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Western Airlines 767 Orders  
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3091 posts, RR: 4
Posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9122 times:

I was looking through photos of DL 767's, and came across this one circa 1982 at Farnborough. On the sign in front of the airplane, it lists Western as having pending orders. When did they place orders and how many orders did they have? I presume they conveyed to Delta in the '87 merger?


http://www.airliners.net/photo/Delta...ir-Lines/Boeing-767-232/0574929/M/

49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRogerThat From United States of America, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 566 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9039 times:

IIRC WA converted their 767 orders to 737-300 around the same time as they overhauled their network to focus on LAX and SLC hub.

User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16363 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8936 times:

Western ordered 6 762's early in the program. The order was cancelled prior to delivery.

Just prior to the DL takeover, Western was taking delivery of new 732 & 733 aircraft; Western was an early 733 customer. It's possible the 762 order was converted to 732/733.

I seem to recall though that the initial Western 733 order was a stand-alone order for 3 aircraft unrelated to the outstanding 762 order but I may be wrong.

Neil



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10638 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8875 times:

BTW, that a/c later became "The Spirt of Delta", the first 767-200 delivered to DL. Ship #101 was used as a test bed for awhile longer.


It's odd how fat that a/c looks in the photo. Almost looks like an A-310.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8676 times:

I thought the same thing. Optical illusion without the widget on the tail?

User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8663 times:

Hey what about the fact that CP Air is one of the customers on the board, I didn't know they ordered 767's but it would have been a nice looking plane along with a WA 762 in the bud lite scheme.

FX1816


User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8455 times:
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Ok,
So who can identify the carrier between Western and Pacific Western on the top row of those logos?

Tried to have a look at the Boeing orders website, but it doesn't suggest who's order it is, plus history has caused it to give some strange results in listing the current name of certain companies that didn't exist at the time. So Britannia Airways original order is listed by Boeing under TUI Travel plc, and Braathens SAFE is listed as SAS Norway etc.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AirNikon Collection-Pima Air and Space Museum


And just because I like it... here's a photo of the same aircraft with her 757 sistership taken around the same time;

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Derek Ferguson



User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4358 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8343 times:

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 6):
So who can identify the carrier between Western and Pacific Western on the top row of those logos?

I searched in my 767 books, it must be Alaska International Airlines, they ordered two in 1980 but cancelled later.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8273 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 7):
I searched in my 767 books, it must be Alaska International Airlines, they ordered two in 1980 but cancelled later.

Excellent bit of research, thanks for that!

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Udo K. Haafke


Never seen that logo before!

Regards
CROSSWIND


User currently offlinesunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2058 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8203 times:

Alaska International Airlines, IIRC they wanted to buy out WAL or invested in them. Does any remember this? Was there a bidding war about the time Air Florida was seeking a merger with WAL?


Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10638 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8077 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 4):
I thought the same thing. Optical illusion without the widget on the tail?

I don't know........here's a pic of the A-310 at TLV


http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k319/mayor86/A310TLV-1.jpg



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5154 posts, RR: 43
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8072 times:

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 5):
Hey what about the fact that CP Air is one of the customers on the board, I didn't know they ordered 767's but it would have been a nice looking plane



Yes CP ordered B767-200s around the same time as AC. However, the economic downturn of the early 1980s made a lot of airlines rethink future orders. CP came to the same conclusion as WA, and too traded in the orders for B737-300s, (which they later traded for B737-200s).

Also, of note in that picture, is that Pacific Western Airlines, also ordered the B767-200. But theirs actually flew for PWA, a Canadian regional carrier. They did not work well in the system, as the forecast non-stop trans-con flights were not approved, the aircraft eventually ended up at AC.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1682 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7671 times:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © MICHAEL BAKER



Loved the PWA colourscheme (so very 80's), but wish the titles had been larger.

It would have been interesting to see the Western Airlines 762, especially in "Bud-Light" colours.

And as a brief history lesson, PWA (Corp.) eventually ended up buying 763's, after they bought CP Air to form Canadi>n Airlines...which ironically are now back in AC colours....



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25978 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7560 times:

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 5):
Hey what about the fact that CP Air is one of the customers on the board, I didn't know they ordered 767's
Quoting longhauler (Reply 11):
Quoting FX1816 (Reply 5):
Hey what about the fact that CP Air is one of the customers on the board, I didn't know they ordered 767's but it would have been a nice looking plane



Yes CP ordered B767-200s around the same time as AC. However, the economic downturn of the early 1980s made a lot of airlines rethink future orders.

