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QFs RR 767 Question  
User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 761 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 1 month 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4637 times:

I know they came from BA origionally on long term lease but are they owned fully by QF now? I was suprised they took them in the first place seeing that they already operated GE/PW 767s at the time.

I wonder if BA will require them back when QF retires them within the next year or so for 787 delay cover as from what I have heard BAs 767s are used heavily as it is. I wonder if a few more would add a bit of ease to the fleet scheduling and allow more 767 sectors.

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5682 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4432 times:

Quoting BA174 (Thread starter):
I know they came from BA origionally on long term lease but are they owned fully by QF now?

They have been sold by BA, but NOT brought by QF. They are owned by fincial syndicates and leased to QF. There was a thread, or it might have been part of the Aust. Aviation thread, about this earlier in the year.

Quoting BA174 (Thread starter):
I was suprised they took them in the first place seeing that they already operated GE/PW 767s at the time.

True, but QF operate the same type of RR engines (more or less) on most of their B744s.

Quoting BA174 (Thread starter):
I wonder if BA will require them back when QF retires them within the next year or so

Up to the current owners, I guess, who probably not be adverse to to getting more lease payments. But will QF actually retire them in a year or so? Who knows, but don't hold your breath!

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 845 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4399 times:

Why did QF originally take them? Couldn't they just get new builts from Boeing with GE's?

User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5682 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4355 times:

Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 2):
Why did QF originally take them? Couldn't they just get new builts from Boeing with GE's?

Due to delays with the A380 and B787 and they were relatively cheap. QF by now should have just about all their A380s and about 30 B787s instead of just 6 A380s. They also brought more A330s too, of course.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlinecharliecossie From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 479 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4193 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 3):
Due to delays with the A380 and B787

Are you sure about that? The 380 and 787 were already late 10 years ago?
 


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5682 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4160 times:

Quoting charliecossie (Reply 4):
Are you sure about that? The 380 and 787 were already late 10 years ago?

Yes!

They were orginally LEASED to cover the time gap untill the A330 were recived. It went on from there thru many twists and turns.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4135 times:

Er um. I should know better than to argue but

http://www.theqantassource.com/b763.html

1992 QANTAS bought Australian Airlines and was permitted to carry passengers within Australia for the first time. Further 767 deliveries through the 1990s brought 767s onto the new domestic network. The need for increased domestic capacity saw QANTAS take seven Rolls-Royce powered 767s from British Airways. Due to their different internal specifications, including different galleys, these have been restricted to the domestic network since their arrival.

http://www.aussieairliners.org/b-767/vh-zxa/vhzxa.html

Leased to Qantas Airways Ltd - June 29, 2000

Flew acceptance flight in full Qantas Livery at London - July 24, 2000

Cancelled from U.K. Aircraft Register - August 7, 2000

Entered onto Australian Aircraft Register as VH-ZXA - August 8, 2000


The first 330s were delivered at the back end of 2003. Was it really a delay in 330s or a delay in ordering them? Bit of a difference??? Have I found something that is not a problem caused by Airbus? Perish the thought!


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4929 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4079 times:

Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 2):
Why did QF originally take them? Couldn't they just get new builts from Boeing with GE's?

QF originally took on these 7 B767 RR or Ace Galley aircraft due to the 2000 Olympics and the collapse of Ansett...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5682 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4043 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 8):
QF originally took on these 7 B767 RR or Ace Galley aircraft due to the 2000 Olympics and the collapse of Ansett..

Ok, Ok they were originally leased because of the Olympics & Ansett, but they were kept longer than planned due to delays in aircraft deliveries.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4929 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4018 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 9):
Ok, Ok they were originally leased because of the Olympics & Ansett, but they were kept longer than planned due to delays in aircraft deliveries.

and rolling delay of the Airbus fleet  EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4009 times:

Just a note - The Aircraft have been used Trans-Tasman and were at least ONCE used on a flight to NRT.

