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Nine Pax Removed From Flight At IAD  
User currently offlinecontrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1829 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9852 times:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/08/30...ight.disturbance/index.html?hpt=T2

(CNN) -- Nine passengers aboard a plane at Dulles International Airport were removed before takeoff due to a comment made to a crew member Sunday night, a United Airlines spokeswoman said.

Megan McCarthy told CNN she had no information early Monday morning about the nature of the comment. She said United employees came to the gate, spoke with the crew and then spoke with the passengers taken off the plane.


I wonder what was said?

[Edited 2010-09-01 10:57:43 by srbmod]


Flying Colors Forever!
49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGingerSnap From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2010, 892 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9468 times:

I wonder what the 'comment' was exactly also.

It can't have been too serious, considering they were re-booked following the incident. The only answer I could think of, would be a perhaps inappropriate remark (perhaps out of jest), or they were a group getting quite rowdy.
But other than that, I can't imagine what would get nine passengers removed from an aircraft, then be allowed to fly later on.



Flown on: A306 A319/20/21 A332 B732/3/4/5/7/8 B742/4 B752 B762/3 B772/W C152 E195 F70/100 MD-82 Q400
User currently offlinehomsar From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8862 times:

Maybe they asked if food would be served on that flight. That is, apparently, grounds for being removed from a plane.


I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlineEgghead From United States of America, joined May 2005, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8169 times:

It was a military delegation going from Pakistan to Centcom HQ (Tampa).

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/...umiliation-at-us-airport-190-rs-08


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7870 times:

And people wonder why the military forces of Pakistan do not fall all over themselves to assist the US government when they can't even fly normally on a commercial flight in the US.

User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2008 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 7482 times:

I hope when the Indian military delegation comes to the US to buy a bunch of US made planes, they are not treated to the same xenophobia.

I know, I know, India is much different from Pakistan. Alas, much of the US general public can't tell the difference nor care. They should . . . MY JOB DEPENDS ON IT . . .

bikerthai

Edited because the other comment was remove

[Edited 2010-09-01 13:19:51]


Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8740 posts, RR: 28
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 7384 times:

Can anyone imagine that a 2 star general does not take orders from a flight attendant? Can anyone imagine that he as well the the other high ranking officers in that delegation, like any other fare paying passenger, expect to be treated with respect as what they are, customers and not like prison inmates?

Can anyone imagine that in the aftermath TSA appearantly totally screwed this up by holding the officers, unable to understand their credentials and rank. I have full sympathy with the Pakistani officers and their reaction.



I'm not fishing for compliments
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 7356 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 6):
Can anyone imagine that a 2 star general does not take orders from a flight attendant?

Apparently the comment to the crew member was another passenger complaining about not feeling safe flying on a plane with 'arabs'. So the airline reps asked the 'arab' passengers to deplane.


User currently offlinejunction From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 766 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 7339 times:

The article concludes "this was a case of paranoia" , but what about the part where it states the brigadier "misbehaved with a stewardess" and told her "this would be her last flight." That behavior alone would probably get anyone removed from a commercial flight.

User currently onlineEagleboy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1745 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 7313 times:
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Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 7):
Apparently the comment to the crew member was another passenger complaining about not feeling safe flying on a plane with 'arabs'. So the airline reps asked the 'arab' passengers to deplane

The pax who complained should have been shown the door..........regardless of whether the 9 pax were foreign military or not.

From the Dawn article linked above: ".......when a passenger on the flight to Tampa complained that a Pakistani brigadier, while talking to his colleagues, had made remarks that he found threatening"

Surely the officers would be talking to each other in their own language (Pashtu?) so how did the pax hear the comment?