CP Air ordered 4 762s in 1980. The order was deferred twice and then cancelled and switched to 10 737-300s although only 5 were delivered and they were operated for less than a year before being sold. A new CEO arrived about that time and decided to simplify the fleet to only DC-10-30s and 737-200s. Most of the ex-CP 733s are now with Southwest after originally going to long-defunct Brazilian carrier VASP.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 11):
Also, of note in that picture, is that Pacific Western Airlines, also ordered the B767-200. But theirs actually flew for PWA, a Canadian regional carrier. They did not work well in the system, as the forecast non-stop trans-con flights were not approved, the aircraft eventually ended up at AC.

I flew on a PWA 762 SEA-YVR, also YVR-YYC. Hardly ideal routes for the type.


User currently onlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5786 posts, RR: 28
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7524 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13):
A new CEO arrived about that time and decided to simplify the fleet to only DC-10-30s and 737-200s.

Now there's a fleet for ya! Nothing screams 70's like that.  

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2748 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7130 times:

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 9):
Alaska International Airlines, IIRC they wanted to buy out WAL or invested in them. Does any remember this? Was there a bidding war about the time Air Florida was seeking a merger with WAL?

Back around 1980ish Western was involved in several merger attempts. I can't remember the exact order because it has been a long time ago    but Western was in merger attempts with the following airlines:

Wein
Air Florida
Continental (twice)

I can't remember a merger attempt with Alaska International Air but it's President and CEO Neil Bergt was once a top executive at Western, so there might have been a merger attempt with them as well.

Alaska International Air was a cargo carrier flying parts for the construction of the Alaska Pipeline. Later they started flying passengers. In 1984, they changed their name to Markair.


User currently onlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5786 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7086 times:

Quoting bohica (Reply 15):
Continental (twice)

I must have been into aviation even as a kid, because I remember my grandma mentioning that in the news the two carriers flipped a coin to see who's name would be first - Western Continental or Continental Western - but I don't remember the outcome of the toss. Of course, we know the outcome of the attempt to merge.

Quoting bohica (Reply 15):
In 1984, they changed their name to Markair.

And the rest is history.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2748 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6688 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 16):
I must have been into aviation even as a kid, because I remember my grandma mentioning that in the news the two carriers flipped a coin to see who's name would be first - Western Continental or Continental Western - but I don't remember the outcome of the toss. Of course, we know the outcome of the attempt to merge.

The coin toss came up Western-Continental. I wonder if UA and CO also did that behind the scenes?       The first WA/CO merger attempt was not approved by the DOJ. The second merger attempt was derailed when Texas Air came out of nowhere and bought Continental.


User currently offlineABQopsHP From United States of America, joined May 2006, 860 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6353 times:

Almost every time I was working ramp in SLC, my break was right in the middle of WA's 1130am bank. I would hop on a tug and sit down at the south end of the ramp, or over on the old cargo ramp at the far south end, and watch their DC10s take off. Oh how it would have been a joy to see 762s doing the same.
Good ole Western......"Its the only way to fly"....as Wally would say.
You guys that are good with graphics or know that website that has a/c that you paint as you wish.....should come up with a WA 762 or even a 763, in the bud lite scheme.
JD CRPXE



A line is evidence that other people exist.
User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2748 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6155 times:

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 18):
You guys that are good with graphics or know that website that has a/c that you paint as you wish.....should come up with a WA 762 or even a 763, in the bud lite scheme.

Nothing in the Bud Light scheme but a WA 763 would look something like this:


Aviation-Designs.Net:
Click here for bigger photo!
Design © Almaden
Template © Almaden



User currently offlineABQopsHP From United States of America, joined May 2006, 860 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5976 times:

Yeah thats the ticket bohica! That puts a smile on my face.
JD CRPXE



A line is evidence that other people exist.
User currently offlineN9801F From Samoa, joined Apr 2004, 346 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5972 times:

Quoting bohica (Reply 15):
I can't remember a merger attempt with Alaska International Air but it's President and CEO Neil Bergt was once a top executive at Western, so there might have been a merger attempt with them as well.

I think I dimly recall and attempted Western-MarkAir merger also, but don't take my word for it 100%.

MarkAir was an interesting case. They did a quick, odd expansion SEA-West Coast, and even had a tiny coast-to-coast "hub" in DEN, but ultimately the whole company flamed-out.

You guys on this thread are impressive; I've greatly enjoyed reading it.


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10638 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5668 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 16):
I must have been into aviation even as a kid, because I remember my grandma mentioning that in the news the two carriers flipped a coin to see who's name would be first - Western Continental or Continental Western - but I don't remember the outcome of the toss. Of course, we know the outcome of the attempt to merge.

Sometime in the 60's, DL and CO were also in merger talks, but with the sticking point being who would be the surviving carrier.......you had two strong personalities like Woolman and Six and neither was going to budge.