User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4929 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3972 times:

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 11):
The Aircraft have been used Trans-Tasman and were at least ONCE used on a flight to NRT.

Yes, correct...

NRT service??? When??? How??? That would of been interesting to see how they managed to fit 2 services, bars and drystores on a NRT service with those terrible ace galleys...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinecharliecossie From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 479 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3912 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 12):
That would of been interesting to see how they managed to fit 2 services, bars and drystores on a NRT service with those terrible ace galleys...

How do BA manage it?


User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3899 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 12):
NRT service??? When??? How??? That would of been interesting to see how they managed to fit 2 services, bars and drystores on a NRT service with those terrible ace galleys...

I had asked about the 767RRs on International services before on this forum and someone assured me that it had once operated a PER-NRT flight. I believe it was stated there were some differences in the service....I'll find out

What's the difference between the ACE galleys and the standard galleys? It seems that Qantas Cabin Crew hate the 767RRs!


User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3893 times:

Response from fellow forum member Ditzyboy in a post from earlier in the year.

"An ex-BA 763 has operated a PER-NRT rotation due to aircraft serviceability issues. A friend operated the flight around 2002-2003. The catering had to be substantially altered due to galley limitations. Economy had cold, boxed meals."


User currently offlinecharliecossie From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 479 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3882 times:

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 15):
Economy had cold, boxed meals."

I wonder why they didn't use the ovens to heat some meals for cattle class. Like BA do on their Ace 767s....


User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 761 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3745 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 12):
Yes, correct...

NRT service??? When??? How??? That would of been interesting to see how they managed to fit 2 services, bars and drystores on a NRT service with those terrible ace galleys...
Quoting Jackbr (Reply 15):
Response from fellow forum member Ditzyboy in a post from earlier in the year.

"An ex-BA 763 has operated a PER-NRT rotation due to aircraft serviceability issues. A friend operated the flight around 2002-2003. The catering had to be substantially altered due to galley limitations. Economy had cold, boxed meals."

BA seem to send the 767-336ERs to Africa, Russia, Cyprus, middle America and the middle east with full hot meals etc. Did QF modify the aircraft then that stopped this being possible?


User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3654 times:

Not sure this is at all true, but I think the issue is the galleys can't cope with Qantas' Long Haul service offerings. They definitely serve hot meals from the aircraft on domestic flights, they may not have room for all that Qantas offers on it's flights?

User currently offlinecharliecossie From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 479 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3627 times:

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 18):
Qantas' Long Haul service offerings

Then they shouldn't be able to cope with BA's long haul offerings either but they do.
BA even flew 'em around with First, Club and Traveler for years.
So let's agree there's nowt wrong with the galleys?


User currently offlinesmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1536 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3527 times:

Quoting charliecossie (Reply 19):

Then they shouldn't be able to cope with BA's long haul offerings either but they do.
BA even flew 'em around with First, Club and Traveler for years.
So let's agree there's nowt wrong with the galleys?

But these are domestically configured aircraft, they don't have the galleys equipped (upon delivery or as a result of reconfiguration) for First, international business service, why would QF fly all that extra weight around on domestic services?

Some of the minor differences include the ovens and storages, I don't think they can take as many carts as some of the international configured 767s can, but I could be wrong.

I remember some QF crew telling me something that they also had problems going to PVG, PEK and maybe BOM with the A330s, as they could not fit enough carts on for their full services, does anyone have any details?

I think Ditzyboy will have all the answers that we need!!  


User currently offlinecharliecossie From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 479 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3512 times:

All BA 767s have the same galleys. whether shorthaul or longhaul cabin config. So unless Qantas have modified them in some way they are capable of doing the job.

User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3468 times:

Quoting charliecossie (Reply 20):
All BA 767s have the same galleys. whether shorthaul or longhaul cabin config. So unless Qantas have modified them in some way they are capable of doing the job.

