smartt1982 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 225 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 7 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2915 times:
I was recently reading an article about the BA route from LCY to JFK with the stop at SNN on the Westbound leg. In the article it mentioned that BA do not have traffic rights at SNN. Probably obvious I know but would anyone be so kind to explain to me what this means? Is it just that it is a tech stop in relation to one of the ICAO freedoms and thats is all they are allowed?
macilree From New Zealand, joined Dec 2006, 243 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2803 times:
A technical stop like this is exercising the second freedom of the air. ICAO has a summary of the freedoms of the air available here.
I am virtually certain that BA would be able to obtain fifth freedom rights to carry passengers from SNN to JFK but would be choosing not to. The relevant inter-government air services arrangements would be those between the EU and the USA available here.
It would be interesting to know how many scheduled international services are still making regular technical stops. I am aware that such stops are still made on an ad hoc basis due weather, for example by QF at CHC on services against the prevailing winds from EZE to SYD.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26547 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2785 times:
Quoting macilree (Reply 1): I am virtually certain that BA would be able to obtain fifth freedom rights to carry passengers from SNN to JFK but would be choosing not to.
Correct, it's BA's decision not to carry passengers SNN-JFK. Demand would be almost zero anyway especially with service in one direction only.
Any EU or US carrier can operate any routes they want between the EU and the US, without any requirement to negotiate 5th freedom rights. It's already part of the Open Skies agreement. EU carriers also have unlimited 5th freedom rights beyond the USA (and US carriers beyond Europe) assuming they can obtain 5th freedom rights from the 3rd country involved.
And BA could obviously carry passengers LCY-SNN but what's the point with one way service and so few seats?
RTFM From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2716 times:
Quoting smartt1982 (Thread starter): Is it just that it is a tech stop in relation to one of the ICAO freedoms and thats is all they are allowed?
And to answer the second part of the question.... the reason for the tech stop between LCY & JFK is because the A318 can't take off with enough fuel load from LCY's short runway to make it all the way to JFK. Reason for SNN as the tech stop is that it has the added advantage of having a US CBP pre-clearance facility. So, while the a/c is being refuelled the passengers clear US immigration in SNN meaning that when they land in JFK they are effectively domestic arrivals and can walk straight from plane to kerb. I've been at the kerb in less than 10 minutes from doors opening.