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Turkish Aviation September 2010  
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4422 posts, RR: 12
Posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 16089 times:

Hello aviation friends, summer is flying away and here we are getting closer to fall 2010.
It has been a very busy summer for Turkish aviation and thanks for all posters for keeping our threads informational, fun and free of things not related to Turkish Aviation.

OK here we go, lets start with ever growing TK special livery planes. Besides the 3 x Star Alliance painted frames and the FC Barcelona and Man United 77Ws, and the new paint scheme 738; here are 4 special liveries:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Cengiz Arda
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Photo © Kenan Zorlu (Spot TR)


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Photo © Mehmet Mustafa CELIK
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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mehmet Mustafa CELIK



More news and rumors:
-TK to start IST-IAD-ATL-IAD-IST find more about it here:
TK's IAD Flight To Be IST-IAD-ATL-IAD-IST (by TK787 Aug 21 2010 in Civil Aviation)
-I think finally we will see the first TK 330-300 this month in service, TC-JNH. Looking forward to the new paint scheme, seat plan and the whole new interior branding.
-First TK owned 77W should be delivered either this month or next. Again, looking forward to this new Y, Y+, J 3-class frames. What will they be named?
-Thanks to a.net member "tcm", check out the TK Facebook page and FC Barca traveling to Korea on the 77W pics:
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/...lbum.php?aid=211946&id=90430042759
-Please visit airlinequality pages about TK and the latest customer reviews:
http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/turkish.htm
-Borajet decided to stop flights to Alanya's Gazipasa airport, due to low loads. Now TK is said to be interested when/if the runway extended, technology upgraded.
-I came across some code for TK jets, like 33B( I think this is the BMI 332), what is 72Z or TC2 (is that the presidential 319?)
-2 x daily Denizli TK flights to start again after airport work is completed
-AnadoluJet will fly ESB-Moscow next month and by 2011 TK wants to fly to 10 destinations in Russia.
-IST runway 5/23 is finally getting its ILS??
-There will be a new TK commercial featuring FC Barcelona players in Oct. 2010
-There are news that TK might start Duty Free sales on board, forming its own subsidiary.
-Turkish Minister of Transportation Yildirim says Istanbul will have a 60mil pax capacity airport by 2023 and Turkey will have 2 more 30mil pax and 3 more 15 mil pax airports by then. Any ideas where will all these airport go?
-In last months news, TK's chief explained that TK received offers from 12 different airlines to form partnerships. TK is serious about 2 offers, 1 from Russia and another one from Tanzania.
-TK to form a partnership company with TAI to manufacture airplane galleys??
-TK's Kotil in a speech on 8/26 mentioned that they will be getting 12 x 77Ws with "360" seats and 24 ton Cargo space??
360 seats??? 24 tons??? TK's current 77Ws have a 57 ton capacity according to TK's website. AF 77Ws have a cargo capacity of 55tons. Where did this 24 ton/ 360 seats come from??
-Turkish Domestic scene is about to get crowded. Besides TK, AnadoluJet, Sunexpress, Atlasjet, Pegasus, Onur, Borajet, Izair now we have Sky, Turkuaz and Saga coming into the picture soon.
and finally from last months thread
-A.net member "louA340" is asking about the loads on ACC tag on the IST-LOS flights?

Looking forward to hearing from all of you guys.
Happy landings to all.

178 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinegokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 15918 times:

Hey TK787 first I want to thank you for these monthly threads, I think August was record participation, and the threads became the go to source for all anetters regarding anything Turkish aviation related, nicely done.

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
-TK to start IST-IAD-ATL-IAD-IST find more about it here

Was very surprising to hear that and I think it'll be really tough for them in ATL, but lets see how it develops.

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
-I think finally we will see the first TK 330-300 this month in service, TC-JNH. Looking forward to the new paint scheme, seat plan and the whole new interior branding.
-First TK owned 77W should be delivered either this month or next. Again, looking forward to this new Y, Y+, J 3-class frames. What will they be named?

By October 15 we'll see 1 new type and 2 new configs for TK really exciting, I hope they don't screw up the branding like they did with the new c/s.

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
-Borajet decided to stop flights to Alanya's Gazipasa airport, due to low loads. Now TK is said to be interested when/if the runway extended, technology upgraded.

A very close family friend is involved with borajet and while in Turkey had a chance to discuss regarding this start up, and I was surprised how serious the gentleman behind this airline is as well as how well they are regarding finances, I expect good things from them, if I would launch my airline in Turkey this would be it.



Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
User currently offlinefoxbravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2996 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 15809 times:

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
-I think finally we will see the first TK 330-300 this month in service, TC-JNH. Looking forward to the new paint scheme, seat plan and the whole new interior branding.

Saw this aircraft doing what appeared to be a rejected takeoff test at Toulouse this morning--I guess it will be flying soon if it isn't already. Looked very sharp, with the new tail logo.



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 15691 times:

Wizzair are launching IST from December.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25062 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15671 times:

I hear Saga Airlines is getting into the scheduled service game, with a "focus city" of Trabzon.

Quoting gokmengs (Reply 1):
A very close family friend is involved with borajet and while in Turkey had a chance to discuss regarding this start up, and I was surprised how serious the gentleman behind this airline is as well as how well they are regarding finances, I expect good things from them, if I would launch my airline in Turkey this would be it.

