Like it or not, air travel is now a commodity. While it means bigger companies and less choice, a commodity means there wasn't much of a choice to beg
35 AADC10 : The big factor is that WN complained. WN has a market cap greater than all of the other airlines combined and is the standard bearer of LCCs. Who bet
36 DCA-ROCguy : A very sad day for aviation. Mergers mean capacity cuts, layoffs, higher fares. No, those aren't good things. Airlines should earn profits through hon
37 Post contains images einsteinboricua : Honestly guys, get a grip. The airline will basically be Continental in all but the name. Also, what happened to "you have a choice when you travel. I
38 76794p : RIP Continental 1931- 2010, 79 great years of service. You will me missed!
39 sdexplorer00 : So does anyone have any insight into the future of the ff programs? Specifically will the new United maintain a relationship with American Express to
40 STT757 : CO/UA are leasing the slots to WN, so they could choose to lease them to whom ever they want. They chose WN, DL does not have the resources to outbid
41 FlyASAGuy2005 : I would have to disagree there. There are many markets where LCCs are not very entrenched, we are looking @ one right now. I think the balance as it
42 justloveplanes : Prices have already topped out. And this merger has not overlap. That's why it went through so quickly. Fortress EWR took a bigger hit than I expecte
43 Post contains images Aviacsa737 : Both of those statements are HIGHLY debatable and in no way given facts. I'm sorry pricing out a large portion of the public so that evil investors a
44 PPVRA : LCCs aren't really the main competition to network carriers. They can coexist in many markets. But they were going bankrupt and posting losses. Margi
45 Post contains images deltal1011man : yikes, that could be true, but i don't see how that could be done without the shareholders agreeing to the airline, which wont happen till the end of
46 kiwiandrew : Shareholders vote is next month , not the end of the year .
47 deltal1011man : ah ok, the time line on the web site said they expect the vote at the end of the year. never mind then.
48 EWRCabincrew : Correct. Septemebr 17th.
49 Post contains images kiwiandrew : I may have to break my drought and sink a beer on 18 September my time in your honour
50 Post contains images mayor : What I heard was they wanted to get the BK filed because of the changes in the BK laws that were imminent. Except for the DL/WA merger that went very
51 Post contains images FlyASAGuy2005 : Which was a hallmark and the DL/NW merger is doing pretty well from most metrics save the whining by some. I know JG was very "low-key" as well as he
52 Post contains images Aviacsa737 : Yes i do. I wish i had an airline job. Doesnt mean i have to like the way airlines are going. Or their "get less pay more" strategies towards Pax. Bu
53 mayor : I always felt that JG went out of his way to make sure that DL survived because he felt guilty for his part in the BOD's hiring of LEO as CEO, althou
54 Post contains images profcalvin : While it's a cool merger, this just means a larger company, less competition, therefore they have more control over the price of tickets and that mean
55 LuisKMIA : Given this approval, and despite its financial situation, what are the chances of AA merging with AS? It would add 73G and 739 aircraft to AA, which i
56 mayor : It's no more gouging than someone buying a car. If you want certain features, you have to pay for it. If you want SPEED, you can't expect a Chevy Ave
57 Post contains links acalikk : CO stopped serving free meals for domestic flight back in may i believe... just like most of the other airlines... http://articles.latimes.com/2010/m
58 mayor : I think we've discussed this ad nauseum on here, along with the DL/AS speculation.
59 Post contains images Aviacsa737 : We'll just have to agree to disagree then On a more selfish note, i will miss the free meals in CO Y class. Ill make sure to bring my own food now ra
60 kiwiandrew : UA also has 787s on order so I don't foresee any changes to the current CO order , other than the aircraft being delivered with UA titles on them . I
61 USAirALB : Nope. Still servin'.
62 Post contains images acalikk : that makes the two of us flying for free...and i love it...with CO merging UA it mean more options for me from EWR and IAH..
63 acalikk : agreee....