Perhaps but you're not comparing like with like. Evidently QF's international catering does not fit the BA-configured galleys. Different airlines, different standards. I'm not sure why you'd labour the point, but for whatever reason, the galleys are enough of a problem to limit the aircraft's operation for Qf. It's been brought up a lot on here by QF crew.


User currently offlinecharliecossie From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 479 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3449 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 21):
I'm not sure why you'd labour the point

Because the galleys are not the problem. The operator is the problem.
Exit.


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3408 times:

Quoting charliecossie (Reply 22):
Because the galleys are not the problem. The operator is the problem.
Exit.

Sigh, I suppose you could take that position. But you could argue that about any aspect of business, especially in aviation. Still begs the question... so?

Perhaps the operator doesn't believe the expense involved in adjusting its catering systems to one very small subfleet warrants the effort, and it can get by with limiting ops to domestic-only.

From the viewpoint of the QF staff that actually have to use them, it sounds like a bit of a pain. I think that's about the limit of interest on the matter in the forum. No one's having a dig at BA or Boeing if that's the impression.


User currently offlineAirbus A3XX From Australia, joined May 1999, 507 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3402 times:

From an Inflight perspective, the 767RRs only have capacity to fit one meal worth of offering, which is basically what QF would require on a domestic service.

The dimension/standards of the ovens, carts and boxes used on the 767RRs from BA are still fitted with BA ACE galley equipment standard and is totally different from what Qantas currently use on the rest of the fleet, hence from an inflight equipment perspective the 767RRs are also being considered as a separate fleet type.


25 BA174 : I think we are getting our wires crossed here the point I and Charliecossie are making is that all BA 767-336ERs have the same galleys whether they ar
26 1stfl94 : I had thought that BA sent QF those 767s as part of the JSA. BA pulled out of most of the Australian cities they served (PER, BNE and ADL and later on
27 BA174 : Nope nothing to do with the JSA. At the time BA tried to shift their entire fleet of RR 767s to QF and later had talks with the RAF but then the indu
28 Viscount724 : How could the QF acquisition of the BA 767s have been related to 787 delays? The 787 hadn't even been launched then.
29 BA174 : Exactly it was probably to get additional 767 frames quick and cheeper than production fresh aircraft. The only way this could be linked to 787 delay
30 vv701 : The ex-BA 763s were involved in two seperate financial transactions as follows. In mid 2000 BA sold the aircraft to Opal Leasing. They then leased th
31 gemuser : Thank you, that is right. I had forgotten about the Ansett collapse part of it. Gemuser
32 pugsley : Correct, as the galleys are very different. The difference is in the carts that each type of galley takes. On the RR, or ACE as the crew call them be
33 EK413 : You comparing a BA product to QF product... 2 carriers with 2 totally different business and economy class products... What's the difference between
34 BA174 : I wonder if the logistics of offering F on the 767s is what caused BA to stop offering F on the the type then. Interesting I always thought the lease
35 TN486 : I feel that a look at timelines of events re BA 767 leases to QF/ major events in Australia/ and the airline industry in OZ is now in order. Nov 1999
36 Post contains images ditzyboy : I have witnessed first hand (in 2008) the differing layouts of BA's 763s. Please find below photos in support of differing galley layouts on BA's 763
37 Post contains links BA174 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwtZrmX7ljo A short haul 767 video guide BAs short-haul 767s need a bit of a makeover to say the least. I would hate to
38 ditzyboy : That shows a galley configuration that mirrors exactly the Qantas configuration. This would not support an international inflight service.[Edited 201
39 BA174 : They did convert a few to long-haul a couple of years ago so I wonder if this meant that they changed the doors 2 galley around to match the legacy lo
40 ditzyboy : A couple of years ago, the Long Haul 763s went through a 'dusking' process where F was removed and the new (at the time!) Club World and WT+ products
41 vv701 : 'Dusking' of BA's long haul 763s started in 2004 and continued into early 2005. During the refurbishment of the cabins the 763s were the last BA long
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