[Edited 2010-09-01 13:52:35]

User currently offlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4493 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 7280 times:
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TSA at its best yet again.I mentioned this on another thread before, the disabled wheelchair bound wife of the Taiwanese president was body searched by the TSA when she was boarding a private charter in the US with her security detail!! I;m sure the fools thought she was a major risk to the flight and I'm sure her detail, who probably were armed, were less dangerous than her in the eyes of the TSA. This generated the first direct personal contact between someone in the White House and the Taiwanese president since we switched diplomatic recognition to Beijing in 79. I can only imagine what words were coming out of W's mouth as he apologized. Do those clowns in the TSA get taught anything or have any common sense??
(there was also the CPB official who insisted on finger printing the head of TECRO, the unofficial Taiwanese embassy in Washington even though there is an actual piece of legislation passed years ago by congress saying officials there have the same rights as true "diplomats". Good thing he came from a friendly nation (which also happens to be one of the bigger trade partners of the US and purchaser of treasury bills - maybe one of the biggest on a per capita basis) with millenia of cultural sophistication and he probably has a post graduate degree from an ivy league school and is used to idiot Americans in uniforms feeling too self important throwing their weight around so he accepted it graciously, there are lots of yahoo diplomats from wannabe third world nations who would have thrown a fit and made a big deal on CNN that night.


User currently offlinejunction From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 766 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 7243 times:

Quoting trex8 (Reply 10):
Do those clowns in the TSA get taught anything or have any common sense??

This also makes me wonder do these people ever get disciplined for these types of missteps. We only ever here what happened but not if anything is getting done to prevent future problems.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 7245 times:

Quoting junction (Reply 8):
told her "this would be her last flight." That behavior alone would probably get anyone removed from a commercial flight.

I can't begin to count the number of times I've heard a self-important businessman or snooty housewife tell a FA the same thing. I would suspect they hear from passengers that they will lose their jobs after the passenger complains to airline management about their treatment at least once per week, maybe more.

Being personally blamed for company acitons and policy is just part of the job of being a front line rep of any business when you deal face to face with customers.


User currently offlineL1011Lover From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 989 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 7195 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 7):
Apparently the comment to the crew member was another passenger complaining about not feeling safe flying on a plane with 'arabs'. So the airline reps asked the 'arab' passengers to deplane.

If that is true... and I say "If"... and they were simply removed for the fact that some paranoid passenger complained about not feeling safe because they were "Arabs" then I really start to wonder what's happening in this country. That would simply be outrageous!!!

Quoting junction (Reply 8):
The article concludes "this was a case of paranoia" , but what about the part where it states the brigadier "misbehaved with a stewardess" and told her "this would be her last flight." That behavior alone would probably get anyone removed from a commercial flight.

If they misbehaved and did not follow the instructions and orders from the flight attendant, removing them from the flight was the only right thing to do! Period!

Best regards

L1011Lover


User currently offlineblrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1393 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 7129 times:

I would take the Dawn report with a pinch of salt. It is not going to smear its own generals even if they were found to be responsible. Unless we hear from the airline side, we won't know the real story.

Quoting GingerSnap (Reply 1):
It can't have been too serious, considering they were re-booked following the incident. The only answer I could think of, would be a perhaps inappropriate remark (perhaps out of jest), or they were a group getting quite rowdy.

This might be a reason too, as the Pakistani army gets to do what it wants in pakistan, and assumes the same in other countries too.


User currently offlinenwafflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1050 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6984 times:

I thought Urdu (very similar to Hindi) was the language used in Pakistan (not counting all of the local dialects, etc.)

User currently offlinemacsog6 From Singapore, joined Jan 2010, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6828 times:
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Just imagine the uproar that would have been created if a US major general and his delegation were pulled off a foreign flight becuase a pax said they were uncomfortable flying with Americans. We would probably invade.  


Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6791 times:

Heads are going to roll for this one. Can only imagine what GEN Mattis is thinking about the TSA and United.


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8740 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6637 times:

Quoting junction (Reply 11):
This also makes me wonder do these people ever get disciplined for these types of missteps

How can you discipline them when they just did what they were instructed to do?

