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B6 Strikes First..launches BOS-EWR  
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6578 posts, RR: 24
Posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10810 times:

Looks like they don't want WN to even think about BOS-EWR. Don't know where the slots came from.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/JetBlu...ce-prnews-1926446376.html?x=0&.v=1

88 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4646 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10786 times:

B6 finally learned how to keep WN from growing at BOS, they could have done this with PHL STL and PHX.


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16819 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10728 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Thread starter):
Looks like they don't want WN to even think about BOS-EWR. Don't know where the slots came from.

Glad to see B6 launch EWR-BOS, seemed like a natural extension of their BOS growth, but I agree where are the slots coming from?.. I hope they're not robbing their existing routes from EWR.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1989 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10729 times:

Wow. I didn't see that one coming. I was wondering if WN would launch EWR-BOS, but now I doubt it. CO may put up a fight, but B6 has a sizable presence in both markets so it should do fine. I wonder if B6 would also consider BOS-LGA if they could get the slots.

Ironically, B6's COO was recently quoted as saying that flying from Boston to New York was stupid. And now they are doing it even more!

[Edited 2010-08-31 10:11:03]


2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2740 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10698 times:

Well now, geesh.....

For WN, with only 18 slot-pairs, suddenly BOS just doesn't look like it's going to be as fun as it was yesterday.


User currently onlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4646 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10632 times:

WN can still get in on the fun with PVD-EWR... only 4x CO ERJs. Amtrak is full these days and theres no such thing as even a remotely low fare to NYC. Even $99 e/w would be a huge improvement.


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16819 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10571 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 4):
For WN, with only 18 slot-pairs, suddenly BOS just doesn't look like it's going to be as fun as it was yesterday.

W is going to have double (18) the daily flights from EWR as does B6 (9), either someone is leasing B6 some EWR slots or B6 will be cutting some Florida frequencies in order to launch EWR-BOS

Currently B6 offers from EWR;

MCO 4 daily, FLL 3 daily, RSW 1 daily, TPA 1 daily

B6 announced 4 daily for EWR-BOS, so unless they are leasing someone else's EWR slots they have to trim those 9 daily Florida flights down to 5. No more TPA, RSW and FLL down to 1 daily?..



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1861 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10503 times:

This sounded insane at first, but.. CO BOS-EWR is not cheap, and B6 might also be able to draw people back from Amtrak. I'd still probably prefer Amtrak over flying into any of the NY airports if I were going to Manhattan, but not everybody is going into Manhattan.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 3):

Ironically, B6's COO was recently quoted as saying that flying from Boston to New York was stupid.

Anybody have the O&D numbers?


User currently onlineusairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3388 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10362 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 6):
B6 announced 4 daily for EWR-BOS, so unless they are leasing someone else's EWR slots they have to trim those 9 daily Florida flights down to 5. No more TPA, RSW and FLL down to 1 daily?..

What about getting slots from AA. They used to operate BOS-EWR.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16819 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10257 times:

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 8):
What about getting slots from AA. They used to operate BOS-EWR.

How long ago was that?.. I thought AA dropped EWR-BOS before the slot restrictions were implemented at EWR, slot have only been in place at EWR for about 2 years.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1989 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10154 times:

Quoting tharanga (Reply 7):
Anybody have the O&D numbers?

Mine's from 2009 but there is a solid 3477 pax from BOS to all of New York, but that doesn't tell me how much of that is JFK, LGA, or EWR.

The COO's reason for calling BOS-New York stupid was because despite the high demand, you're travelling longer than the actual distance due to takeoff and landing and there should be quicker ways between both cities.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 5):
WN can still get in on the fun with PVD-EWR... only 4x CO ERJs. Amtrak is full these days and theres no such thing as even a remotely low fare to NYC. Even $99 e/w would be a huge improvement.

That's true.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 8):
What about getting slots from AA. They used to operate BOS-EWR.

That's what I was thinking. I hope they aren't cutting back service to other places just to fight for BOS.