I love the concept of large prop in Turkey as there are tons of markets that could be linked and lots of opportunity to get people out of buses while also providing feed for a big boy and as a result I had high hopes for Bora, but sadly their execution to date has been nothing but an embarrassment. Their rapid non coherent entry and exit from markets (sometimes only 30-45 days apart), often bizarre route and frequency selection have had me (and the consumer) scratching our heads. No wonder they have had some flights with only 3-5 passengers onboard.

From what I have seen to date, sadly I think these guys might be better off with their corporate jet business then running a regional carrier.

Quoting 777way (Reply 3):
Wizzair are launching IST from December.

yes posted last month.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4422 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15584 times:

Turkish Minister of Transportation Yildirim announces that they agreed to get the 800 acres at IST from the TAF for 300mil. TL.
Also IST have plans to build a 3rd runway apart from the current military area

http://www.airkule.com/default.asp?page=haber&id=9532 (in Turkish)

3rd runway? I guess the parallel 18/36 doesn't count, maybe he means to further separate the two?
Still, it is nice to see all these things we have been talking about for many years, finally taking place. What is next? How about a 350/787 order?


User currently offlinecmoltay From Turkey, joined Jun 2007, 132 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 15554 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
Quoting gokmengs (Reply 1):A very close family friend is involved with borajet and while in Turkey had a chance to discuss regarding this start up, and I was surprised how serious the gentleman behind this airline is as well as how well they are regarding finances, I expect good things from them, if I would launch my airline in Turkey this would be it.
I love the concept of large prop in Turkey as there are tons of markets that could be linked and lots of opportunity to get people out of buses while also providing feed for a big boy and as a result I had high hopes for Bora, but sadly their execution to date has been nothing but an embarrassment. Their rapid non coherent entry and exit from markets (sometimes only 30-45 days apart), often bizarre route and frequency selection have had me (and the consumer) scratching our heads. No wonder they have had some flights with only 3-5 passengers onboard.

Is Borajet related to Onur Air, they seem to be using the same online reservation software?

Meanwhile, after years of flying between Bodrum and İstanbul, this weekend I used a bus service, the double lane roads and the quality of the buses & the service, with WiFi & IFE (with video on demand movies etc.), only three seats in a row and a very comfortable pitch, offered a very smooth ride and in eleven and a half hrs., incl. stops, we were in Istanbul (in my case door to door was 12.15 hrs.). Yes, the duration of the journey cannot be compared to an airline journey but the hassle is certainly less and the comfort equal and the price was 120 TL, last minute booking. I can understand why regional low profile carriers are having a heard time being rooted in the Turkish market and why TK is very keen to fight a price war using AnadoluJet.

Regards,

[Edited 2010-09-02 03:12:38]

User currently offlineTK773ER From Australia, joined Jun 2010, 167 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 15531 times:

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):



Thanks for keeping these threads exciting and informing, with regards to TK having 360 seats on their 77W? V Australia has 361 seats on theirs and they use these birds for SYD LAX service so i guess with range i'm sure TK will use these birds on any of the destinations they fly too?


User currently offlinegokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 15483 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
I love the concept of large prop in Turkey as there are tons of markets that could be linked and lots of opportunity to get people out of buses while also providing feed for a big boy and as a result I had high hopes for Bora, but sadly their execution to date has been nothing but an embarrassment.

I agree 100%, and the sad thing is there is big money behind this and with little planning it could be very successful. They launch routes looking at Varan's loads smart yes but they don't advertise it on either end or give it time to develop. I will communicate these concerns to our friend to see whats being done about it. I will update you guys. The idea is brilliant, so many successful routes can be launched that has no airline service at one or both end.

Quoting cmoltay (Reply 6):

I agree the bus companies in Turkey are giving a lot to get customers but however comfortable it might be its just too damn long, and unfortunately not as safe as air travel IMO.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 5):
Turkish Minister of Transportation Yildirim announces that they agreed to get the 800 acres at IST from the TAF for 300mil. TL.
Also IST have plans to build a 3rd runway apart from the current military area

Thats great news IST can be expanded by taking all the military area, however it would need to be totally reconfigured, if its going be the airport of Istanbul come year 2020.



Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 15426 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 3):
Wizzair are launching IST from December.

Wizz will be flying into SAW not IST



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlinebahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1775 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 15408 times:

Borajet has a US backing by a professor in MIT (Turkish decent). Financially they are very sound, but they are spending money hand over fist to expensive cocktail parties, press events, hangars, etc. There is not a single 'regional' airline in this world that has turned a profit with this kind of expenditure level.. They remind me of the first days of ACA after they decided to go branded..
There is a huge demand for regional service in Turkey. There are markets that this airplane and the concept of regional airline can work, but there are multiple reasons why Borajet will have its place in the history of airlines that came and gone in Turkey. To name few:
- Their cost structure is pretty bad.
- The mid level management are the same people that drove the AtlasJet into unprofitable domestic operations after the sale by Oeger.
- There are too many heads , like any other company in Turkey and they are being hired from other airlines with high transfer fees..
- They don't advertise.. Doing press cocktails will not work.. They have to eye a correct market and then let the local people know
- Flight schedules are timed poorly: . Like Cmoltay mentioned, when the time is not that much of a value to a leisure traveler, but it is to a business person. People in Anatolia are interested in getting to IST / ESB in the morning and then leave for their home town in the evening.
- The most crucial of it all : They don't have a partner airline.. This is the thing that will break the camel's back .. Unless they get some feed from an airline like TK their success will be limited..