64 Post contains images EWRCabincrew : I am here to tell you we are still serving free meals. Till September. Mind you, some domestic flights will have free meals. I thank you! (where is t
65 Schweigend : This makes me think of the fact that CO's first ordered 787s will arrive as -824 versions. When the joint operating certificate is achieved, I expect
66 Post contains images kgaiflyer : I guess it depends on the route. I flew ELP-IAH-DCA last Saturday. ELP-IAH @ 95 minutes -- at 3pm -- *nothing* -- no food. DCA-IAH @ 3 hours at 7pm w
67 F9Animal : So let me ask this.. Why did the UA-US merger get denied several years back? Would this merger between CO-UA have been denied if it was during the sam
68 enilria : I don't remember F9 asking for anything. WN has been complaining for a while about its access to the NE airports. Good things come to those who whine
69 kiwiandrew : IIRC it did not get denied , UA-US called it off of their own volition prior to any DoJ response . There was a lot of speculation at the time that it
70 Flighty : Basically, yes. Mergers like this raise prices. In some markets this will take the competition down to only 1 or 2 players. For many routes there wil
71 MadameConcorde : I am a UA million miles flyer and a no-merger supporter for several reasons. One reason is that I don't want to see my long-time frequent flyer statu
72 rampart : Yes, I would normally agree, but in the process, CO is leasing slots at EWR to WN. In that case, the merger has introduced new competition, and I exp
73 Post contains images FlyNWA727 : Surely you can't be lumping that huge block of "Frank Lorenzo years" in those 79 great years of service ... or those two bankruptcy periods for that
74 Antoniemey : Where were you driving? I can get from Cleveland to the west coast in about 3 days, and that's with stopping every night for sleep. Indeed... you pay
75 chepos : Good luck to both UAL and CO employees, mergers are not easy especially for the traveling passengers and the front line employees. Hopefully not a lot
76 ChopChop767 : Wow! The world's largest airline. Just my own thoughts, but I cannot help but think the merger will be successful. The assets that UAL commanded in th
77 EWRandMDW : I, on the other hand, can't wait to see a 737 with United titles again! Seems like the natural order of things is being restored!
78 COSPN : Rumor has it that the Air-micronesia Certificate will go "Buh...Bye" early next year CMI into CO into UA for 1 SOC The Airmike certificate was create
79 Post contains images BMIFlyer : Excellent news!! Can't wait to fly the "new" UA
80 Post contains images caljn : We have the pretense of a democracy, but the country is run by corporations. Can you say "too big to fail"? I don't see how this move, or Delta NW, b
81 Post contains images MadameConcorde : Me neither. Conglomerates = cost cutting = lost jobs by the thousands. You dont think they are going to keep all aircafts and pilots from both fleets
82 bjorn14 : No. Good things come to those who have cash and lots of it.
83 fsnuffer : Gordon Bethune: "From Worst to First" Jeffery Smisek: "From First back to Worst"
84 drerx7 : Well, this is bitter sweet. As a Houstonian I am going to miss being able to say we are an airline headquarters and I am going to miss the Continental
85 sbworcs : But many on here have said in the past that ticket prices need to rise to ensure airline survival - how do you propose that the system be changed to
86 Post contains images FlyNWA727 : Thanks so much for your in-depth response.
87 LHNYC : I see less and less competition. In my estimate, AA/US should merge and then there will be the big three in the US..... AA/DL/UA......
88 Chicagoflight : I wonder what the new stock symbol will be and will it be traded on NASDAQ or NYSE ? CAL traded on NYSE last trade 21.80 UAUA traded on NASDAQ last tr
89 Chicagoflight : Why do people insist on denying the existence of LCCs and the pricing pressure they put on the industry? Regardless of the perception, the U.S. does
90 Chicagoflight : Delta is hiring Mergers bad. Huh ?[Edited 2010-08-28 07:08:13] DAL flight attendants : HIRING DAL customer service agents : HIRING DAL baggage handle
91 PPVRA : You do realize THE EXACT OPPOSITE has happened? And here's the real reason why it may be fair to block you from fast transportation: nobody, and I me
92 norcal : I agree that there is definitely some questionable things that go on with SOME managements. However they and investors do have a right to make money
93 DCA-ROCguy : 18 slot-pairs at Newark is a *pittance.* I'm surprised DOJ was bought off that cheaply, especially in a Democratic administration. Unless I've really
94 rampart : It's how WN started at DEN, give or take a few. And now look. UA is the one losing share at DEN, but CO-UA aren't wary of the hole in the dyke they j
