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UA - CO Announce Path To Single FAA Certificate  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25414 posts, RR: 49
Posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8982 times:

Basically 3 steps.

1) Continental and Continental Micronesia to combine into a single operating certificate. This is already in an advance stage of the integration.
2) United will merge into the Continental certificate, with CO operating certificate being the surviving one.
3) Continental part 145 certificate will be combined into the existing United repair station certificates.

Selection was made to maximize the unique advantages of each carriers certificates and to ease regulatory hurdles.

This SOC decisions does not affect which operational processes and IT systems are selected by the combined airlines downline.

Full story:
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...ontinental-united-lay-out-pla.html


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3704 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8902 times:

Can anyone elaborate why CO's operating certificate brings more benefits than UA's? The same about UA's repair station cetificates. It would be interesting to know how the decision was made.

User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2639 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8734 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 1):
Can anyone elaborate why CO's operating certificate brings more benefits than UA's? The same about UA's repair station certificates. It would be interesting to know how the decision was made.

Would it have to do with the Air Mike/CO combination where the combined certificate would reflect a more legally updated one?
If this were to happen, would aircraft from Boeing be BXXX-X24 models?
I would guess that COA and CO would not be the surviving code it wouldn't make much sense to keep the "Continental" call sign like US Airways kept "Cactus".


User currently offlinedeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9435 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8702 times:

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 2):

If this were to happen, would aircraft from Boeing be BXXX-X24 models?

I wouldn't think this has anything to do with the OC but i could be wrong.



yep.
User currently offlineElBandGeek From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 756 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8656 times:

I assume this means any 787s delivered between the close of the merger and SOC will still initially operate on the CO certificate then, correct?

User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2639 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8623 times:

Quoting ElBandGeek (Reply 4):
I assume this means any 787s delivered between the close of the merger and SOC will still initially operate on the CO certificate then, correct?

According to the story all aircraft acquired will go into the CO certificate, but undoubtedly the certificate will be renamed to United, United-Continental or Continental-United.
Would the surviving CO OC mean the merged airline would keep ticketing number 005?


User currently onlineDualQual From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 769 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8539 times:

Quoting ElBandGeek (Reply 4):
I assume this means any 787s delivered between the close of the merger and SOC will still initially operate on the CO certificate then, correct?

Until SOC any CO deliveries will be delivered to CO and operated by CO crews and maintained by CO mechanics. Until SOC and applicable seniority integrations we can't begin cross operations. UA metal will still be flown and maintained by UA crews/mechanics accordingly. Doesn't matter what the paint job on the side of the plane is until SOC and SLI.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25414 posts, RR: 49
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8510 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 1):
Can anyone elaborate why CO's operating certificate brings more benefits than UA's? The same about UA's repair station cetificates. It would be interesting to know how the decision was made.

A bit more then what article mentions was announced today but in essence for the operating certificate the Continental is a more basic one, or closer to generic FAA language and policy while also providing some authorizations that United does not, so in simplistic terms from reading the tea leaves its easier to a step back into a generic license then train and bring everyone up to United's which is very customized and has evolved greatly away from the basics over the decades. As mentioned part of the decision was simplicity to ease regulatory hoops.

For the maintenance certificate, United was chosen at it conveys greater maintenance capability and authorizations. (keep in mind CO farms out much of its maintenance work, while United still has lots of capability inhouse).

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 2):
If this were to happen, would aircraft from Boeing be BXXX-X24 models?

Boeing customer codes have nothing to do with operating certificates. Those are Boeing commercial decisions.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 5):
but undoubtedly the certificate will be renamed to United, United-Continental or Continental-United.

The new company will be known as United Continental Holdings Inc.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 5):
Would the surviving CO OC mean the merged airline would keep ticketing number 005?

Again operating certificate has zero do with IATA ticketing codes. Since the surviving carrier marketing wise will be United, I'd be willing to bet the carrier will use the current UA 016.

[Edited 2010-09-01 18:04:30]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAZNCSA4QF744ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8446 times:

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 2):
I would guess that COA and CO would not be the surviving code it wouldn't make much sense to keep the "Continental" call sign like US Airways kept "Cactus".



Are you serious?


User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8347 times:

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 2):
I would guess that COA and CO would not be the surviving code it wouldn't make much sense to keep the "Continental" call sign like US Airways kept "Cactus".

Um...

Quoting AZNCSA4QF744ER (Reply 8):

Are you serious?

I would think the new group would use....

Airline name - United
Designator - UAL / UA
Callsign - United.

At least thats what I would assume!



Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlineElBandGeek From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 756 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8347 times:

Quoting DualQual (Reply 6):
Until SOC any CO deliveries will be delivered to CO and operated by CO crews and maintained by CO mechanics. Until SOC and applicable seniority integrations we can't begin cross operations. UA metal will still be flown and maintained by UA crews/mechanics accordingly. Doesn't matter what the paint job on the side of the plane is until SOC and SLI.