I wish them luck but they need smart management team instead of throwing darts on Turkish Road Map and annouce destinations.. Just get me , LaxIntl and TK787 in there and we will make the place rock  



Earthbound misfit I
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25062 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 15377 times:

The other sad part about Bora is you would assume much of the details of how they will market, price, advertise, select routes etc, should have been drawn up in their start up business plan. But instead it seems none of this was in place and they make things up as they go along. There simply is no coherent or clearly structured business process.

They come and go without the consumer knowing about them, and then they complain why there was no traffic. A recent example was Ankara to the new Alanya Airport, They started the ESB route in July 12th, and ended it only 44 days later with 5 passengers on the flight. Now did anyone really even know they served the route? Then the excuse they gave about leaving the market was some nonsense about the airport lacking ILS and needing high landing mins.

Like Baha says they need a coherent schedule, lots of marketing while operating lean financial structure.

For fun I pulled up their flight schedule. While now serving lots of destinations, what use is only 2 flights a week? They need two flights a day! We need the "Bora effect" in Turkey like Southwest managed to develop and grow markets on its own.

Ankara - Edremit = Fr/Su
Antalya - Istanbul = We/Su
Alanya - Istanbul = Mo/We/Th/Fr/Su
Edremit - Istanbul = 17x weekly
Bodrum - Istanbul = 8x weekly but no service on Mo
Bursa - Adana - Diyarbaki = We/Sa
Bursa - Samsun = Tu/Th/Su
Bursa - Sivas - Erzurum Th/Sa
Bursa - Trabzon = We/Su
Istanbul - Tokat = Mo/We/Fr/Sa/Su
Istanbul - Zonguldak - Trabzon = Mo/We/Fr
Samsun - Trabzon = We

Quoting bahadir (Reply 10):
Just get me , LaxIntl and TK787 in there and we will make the place rock

   Now you are talking.

I know we both share a strong interest in seeing a successful regional operation in Turkey.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4422 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 15347 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Quoting bahadir (Reply 10):
Just get me , LaxIntl and TK787 in there and we will make the place rock

Now you are talking.

I know we both share a strong interest in seeing a successful regional operation in Turkey.

Thanks guys, I wouldn't mind turning my hobby to something more serious only when I am tired/retired of the rat race in NYC.

About Borajet,
I see the problems like LAXIntl points out, the "figure out as you go along" is not an acceptable business plan. Too many city pairs in too many different markets. I would start with one (strongest possible after a serious market research), develop it, ,market it, become profitable, then move on to another city pair with the reputation you develop.
By the way, I would love to shoot their first commercial TV spot.
Not only they need a domestic partner to feed them, I would argue that they need a business plan for the winter months. Like many other airlines in Turkey having a partner in the slow months, mostly in Arab countries.
Also I would love to try some international routes like Italy, Switzerland, Greece, Romania, Ukraine, Croatia, Israel, Egypt.
Again, do the research, "Measure three times, before you cut once".


User currently offlinecmoltay From Turkey, joined Jun 2007, 132 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 15306 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 5):
Turkish Minister of Transportation Yildirim announces that they agreed to get the 800 acres at IST from the TAF for 300mil. TL.
Also IST have plans to build a 3rd runway apart from the current military area

http://www.airkule.com/default.asp?page=haber&id=9532 (in Turkish)

IST has the train tracks running south of this area, and the strategic 1/1.000.000 plan for Istanbul shows a connection from these to the airport, probably some part of this ex-military area will also host a passenger transfer point (also probably a limited cargo terminal) from railroad to air terminals when Marmaray gets operational...

Btw, 800 "donum" does not equal 800 acres... 1 acre is roughly 4000 sqm... 800 donum is very approx 200 acres...

Quoting TK787 (Reply 12):
I see the problems like LAXIntl points out, the "figure out as you go along" is not an acceptable business plan. Too many city pairs in too many different markets. I would start with one (strongest possible after a serious market research), develop it, ,market it, become profitable, then move on to another city pair with the reputation you develop.

How about developing a route along city triples / quadruples and providing a hop on/off service connecting eventually to a hub? Like the IST-Zonguldak-Trabzon route already in place but in different regions, IST-Balıkesir-Denizli-Aydın-IST for example or IST-Diyarbakır-Mardin-Urfa-IST... Or similar with Izmir, Ankara... Has that been ever tried? Any legal or technical problems with this?

[Edited 2010-09-02 13:00:06]

User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26912 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 15303 times:

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
Hello aviation friends, summer is flying away and here we are getting closer to fall 2010.
It has been a very busy summer for Turkish aviation and thanks for all posters for keeping our threads informational, fun and free of things not related to Turkish Aviation.

Thanks also for the work you put into these threads, the last one was really interesting.

I like the special liveries also.  


User currently offlineradiopolitic From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15264 times:

Quoting cmoltay (Reply 6):

And you went with the most expensive bus company - I'm assuming Varan.

You can go for much cheaper with the same comfort and while it is of course longer than flying - you go at night and don't miss too much.