95 PPVRA : Smaller markets tend to already be dominated by a single network carrier and/or already have limited choices.
96 STT757 : They "announced" they would stop serving complimentary meals at mealtime on domestic flights under six hours, it take effect next month. Here's my sp
97 DC8FanJet : Why not? There are no plans to cut any flying.
98 United1 : The difference is that EWR is slot controlled DEN is not....WN can only expand at EWR if they can find more slots. If anything they are looking at gr
99 Post contains images mayor : Where to start, where to start.......................................... Then I wonder why you are so worried about getting a job if not for money to
100 norcal : No one says you should like forking over money. However we are trying to run a business and it is ridiculous for you to expect us to provide below co
101 Post contains images MasseyBrown : Everybody makes this prediction and it may well happen; but, if it does, I don't think it will happen as quickly as people think. CO is (and UA will
102 DCA-ROCguy : But as United1 noted in reply 99, DEN is not slot-controlled, and EWR is. DEN also has six runways spread out over a gigantic area and is not delay-p
103 CV880 : You don't even have the "right" to ride Greyhound or your local transit system unless you can pay for it. As far as your job apps, the local grocerie
104 Aviacsa737 : So will this make UA/CO the largest operator of 787's in north america? I know both have orders and AA has been himing and hawing about any order, so
105 kiwiandrew : I believe so . Firm(ish) 787 orders for North American carriers ( usual disclaimer - this has come from wikipedia so could be wrong etc etc ) new UA
106 einsteinboricua : Plans...so I would assume that it's a LOI since no actual negotiation has happened.
107 UAL777UK : This great news, I am very exited about the "new" UA and what it might bring to my hometown airport LHR.
108 dldtw1962 : The labor unions are not going to be easy on the UA side about this. They have been getting screwed for years by Tilton and his boys. So this merger c
109 Post contains images swat1la : Hey guy's, first time ever getting into a forum here on A.net. Just curious about the factors that play into determining where CO/UA will adjust at ea
110 TOMMY767 : 34 flights a day isn't too shabby. It's like what UA used to have at EWR around 1999-2000 when they still had a base there. My friend flew EWR-LAX ye
111 STT757 : Hopefully P.S. flights get the complimentary meals at meal time.
112 Rising : This kind of comment reflects an old, 1970s-style entitlement culture that was dominate at most US carriers pre-restructuring. Thankfully, most Union
113 mayor : Jumping the gun a little bit there, aren't you? The voting hasn't even taken place yet, and, unless I'm mistaken, you've already called the unions th
114 crucianpilot : Its 18 takeoff and 18 landing slots for a total of 36. So 18 flights a day, not 36.
115 kgaiflyer : An excellent question. Will Continental Micronesia be divested? Sold to Hawaiian? Taken over by the government because of their Johnson Island and Kw
116 BOStonsox : Isn't there one more organization, I think it's the DOT, who has to still approve it? Or did they already? Welcome to a.net! Massport's plans for BOS
117 United1 : Probably nothing as drastic as a divestiture...UA/CO includes GUM and NRT as hubs in their route networks...they seem to be committed to maintaining
118 CODC10 : No. CS will 'merge' with CO to operate on the same certificate, which will then merge and operate on the UA certificate. At least this is the plan pr
119 STT757 : The merger has been approved by the DOJ, no further divestiture is necessary. Also CO stopped flying to Johnston island about 10-12 years ago when th
120 exFATboy : The more I think about this result, the more I find myself questioning the government's impartiality here. Why is CO/UA getting to hand-pick who they
121 Post contains images Rising : The voting paperwork went out last week and voting has already started via online proxy. These companies have 10s of millions of shares, most of them
122 Post contains images phatfarmlines : You do bring an interesting perspective to this situation. I think there should be a new thread to discuss DL/US deal in in light of this deal. I'm n
123 STT757 : Yes, to quote some other poster in another thread WN is a "network" LCC. VX would provide low fares to SFO, B6's hub is JFK and where ever they would
124 Cubsrule : Because of the order in which things happened. CO/UA did this deal themselves, before the government told them they had to take action. An alternativ
125 amwest2united : Not sure where you got this info, but we at UA have been told that they will evaluate all "3" AOC, determine which of the 3 will fit the new UA the b
126 mayor : Could DL and US just have "leased" the slots that DOT wanted divested to whoever they wanted as is being done here?