2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlinejetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2971 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10130 times:

Bold, interesting move. Kind of surprising - EWR hasn't exactly been a bright star for B6, but everything today seems to be protecting BOS. This move also protects B6 @ NYC, which is nice to see (especially considering management's concentration on everything but NYC lately).

Quoting STT757 (Reply 6):
Currently B6 offers from EWR;

MCO 4 daily, FLL 3 daily, RSW 1 daily, TPA 1 daily

The winter schedule calls for:

FLL - 5
RSW - 2
MCO - 5
TPA - 1
PBI - 2

That's 15 flights. Does B6 has 15 slots at EWR, or are they leased during the summer?

Since the flights to BOS are launching in May, B6 will have 2 extra slots during the duration of the summer (9 Florida + 4 BOS). I guess B6 is buying itself some time to come up with additional slots to keep its high-capacity Florida flights while also offering BOS flights into next winter.



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1861 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10102 times:

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 10):
The COO's reason for calling BOS-New York stupid was because despite the high demand, you're travelling longer than the actual distance due to takeoff and landing and there should be quicker ways between both cities.

Which is why I use Amtrak or even Boltbus for BOS-Manhattan, without even checking airfares.

But so long as there are a lot of people flying BOS-EWR O&D, for whatever reason, there might as well be competition.


User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1438 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10078 times:

Quoting tharanga (Reply 7):
CO BOS-EWR is not cheap

I just get the feeling the New UA did not just only lease 36 slots to WN. They essentially opened up pandora's box at EWR for LCC's and lower prices to take hold. Granted, the slots are still low in numbers. In the long run, they may have started something though...this will hurt at some point.



Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16819 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10057 times:

Quoting peanuts (Reply 13):

I just get the feeling the New UA did not just only lease 36 slots to WN. They essentially opened up pandora's box at EWR for LCC's and lower prices to take hold. Granted, the slots are still low in numbers. In the long run, they may have started something though...this will hurt at some point.

CO/UA will still have over 70% of EWR's traffic.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6710 posts, RR: 32
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days ago) and read 10002 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Thread starter):
Looks like they don't want WN to even think about BOS-EWR.

If WN wants to enter BOS-EWR, they will enter BOS-EWR. If there's room for three carriers between BOS and BWI, there is certainly room for three carriers between BOS and EWR. The fact that B6 has flown BOS-DEN for years didn't keep WN from adding that route twice daily.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 6):
either someone is leasing B6 some EWR slots or B6 will be cutting some Florida frequencies in order to launch EWR-BOS

If WN were to launch EWR-BOS, B6 would be competing at a disadvantage since presumably WN will be able to offer connections and through flights with their EWR slots. The timing (May 2011) does seem to coincide with a natural time to draw down Florida service. Slots at EWR only apply from 0600 to 2259, so some clever scheduling could permit B6 or WN to add a frequency or two without using slots.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 7):
Anybody have the O&D numbers?

BOS-EWR O&D is low, but that's due in no small part to the outrageous fares.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5449 posts, RR: 29
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days ago) and read 9947 times:

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 8):
What about getting slots from AA. They used to operate BOS-EWR.

That was my thought as well. Maybe AA is leasing JetBlue some EWR slots so that they can do the dirty work with WN. Regardless, these non-legacy carriers are certainly keeping things interesting.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinecontrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days ago) and read 9910 times:

Wow, this went public quick. They tell us not to leak it on an e mail I got this morning and bam, there it is out in the public. LOL


Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7036 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days ago) and read 9888 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Thread starter):
Looks like they don't want WN to even think about BOS-EWR. Don't know where the slots came from.
Quoting enilria (Reply 121):
BOS: There is a war going on with B6 for BOS, WN will want to block this route.
Quoting enilria (Reply 121):
BOS 4
MDW 6
LAS 1
DEN 2
PHX 1
MCO 2
FLL 2

Well, I nailed this in the WN EWR thread. I was already expecting WN to add it. I was the only one. Apparently B6 also thought so.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5449 posts, RR: 29
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days ago) and read 9868 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 18):
Well, I nailed this in the WN EWR thread. I was already expecting WN to add it. I was the only one. Apparently B6 also thought so.