I always check flight prices when I need to travel around Turkey but more often than not it isn't worth it to fly for me. I rather take the bus.


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4422 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15248 times:

Quoting cmoltay (Reply 13):

-Thanks for the donum/acreage translation.

-About the 3/4 stop "milk-runs", one problem I see, if the pax want to stop 2/3 times before getting to their destination. It might be beneficial for the the airline/cargo but would suck for the pax unless it is dirt cheap.
I used to take similar flights with Alaska Airlines in Alaska. It worked for AS for many years with earlier 737 models for few reasons; in some cases no other ways of transportation besides air, AS monopoly on these routes, pax that are willing to pay more for this service, high priced cargo.


User currently offlinecmoltay From Turkey, joined Jun 2007, 132 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 15218 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 16):
-About the 3/4 stop "milk-runs", one problem I see, if the pax want to stop 2/3 times before getting to their destination. It might be beneficial for the the airline/cargo but would suck for the pax unless it is dirt cheap.

But if the start-end city is a smaller hub other than IST, like İzmir, Adana, Antalya, wouldn't pax prefer to fly direct to another part of the country and do an extra landing to get to their destination instead of having to transfer in a hub airport (Ankara for AnadoluJet and IST/SAW for others).


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4422 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 15206 times:

Quoting cmoltay (Reply 17):

I think I see your point but is there a market for even a 66 seater Borajet in those sectors? I am sure there are pax out there, not sure about their numbers. It might be possible with local feeder turboprops smaller than the Bora's ATRs and at least daily if not more freqs. But in case of Borajet with 4 x 66 seat ATRs, they need to find a niche between bigger hubs and underserved cities, to make ends meet. If they had smaller planes, expenses they could have tried smaller hubs like you mention, like Adana.


User currently offlinetcm From Turkey, joined Jul 2010, 584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15159 times:

TK's new A333 is out flying:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Turki...rlines/Airbus-A330-343X/1772166/L/

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Turki...rlines/Airbus-A330-343X/1772167/L/


User currently offlineTK739ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 84 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 15137 times:

God, that livery is soooo boring without the tulip. Tail looks ok to me but gee the rest of the plane is fugly.   

User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26912 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15096 times:

Quoting TK739ER (Reply 20):
God, that livery is soooo boring without the tulip. Tail looks ok to me but gee the rest of the plane is fugly.  

I love the new design but your right its a shame that its missing the tulip.


User currently offlineumit From Turkey, joined May 2009, 127 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 15048 times:

I think it looks too white in wide bodies, it gives a kind of ambulance plane impression.

User currently offlineNorthstar80 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 15048 times:

Quoting oa260 (Reply 21):

I love the new design but your right its a shame that its missing the tulip.



The tulip would have been good, without it, the fuselage looks empty. I dont mind the tail, but I hate the way "TURKISH AIRLINES" was written (font and placement) it looks very serious - like a military aircraft.



You have to have your heart in the business and the business in your heart. -Thomas J Watson
User currently offlineTurkish350XWB From Switzerland, joined Jan 2009, 481 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 15050 times:

Link between TK and government?

As you know, there will be a referendum in Turkey on Sept 12th... Well, i don't want to talk about politics, but what worries me is that TK is going to transport back about 100.000 religious people from Umre earlier, so that they can participate at this referendum. Of course, EVERY turkish citizen should vote then, but here it is obvious, that the majority of these people are going to support the government party.

So my questions are:
- Who is paying the costs of this return transport?
- If TK is paying by itself, how do the shareholders think about?
- If the government is paying, will there be a juridicil after math? (Don't answer this question! It's political, so sorry...)
- Should the flag carrier be the government party's instrument?
- Are there similar examples of other important flag carriers, doing similar things? I'm not talking about natural environmental disasters or bringing back home citizens who are in danger in foreign countries etc.?