127 Post contains images mariner : Voluntarily? Well, I guess. LOL. It was widely known they'd have to do something about EWR to get the deal approved, and they did. Back in May I post
128 Cubsrule : It was voluntary in the sense that CO/UA never proposed to do their deal without doing something about the acknowledged anticompetitive effects. They
129 mariner : As I said, if "voluntary" works for you, that's fine. I see one of the more overtly political preemptive strikes I've seen in a very long time. I am
130 Cubsrule : Given that there would have been zero precedent for making UA divest more than 18 slot pairs, what choice did the government have?
131 Post contains images mariner : Demand more? They have the power. LOL. As I've posted previously, the route that set the alarm bells ringing for Cambridge Aviation (in May) was EWR-
132 C010T3 : That's because there is no entry barrier for that route.
133 drerx7 : Den-iah doesn't raise as many eyebrows because of f9 and wn on DEN-HOU
134 Cubsrule : I'd argue that they don't have the power. That's why this is such a brilliant move by CO and UA - and not really something DL and US could have done
135 mariner : LOL. The same argument was made to me on William Swelbar's website about DEN-JFK and DEN-LGA. You see "brilliant" - I see pragmatic. They got away wi
136 Cubsrule : Again, how could the government have possibly asked for more than 18 pairs?
137 mariner : How long did the DOJ/DOT block AA/BA, demanding divestiture? mariner
138 Cubsrule : Could you point me toward the point at which either DoT or DoJ wanted every one of AA's slots divested?
139 mariner : Why would I do that? I'm not claiming the DOJ wanted every one of the merged airline's EWR slots divested. But what you have here is arguably worse t
140 GlobalCabotage : Hard to believe that this went throug DOJ quicker than DL/NW!
141 Cubsrule : ...but you are seemingly claiming that they wanted every one of the smaller carrier's LHR slots divested. The to UA/CO divesting every one of UA's EW
142 exFATboy : I'm not objecting to the number of slots, but I am questioning the government's reaction to how the recipient of the slots was chosen. In their rulin
143 mariner : No. I am simply saying the I find the whole business deeply ironic. I am amused by the chutzpah of it - and the fact that they got away with it. LOL.
144 point2point : It makes one wonder if any of the other airlines had any chance at this eh?
145 C010T3 : When it comes to other airports, you may say that Ryanair comes up with such claims, but not in Hahn's case.
146 Post contains links mariner : Hmmmm? From the Ryanair website: http://www.ryanair.com/en/cheap-flights-frankfurt-hahn-germany/ "Travel to Frankfurt-Hahn - Germany mariner
147 mayor : It's not through, yet. There's still the SOC and the shareholders ok to wait for.
148 rj777 : What's the SOC?[Edited 2010-08-29 19:04:26]
149 DCA-ROCguy : SOC = single operating certificate
150 C010T3 : The airport is called Frankfurt-Hahn and that's not because of Ryanair.
151 mariner : Ryanair still sells it as Frankfurt. Ryanair: "Book a cheap flight to Frankfurt and discover this modern-looking city’s medieval origins." At least
152 C010T3 : Let's try this again. Ryanair sells Lübeck (LBC) as Hamburg, but the airport itself is only called Lübeck Airport, not Hamburg/Lübeck. Now, when i
153 mariner : And Beauvais-Tillé Airport appears on their route map as Paris - Beauvais. In my book, they would call it Frankfurt-Hahn and they would say "book a
154 exFATboy : Ryanair doesn't "have" to call it "Frankfurt" just because an airport authority has taken it on itself to put the word "Frankfurt" in its name...they
155 dutchflyboi : and all this has to do what with the UA-CO merger and WN getting some slots at EWR? Can we get back on track please? Anyway, I am glad that the DoJ w
156 Post contains images kgaiflyer : Maybe because Manhattan is an hour trip west on the Long Island Railroad?
157 Post contains images kgaiflyer : Good point, but as long we're on this, in addition to ISP, WN also flies into LGA from their BWI hub. Assuming these LGA flights will be moved to EWR
158 rj777 : I wonder if WN will take over the EWR-OMA route as well......