That's what I figured, but I also thought with a new type they could put it on either certificate and it wouldn't make much of a difference unless they already sorted the details out with the CO unions, which I wasn't sure if they had done yet.


User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1865 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8324 times:

What's the point of folding CO Mike into it, if they never bothered to do it before now?

User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2639 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8293 times:

Quoting AZNCSA4QF744ER (Reply 8):
Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 2):
I would guess that COA and CO would not be the surviving code it wouldn't make much sense to keep the "Continental" call sign like US Airways kept "Cactus".



Are you serious?

Of course not, especially since CO doesn't have a cute call sign like "Rocky".

And thanks to those who said that the IATA codes and Boeing codes are meaningless to the OC and passengers, but maybe a similar issue with IATA or merged management could choose 005 over 016.

By the way noting the Cactus call sign, I always thought the "HP" code for America West stood for "Hub Phoenix". Anyone know if that's correct?


User currently offlinejgarrido From Guam, joined Mar 2007, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8257 times:

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 9):
Airline name - United
Designator - UAL / UA
Callsign - United.

So Air Mike (CMI) will become Continental (COA) only later to become United (UAL). Sounds like "fun".

[Edited 2010-09-01 18:18:38]

User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8234 times:

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 12):
By the way noting the Cactus call sign, I always thought the "HP" code for America West stood for "Hub Phoenix". Anyone know if that's correct?

No  

The airline when it was started, needed an operating certificate, and purchased the defunct one of Hawaiian Pacific Airlines, which had recently gone bust. Hence the IATA code of "HP"  



Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25346 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8196 times:

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 12):
And thanks to those who said that the IATA codes and Boeing codes are meaningless to the OC and passengers, but maybe a similar issue with IATA or merged management could choose 005 over 016.

Much simpler for their interline partners to keep the UA ticketing code since that's the surviving name.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3704 posts, RR: 19
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8071 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
A bit more then what article mentions was announced today but in essence for the operating certificate the Continental is a more basic one, or closer to generic FAA language and policy while also providing some authorizations that United does not, so in simplistic terms from reading the tea leaves its easier to a step back into a generic license then train and bring everyone up to United's which is very customized and has evolved greatly away from the basics over the decades. As mentioned part of the decision was simplicity to ease regulatory hoops.

For the maintenance certificate, United was chosen at it conveys greater maintenance capability and authorizations. (keep in mind CO farms out much of its maintenance work, while United still has lots of capability inhouse).

Thank you for clarifying a bit. Are the certificates publicly accessible?


User currently offlineglobalflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 928 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6353 times:

When I was in training in the very early 90s at HP, they told us that they had three choices, VD, FU and HP..For obvious reasons they chose HP which they said meant "Happy People"...I think they were pulling our leg though!


Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25414 posts, RR: 49
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5915 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 16):
Are the certificates publicly accessible?

General Info about them yes.
http://av-info.faa.gov/OpCert.asp

But the actual nuts and bolts Operations Specifications are not.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3704 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5594 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):

General Info about them yes.
http://av-info.faa.gov/OpCert.asp

Thank you for the help.


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5608 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5466 times:

Quoting globalflyer (Reply 17):
When I was in training in the very early 90s at HP, they told us that they had three choices, VD, FU and HP..For obvious reasons they chose HP

I dunno.... FU would have been the obvious choice to me....  

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5444 times:

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 12):
I always thought the "HP" code for America West stood for "Hub Phoenix". Anyone know if that's correct?

Some people thought it stood for "Happy People"....at least from what I was told.  



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4935 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
) Continental part 145 certificate will be combined into the existing United repair station certificates.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
For the maintenance certificate, United was chosen at it conveys greater maintenance capability and authorizations. (keep in mind CO farms out much of its maintenance work, while United still has lots of capability inhouse).

Hopefully these actions are indicative of UA bringing more maintenance in house.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3704 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4864 times:

It's interesting that CO has the oldest certificate among the legacy carriers.

User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4574 times:

How about the CO domestic and international RNP certificate for the entire fleet minus the B735's as well as ETOPS for all again minus the B735's? Is this all part of the "single operating certificate" as I would think it would?


Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
25 USXguy : I'd think they would stick with UA/016 - although from a ticketing side it doesn't matter. United announced a while back it would be migrating to the
26 Post contains images Schweigend : Thank you for bringing up the 005 v. 016 and Bxxx-x24 v. -x22 issues, a question deeply interesting to me for geekish reasons. I hope 005 is kept--it
27 Antoniemey : It's only two off from 007. I'm definitely not with Boeing, but my understanding is that this is determined by who orders the aircraft based on the n
28 Maverick623 : The airline is going to be called "United", and that's what's going to be painted on the airplanes. It would be extremely confusing if they were to k
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