25 LAXintl : Umrah and Hadj flights are chartered both by private travel agencies that sell packages and in some cases directly by the government which subsidizes
26 tcm : Accusing TK of being a party political tool is rather being out of touch with reality. I also agree with you that we should stay away of discussing p
27 TK787 : Wow, so white! I don't need coffee this morning, I am awake just looking at it. I hope it looks a bit better in real life. The pics look like a bit co
28 umit : Actually , I would like to see a plane maned after Orhan Pamuk but I think it would have create a lot of political arguments, besides TK does not name
29 Turkish350XWB : In my personal opinion, this forum should not only be a place to discuss schedules and livery etc... I guess we all are interested also in the backgr
30 Post contains links and images Northstar80 : TK787, do you also think that changing the white color to a metallic gray like in the 777 pic in the link would look good?: http://www.turkishairline
31 TK787 : Remember the 310 fleet with river names; Aras, Coruh... I like it, metallic gray and red engines. Even though I live in the US, don't know a whole lo
32 umit : just out of couriacity 100,000 people in how many days ? If all carried by say 330 ,that makes over 350 flights is it really possible ? how is it bein
33 Post contains images umit : TK 787 since you are from Rize as well , you might have a chance to be a PR official of TK in NYC I checked the prices for NYC in November Bayram it i
34 gokmengs : agreed the livery is really boring, what was wrong with the one with the tulip? Why do they have to re-brand themselves every 2 years?? is this perma
35 TK787 : Umit, looking at kayak.com from Nov13-18 IST-JFK-IST, I found TK Y $1660 and a low fare on AF 1-stop Y for $620. J fare TK doesn't come up (which is
36 tcm : See Reply 25 by LAXintl for a more elegant answer to your questions. Lets put things in to perspective, as our political views and values can sometim
37 umit : Price of AF does really look good ... I used to use AF very often to istanbul from NYC via Paris in old days ..Most of the times I was caught by a st
38 TK787 : Actually just looked at it again, for the same price, $619, IST-JFK is on AF, and on the way back non-stop DL72. But I find the big detail, it is an
39 LAXintl : And I'll add another point. While maybe the lines between Turkey, the Turkish state and Turkish Airlines can be blurred a bit remember, the government
40 Post contains links TK787 : http://www.ucusrotasi.com/thy-bursasporu-da-ucuracak/ (in Turkish) Good news! TK to sponsor last years Turkish soccer champs Bursaspor in their next 1
41 Post contains images TK739ER : That's exactly what I'm wondering. Why do they have to make a change every two or three years and every time they do worse.Remember what a big deal w
42 GlenP : The big problem there is that 1 hour is really pushing it for a CDG transfer, especially for a change to a US bound flight. Queues at security &
43 Post contains links 777way : PIA Urdu language ad from 1971 showing Ankara launch, mystery solved of wether or not it was served. http://www.historyofpia.com/ad_memo75d.jpg "PIA i
44 TK787 : True, I personally got stuck on a security line at CDG and missed my connection to IST. I spent 6 hours at CDG waiting for the next AF IST flight.
45 bahadir : It's a shame because BoraJet was flying the airline to places like Kayseri , Sivas, etc. The airplane and the airline was more suitable than A320 for
46 bahadir : With all due respect, apples and oranges.. These are military contracts or Government fares that these airlines bid for. I would like to see THY , On
47 TK787 : Baha, actually the article says 180 seater plane, so it could be a 321. One reason for that is Bursaspor has to travel to Manchester, Glasgow and Val
48 tcm : I wonder what we will see from the consultancy agreement with Priestman&Goode regarding branding. The new TK livery should be part of this re-bran
49 Post contains links LX1800 : Hello everybody, Nice to see another Turkish aviation thread up again! Regarding the new TK livery on the 333: indeed, a shame that they got rid of th
50 LX1800 : Wasn't Priestman&Goode hired exactly for those purposes?
51 tcm : Yes it was, however, I fail to see any input by Priestman&Goode on the new livery that would suggest a re-branding strategy. By the way, thanks f
52 LX1800 : Well, the actual design of the livery is made by a local Turkish graphic group. They 'base' their design on the work and ideas of Priestman&Goode
53 tcm : We will see the result in a few days as the new A333 is due to arrive in IST!
54 LX1800 : Wonderful news to hear but where did you get that info?
55 tcm : See Reply 19 on this page.[Edited 2010-09-04 15:13:10]
56 Post contains images Cuban8 : Turkish Airlines should be the official UEFA sponsor. Soon they will fly all teams to their matches For me personally, this is sad news. I flew Bursa
57 777way : Placement of flag on new livery is not making sense, why is it so low and not balaced in line with TK title as in the past, livery itself seems Luftha
58 Post contains images CamiloA380 : Turkish Airlines from 26DEC10 is introducing Boeing 777-300ER service on 3 weekly Istanbul – Sao Paulo flight. From 22FEB11, the Star Alliance carri
59 Post contains links LX1800 : Here is another photo of the first 333 for TK, TC-JNH: http://blog.seattlepi.com/worldairlinenews/archives/220369.asp. Ok, but 2 September is the date
60 Post contains links tcm : Delivery of the new aircraft is secheduled after the test flights, see link below. http://www.airporthaber.com/thy-nin-yeni-kusu-kanatlandi-26796h.ht
61 Post contains links LX1800 : Also, here are some photos of the second 333 for TK (F-WWZ? / MSN 1160 / TC-JNI): http://www.airporthaber.com/thy-nin-yeni-kusu-kanatlandi-26796h.html
62 LX1800 : Correct. I was just proposing that the actual delivery to TK could take longer than a few days (in order for us to see any shots of the results of th
63 Post contains links TK787 : http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/ekonomi/15724325.asp?gid=373 (in Turkish) Duty Free allowances are increased a bit; Now, when you land at IST you can buy 2