Should anyone joining the TSA have something called "common sense" he / she is trained not to use that function while on the job. The whole system is absurd, paranoid and criminalizes people.

How can 9 passengers be thrown off a flight just on the basis that one passenger did not want to fly with the "Arabs". Now., exchange "Arabs" with anything, like the N word for instance and we are right at the point where these passengers get insulted. If I'd overhear that one does not want to fly with that "German" I'd get upset to a stage where TSA I might have an unfriendly encounter with TSA.

So, what happened to that moron who kicked the while story off?



I'm not fishing for compliments
User currently offlineSSTsomeday From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 1276 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6624 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 6):
Can anyone imagine that a 2 star general does not take orders from a flight attendant?

No. He DOES take orders from him/her, or he's OUT.

Can anyone imagine an American military delegation turning around and deserting an opportunity to cooperate with another country in order to further world peace and stability, because they felt "humiliated" by airport security, or any other airport personal for that matter? The Pakistani military delegation should "grow up," in my view... There's more important things at stake.

Apparently, due to the class system in Pakistan and other cultural differences, certain dignitaries and government officials are given preferential treatment at airports. They are not required to go through security, etc., and to insist on such a thing is very disrespectful. But, hello, we live in a Republic.

I would also find it difficult to immediately identify the legitimacy of Pakistani military identification. Once again the TSA have "erred," and they have erred on the side of caution. As it should be. The U.S. Military understandably has much more experience dealing with the Pakistani military than the TSA would.

Quoting macsog6 (Reply 17):
Just imagine the uproar that would have been created if a US major general and his delegation were pulled off a foreign flight because a pax said they were uncomfortable flying with Americans. We would probably invade.

No, they would be patient and diplomatic. However, I imagine the U.S. will do it's best to apologize for the incident, in order to get on with the peacemaking, and get past the bruised egos. What babies.

Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 13):
If they misbehaved and did not follow the instructions and orders from the flight attendant, removing them from the flight was the only right thing to do! Period!

THANK you.

Quoting blrsea (Reply 14):
the Pakistani army gets to do what it wants in pakistan, and assumes the same in other countries too.

Assuming you are correct (and noting your ident flag), I don't think the TSA should cave to any inappropriate behavior, regardless of how important the perpetrators are, or thinks they are. I look forward to hearing the airline's side on this one...



I come in peace
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6592 times:

If a crew member of any airline iss rude or give attitude they should get a befitting response, regardless of consequences.

User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2654 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6491 times:

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 20):
Can anyone imagine an American military delegation turning around and deserting an opportunity to cooperate with another country in order to further world peace and stability, because they felt "humiliated" by airport security, or any other airport personal for that matter?

Can I imagine an American military delegation in, say, Russia, after having been thrown out of an airplane, then detained for two hours without explanation while trying to identify themselves unsuccessfully, can I imagine them deciding to call it quits and go back home? Sure I can.



AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8740 posts, RR: 28
Reply 22, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6459 times:

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 20):
No. He DOES take orders from him/her, or he's OUT.

and I repeat it as often as I want, an aircraft with paying passengers on board is not a military camp and not a prison. As a passenger, I do not take "orders". I comply with what is normal procedure on a flight, I shut down my cell phone, I do not stand up while thre plane is moving etc. If I ask a question, and be that what kind of food we have, I expect a polite answer and not a "shut up" or a kick off the aircraft. I expect cabin personell to adress me in a friendly and polite tone. Anything less is not acceptable. I am not taking orders from anyone, I comply with what is standard procedure.

Quoting UALWN (Reply 22):
Can I imagine an American military delegation in, say, Russia, after having been thrown out of an airplane, then detained for two hours without explanation while trying to identify themselves unsuccessfully, can I imagine them deciding to call it quits and go back home? Sure I can.

  

absolutely, what the Paksitani did was simply self respect.