LOL. Your Brownie Button is in the mail.  

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineboslax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days ago) and read 9848 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 1):
B6 finally learned how to keep WN from growing at BOS

In the first year of service at BOS, WN has grown to a total of 26 daily departures to 6 nonstop markets. The only thing stopping WN from growing further is the lack of gates.


User currently onlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4646 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days ago) and read 9748 times:

Quoting boslax (Reply 20):
In the first year of service at BOS, WN has grown to a total of 26 daily departures to 6 nonstop markets. The only thing stopping WN from growing further is the lack of gates.

If B6 added BOS-PHL instead of BOS-BWI, there is no way WN would have added PHL, same as if B6 had added STL.

BWI was stupid on B6's part because its not like they were going to run WN off. WN's growth at BOS was a function of them picking up strategic competitive vacancies from BOS (PHL, PHX, STL).



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7036 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days ago) and read 9711 times:

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 3):
I was wondering if WN would launch EWR-BOS, but now I doubt it.

I have the exact opposite view.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 15):
If WN wants to enter BOS-EWR, they will enter BOS-EWR. If there's room for three carriers between BOS and BWI, there is certainly room for three carriers between BOS and EWR.
Quoting ScottB (Reply 15):
BOS-EWR O&D is low, but that's due in no small part to the outrageous fares.

If we looked at back at the People Express era the market was huge, it'll come back when B6 and WN start WWIII.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6710 posts, RR: 32
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days ago) and read 9667 times:

Quoting boslax (Reply 20):
The only thing stopping WN from growing further is the lack of gates.

They can probably expand into E1D & E1E, and likely could use E2A and/or E2B for much of the day. (Is Porter using these gates?) WN probably has enough space to grow to 50-60 daily departures from BOS.


User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1861 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days ago) and read 9646 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 22):

If we looked at back at the People Express era the market was huge, it'll come back when B6 and WN start WWIII.

Couple things.

1. How much of that was O&D? That's the same CO EWR hub we're talking about.

2. I think Amtrak is now more attractive relative to flying, than it was back then.

and the students are now taking internet-enabled buses for dirt cheap.

[Edited 2010-08-31 11:57:16]