64 hardiwv : Great news. I think this flight will upgrade to daily B77W in 2 years max. Rgs,
65 Post contains links 777way : ULS flying A310F for Saudia Cargo in full livery http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/viewphoto.main?LC=nav2&picid=6683 are they getting any more?
66 Post contains links gokmengs : Hey guys there is a rare bird in IST, I'm surprised no one in IST mentioned this on the thread. http://www.flickr.com/photos/53817400@N08/4969759033/
67 777way : Saudia seem to have phased out all six Onur A300s.
68 TK787 : If the US basketball team nicely asked I am sure they could have had a TK 77W logojet, so they didn't have to make all those stops along the way. I w
69 TK787 : A quick question about the TK 77W crews; When the Jet leases happened TK hired some foreign pilots since there were no type certified pilots. Then TK
70 Post contains links tcm : Near collision of TK 773 and a Cessna Citation over London revealed. Detailed info: http://avherald.com/h?article=430b178b&opt=0
71 Northstar80 : This week in Ugur Cebeci's article, he again mentions the TK's bid to purchase a A380 or B748, I recall him writing this for several times in the past
72 Post contains links ivo : ] It's for 5 A380 or B747-8 http://www.ch-aviation.ch/news.php?start=280 Ivo
73 777way : Hope they opt for 748.
74 Post contains images cmoltay : Last Thursday (first day of the holidays) I flew the route with an A340... Apparently, the big bird did an international flight to bring in a tourist
75 Post contains links tcm : TK is planning to launch services of its low-cost subsidiary, AnadoluJet, in Dubai when it gets permission for additional flights to the UAE. See link
76 Post contains links TK773ER : According to www.thanhniennews.com Flag carrier Turkish Airlines has been licensed to offer flights between Ho Chi Minh City and Turkey’s capital Is
77 Post contains links tcm : Rumor has it that the first TK owned 773ER, TC-JJE, is expected on the 13th of October from Seattle as a ferry flight. No sources. Look at the partly
78 TK787 : Looks great, thanks for the link. I wish I was in Seattle to take few pics myself. It is still crazy that KL can fit 35J/ 40Y+/ 350Y on their 77Ws. I
79 MeCe : Hi all, As a long time reader this is my first post to A.net forums happy to meet you here. TK's Y+ and KLM's quite different, KLM seats has same widt
80 Post contains links TK787 : Well, let me be the first one to welcome here. About KL vs. TK. We all know about the physical difference about the pitch and all about the seating.
81 Post contains links tk747 : Borajet will commence flights between Bursa and Skopje. A strange choice, hopefully it works out for them . source http://www.worldbulletin.net/news_d
82 tcm : TK seems to have a strategy of its own. The third way! By eliminating F they surely are not targeting the premium market. The new Y+ will probably lu
83 TK787 : One would hope so. I am sure you guys have seen the thread about the TK 333 doing a IST-JFK round trip last week. I wonder what type of seating that
84 MeCe : I think TK still need to prove itself, they need to give more for their passengers. We see it inflight food they give business standart meal at econo
85 TK787 : I found this blog: "TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 14, 2010 The Valencia company is negotiating with the 'Turkish Airlines' Valencia CF is negotiating with the T
86 Post contains links and images 777way : Hong Kong Airlines to launch IST from April. View Large View MediumPhoto © Dmitry Petrov[Edited 2010-09-16 01:18:37]
87 Post contains links LX1800 : Well, I really do not know how sure we can be of the fact of the mentioned 333 operating that flight. FlightAware says the following: http://nl.fligh
88 gokmengs : Could TK be saving this announcement for Airex Istanbul, I know they are trying really hard to get the 380 there, what better place to announce it. H
89 TK787 : Cathay ordered some 350s lately and delivery dates start at 2016. It might be similar with 787 with few cancellations. It is not that bad. First of a
90 tcm : Exactly, this is the real issue TK should worry about.
91 MeCe : Technic and flight op have their own issues but they are manageable, at least I think so. The most important and uncontrollable problem is airport cap
92 Post contains links tcm : The first TK owned 773ER TC-JJE is flying...... http://paineairport.com/kpae3158.htm http://paineairport.com/kpae3159.htm
93 TK787 : Looks great, thanks for the link. I used to live in Seattle when first 777s started flying. I would have never thought then that TK will get them eve
94 Post contains images tcm : Well I guess we are getting old Turkish Aviation used to be dull and predictable; now there is something new going on almost everyday. I guess we sti
95 gokmengs : First thing is a TK issue and I think they will deal with it just fine, however IST is not in TK's control, they can try harder to get results of cou
96 Post contains links TK787 : True but TK still has to deal with that and TK and the government are closely tied. I am sure they will figure it out once the TAF is out of the pict
97 Post contains links TK787 : One other thing; I don't think this happens very often: http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/gundem/15816571.asp?gid=373 (in Turkish) On 8/28 a TK 343 flying IS
98 sbkom : What is the Turkish version of NTSB? Do they have a web site with incident database? I wonder why do we learn such incident after a month, and from th
99 Post contains links TK787 : There is this site but not a whole lot of daily news or incidents, especially on the English version: http://web.shgm.gov.tr/en_index.php
100 Post contains links sbkom : Thanks for the quick response. I couldn't find any incident reports section even in Turkish. My browser gave me a warning "This web page at www.ans.d
101 Post contains links TK787 : I think the source of the story is this: http://www.dha.com.tr/n.php?n=thy-ucagi-anteni-devirdi-2010-09-19 Maybe we will hear more about it this week.