I also remember some talks going on, sometime before I retired in '05, of another merger attempt between DL and CO.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinesunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2058 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5623 times:

Western and American were set to merge in the early '70s. IIRC the DOJ or CAB shot it down. My Dad worked for WAL MX, MSP & LAX.

Ah the days when you said an airline name and you knew who was the CEO. DL Woolman, CO Bob Six, EA Borman, NC Carr, NA Maytag, AA C.R. Smith, etc.



Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently onlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5786 posts, RR: 28
Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5606 times:

Quoting bohica (Reply 17):
The coin toss came up Western-Continental

Ah, thanks!

Quoting N9801F (Reply 21):
MarkAir was an interesting case. They did a quick, odd expansion SEA-West Coast, and even had a tiny coast-to-coast "hub" in DEN, but ultimately the whole company flamed-out.

My step-nephew did Res for them in DEN...briefly.  
Quoting mayor (Reply 22):
I also remember some talks going on, sometime before I retired in '05, of another merger attempt between DL and CO.

I remember those rumors/talks vaguely as well. Of course, I always secretly liked the idea of DL+AA.   Don't think people would have gotten along, though.

I miss WA's DC10's with the lime green and bright yellow seats. Again, nothin' screams 70's....

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
25 cloudyapple : So the airlines on the plates are: United, American, Delta, TWA, Western, Alaska, PWA, Air Canada ANA, CP Air, Ansett, Dynasty, Britannia, ?, Avianca,
26 WA707atMSP : Braathens SAFE
27 bobnwa : You left out NW Don Nyrop, or am I just being parochial?
28 WesternA318 : Beat me to it! I remember seeing 727's and 737s all day long with a few DC-10's scattered here and there, it was awesome seeing that big, red W screa
29 sunking737 : Not that I remember.......yew. I remember a red/ blue checked pattern? SY had some green/ blue stripped carpet on the Aeromexico DC-10-15 they got, i
30 Post contains images Viscount724 : Both Braathens 762s with original and current operators. They only spent about 2 years with Braathens. The one now with Air Seychelles is on its 8th
31 Aeri28 : I also don't remember lime green and yellow seats. My father worked for WAL based in SFO in late 60s to 1977 then transferred to LAX in 1977 until he
32 PlanesNTrains : It was only one time for me, but it was an ANC departure in the late 70's or around '80. The plane arrived in ANC almost 3 hours late on a rainy afte
33 WA707atMSP : Western came very close to ordering A300s in 1976 to replace their 720s. Western would have been Airbus' first US customer. According to media report
34 CF-CPI : I have a brochure from 1973 featuring the intro for WA's DC-10s. Coach seating alternated blue, magenta and yelloworange in 8-abreast seating similar
35 WesternA318 : I remember hearing about this, the A300 order came about after Art Kelly resigned from Western's top spot and went to work for Airbus as the North Am
36 briboy : Nor was YYC » YXE, which I flew with them in the 762.
37 longhauler : The official press release when the aircraft were ordered, was that they were to replace the B707s, which at the time were being used on domestic and
38 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Well, it may very well be that I am not remembering it correctly. I've always remembered it the way I describe, but I was probably about 10-12 years
39 WALmsp : Greetings all, Frequent reader inspired by this thread becomes a first-time poster. I have uploaded two photos to the screeners related to the discus
40 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Orange and Blue.....Yellow and Green....Tomato....To-MAH-to....Let's call the whole thing off. Oh, and welcome! -Dave
41 WALmsp : Thanks, Dave, for the welcome. I was about nine years old at the time and I do remember the orange and blue. I never did get to go to Hawaii on a West
42 yyz717 : You would think PW would have waited for govt authority for these proposed routes prior to ordering the 762. Even if granted, I'm not sure PW would h
43 Post contains images kiwiandrew : Apologies for going OT , but interesting ( in a sad sort of way ) to see that of the 17 airlines whose logos were displayed in that photo 9 have eith
44 Aeri28 : National Airlines (the original one) had green/lime, and yellow seats. Is it possible the two airlines are being confused or even perhaps WA aquired a
45 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : I never flew National, so I know that isn't an option. I doubt it was a former National plane, but it could have been. I remember it being late '70's
46 Post contains links and images WALmsp : One photo is up on the sister site. A little blurry, but you'll get the idea. No pic. OK, try http://www.myaviation.net/search/pho...search.php?id=018
47 Post contains images CF-CPI : Even if blurry, it's a great historical pic. There are indeed three colors here: the orange, blue and the magenta or purple on the far side windows.
48 Post contains images WALmsp : I have a much clearer picture making its way through the screening queue right now, but in the meantime, please enjoy your blurry wallpaper. I have a
49 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : That's a great pic. It doesn't look like the seats I remember seeing, but alas there's a lot of things I don't remember anymore. -Dave
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