25 RL757PVD : A Market like BOS-EWR would really need over 7-8x to truly be competitive, WN has less than 10% market share on both ends. why would they waste 1/2 o
26 Flighty : Good thing the government will be protecting UACO from an actual large battle here. UACO will be laughing their butts off when these timid little thin
27 atrude777 : What connection are you guys looking at for BOS-EWR in terms of WN? There are no connections to be had EWR-BOS-XXX on WN side. It will have to origina
28 Post contains images rampart : Could CO/UA be leasing more slots, not just to WN? That would calm the bias storm brewing. Though, it could also be from AA, as suggested above. So s
29 ScottB : But there are few, if any, logical connections on B6 via BOS. Are people really going to fly EWR-BOS-BUF, EWR-BOS-FLL, EWR-BOS-LGB, EWR-BOS-RDU, EWR-
30 STT757 : EWR is slot controlled, and then there's the lack of gates.
31 rampart : True. I can only go so far with the DEN analogy. Still, I wonder if this isn't the start of some future unravelling. -Rampart
32 RL757PVD : Every time I've checked the shuttles, they were under $150 e/w 1-2 weeks out. So its not like the shuttle is that unreasonable. The price sensitive p
33 B752OS : New York-Boston is easily one of the largest business markets in the country, probably only behind NYC-Chicago. Does CO carry a lot of connecting tra
34 ScottB : And BOS-BWI is $52 each way 1-2 weeks out. The inexpensive Shuttle tickets are often restricted to mid-day departures as well. B6 (and WN if they sta
35 Post contains images RL757PVD : and chances are people paying that won't be interested in one of WN's four daily departures Whats a given for EWR: 5x MDW pick 3 of the following: 2x
36 CODC10 : Great news... I look forward to CO matching B6's fares in the market.
37 ScottB : Chances are that WN wouldn't charge $600 round-trip for BOS-EWR; the maximum fare would be more like $250-300 round-trip. WN isn't likely to have 5%
38 vin2basketball : OK, so EWR-BOS Q1 2010 494 pax pd avg fare: $326.01 Yield: $1.63 BOS-EWR Q1 2010 499 pax pd avg fare: $327.01 Yield: $1.64 Those fares are extraordina
39 FlyPNS1 : True. The question is whether it's worth WN using their limited number of slots to duke it out with B6 and CO or should they use the slots more strat
40 Post contains images airbazar : EWR-BOS-LHR (AA codeshare) EWR-BOS-CDG (AA codeshare) EWR-BOS-FRA (LH codeshare) EWR-BOS-MUC (LH codeshare)
41 RL757PVD : I dont dissagre that WN could't make BOS-EWR work well... Im just saying that it would take at least 7-8 if not more slots to do it, and BOS-EWR has
42 tharanga : There's also the Ireland links on EI. Why you'd go NYC-BOS-Europe is beyond me, but it's a sensible connection for much of the rest of the country.
43 ScottB : I'll be stunned if AA's BOS-CDG returns next summer. It wouldn't be much of a surprise for BOS-LHR to go all-BA, either. ORF-JAX doesn't have much ne
44 Post contains images AirframeAS : Increase service at DEN, now that is a TOTAL bloodbath!
45 airbazar : NYC-BOS-Europe make a whole lot more sense than BOS-NYC/PHL/IAD/ATL/ORD-Europe and that happens by the hundreds every day.
46 jetbluefan1 : I think the major difference is that there are plenty of non-stop NYC-Europe options, while BOS-Europe options are much more limited. That being said
47 MaverickM11 : That's an unfair comparison, seeing as BOSBWI has an irrational amount of service not because the market is large, but because three carriers are def
48 ScottB : If BOS-PHL is any indication, Southwest's walk-up/refundable fare for BOS-EWR would likely be around $120-130 if they were to add the route; that's c
49 TOMMY767 : AA dropped EWR-BOS in early 2007. They started it in 2001. I always said it would be a matter of time before B6 started up EWR-BOS. Things are starti
50 Post contains images KingFriday013 : Is LGA-BOS even available? I thought that it was now limited to DL and US with their respective Shuttle services, and AA with the ERJs. JFK and EWR a
51 Post contains images jerseyguy : Enjoy your cheap fares if everyone followed your lead B6 would leave EWR-BOS and your fares would return to the monopoly fares that you have now. The
52 Blueman87 : not to Offend any but My Oppion is Amtrak makes more sense on the Northeast Corrider from NY anyway No need to go through the hassle of Flying? No th
53 atrude777 : As long as you have slots out of LGA, anyone can fly BOS-LGA. Right now it is Delta and US Airways and American flying it. WN can start up BOS-LGA to
54 Flytravel : In addition to Europe, I think EWR-BOS-SEA and EWR-BOS-west coast markets, if priced right, might attract some. It might take one 1 hours -90 mins lo
55 TOLtommy : PVD isn't BOS to WN anymore. And I doubt PVD would be a good use of those slots.
56 apodino : I don't get what B6 is trying to accomplish here. They already have a number of JFK-BOS flights, and I don't think there are that many O and D pax goi