102 Post contains links tcm : Boeing 777-3F2ER BOE 895 destined to become TC-JJE for Turkish Airlines first new build 777-300ER series arrives at PDX to be painted. http://www.flic
103 Post contains links tcm : THY TC-JNC on flight TK17 failed to clear runway 24R resulting in a rejected take off by AC-147 on the 4th of September. This is the third serious inc
104 Post contains links LX1800 : I usually never visit aviation expo's due to the fact that I do not keep track of their dates etcetera. This time I thought I should start visiting th
105 tcm : Thanks LX1800 great news! I intend to visit the Airex on the 30th. The A333 is in IST sooner than we expected after all, can't wait to see the new ca
106 Post contains links and images LX1800 : Well, don't forget to take your camera with you to shoot some pics for us Turkish will fly their first brand new 77W home from Seattle on October the
107 ankaraflyjet : Turkuaz Airlines TKZ starting following daily flights from Ankara 'ESB' on all A320/321 service as follows; ESB ADB 4 daily ESB AYT 4 daily ESB GZT 1
108 Post contains links TK787 : http://www.thailandopen.org/news.php?nid=78 Rafael Nadal arrives in Thailand for the Open, on TK60, TK is the sponsor for the event.
109 Post contains links tcm : TK CEO wants to add Detroit, Boston, Houston and Miami as new destinations in the U.S. Very interesting interview on future plans of TK: http://www.ja
110 TK787 : Interesting, yes. I guess we have to take it seriously coming from T.K. Detroit? That is the only one that I don't get. Twice daily JFK? That is a lo
111 MeCe : TK made a good job while the others in trouble because of global crisis. But now things going to better everyone pulls up. Lets see can they contiue g
112 Post contains links TK787 : http://www.turkishairlines.com/tr-TR...-kabin-memuru-adaylari-ariyor.aspx (in Turkish) TK is looking for "male" FA's only. I remember last time when t
113 miaintl : The Interesting part is to see which of the 5 cities will they serve first? I am going with MIA, followed by BOS, IAH, and lastly DTW.
114 Post contains links TK787 : 380/748 in the news again; http://www.reuters.com/article/idCNLDE68N05X20100924?rpc=44
115 TK773ER : Great to see TK doing well with future plans and all that. Are these guys playing with the idea of ordering either A380/7478? I mean is it too big fo
116 TK787 : I have a feeling if they go ahead with the idea, it has to be the 380 over the 748. And I would like to see 787 over 350, for thin US routes mentione
117 TK773ER : Thanks for that you are wright though with the way TK is moving forward and expanding any thing is possible? I think the advertising is working for th
118 Post contains links tcm : Article on TK and Turkish Aviation by CNBC Business, a good read. http://www.cnbcmagazine.com/story/turkish-aviation/1202/1/?src=cnbc
119 Post contains links TK787 : http://www.airkule.com/default.asp?page=haber&id=9684 (in Turkish) TK PR is working hard these days, they should, right before they show off the n
120 TK787 : further expansion lies with plans by the Turkish government to build a new purpose built terminal at Silivri, 60km east of Istanbul, with a capacity f
121 tcm : Yes, 5 years is too long as TK is already facing serious capacity issues at IST. The government should prioritize this issue in their investment plan
122 Post contains images MeCe : Leather covers on long haul flights ?? Fabric is more comfortable I think. If they replace the covers I will be not surprise Again again, they are tal
123 TK787 : I don't want to keep repeating myself but again to put things in perspective; IST's new terminal finished in 2001, only 9 years ago and it is not mee
124 tcm : Dubai is developing one of the world's largest airport, Al Maktoum International in Jebel Ali, even though it has a fairly new one (DXB) already. The
125 stylo777 : detroit is indeed very critical as it would only rely on ethnic traffic from/to Lebanon, Jordan, India, Yemen and Albania. TK has great connections t
126 gokmengs : I couldn't agree more with you guys, the plans are such shortsighted. They will make a new airport with housing and roads just next to it so when tim
127 Post contains links TK787 : Hey guys, Thanks to tcm and his last photo link; I was looking for a newer photo of TK's first 77W, look what we have back; the tulip http://www.flick
128 tcm : Looks much better with the tulip. By the way, the J product will be named 'Business Plus' and will have fully flat seats according to T.K.
129 Post contains links TK787 : Also in the same pic you can see the dome just above the words "Turkish Airlines" for internet, cell phones and liveTV. First flight of 77W to Beijing
130 Post contains links and images 777way : Grat to see Tulip back, though I can imagine design firm being a tad offended, they probably wanted a total focus on the tail with a Lufthansa style i
131 Post contains links and images TK787 : And the new TK 332F, named "Meric"; View Large View MediumPhoto © T.Laurent
132 kaitak : Can anyone tell me what reg the new A330F will have? Will they just continue with the 'JNx series for A330s, whether -200s, -300s or -200Fs?
133 TK787 : I think so, as for the 332F, it will be TC-JDO.
134 TK773ER : Good to see the tulip back and good to see TK finally receiving their WB aircraft with all future destinations TK has in plans these birds will have t
135 miaintl : Does anyone know when the new A330s will arrive to TK?
136 tcm : The first TK A333 will be at the Airex show in Istanbul on Thursday the 30th.
137 LAXintl : Could you or anyone you know predict the growth experienced in Istanbul and Turkey in general? Globally air traffic tends to follow GDP growth. So so
138 tcm : IST is a 13 million city and the economic powerhouse of Turkey. Its also becoming a economic and social magnet in the region. True, nobody predicted i
139 TK787 : With all due respect; this 100% traffic increase didn't come from Mars. It is created mostly by TK and -if you order 60 planes like TK did last time,
140 LAXintl : I'd say maybe the lack of planning was on TK's part. Look at British Airways, its growth is virtually 0% as it knows its gridlocked at LHR. So before