159 Post contains images point2point : It would probably give those in Omaha some good fares into NYC, but OMA has very limited connection possibilities and I don't think that WN would wan
160 COEWR787 : Why would they move their LGA flights to EWR? They seem to be doing fine out of LGA on those flights. It is possible that they will have additional f
161 Post contains images exFATboy : It is "on track" - discussion of WN's future strategy at ISP is a natural outgrowth of the EWR announcement, as the ISP strategy is part of WN's over
162 Post contains images dutchflyboi : I was talking about the Ryanair discussion. Like others have said, I don't think that Southwest would do that, but I love to see some better competit
163 Cubsrule : Rather than laughing at me, why don't you tell us what makes Gatwick a London airport that does not make Islip a New York airport? It's a very odd do
164 Post contains images kgaiflyer : What drives me crazy is flying out of one airport and being forced to fly back into another because of either overbooking (happens a lot with the Q20
165 Adam T. : So what happens if in your case your car is parked at BWI but they fly you into IAD? Are they going to pay for you to get from IAD to BWI to pick up
166 Adam T. : I think the big thing that Houstonian's are worried about is the loss of jobs at the headquarters and operations center since CO/UA have publicly sta
167 mariner : I think Ryanair's hub at Hahn is very sensible, less sympathetic when they attempt to sell it as Frankfurt. It isn't simply a matter of distance, NRT
168 TOMMY767 : I was referring to DL not WN at EWR. I should have noted that. B6 flies EWR-TPA/MCO/PBI/RSW
169 Post contains images exFATboy : Ah...you'd quoted me talking about ISP, so I wasn't sure. Realize you weren't asking me, but here's my take on the question - it's mainly about dista
170 Post contains images kgaiflyer : Okay, it works like this: (1) - I go to the Hertz facility at Washington-Dulles (where some of my international students work) , cry a lot, pull out
171 STT757 : I'm refering to connections, obviously there's not much if any connecting opportunities on B6 from RSW, PBI, TPA etc.. With WN to MDW, BNA, DEN, PHX
172 Cubsrule : I think it's all about psyche. Most people aren't using a helicopter to go downtown. If you drive from Gatwick to Canary Wharf, it's about 35 miles (
173 kgaiflyer : Not to be picky, but the LIRR goes to Penn Station rather than Grand Central. It's hardly convenient, but you can now take National Rail from LGW to
174 mariner : As I said. The psyche- perception - is that ISP is a dead end. You can't go much further east from there, or north or south, and west you have - JFK,
175 ScottB : In reality, 1 & 2 most likely are the key drivers here. When DL and US proposed their slot swap, they included NO divestitures of slots; presumab
176 MLD9S : Are you kidding me? You're seriously comparing Tiananman Square to a freakin' airline merger? Really? Two huge corporations merging is comparable to
177 MLD9S : I don't think it was ever Southwest's intention to persuade passengers that Islip was New York City. I don't even think Southwest ever even attempted
178 Post contains links mariner : Whether Southwest ever presented ISP as "New York" or not, it was Cubsrule's implication that that ISP is an acceptable, alternative New York airport
179 Post contains images exFATboy : And, at least in New York, most people aren't driving, either. But I did say a lot of this is subjective...or, if you will, perception. I do agree wi
180 point2point : If I may add, as one who lives in NYC, that first, ISP can in a big picture sense be considered a New York area airport, but then here we'll have to a
181 PlanesNTrains : Because it isn't a right. He - and they - are politicians. Nothing more, nothing less. "Care" is indeed a four letter word to many of them. True. Tru
182 Cubsrule : I don't know. F9 isn't much larger than WN in NYC and doesn't have a hub 200 miles away. I'd agree that most passengers would tell you that ISP is no
183 mariner : I think if the deal had been done with Frontier then Southwest would have gone nuclear - again - and United/Continental knew this. Since I think this
184 Cubsrule : Agreed. I think you - and many others - are vastly overestimating WN's pull within the government. WN went ballistic because the DL/US deal was desig
185 kgaiflyer : My understanding is that WN's starting service at MacArthur Field had less to do with getting out-of-state passengers to the New York City area than