I'm not fishing for compliments
User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2191 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6334 times:

Could not care less who they were/are. Comments inappropriately made to the the F/A would mean the person should have been removed. End of story


Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1848 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6386 times:

Wow, do we have any reliable information about this event at all?

It seems like one group of people is treating it as a case of poorly-behaving passengers, who felt entitled to something (who knows what) because of their rank. Because of their rank, they're probably used to getting whatever they want back home, so they brought that attitude here.

The other group of people is treating this as a case of some stupid other passenger, who didn't want to fly with "arabs", and nothing more.

When the basic facts are this unknown, how can anything at all be said in response?


25 Post contains links oly720man : What was said, apparently, was Pakistani officials said the officer, weary from the journey to the US, had said, "I hope this is the final plane to th
26 Post contains images bikerthai : On an airplane or a ship, the captain is king. If you are not taking orders from the captain, you are "off the airplane". If the captain is in the wr
27 Post contains images oldeuropean : With similar incidents in the past month in mind, I wouldn't be surprised when it was something like: "May I have a cup of coffee, please?" Axel
28 blrsea : Dawn is reporting only what the army generals told them. They didn't have a correspondent on the plane listening in. Of course the newspaper is going
29 PW100 : End of story?? Did those "inappropriately made comments" came before or after they were ordered off the plane? End of story? Nothing is clear at this
30 tharanga : I somehow doubt that anything will be clear, ever. I suspect we'll never really know what happened. The only thing we know for sure is who these pass
31 YOWza : Unknowns At this point it's unclear what the delegation was saying/doing prior to being asked to deplane. It's also unclear what the exact complaint w
32 tharanga : We don't know much, but it doesn't look like TSA had anything to do with it. At least, not the decision to pull them off board. That sounds like UA em
33 Trucker : I'm surprised that this Pakistani military delegation headed up by a 2 star general going to some sort of military meeting didn't have a member of the
34 PW100 : That argument could just as easily be turned around by 180 degrees: At a time when the Pakistani people need as much help, cooperation and kindness a
35 PanHAM : You are wrong in many ways. On a ship, the captain is master next to God. That is so, because the next available authority is often days (and in the
36 SA7700 : A fair number of posts were removed from this thread due to various forum rule violations. Please note that any further rule violations will lead to t
37 SSTsomeday : With respect, I think you are in error: I don't agree. Although they may "say it with a smile," and their secondary function is customer service, thei
38 PanHAM : I may not have made myself clear enough when I said that I certainly comply with the normal rules and regulations in air traffic. You will not see me
39 L410Turbolet : They already do pay. And my wild guess it's in a great deal also thanks to the track record of the Pakistani military the rest of the world is not ex
40 Post contains images Woof : Yes, something the rest of the world would never experience from US folk How is that certain? You are combining a fact (that they went home) with you
41 PanHAM : Certainly. But apart from the fact that they were high ranking military brass, this could have happened to anyone else.. Imagine yourself in the situ
42 iairallie : There is zero indication that this is what happened. The Pakistani article even said that the general had misbehaved with the crew. You know if this
43 UALWN : That's what the Pakistani article said. You can't have it both ways. Either you trust the Pakistani article or you don't. But in any case, the Pakist
44 777way : Again crew must have been provoicative for him to lose cool, if he lost his cool as ALLEGED by the airline.
45 jjeff : My view: there's plenty of blame to go around. The original complaining passenger being alarmed about a comment like "I hope this is the final plane t
46 ATTart : You know this how? Where is your proof of this, that the crew member was the one that caused him to lose his cool?
47 777way : Happened with an aunt of mine at JFK despite having multiple entry visa, an all American son-in-law, having travelled extensively to US several times
48 iairallie : Where why don't you quote from it. Show me where it said the crew member was rude and provoked him? If that were true the article would have mentione
49 Post contains links richm : Multiple rule violations have continued to take place in this thread since the warning given in reply 36. As a result, this thread is now locked. Plea
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