141 TK787 : Likewise, TK should not invest huge sums of money on 89 frames hoping those planes will have room at their IST hub. TK and IST should work hand in ha
142 gokmengs : So we all agree that there is a problem, some blame the government, some blame TK some both. The question is do the officials have an answer? I don't
143 TK787 : Agree 100%. So much cheaper to expand IST. I would also expand it toward the sea to the south and build a marine terminal to ease transportation to t
144 Post contains links tcm : Bloomberg news story: ''As part of the expansion plan, Turkish Airlines may later consider buying Airbus 380 or Boeing 747 double-decker planes, if it
145 TK787 : As usual the numbers don't add up. TK flies to JFK 9 x weekly in the summers and to ORD 7 x weekly, that is 16 currently, not 10. With the addition o
146 miaintl : Maybe MIA or IAH is that other destination. But then again TK's CEO tends to talk alot so i would no take him to seriously. He seems to throw routes
147 thereandback : I disagree with those saying that IST can still be expanded. Its completely surrounded by dense residential areas and even if it can be expanded it wo
148 TurkishSky : 10 weekly till 13 october...
149 TK787 : Long time no see, nice to see you here again. Ooooops, sorry about that. I should have known better than that.
150 MAH4546 : I've been hearing from MIA sources that THY is likely on track for next winter. Is ATL even still happening? Is it bookable?
151 miaintl : What MIA sources? The only place that i heard about a potential MIA-IST service is from TK's CEO. Are the officials at MIA even aware that TK is inter
152 MAH4546 : MIA officials are obvioulsy aware. Why would they not be? You think airport officials don't actively talk with airlines about starting services? MIA
153 miaintl : Maybe it was EK or KL. Was there an airline convention at Vancouver last week or something like that? How did you know they secured an airline?
154 thereandback : I tried last week and it wasn't, but IAD - IST was bookable so I don't know whats going on. I live close to ATL and that flight would be convenient f
155 tcm : I completely agree with your analysis. By the way, I know that TAV are lobbying hard to prevent anything that would undermine IST as the main hub of
156 Post contains links TK787 : http://www.airkule.com/default.asp?page=haber&id=9718 Looks like both the 330-300 and the 332F will be delivered to IST today, Sep. 29th, to be re
157 Post contains links planemannyc : Looks like TK plans to extend IST-KHI route to DAC (Dhaka, Bangladesh) is solidifying. http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=1563
158 Post contains links TK787 : Well the tulip is there, but how about this news; the earlier rumors of 30J/289Y maybe not true, it is reported that : 28J/261Y. http://www.lojiport.
159 Post contains links tcm : Love that engine noise... http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xf0...h-airlines-b777-300er-first-t_tech
160 FLYYUL : So Turkish wants to add Montreal eh? Makes a lot of sense considering the Middle East reach they will get via their IST hub. Thoughts?
161 miaintl : TK says alot of stuff, but i just dont see how thier IST hub can handle all this expanison. The even want to add MIA, IAH, DTW, and BOS to give you a
162 TK787 : As far as I know TK had the rights to fly to YUL for a long time but fought very hard to fly to YYZ instead. I am sure they have to get new agreement
163 miaintl : What do you think about TK wanting to fly to MIA? Is that just wishful thinking on their part aswell?
164 TK787 : I think we talked a lot about TK's MIA plans in the past few threads. Let's wait and see how things go in the next 6-9 months.
165 FLYYUL : Well Montreal was specifically mentioned in this news article, above all other things, and it's in the same paragraph as 2011 plans so I assume this m
166 Post contains links MeCe : Anyone instrested in with interior pic of new 330, only 3 small pictures but we can see cabin: http://i.sabah.com.tr/sb/galeri/yasa...cagi_gorucuye_ci
167 TKfan : OMG, these seats really look cheap and awful. Hope the pictures are of bad quality. Out of the pictures I neither like the colors, the style nor the f
168 tcm : Guys I just came off the new TK A333 and let me tell you the new J Cabin is very impressive. Much better than I anticipated. Will post pics later on.
169 Post contains links and images TK787 : Looking forward to more pics, but those three pics tell the story. J looks fine, tons of room and check out the tulip motives on the seats and we thou
170 gokmengs : Nothing is 100% with TK, they make a classy looking J with choice of fabrics and color, then they pick the most ridiculous tone of turquoise for the
171 Post contains images tcm : Well guys calm down. It doesn't look that bad. You get used to it Some pics from the interior of 'Topkapı'
172 Post contains images bahadir : What seat manufacturer are those? Y seats look like cardboard.. If they named this airplane Topkapi it's pretty appropriate.. Seats look like they cam
173 TK787 : Tcm, thanks for the photos; lucky you! It is a matter of taste. I wish we can hear from the design team, what those colors represent or where this ins
174 tcm : The seat fabric and features are better than what most airlines use these days. Have a look what SQ uses for the IST/DXB routing and you will appreci
175 tcm : Well try to attend Airex next year, its certainly worth it. I have some pics of the A380 that came for the show but I guess better ones will be on th
176 thereandback : I like the new interior it makes sense and it is a cohesive look inside and out. I just don't understand the green headrests because TK never uses gre
177 debonair : Merhaba! TURKUAZ AIRLINES announced to open their new Ankara domestic hub on SEP 26th 2010. So, how is it doing? Load factors? On-time performance? Th
178 Post contains links TK787 : Please continue here: Turkish Aviation October 2010 (by TK787 Oct 1 2010 in Civil Aviation)
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