186 Post contains images dadoftyler : WOW...we were?????? That's a heck of a promotion, then! Bill
187 mariner : Now I am really confused. I am not claiming that Southwest has that much influence with the government. Back in May, I predicted that exactly this wo
188 Cubsrule : I think I may have (wrongly) conflated your views with those of some other people who seemingly think that DoT gives WN everything it wants and other
189 Post contains images mariner : Not a problem. It is not impossible that - deep down inside - I have some sympathy with the views of those other people, it's just that I haven't sai
190 TxAgKuwait : One thing that is being overlooked: F9 has recently emerged from bankruptcy. Southwest is financially healthy, profitable, and while not lighting up W
191 mariner : Frontier is now fully owned by Republic. When was Republic in bankruptcy? mariner
192 frmrCapCadet : LGW has a really good RR connection to Victoria Station, which is in the heart of London. And the two terminals, LGW and Victoria, are not at all off
193 exFATboy : Quote's not me, but a previous post I quoted - I've been arguing the "LGW is a London airport" side. But as has been pointed out, Frontier's new pare
194 mariner : I'm not looking for a fight, but I'm coming back to this because I really find that inference borderline offensive. The logical extension is that if
195 mayor : None, but the DL/US deal (2nd iteration) did exactly what the DOT and DOJ wanted, except not as many slots. Unless somebody whined about it, why woul
196 kgaiflyer : Oh, it not just the train. National Coach has nonstop service to LHR from the front door of the LGW terminal building connecting to the Piccadilly Li
197 ScottB : I left out a word; I should have said "I strongly doubt the government would have opposed the transaction." But I don't think the presence of a hub 2
198 exFATboy : Actually, Westchester (HPN) is for Westchester, although with the NIMBY limitatons Westchesterians (Westchesterites?) still have to go to LGA or JFK
199 STT757 : It didn't do what they wanted, the DOT specifically stated a certain number of slots had to be divested. DL and US tried to bargain that down, obviou
200 Cubsrule : On this transaction, I doubt there was a thought process. Again, what legal basis would the government have had to oppose the lease to WN?
201 DCA-ROCguy : Exactly. DL/ US did not meet the conditions DOT laid down, and clearly DOT thought the specified window of competition was too important to be bargai
202 Cubsrule : Yes - I think that's the only way the government could have "rejected" the lease - but that's not about the lease, which is wholly procompetitive.
203 Post contains links and images mariner : Could they not have just asked for a bit more opening up - divestiture - without rejecting the merger itself? Cranky Flier has a take on it all: http
204 PlanesNTrains : WN does like to talk out both sides of their mouth sometimes. Kind of like the other thread about JetBlue starting EWR-BOS. The COO apparently commen
205 ScottB : From reading the order regarding slots at EWR, it's unclear that the other carriers would have even had grounds to contest the slot lease. The order
206 mariner : I'd be pretty sure the DOJ gave at least some clues, but even without the DOJ it wasn't rocket science. I think the Cambridge Aviation report, in May
207 DCA-ROCguy : I for one wish they would have. I said either earlier in this thread, or in another, that I'd like to have seen DOJ really put the screws to UA-CO an
208 mariner : Probably no more than that. If that many. I very much doubt that Frontier has plans to be a NY-centric airline. Plans can change, of course. As a par
209 Cubsrule : What makes you say "presumably?" Again, it's never been done - in any industry.[Edited 2010-08-31 18:06:17]
210 Post contains links CODC10 : This is linked in another thread, but I figured I would just add it in here because it is relevant: http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...ontinental
211 quiet1 : But, if I understand correctly, the number of slots they "gave" to WN are equal to the number of slots the current UA has. By divesting itself of all
212 Post contains images exFATboy : I believe that as a principle of anti-trust law, DOJ can generally only require two merging companies to give up the market share of the smaller of t
213 Cubsrule : The rule seems clear enough to me: If you are going to transfer enough slots that the transfer is 100% procompetitive, you can transfer them to whome
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