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Any News On DL 787's?  
User currently offlinefpetrutiu From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 901 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3863 times:

Doing a quick research on trying to figure out updated delivery dates for the DL/NW 787's, I came across this article from April this year from dallasnews.com

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...oeing-787-may-not-land-at-del.html

Do you guys think that DL will not take delivery of those 18 787's? Would they sell their spots or maybe switch spots to other airlines? Has any of that occured yet or are they still on track to start taking deliveries in 2013 as planned (after the delays)?

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinesimpilot459 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3656 times:

I know some of their earlier slots have been switched/sold to other airlines already. I believe Royal Air Moroc and LAN or LOT (can't remeber which at the moment) took some of their early slots. I don't know anything about their plans or first deliveries yet, though. Still listed as having 18 on order on Boeing's website.


Take off: Optional Landing: Mandatory
User currently offlinedelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3506 times:

You missed some rather stronly worded arguments on the subject a few months ago.  

There is a camp here that says DL will cancel them and order more 777s. There is another, much more sensible [and no doubt handsome, suave and debonair   ] camp that sees the 787 as making far too much sense for DL to ever be cancelled when they can just delay the slots with very little penalty at this point.

No doubt DL and Boeing and having some interesting meetings, with DL trying to get as much out of Boeing as possible in the way of further inducements to keep the order, and Boeing doing as much as they can to keep DL on board, as this is an airline that will end up owning rather a lot of planes in that capacity range.

[Edited 2010-08-31 13:38:24]

User currently offlinegoldenstate From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 583 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3363 times:
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Quoting delimit (Reply 2):

There is a camp here that says DL will cancel them and order more 777s. There is another, much more sensible [and no doubt handsome, suave and debonair ] camp that sees the 787 as making far too much sense for DL to ever be cancelled when they can just delay the slots with very little penalty at this point.

The answer probably lies somewhere between these two groups. Absolutely correct though that the 787 is perfect for DL in the long run. Nevertheless, the fact remains that the widebody fleet as a whole is undergauged and in an ideal world, DL might have 15-20 less 763ER and 15-20 more 77E/77L or equivalent size/capability a/c.


User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2858 posts, RR: 48
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3209 times:

Quoting delimit (Reply 2):
There is a camp here that says DL will cancel them and order more 777s. There is another, much more sensible [and no doubt handsome, suave and debonair ] camp that sees the 787 as making far too much sense for DL to ever be cancelled when they can just delay the slots with very little penalty at this point.
Quoting goldenstate (Reply 3):
Absolutely correct though that the 787 is perfect for DL in the long run.

Nobody who can authoritatively state Delta's intentions with certainty is at all likely to do so here. I personally have no dog in this fight, but if the 787 was as perfect for Delta as its proponents make it out to be, Delta would have undoubtedly followed the lead of Continental (and others) and confirmed their position on the program at this point; in fact they passed on early delivery slots in favor of a strategy that they have not yet publicly defined. Perhaps they are waiting to see the in-service experience of other carriers first, perhaps this, that, or the other; publicly it's all speculation at this point, while Delta's actual strategy regarding the aircraft is held very close to the vest.

Good for Delta: I hope they get the very best possible deal out of Boeing on whatever aircraft they eventually choose to take from them.


User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3125 times:

Personally I think it's that DL is happily deferring pretty much any major capital expenditure it can for as long as it can. Of course, you can't really say that to Boeing re: the 787s or Boeing (who probably suspects as much anyway) will stop playing ball with those slots it hasn't missed. But, as you say, we're never going to hear a word about why we aren't hearing about the 787s until we hear about them.

As for the perfection of the 787, it doesn't really mean much when it's even more perfect for your company not to be carrying around a stupefyingly high amount of debt. If this were about the plane, they'd cancel and order something else.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7000 posts, RR: 63
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2970 times:

Let's not forget that the 787s were ordered by and for the pre-merger NW. They obviously fitted NW's model but they may not be such an immediately ideal fit for the new post-merger DL.

Secondly, they were scheduled to be early-build aircraft and at least some will be overweight. DL, understandably, pushed deliveries to the right.

Thirdly, the 787s were ordered before the GFC and a huge collapse in the market. Small wonder that DL feel they can take their time.

My guess is that DL fully expects to operate the 787 in significant numbers in the fullness of time. (What's the alternative?) But they are taking their time to reassess the post-merger landscape, the progress of the 787, and the recovery of the market.

Their slots have been deferred but we can be sure that their arrangement with Boeing will allow DL to return to the party more or less at any time of their choice. They will not have to go to the back of the queue!

When they're ready, they'll be back. And it won't be for just 18...


User currently offlineflybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2699 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 6):
My guess is that DL fully expects to operate the 787 in significant numbers in the fullness of time. (What's the alternative?) But they are taking their time to reassess the post-merger landscape, the progress of the 787, and the recovery of the market.


I have to agree with this statement. Pre-merger I think Delta was an all Boeing airline. I think once they begin rationalizing the fleet they may want to replace the A330s and older 767s. It seems to me that Delta is waiting for the 787-9. If the 787-9 operates within spec. it will be the perfect replacement aircraft for Delta's current mid-sized long range jets. I think Delta will only make fleet renewal announcements when they have a few successive profitable quarters.



"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7000 posts, RR: 63
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2641 times:

It has just been announced that Air China has switched their order for 787-8s to 787-9s and has delayed delivery until 2015.

Are you watching, Delta...?  


User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2603 times:

Quoting flybyguy (Reply 7):

I have to agree with this statement. Pre-merger I think Delta was an all Boeing airline. I think once they begin rationalizing the fleet they may want to replace the A330s and older 767s. It seems to me that Delta is waiting for the 787-9. If the 787-9 operates within spec. it will be the perfect replacement aircraft for Delta's current mid-sized long range jets. I think Delta will only make fleet renewal announcements when they have a few successive profitable quarters.

The 789 would be to large to replace Delta's 763 fleet. I'd look for a mixed order, and IMO the 8 would be a great aircraft for long thin routes.

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 3):

The answer probably lies somewhere between these two groups. Absolutely correct though that the 787 is perfect for DL in the long run. Nevertheless, the fact remains that the widebody fleet as a whole is undergauged and in an ideal world, DL might have 15-20 less 763ER and 15-20 more 77E/77L or equivalent size/capability a/c.

              
I would pay to see 22 more ERs and 10 or so LRs.



yep.
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