57 ISP2 : How quickly you people all forget... B6 has been sitting on EWR slots for a long time, they aren't getting them from AA or anyone else. Go back to the
58 MAH4546 : It's returning. ATI makes this route a lot stronger.
59 crAAzy : I would also tend to agree with some of the posts suggesting they are getting the slots from AA. AA has nothing to lose giving up slots out of EWR now
60 RL757PVD : I agree, the problem is that the Acela trains are mostly full these days and they arent adding any seats. I agree, for the most part... the point I w
61 PlanesNTrains : Then time for Amtrak to raise the prices and cut the subsidy use a tad. I know, wishful thinking. -Dave
62 tharanga : ABE is getting a new director now, so there might be changes. But with LCCs now doing non-Florida routes out of PHL and EWR, I don't know if ABE is e
63 MSYtristar : Prices aren't that cheap for the Acela trains to begin with, especially compared to the Regional trains. And if they cut the subsidies, service will
64 RL757PVD : There is a fundamental difference between Amtrak and the airlines.... Amtrak has to build and maintain the infrastructure, airlines aren't building r
65 tharanga : but a good fraction of that air infrastructure is coming from passenger fees, not general revenue.
66 MSYtristar : Yep, I never said there wasn't, I was just responding to the previous comment. Amtrak isn't even as well funded as some say it should be...they are m
67 B752OS : I have been on flights before, BOS-IAD, BOS-RIC, BOS-BWI on B6 and talked with people who were flying SFO-BOS-RIC, SEA-BOS-IAD, etc. So people do con
68 airbazar : You don't think this is reason enough? A lot of money to be made on that route and yes, that is O&D pax. It's already pretty expensive, more so t
69 airbazar : You don't think this is reason enough? A lot of money to be made on that route and yes, that is O&D pax. It's already pretty expensive, more so t
70 ScottB : Sure, I've done my share of crazy connections, too -- when it's cheap. I have a ticket booked for BZE-IAH-PHX-EWR-BOS because it was $200 cheaper tha
71 RL757PVD : Most PFC's go to non-federally elegible items like terminal improvements Yes there are some taxes that help fund it, but if the airlines built and ma
72 Post contains images apodino : I don't even think they could add capacity on the Acela if they wanted to, unless Bombardier was willing to build them more trainsets (Yes bombardier
73 TxAgKuwait : If there were no slot constraints, then yes, WN would be flying EWR-BOS. Perhaps hourly. At a walk up fare of roughly $130 each way and with advance p
74 PlanesNTrains : My point was simply that, if their seats are generally always full and they can't add more capacity, then they should logically be raising prices to
75 RL757PVD : Let the bargain hunters take the bus... with limited slot resources, those demanding the fastest service should pay a premium. In no case should the
76 BOStonsox : Actually, the Connecticut section is not owned by Metro North, it's owned by the Connecticut DOT. But the rest from the New York state line to New Ro
77 tharanga : I'd give up on the I-95 route, and upgrade the inland route. Not sure who owns that track, though. Freight, I guess. I absolutely think slots should
78 RL757PVD : The inland route is less direct than the I-95 route, it goes up to Hartford, then Springfield, then over and many cases its a single track, plus the
79 tharanga : Depends on what happens to fares. US is apparently doing that ridiculous thing because it's the way to use the slots, while losing the least amount o
80 airbazar : For the same reason airlines won't do it: Competition. There's a fine line between high occupancy and risk leaving with too many empty seats. Amtrak
81 ScottB : Does Binghamton really need air service to NYC? The drive via Scranton can be done in under three hours. New Yorkers have to bear the burden of the a
82 RL757PVD : 3 hours if you time it right, into manhattan can easily run you 4-5 if you dont...New York service would be used, where I work, we have some business
83 tharanga : I agree. Amtrak goes full now, but with competition in the air and on the road, I wouldn't be surprised if their revenues fall dramatically if they r
84 exFATboy : But what if you're a Boston-originating passenger whose business (or pleasure) is in northern or central New Jersey, not Manhattan? NJ has many corpo
85 Blueman87 : they are buying more train cars there goin to renemw there fleet by 2023 supossely
86 PlanesNTrains : Fine. Perhaps. Well, all I know is I'm hearing that the trains are generally always full. Perhaps they have tried raising fares slightly and found th
87 exFATboy : I can think of two reasons why Amtrak isn't adding capacity: * Practicality - it's very difficult for them to add frequencies because of certain chok
88 COEWR787 : Actually the choke point is not New York but the drawbridges between New Haven and New London. There is an agreement in place between the State of Co
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